Exclusively MORMON thread

[King David]

This thread is exclusively for those who are Mormons, i.e., those who believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that he translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and that he died as a martyr.

One may be 'LDS', 'RLDS' (or now, 'Community of Christ'), as well as even any 'sect' of 'Mormonism', including any of a number of what 'mainstream LDS' may consider apostate, those of any polygamist groups.

Give your interests regarding 'Mormonism' (but, again, ONLY if you truly consider yourself to be 'Mormon' according to the definition given in the first paragraph above.


Welcome,


--KING DAVID

[Tye Porter]

:darwinsm:
I saw the title of this post on the Active Page and thought it read, "Exclusively Moron Thread". :chuckle:

[rajuncajun]

:kookoo:

[SOTK]

I'm willing to not post in this thread, KD. However, you should know that moderators or the administrator are probably the only ones who can really start a forum of this nature and then enforce it. Also, I imagine this thread will be pretty boring. Other than you and Mustard Seed, I don't believe there are many mormons here. What are you gonna do, argue with yourself?

[rajuncajun]

Originally posted by King David

This thread is exclusively for those who are Mormons, i.e., those who believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that he translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and that he died as a martyr.

One may be 'LDS', 'RLDS' (or now, 'Community of Christ'), as well as even any 'sect' of 'Mormonism', including any of a number of what 'mainstream LDS' may consider apostate, those of any polygamist groups.

Give your interests regarding 'Mormonism' (but, again, ONLY if you truly consider yourself to be 'Mormon' according to the definition given in the first paragraph above.


Welcome,


--KING DAVID OKAY WHATEVER!:kookoo:

[Berean Todd]

Originally posted by Tye Porter


:darwinsm:
I saw the title of this post on the Active Page and thought it read, "Exclusively Moron Thread". :chuckle:

That probably should be the title of it ... you wouldn't have rights to edit posts and thread titles would you? :chuckle:

[King David]

Your mocking of me and this thread is part of the reason, (though not the only), why I started it. I wanted you to see how your 'Exclusively Christian' thread comes across to me as being so stupidly ridiculous. I've noticed how boring it has become (no one has apparently posted since rules that would ostensibly allow the likes of me to post in it). So, there, no one argues or discusses with no one. Its like the U.S, where the average, (presumably mostly 'traditional Christian') white woman bears 1.71 children per lifetime. And, in 'Christian' Europe, the rates are far, far lower. At the current rate, Christianity won't last too long -- at least not as we know it. Western Civilization is dying, and you guys are arguing about stuff that won't matter in a century or two, (or far less) at present depopulating rates.

My father-in-law, the oldest boy in a family of nine children of parents that immigrated from Denmark in the early 1900's. He has more posterity than ALL of his Lutheran siblings combined. (Yes, my father-in-law is a convert to 'Mormonism'). He has 12 children, 61 grandchildren (soon 62), and 19 (soon 20) great-grand children.


--KING DAVID

[rajuncajun]

Originally posted by King David

Your mocking of me and this thread is part of the reason, (though not the only), why I started it. I wanted you to see how your 'Exclusively Christian' thread comes across to me as being so stupidly ridiculous. I've noticed how boring it has become (no one has apparently posted since rules that would ostensibly allow the likes of me to post in it). So, there, no one argues or discusses with no one. Its like the U.S, where the average, (presumably mostly 'traditional Christian') white woman bears 1.71 children per lifetime. And, in 'Christian' Europe, the rates are far, far lower. At the current rate, Christianity won't last too long -- at least not as we know it. Western Civilization is dying, and you guys are arguing about stuff that won't matter in a century or two, (or far less) at present depopulating rates.

My father-in-law, the oldest boy in a family of nine children of parents that immigrated from Denmark in the early 1900's. He has more posterity than ALL of his Lutheran siblings combined. (Yes, my father-in-law is a convert to 'Mormonism'). He has 12 children, 61 grandchildren (soon 62), and 19 (soon 20) great-grand children.


--KING DAVID christianity will last till Jesus returns for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[King David]

Originally posted by kcajunmiller

christianity will last till Jesus returns for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D


I am Christian. Will your "race" last until Christ comes? Depending how long that actually is, it may not -- not at rates of 1 to 1.7 children per lifetime. That doesn't even replace the population.


--KING DAVID

[rajuncajun]

nobody said anything about race,i also have had 4 kids thank you.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by King David

This thread is exclusively for those who are Mormons, i.e., those who believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that he translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and that he died as a martyr.

One may be 'LDS', 'RLDS' (or now, 'Community of Christ'), as well as even any 'sect' of 'Mormonism', including any of a number of what 'mainstream LDS' may consider apostate, those of any polygamist groups.

Give your interests regarding 'Mormonism' (but, again, ONLY if you truly consider yourself to be 'Mormon' according to the definition given in the first paragraph above.


Welcome,


--KING DAVID

Of course you mean everyone who wants to get a decent job in Utah -- if it were not for that motivation, do you really think there would be anybody pretending to believe that fiction?

