The gospel of Jesus Christ

[Woodenknight]

No one is lost ……Jesus took upon himself, every sin, of every person, who has ever lived, when he died on the cross. Not one sin of yours or mine was left out; He did this not to satisfy you or me but to satisfy God. And God is satisfied. The price for everyone’s sin has been paid in full. Therefore all will be saved.

Every Thing is known; Nothing Is determined…..God knew every thought that led to every action, of every person, before creation. And not one thought of anyone or anything was missed. No matter how many times a person may change their mind about any issue or matter, God knows the persons final choice. This choice was not determined before hand, only known God is God……God can and will change his mind about a matter, but he will not change who he is. The tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil was put in the garden. He did not leave it out, He is God. And God is the giver of choices. Even if the choices led man away from God to something else. The choice was given; the something else was created. He does not want robots.

The old creation…Evil...the something else that was created. What is Evil? It is everything God is not… God is a person… Infact three persons, because that is what is needed… evil is not a person… but is an… It… And its desire has not changed, since God warned Cain about it, through the generations, till this day. Its desire is to possess you, which is why it was said, “What I want to do, I can not do, but what I do not want to do, that is what I do, and who can free me from this bondage? Thank God for Jesus Christ”. So it has been clearly stated from the mouth of those before us, who understood our bondage clearly, and clearly understood that no man can free himself. Only God can free man. Only God can do Gods job. Only God can bind the strong man, and take its possessions and you are it possession. It has more of you than you do.
Perfect Imperfection……The time of trouble, for mothers, that were spoken of will happen, first the children will be taken out, and all who can make a choice will remain. This is the rapture, after the children are taken, it is continuous for the rest, but before something new can begin, the old must end. This is what the end time or tribulation period is, the old creation will cease to exist, and God will take its place. Just as no two people are the same, so will their choices and the time of rapture be different. That is why it was said that two are in a bed, through belief one is taken by disbelief the other remains, yet neither is lost. Jesus died for all. The great white thrown judgement…. Do not fear this time, remember that Jesus already died for your sin and God sent him for that very purpose. This is not a judgement of mans sin but a judgement of mans choices, you are no better or worse than anyone else, so don’t worry, from beginning to end, God is in control. Trust God.

[geralduk]

The gospel of JESUS Christ is "REPENT or you will ALL likewise perish"

ALL though God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should "come to a knowledge of the truth"
Yet is it not written of some that they "LOVE DARKNESS rather than the light"?
and therefor will not and do not "come to the light" and therefore to a "knolwdge of the truth"

The condemnation is that "they believe NOT the truth and Him whom God has sent"

and although God HAS dealt WITH SIN and has ALREADY judged it.
yet if a man believe not on Him whom God has sent and puts his faith in His OWN works even as Caine did rather than on GODS WORK of calvary.
Then though the wrath of God fell on Christ. For God condemned sin in the flesh.
if then we do NOT believe on Him who DIED for us and weas raised for our justyfication.
Then "the wrath of God abideth on them still"! seeign that they have not believed.

For if we reject and refuse Gods MERCY as by CHRIST then there is only JUDGMENT LEFT.

You cannot apply ONE or even TWO SCRIPTURES and give to them a UNIVERSAL APLICATION disregarding those scriptures that speak CONTRARY TO THEM.

ALLBEIT God "so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son(that it and ALL might be saved) Yet it is only the WHOSOVERS OUT OF THEM ALL who will and DO GET SAVED because they have BELEIEVED THE TRUTH.


The idea that God will and does save ALL ......REGARDLESS as to thier actions in RESPONSE to HIS WORD is wrong.

For if it does not matter wether a man beleive the gosple or not why then the need to repent?
and if you say that all men WILL come to a "[place of repntance" that too is contrary to scripture.
For not only does it record men who "could find no place of repentance" and therefore could NOT be saved.
But recordes men who NEVER SOUGHT IT.
and so likewise could NOT be saved.

and if it is sugested that a man need NOT REPENT to be saved.
Not only does that fly in the face of ALL scripture it denies God who knoweth the difference between light and darkness.
Fot when God brought LIGHT where there was DARKNESS.
HE SEPERATED the light from the darkness.
So likewise then will He at the last day.
and those who love darkness rather than light will go where they have loved but will not want to go "outer darkness"
and those who "have come to the light" will go where they have loved and desire to go.
To be with God who IS light.

[Woodenknight]

Thank you geralduk for your response, having read it, makes me all the more glad that God is in charge.......:)

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Woodenknight
No one is lost ……Jesus took upon himself, every sin, of every person, who has ever lived, when he died on the cross. Not one sin of yours or mine was left out; He did this not to satisfy you or me but to satisfy God. And God is satisfied. The price for everyone’s sin has been paid in full. Therefore all will be saved.If all were to be saved, why would Jesus have not set up His Kingdom, after being ressurrected? Why not just say, "Ollie ollie oxen free," and then let everyone come to Him? He is calling, and those whom He has chosen will respond. Those who do not will not be with Him in Glory.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If your name is in His Book, you will have eternal life. If not, then you'll be tormented forever, in flames of darkness.