A Religion without Mysticism or Miracles. I think that anybody who says they believe that stuff is definitely earning their pay -- that executive position in some Salt Lake City Corporation which represents the Promise of their Religion. They earn each cent just like lawyers earn money by lying, or prostitutes by doing what they do. But I wouldn't trade with them.

As for the Mormon's who are 'sincere'. Duh? Is there anything you DON'T believe?

[SOTK]

Originally posted by King David

Your mocking of me and this thread is part of the reason, (though not the only), why I started it. I wanted you to see how your 'Exclusively Christian' thread comes across to me as being so stupidly ridiculous. I've noticed how boring it has become (no one has apparently posted since rules that would ostensibly allow the likes of me to post in it). So, there, no one argues or discusses with no one. Its like the U.S, where the average, (presumably mostly 'traditional Christian') white woman bears 1.71 children per lifetime. And, in 'Christian' Europe, the rates are far, far lower. At the current rate, Christianity won't last too long -- at least not as we know it. Western Civilization is dying, and you guys are arguing about stuff that won't matter in a century or two, (or far less) at present depopulating rates.

My father-in-law, the oldest boy in a family of nine children of parents that immigrated from Denmark in the early 1900's. He has more posterity than ALL of his Lutheran siblings combined. (Yes, my father-in-law is a convert to 'Mormonism'). He has 12 children, 61 grandchildren (soon 62), and 19 (soon 20) great-grand children.


--KING DAVID

Get over it! I can't believe you are still crying like a :baby: over the Exclusively Christian Theology forum thing? I'm tired of seeing your posts about this. Either let it go or leave. I seriously doubt that it's gonna change. You are never gonna convince any Christian here that mormonism is Christianity! It is not. Period!

[Tye Porter]

:taoist:

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by SOTK4ever

Get over it! I can't believe you are still crying like a :baby: over the Exclusively Christian Theology forum thing? I'm tired of seeing your posts about this. Either let it go or leave. I seriously doubt that it's gonna change. You are never gonna convince any Christian here that mormonism is Christianity! It is not. Period!

Yeah, but in Salt Lake City he'll get a career that pays in 6 figures by the time he's 40, and you'd be lucky to get a job washing dishes unless you pretend to only speak Spanish (their 'slaves' are allowed to be Catholic).

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Yeah, but in Salt Lake City he'll get a career that pays in 6 figures by the time he's 40, and you'd be lucky to get a job washing dishes unless you pretend to only speak Spanish (their 'slaves' are allowed to be Catholic).
Yeah, but when he dies he'll go to hell and when SOTK passes on, he's going to spend Eternity Praising Jesus!

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Yeah, but when he dies he'll go to hell and when SOTK passes on, he's going to spend Eternity Praising Jesus!

Oh! Well, if hating Mormons is all it takes to get into Heaven, then more people will make it then I ever hoped to imagine.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Oh! Well, if hating Mormons is all it takes to get into Heaven, then more people will make it then I ever hoped to imagine.
Christians do not hate mormons.
You know better than that.
We do hate the lies and false religions of the mormons and the catholics, but we don't hate the mormons and the catholics.
You know better than that.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Christians do not hate mormons.
You know better than that.
We do hate the lies and false religions of the mormons and the catholics, but we don't hate the mormons and the catholics.
You know better than that.


:thumb:

I despise mormons or any other cult which would decieve unbelievers by telling them they are Christian. It's deception pure and simple!

[SOTK]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Yeah, but when he dies he'll go to hell and when SOTK passes on, he's going to spend Eternity Praising Jesus!

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana:

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Christians do not hate mormons.
You know better than that.
We do hate the lies and false religions of the mormons and the catholics, but we don't hate the mormons and the catholics.
You know better than that.


It is not 'ideas' God will toss into Hell. It will be Souls. Protestant Souls.

[1John4:1]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

It is not 'ideas' God will toss into Hell. It will be Souls. Protestant Souls.

I beg to differ, Leo.
Do you really think we are so incompatible?
I started a new thread on this issue:

Catholicism Vs. Protestantism... Reformation Revisited (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12133)

[Granite]

Well this is great. A thread for gods-in-training. Can you imagine universes created and ruled by these white bread polygamists?

In the meantime, to our LDS friends: Don't go crazy, guys! Don't get carried away with having your own exclusive thread. I wouldn't want you going off the deep end and getting into hard drinks, like Coke or coffee...

[Chileice]

Originally posted by King David

Your mocking of me and this thread is part of the reason, (though not the only), why I started it. I wanted you to see how your 'Exclusively Christian' thread comes across to me as being so stupidly ridiculous. I've noticed how boring it has become (no one has apparently posted since rules that would ostensibly allow the likes of me to post in it). So, there, no one argues or discusses with no one. Its like the U.S, where the average, (presumably mostly 'traditional Christian') white woman bears 1.71 children per lifetime. And, in 'Christian' Europe, the rates are far, far lower. At the current rate, Christianity won't last too long -- at least not as we know it. Western Civilization is dying, and you guys are arguing about stuff that won't matter in a century or two, (or far less) at present depopulating rates.

My father-in-law, the oldest boy in a family of nine children of parents that immigrated from Denmark in the early 1900's. He has more posterity than ALL of his Lutheran siblings combined. (Yes, my father-in-law is a convert to 'Mormonism'). He has 12 children, 61 grandchildren (soon 62), and 19 (soon 20) great-grand children.


--KING DAVID

GOOO Polygamy!! Wow, you guys should be proud of yourselves. Really pumping those Spirit babies out. KD, this is the most absurd thing I've seen yet. Chrisitianity, unlike Mormonism, does not depend on biological growth. Mormonism is like Islam. Once you are born into a closed system like that, escape is virtually impossible. I mean it IS a good method to ensure that there will be Mormons in 2150... but what is the point? You get a bunch of Jack Mormons who despise the church but are afraid of going anywhere else for fear of being cut off. You get a bunch of unhappy people with a marginal relationship to a church and NO relationship with Christ.

Each person must make their own decision. And while you are having babies, I will be trying to share Christ's message with those born into a world of shortage because their parents have 8 or 10 kids. Sorry to butt in on your thread, but I guess it's what you wanted. Have fun having kids. Hope they have fun being trapped in a mormon "paradise".

[King David]

Originally posted by Chileice

GOOO Polygamy!! Wow, you guys should be proud of yourselves. Really pumping those Spirit babies out. KD, this is the most absurd thing I've seen yet. Chrisitianity, unlike Mormonism, does not depend on biological growth. Mormonism is like Islam. Once you are born into a closed system like that, escape is virtually impossible. I mean it IS a good method to ensure that there will be Mormons in 2150... but what is the point? You get a bunch of Jack Mormons who despise the church but are afraid of going anywhere else for fear of being cut off. You get a bunch of unhappy people with a marginal relationship to a church and NO relationship with Christ.

Each person must make their own decision. And while you are having babies, I will be trying to share Christ's message with those born into a world of shortage because their parents have 8 or 10 kids. Sorry to butt in on your thread, but I guess it's what you wanted. Have fun having kids. Hope they have fun being trapped in a mormon "paradise".

Hey folks, its "Joni "Chileice" Mitchell" singing--

BIG YELLOW TAXI

(Chorus)Trapped in paradise, in the LDS church parking lot
(strum, strum, strum, strum)
(Chorus)With a polygamous-sized family, and a nursery that's the real hottttt-spot,
(strum, strum, strum)
(Solo high soprano voice)Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know how many they've got, til they're gone
(Chorus)Trapped in paradise, in the LDS church parking lot

Shooooh, bop bop bop, bop
Shooooh, bop bop bop, bop....

(etc.)


I didn't realize that YOU are a Jack Mormon too! Wow, we have a couple of those here, it seems.

I'm sorry you don't have trust in a God that plans ahead-- and have faith to try to keep his commandments, despite the "wisdom of the world"--

...The earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.

18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 104:17 - 18)

I agree with Jesus when he declared--

13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them (into the world?).

14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come....and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child (or, for that matter, receive "little children" themselves--even babies), he shall not (himself or herself) enter therein.

16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them (for of such are indeed, the kingdom of heaven -- and how can we have more of heaven but to welcome young children, even babies into our homes and our families).

(New Testament | Mark 10:13 - 16)

I am sorry to see that you believe in the old sectarian and Malthusian myth, like some Ebenezer Scrooge, or one of many college professors I had who tried to teach the same godless secular doctrine to me and my fellow Mormons (and, unfortunately, have succeeded with far too many, to too great a degree)!

God knew all things BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. He knew how many children would come (or could come), how much land, food, resources, even parents there would be. It is not the high cost of living that is so difficult, my friend to afford, as it is rather the cost of HIGH LIVING!!! I will put any and all of my many children in comparison to your few, whether individually, or as a group. I feel comfortable they will stack up favorably against yours in most any given area, including receiving due love, instruction, in behavior, in attitude, etc. They are not only CHEAPER by the dozen, they're BETTER by the dozen. Quantity AND Quality can and do go hand in hand! I say this not pridefully, but as a matter of experience in raising them (and I've grown up much more with more of them to help raise me, too)!


--KING DAVID

"...The wisdom of their wise men shall perish..."

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:14)

[King David]

Originally posted by granite1010

Well this is great. A thread for gods-in-training. Can you imagine universes created and ruled by these white bread polygamists?

In the meantime, to our LDS friends: Don't go crazy, guys! Don't get carried away with having your own exclusive thread. I wouldn't want you going off the deep end and getting into hard drinks, like Coke or coffee...

Or MOUNTAIN DEW!!!


--KING DAVID

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by King David

Or MOUNTAIN DEW!!!


--KING DAVID

Didn't you know that Mountain Dew has caffeine in it, King David?

From the Mountain Dew website (http://mountaindew.com/about_dew/product_info/index.php)



MOUNTAIN DEW
Doing the "Dew" is like no other soft drink experience because of its daring, high-energy, high-intensity, active, extreme citrus taste.

Regular (8 fl. oz)
Contains