[Woodenknight]

Thank you for your response Aimiel. Don't worry about a sinner out there, getting a free ride. we are all getting that free ride. or is it just a no fare ride because everyones fare has already been paid. And your right its his Book, and I'm glad he's the only person who gets to write in it.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Woodenknight
Thank you for your response Aimiel. Don't worry about a sinner out there, getting a free ride. we are all getting that free ride. or is it just a no fare ride because everyones fare has already been paid. And your right its his Book, and I'm glad he's the only person who gets to write in it. Is that your response? Here's the questions again, in case you forgot:

If all were to be saved, why would Jesus have not set up His Kingdom, after being ressurrected? Why not just say, "Ollie ollie oxen free," and then let everyone come to Him?

I agree, it is a 'free ride,' for us, though we were bought with A Price. It is not to all, though, according to my Bible, I'm not too sure about yours.

[Berean Todd]

Woodenknight you are partially right - all sins were paid for on Calvary. However, that is only half of the equation - for salvation we must accept that free gift by putting faith in Christ and His work on our behalf. To do otherwise is to say that I buy you a new car, tell you "It's over here at my house, all you have to do is come ask me for the keys and it's yours" and you never come and pick it up. Sure, it's paid for on your behalf, but if you don't come ask me for the keys then you will never take possesion of it.

Look at Christ's own words:

John 6:37, 40 "37 All the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Now that sure looks like both there is a requirement to be raised up and that there is a distinction He is making between those whom He will raise up to eternal life and those whom He will not. But you don't want to base a theology on one scripture, so let's look on, shall we?

John 6:53-54 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

So again, we are told, by Christ Himself, that we must be partakers in Him in order to receive the gift of eternal life that He has offered for us. But, you don't want to base your whole theology on just two scriptures do you? Well, let's read on then, shall we?

John 10:9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

So, now we are told that to be saved we must enter through Christ. But again, I mean I wouldn't want to base my theology on just three scriptures now, would I? [/sarcasm] Well, let us read on then, shall we?

Everyone knows John 3:16, but try reading on and looking at it in context next time ...

John 3:18 he who believes in Him is not judged; but he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not beliueved in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Need I go on? The Bible is clear, and the teachings are simple. The universalist position is a bankrupt one.

[apostolic]

Thank God for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He came to seek and to save we who are lost. He took upon himself our sins on Calvary's cross. But he ALSO arose and overcame death, so that we might live forever. One must not only look to the cross, but look to the empty tomb. He has ARISEN and is returning again for us. We have victory in Jesus.Thank God for his blessed mercy and gift to us.

[Aimiel]

Berean Todd and Apostolic, amen and amen!!!

[Woodenknight]

Not all the thoughts you think, are your own. Understand that the battleground for the Kingdom of God is within? We were clearly told that a new mind is needed for a new Kingdom, the old has to go. Now it is your right to throw out the old creations thoughts, if you so choose, but it is better if you let God do it, if you could free yourself from the old creation, than there would have been no need for Jesus to have come, so trust God and let him do his job. Jesus did not die for the old creation, or its possessions. He paid the price to redeem the part of you that the old creation does not possess. Understand the distinction, between bearing the cross daily (death) and entry to the kingdom by the water (cleansing) and the spirit, a two fold process, for each person, the death of the strong man’s possessions, the part of you the old creation does possess. And the cleansing of the part of you that Jesus died for, the part which the old creation does not possess. Don’t be fooled, understand the error of the one who cleaned his own house, and afterwards seven worse, took up residence with the man, only God can remove the old house and clean what remains. And God knowing mans choices and knowing that all of the house would succumb to the desires of the evil one, set aside one part, with the application of the blood of the lamb around the door and the binding of the strong man in chains. When it is time, there is a knock, and when the door is opened, a carpenter will enter, one qualified to safely remove you from the old house and bring you into a new one, one with many rooms, only the door is saved and cleaned from the old house, and you are the door. Now Jesus is the door to the kingdom of God. Understand the double edged sword, when you judge others and close the door to the kingdom for them, you close the door to yourself, what you bind on earth for others, is bound in heaven for you. You reap what you sow, if you see mercy, there will be mercy for you, if you see forgiveness, there will be forgiveness for you. Will some be held back because of their disbelief? Until they change. Than they will see themselves, as they are seen. The old creation and its possession’s are the same, and are already judged and set aside for destruction. It is not covered by the blood of the lamb. Jesus did not die for the old creation. Jesus died for you, but in this life the old creation speaks for you and others accept the words as yours, as you do with them, neither seeing a difference, a blindness of which man generally has no awareness of, let alone any hope of escape, though at times sensing that something is wrong, yet never fully understanding what that something is. Now freedom is offered, to those who believe God and trust him. For such, every day the old creation will become less and less, and God will take its place. This is called the time of small things, here a little, there a little, until Gods job is done. Then like the children, you will be taken out. So don’t worry, God clearly can see the difference, between you and it, and will not allow it, the old creation, to speak for you, the person, regarding the kingdom of God and eternal life. This choice is not offered to it, only to you, this applies not just to you, but to all men. God can see that in the end, given the choice, all will choose life.

[Duder]

Aimiel -
I agree, it is a 'free ride,' for us, though we were bought with A Price. It is not to all, though, according to my Bible, I'm not too sure about yours.

The word "free" is dreadfully abused today. The moment you see the word "free" on the internet it is a dead givaway that something will be expected of you in order to get the gift.

But I don't think God uses the concept "free" as a slick advertising gimick. I think he really means "free". Grace and salvation are gifts given with no strings attached. Otherwise they would not be gifts.

[Woodenknight]

God created evil. And when Cain approached God with his face down, God could see what Cain could not and told Cain of evils existence, telling Cain of an adversary that he could not see, and warning Cain that he was its desire, and he was told where evil was hiding, crouching at his door, waiting to inter his house the moment the door opened to it. God gave Cain hope, in saying that evil could be
mastered. How could Cain master evil? Cain didn’t even know it existed so how could he master something he could not even see? With Gods help, just as Cain could not see evil because it was greater than him, evil could not see God because God is greater than it, and that brings us to Cain’s choice. He now had to decide who he was going to listen to, if he listened to God he would be accepted and God would help him. If he chose to listen to evil, than God would hide his face from him, so that evil could not see God’s face and then impersonate God, and deceive man forever.
God was with Cain, God was willing to help Cain, all Cain had to do was to believe God and ask God for help, and God would have helped Cain with an adversary, which he could not deal with alone. Nothing has changed, if you understand that you need help, than ask Jesus for help, he died for you and is willing to help you.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Duder
...I don't think God uses the concept "free" as a slick advertising gimick. I think he really means "free". Grace and salvation are gifts given with no strings attached. Otherwise they would not be gifts. I have no problem with your definition of the word free. The Bible is clear in many ways which have to be 'muddied' in order to believe that every soul will be saved. Only those who believe upon The Lord and come into a relationship with Him will hear: "Well done, good and faithful servant." The others will hear: "Depart, I never knew you." The difference being that of eternal reward or eternal torment.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Woodenknight
God can see that in the end, given the choice, all will choose life. If that were the case, The Bible would read quite differently than it does, in many places. What, exactly, do you believe proves that everyone will be saved?

[Leo Volont]

Dear Woodenknight,

Good Morning.

Paul has convinced much of the Christian Community that Christ died so that we all could indulge in a huge guilt-free orgy of decadence. This belies all of Christ's Teachings. Certainly He wanted us to be Righteous.... and where Righteousness would be unattainable by Weakness, then Humility would suffice.

So... what was the Passion for -- why the Suffering on the Cross? Well... larger things were involved then individual acts of sin among the bi-pedal animals that were calling themselves 'humans'. There was the matter of the Spiritual Status of Human Beings. Were Human Beings mere animals? Or were Human Beings Spiritual Creatures. Let's examine this question -- Adam and Eve were Spiritual, but when they sinned they were exiled out of 'the presence of God' -- this translates into the notion that Adam and Eve were cast out of the Realm of Spirit into the lower material world -- Adam and Eve were not animals but were thrown into the body of animals, as their punishment and as their curse.

Christ did not die so that we all could have wild saturday nights and sell used cars at an exorbitant profit, and still go to Heaven -- an idea conceived by paul to appeal to a degenerate and greedy Greek Merchant Class -- Christ died to give Humanity a Spiritual Status -- to open up the Realm of the Spirit.

Notice that I say 'Realm of Spirit' and not Heaven. No! While we were still 'animals' -- before our redemption -- we had no high hopes or Heaven, and we had no dismal fears of Hell. We were only animals. Souls were mortal... or at best could be held in suspension in 'limbo', as the souls of the Patriarchs waited for their 'Redemption'. With Redemption came our Uplifted Spiritual Status -- we would become eligible for Heaven, but also liable for Hell.

In all spiritual matters it is a common truth that everything is both a Blessing and a Curse. Our Redemption would open up both the Gates of Heaven and of Hell. It appears that most of Humanity has been Redeemed only so they may spend their Spiritual Eternity in Hell. If they would adhere to the Higher Religious Doctrines of Righteousness, Penance, Humility and Love -- which are not the monopoly of any single one of the Higher Religions -- then Heaven may be attained.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

God created evil.

This is the Satanic Doctrine of Predestination. It argues that God is Omnipotent and created everything exactly as He prefers it. That God, in His Perfection, can only create a Perfect World, and so, therefore, Evil must have a place in God's Perfection... since it exists by His creation.

Notice, if you will, that this Doctrine depends not upon the Divine Revelations from the Patriarchs, Prophets and Saints, or from the Teachings of Christ. This Doctrine of Justified Evil is a derivative of Greek Philosophy -- particularly concerning Absolutes. God as Absolute This and Absolute That, is nothing but mathematics applied to Theology. It isn't True. Mathematics are only concepts. There are no Absolutes!

Go back to Divine Revelation and you find that God did not Create Everything instantaneously. We see that God found that His Creation continued to require His attention. Jewish Oral Tradition tells us that God was displeased with a Third of His Angels, for their Pride, and had them tossed out of Heaven. He found Adam and Eve's disobedience abhorrent and tossed them out of Paradise. What does this tell us? It tells us that God's Creation is still in Progress. If you see God as the Great Builder, well, He has not yet put down His tools. If you see God as the Great Painter, He still has His pallet and brushes in Hand. If God did indeed create evil, out of the necessity to create All Possible Things, then this has not stopped Him from being offended by it and working to have it eradicated.

But, it would make sense for Satanists to justify evil as just one part of God's Perfect Plan. This is what you are doing, no?

[Woodenknight]

What do you see in the book? Do you see that no one is lost? Or do you see salvation for yourself and destruction for those who are not like you? There are many points of view, in the world and in the book, there is God’s point of view and then there is everyone else’s. Consider the event when Jesus was tempted by Satan, it is said that Satan took Jesus to a high pinnacle. Whose point of view was that? And how do you tell the difference? It was Satan’s point of view, if you know and understand God, than you will know that nobody is going to take God any where, and if you doubt that, than you take God from New York to L.A. and if that sounds preposterous, than realize that it is no less preposterous to believe, that Satan could take God anywhere. So look at the event from Gods point of view. God knew the moment that Satan would think the thought, that he could take God and himself to the pinnacle, and at that moment God took both himself and Satan there. God did not correct Satan, and God allowed Satan’s point of view to be recorded in the book, So what was recorded was not a lie, it was true, but only from Satan’s point of view, but not from God’s point of view. And again was the apostle who recorded Satan’s point of view telling a lie? No, he only recorded what he understood at that point in time. So wake up and understand, if you want a point of view, ask God for his, it’s the only one that counts.

[Duder]

Woodenknight -

That is a fascinating perspective on predestination that had never occured to me (. . . and they say there's nothing new under the sun!).

I'm going to have to chew on this for a while and get back to ya.

Good one - keep those neurons firing!

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Aimiel

If all were to be saved, why would Jesus have not set up His Kingdom, after being ressurrected? Why not just say, "Ollie ollie oxen free," and then let everyone come to Him? He is calling, and those whom He has chosen will respond. Those who do not will not be with Him in Glory.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If your name is in His Book, you will have eternal life. If not, then you'll be tormented forever, in flames of darkness.

It is not whom God has chosen, it is who chooses God.

[Aimiel]

I beleive that God predistined and foreknew all of His lambs.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Yes, from our 'perspective,' we choose God. He chose us long before the earth was created, but yes, we choose Him. Our choosing is a result of His predestination, but yes, we choose Him.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Woodenknight
What do you see in the book?The Truth, as The Lord chose to represent It to us.Do you see that no one is lost?Anyone who sees that is cockeyed.Or do you see salvation for yourself and destruction for those who are not like you?More like salvation for those who The Lord recognizes, because they are in relationship with Him. Eternal conscious torment is also described, for all those to whom He says, "Depart from Me, I never knew you."There are many points of view, in the world and in the book, there is God’s point of view and then there is everyone else’s.Do you know God's 'point of view?'

[smaller]

Peace Woodenknight

You have seen well. Evil is a created thing by God. Evil is not the same as mankind. As EVIL desired to "have" Cain like the predator that it is, so it is with all for ALL have "present tense" sin. Even the "believer."

Evil has also deceived the majority of those chosen by God to bear His Light. They think they have "self atoned" for themselves by their choice and they thusly DAMN OTHERS, just as evil also does. In this damnation of others they show their "master" clearly.

NO one is damned but the evil ones who were created for destruction. These are NOT people. These "evil ones" are no different than a piece of exercise equipment that will fulfill it's purpose and be set aside forever.

These evil ones are a form of "covering" of the TEMPLE of GOD, mankind in this environment as the "cherub." (Ezekiel 28)

This "covering" is slated for destruction by fire from within The Temple. This fire is the one Jesus spoke of here and in other places in the N.T.:

Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

These evil ones were spoken of by Paul when he said that in the handling of THE LAW their presence was discovered as dwelling within him, but WERE NOT him. Paul knew that their dwelling place is the flesh of mankind, but that they are not the "same as" mankind.

These same ones were written of by John when he said that "sin is of the devil" and that "the devil has sinned from the beginning." He also wrote that the one who "sins" has not known Him, nor seen Him.

So we see carnal men who have been sold as slaves to the master. The Word as a SWORD separates MEN from the entities that SIN. It is these latter ones who will be destroyed, and THE CHILDREN OF GOD, who are ALL of MANKIND will GO FREE.

The evil ones are the "chaff" that the "wheat" grows upon. The tares that grow up with the wheat. The briars, the thorns. The "strangers" that have no names that Jesus does not know. The "rich men" who possess the bodies of mankind.

Jesus spoke to these things as if they were VISIBLE but they are NOT visible to one who is blinded by them. Jesus cast them out. He SEPARATED mankind from SINS in the flesh in the physical when He walked this earth. This was a precedent to the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of that MAN OF SIN that is yet to come on God's DAY OF WRATH.

To see this is to understand a GREAT PORTION of the Word of God and to be able to LIVE IN GOD'S LOVE for all people.

Welcome to the kindling of HIS FIRE Woodenknight. In God's Love all things are revealed to us who are called by Him.

enjoy!

smaller

[Uriyah]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

No one is lost ……Jesus took upon himself, every sin, of every person, who has ever lived, when he died on the cross. Not one sin of yours or mine was left out; He did this not to satisfy you or me but to satisfy God. And God is satisfied. The price for everyone’s sin has been paid in full. Therefore all will be saved.

This is in clear contradiction to what it says concerning those who sin unto death. What Jesus did on the stake/cross is useless without one repenting. And even when one repents, if they still live a sinful life, it is still useless to them. The truth is not easy on the sinners, the road is hard to life.

[Woodenknight]

The truth will set you free, but only if you believe the truth, and you may not want to. The truth may be at odds with what you believe or may not agree with your religion or your traditions or doctrines. God told Moses to help the people who were bitten buy poisonous snakes, Moses was to fashion a bronze serpent and put it on a pole, and told the people that to live they had to look up at the serpent on the pole, and they would not die from the poison. Those who believed God looked and lived but those that didn’t believe God didn’t look and died. Looking up at a serpent on a pole doesn’t seem like much of a cure for snake bite, but then in this case it depended on who said to look, and why. God said that the truth will set you free, was said so that man could understand that he is held in bondage by a lie, and the lie and the venom are the same, if the people believed God than the people would not die a premature physical death. The action of the people looking up at the serpent on the pole didn’t cure them that just showed that those who looked believed God, and the cure for the people once they looked was the action of God, and God only acted for those that believed what he said. And God said to look up at the serpent on the pole, look at the cause of your trouble. And you must see and understand what their trouble was. Or you will not escape physical death either just as the people at that time died physically so will you. So in hearing the truth, and choosing to believe the truth, than God who is the truth, saved the people from physical death. As it was then so it is now. The serpent on the pole signified the reason for physical death, Jesus death on the cross signifies the reason for spiritual life. Believing in Jesus does not free a person from believing the lies of the serpent afterward, that is a choice, and the old creation does not want you to know that you have that choice, and you think that the old creation is not hiding this fact from man and deceiving man today than consider this. The average life of a person on the earth today is 63 years, the average may be higher when a person lives in a developed country, but that is of little consideration as it does not matter weather you are a Christian or Muslim, Buddhist or atheist, in north America the life span is pretty much the same, far short of the 120years that man could live, one religion over another makes little difference in the matter. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can not be used as a personal religion to exclude others. You Christians can read the book in any manner you choose, but the fact is, there is no special favour for you. The proof is in the fact, you fall in the wilderness far short of your 120 years, just like the men that you exclude and condemn. It is one thing to believe in Jesus, it is another matter to stop listening to the lie afterward, you do have a choice

[Lovejoy]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

The truth will set you free, but only if you believe the truth, and you may not want to. The truth may be at odds with what you believe or may not agree with your religion or your traditions or doctrines. God told Moses to help the people who were bitten buy poisonous snakes, Moses was to fashion a bronze serpent and put it on a pole, and told the people that to live they had to look up at the serpent on the pole, and they would not die from the poison. Those who believed God looked and lived but those that didn’t believe God didn’t look and died. Looking up at a serpent on a pole doesn’t seem like much of a cure for snake bite, but then in this case it depended on who said to look, and why. God said that the truth will set you free, was said so that man could understand that he is held in bondage by a lie, and the lie and the venom are the same, if the people believed God than the people would not die a premature physical death. The action of the people looking up at the serpent on the pole didn’t cure them that just showed that those who looked believed God, and the cure for the people once they looked was the action of God, and God only acted for those that believed what he said. And God said to look up at the serpent on the pole, look at the cause of your trouble. And you must see and understand what their trouble was. Or you will not escape physical death either just as the people at that time died physically so will you. So in hearing the truth, and choosing to believe the truth, than God who is the truth, saved the people from physical death. As it was then so it is now. The serpent on the pole signified the reason for physical death, Jesus death on the cross signifies the reason for spiritual life. Believing in Jesus does not free a person from believing the lies of the serpent afterward, that is a choice, and the old creation does not want you to know that you have that choice, and you think that the old creation is not hiding this fact from man and deceiving man today than consider this. The average life of a person on the earth today is 63 years, the average may be higher when a person lives in a developed country, but that is of little consideration as it does not matter weather you are a Christian or Muslim, Buddhist or atheist, in north America the life span is pretty much the same, far short of the 120years that man could live, one religion over another makes little difference in the matter. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can not be used as a personal religion to exclude others. You Christians can read the book in any manner you choose, but the fact is, there is no special favour for you. The proof is in the fact, you fall in the wilderness far short of your 120 years, just like the men that you exclude and condemn. It is one thing to believe in Jesus, it is another matter to stop listening to the lie afterward, you do have a choice

I am not sure what you are getting at. The Serpent on the pole is an elusive concept, it was actually destroyed by later kings because people had started to worship it. I am not sure what it represented.

Falling in the wilderness? Christ never promised us long life on the earth. I don't particularly want one.

What lie am I listening to, as a Christian? I hear many lies, your words may be among them. How do I tell the difference?

[billwald]

None are lost but some may opt out. Why would Hitler or Nero want to spend eternity with Christ? It would be hell for them.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

No one is lost ……Jesus took upon himself, every sin, of every person, who has ever lived, when he died on the cross.

This is Pauline Doctrine. It forgives the Criminals but does nothing for the Victims of sin.

Christ was rather the Teacher of the Beatitudes. Read Chapter 5 of Mathew and you will see that Christ has far less sympathy for the sinner then He has for the Sinned Against.

[Aimiel]

If no one were lost then what 'good news' were the disciples told to go and share? The fact that everyone is saved would either be apparent or be of no consequence, since they would go to heaven, no matter what. The Gospel, that there is salvation from your sin, and an entrance made into Heaven, through Jesus, needs to be shared, simply because the offer of eternal life, through having faith in Jesus, that He is The Son of God, is the best news there could possibly be. If we refuse The Lord's offer of salvation, then we can't get into Heaven.

[philosophizer]

If Christ's sacrifice pays for everyone, repentant or not, then why did He also speak of cutting down trees and throwing them in a fire?

[Aimiel]

Also, why did He warn more strongly about hell than anything else? Cutting off your hand or poking out your eye being preferable to going to hell, for instance.

[billwald]

'The gospel of JESUS Christ is "REPENT or you will ALL likewise perish" '

EXACTLY! Repent of one's sins, not one's knowledge and understanding of the New Testamant.

[billwald]

"If your name is in His Book, you will have eternal life. "

OK, but there is no test for the existance of this condition - having one's name wrotten. God does not give us access to the book.

[Aimiel]

There's only one way to know that your name is written in His Book of Life, and that is to come to know The One that wrote it.

[Woodenknight]

God told man of a watchman who stood on the wall, looking outward watching for the enemy, ready to sound the alarm. Then we are told a very interesting think, we were told that the watchman was instructed not just to look outside the walls for the enemy but inside as well. If a person is standing on a wall looking outward to watch for an enemy than his back is to the inside of the wall where there should be safety, but God has made a point, that you are not safe looking outside the wall for the enemy, you must look inside as well, the watchman is in a difficult position as the enemy can approach him without being seen from inside or outside the wall. God has made another interesting point with this story, he used the word watchman, to understand what a watchman is, we need to look at what he isn’t. God didn’t call this person a solder or warrior, as these words would imply that this person was to engage the enemy in battle. He used the word watchman, and a watchman is nothing more than a person who watches for the enemy and recognises the enemy and sounds the alarm. The watchman does not defend himself by fighting with the enemy, his defence is in seeing and recognising the enemy. God likes to use the physical world to discus spiritual matters. And the watchman story is clearly one of those, God made that point by using the terms inward and outward, outward being the physical world, inward the spiritual world. Anything that is not physical is spiritual, a thought is of the spiritual world, that thought can be brought into the physical world by speaking it. The watchman is a singular term, so this story is a story about one person’s experience, but because a watchman sound’s the alarm for others, than the instruction is for all. And finally the watchman was instructed about the nature of the enemy, because he thought that the enemy was physical and outside the wall, because he only looked at the things in the world and the people of the world, and thought that is where evil hid, and people still do that to this day, but God informed the watchman that the enemy was not physical but spiritual, and that he had to look within himself to see the enemy, not just in the things that are outwardly or physical. We were told these things by those that understood them, that our battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual things in spiritual places, the reference to the cleaning of the inside of the cup not just the outside also spoke of this matter. Hypocrisy and conceit and lies, spiritual fruit from a spiritual tree, lying fruit from the author of lies, the old creation. The truth is not in it as it is everything that God is not. And this tree and its possession will be burnt up completely and God will take its place, the part of you that still lives will be cut off this dead tree and will be grafted to a living tree, the tree of life.

[Lovejoy]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

God told man of a watchman who stood on the wall, looking outward watching for the enemy, ready to sound the alarm. Then we are told a very interesting think, we were told that the watchman was instructed not just to look outside the walls for the enemy but inside as well. If a person is standing on a wall looking outward to watch for an enemy than his back is to the inside of the wall where there should be safety, but God has made a point, that you are not safe looking outside the wall for the enemy, you must look inside as well, the watchman is in a difficult position as the enemy can approach him without being seen from inside or outside the wall. God has made another interesting point with this story, he used the word watchman, to understand what a watchman is, we need to look at what he isn’t. God didn’t call this person a solder or warrior, as these words would imply that this person was to engage the enemy in battle. He used the word watchman, and a watchman is nothing more than a person who watches for the enemy and recognises the enemy and sounds the alarm. The watchman does not defend himself by fighting with the enemy, his defence is in seeing and recognising the enemy. God likes to use the physical world to discus spiritual matters. And the watchman story is clearly one of those, God made that point by using the terms inward and outward, outward being the physical world, inward the spiritual world. Anything that is not physical is spiritual, a thought is of the spiritual world, that thought can be brought into the physical world by speaking it. The watchman is a singular term, so this story is a story about one person’s experience, but because a watchman sound’s the alarm for others, than the instruction is for all. And finally the watchman was instructed about the nature of the enemy, because he thought that the enemy was physical and outside the wall, because he only looked at the things in the world and the people of the world, and thought that is where evil hid, and people still do that to this day, but God informed the watchman that the enemy was not physical but spiritual, and that he had to look within himself to see the enemy, not just in the things that are outwardly or physical. We were told these things by those that understood them, that our battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual things in spiritual places, the reference to the cleaning of the inside of the cup not just the outside also spoke of this matter. Hypocrisy and conceit and lies, spiritual fruit from a spiritual tree, lying fruit from the author of lies, the old creation. The truth is not in it as it is everything that God is not. And this tree and its possession will be burnt up completely and God will take its place, the part of you that still lives will be cut off this dead tree and will be grafted to a living tree, the tree of life.

I think I see some message in there...

Certainly, I can follow the trend in your post, but would you mind (please) breaking it down in paragraphs with clear subjects? As it is, I don't think I am going to be too terribly edified by it. Please?

[SteveFDL]

Originally posted by Woodenknight

No one is lost ……Jesus took upon himself, every sin, of every person, who has ever lived, when he died on the cross. Not one sin of yours or mine was left out; He did this not to satisfy you or me but to satisfy God. And God is satisfied. The price for everyone’s sin has been paid in full. Therefore all will be saved.

I would say:

Show me 2 Christians that agree on salvation, from lordship theology, once-saved-always-saved, Catholicism, speaking in tongues as proof, snake handling, saved by grace, et al, and I will show you one Christian who is misinterpreting the other.

:juggle:

[Aimiel]

The weapons that we carry are not just spiritual, they are real. We are to take them up and wear them daily, since we are in the greatest battle there has ever been: the battle for men's souls. The enemy knows that his time is short. We need to take up our armor, and follow The Lord's Battle Plan for His Victory is assured. We are His Soldiers, and the battle that we engage in is far more real than most people imagine. We are not only to fight, but to lead others into battle. We are to show the way to the lost. We are to give His Armor to them that are naked, and defeated. Yes, we are told to watch, but we are also told to destroy the works of the devil. We need to be about Our Father's Business, that of seeking and saving that which was lost.

[Woodenknight]

Understand that you are being told about spiritual things and not religious things, there is good reason for this, God is spiritual not religious. Let’s repeat that, God is a spiritual person not a religious person. In the religious world which way the watchman stands has little relevance but spiritually this is important because only than you can see things as they are seen. We have been dealing with things that the religious world for the most part has ignored. Cain’s face the serpent on the pole and the watchman on the wall, through religious eyes they don’t connect but let’s be clear about this, they are connected and they all speak about one thing, direction. Is direction important? God would not have spoken of this if it wasn’t. And let’s be absolutely clear about this, he thought that the understanding of these things was so important that he summed them all up in the parable of the sower, and then repeated it three times.
Through your words this one has been called to give an accounting of what this one see’s,
Though not all the words remain as some have been removed, an accounting will be given, it is obvious things that you do not understand the connection between the parable, Cain’s face the serpent on the pole and the watchman, because if you did than you would see the connection between Jesus and salvation for all. There are other points to be made before we can go to the parable and in time they will be made. The method of the accounting has been chosen to clearly point out one thing, blindness. Who’s blindness? You decide.

[billwald]

>The weapons that we carry are not just spiritual, they are real.

Name two weapons you carry.

[Aimiel]

Sword: The Sword of The Spirit, The Word of God. It is quick and powerful, and sharper than any double-edged sword; able to discern between soul and spirit. It is This Word which will slay the enemies of The Lord, and cause blood to rise to the horses bridles, in the valley of Meggiddo, on The Day of The Lord.

Underwear: The Truth. We walk in truth, speaking the truth, about The Truth. Jesus is The Truth, and we share Him with others, which gives them eternal life, when they believe in Him.

Faith, our shield. The shield of our faith in God is able to stop every single thing that the enemy is trying to do against us, which is not imaginary, but real. The enemy would kill every single man, woman and child on this earth, if he were allowed to. His first targets are those who carry The Sword of The Word of God.

These things are real, but 'enlightened' people of today have explanations which they have accepted, that negate The Truth of The Word of God, and so they can't see or understand these things. They are foolishness to them.

[billwald]

>Underwear: The Truth.

Mormon underwear??????

Define "real."

You can't tell the difference between reality and figures of speach?

I've head so many (idiotic) sermons on this passage that I (hate) it.

[Woodenknight]

The watchman can not stand on the wall facing inside or out as the enemy can then approach him without being seen, to protect himself the watchman must turn either to his left or right and face the length of the wall but which way does he turn, he turns to his left. How do we know this, because Jesus said that is the way to stand when he said, when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Since the right hand refers to dealing with people in the world than your right side is to the world and knowing is not a physical act but a spiritual one, than your left side is to the inside of the wall and the spiritual world. That is the position in which the Watchman must stand on the wall. What is the wall? The wall is the land that man possesses that is in both the spiritual and physical world. And at one time man had all of the same functions in both worlds, but no longer. How wide is the wall, as wide as you. How do we know this? God told the watchman that the enemy treads freely inside and outside the wall but read carefully, not on the wall. as it does not possess that land yet, but it is trying to, And it walks freely on the land that it possesses both inside and out side the wall but the land that it does not possess is the wall and it can not trod there, so then the wall is the part of you that the old creation does not possess.
How did the enemy get inside the wall, God already told us that, with the warning to Cain, that the old creation is crouching at the door of the wall and its desire is to possess him, Its desire was to enter through the door and possess the land inside or in simple terms to possess the person’s possessions. What possessions are we talking about, sight and sound for example, that is why Jesus said in seeing they will not see and in hearing they will not hear. He spoke of our two fold nature, to function in two worlds. We still see somewhat physically but our spiritual eyes have as he said been closed and the same with hearing. Just as a thief who through deception steals your watch has full use of the item afterwards as long as it is in the thief’s possession so it is with the old creation and its possessions, through deception it has our spiritual sight and hearing and as a result you only see and hear what it wants you to see and hear. Did Cain open the door to let the old creation in? Yes, he killed his brother didn’t he, by listening to the old creation his face turned down, and he blamed his brother for his problems, he listened to the old creation’s lie, he blamed his brother and his brother was not to blame the old creation was to blame and is the blamer. It will never tell man that, it does not even want man to remember that it exists. The old creation had at that point not entered the door. But when he listened to the old creation after God warned him of what was going on, the old creation then was able to enter through the door to the inside of the wall and Cain followed through with its desire and murdered his brother.
So you see one of the enemy’s methods, blame and when you blame another of something, if you look inside and follow the path of the blame it will lead from one thought to another but in the end it always leads to the old creation. And if another person blame’s you for something and that person steps on your toes in some manner, realize that the old creation will do to others as it does you, it is the old creation’s blame in another person’s mind that justifies to that person that to step on your toes in return is ok, just as it justified the stepping on Abel’s toes by Cain in Cain’s mind.
So there you have it, if the attack of blame, by the enemy, comes from the world through another person it comes from outside the wall. But if the blame comes from within your mind than the attack comes from inside of the wall and is not physical when it comes, but spiritual. In both cases the blame is of the old creation.
Forgiveness on the other hand is not of the old creation but is of God. If forgiveness is not in you than you are not of God, but if blame is all you see than you are of the old creation, and it has turned your face to the left, to see what it wants you to see.
Understand that if you find these things to be strange, remember that the old creation wants you to deal with God from a religious point of view, but God is Spirit and he wants you to deal with him in spirit and in truth, from a spiritual point of view. His point of view, and that is why the watchman stands as he does, he stands as God see’s him.

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Aimiel
Underwear: The Truth.


Aimiel, if you've got holy underwear, maybe you should invest in some new pairs. :drum: :D

[Aimiel]

Did you mean to imply that having our loins girt about with the truth might leave us with holey undergarments? The Holiness of The Lord has no holes, but is wholy holy.

Holy punchline, Batman, its really raining puns around here.

[Woodenknight]

(: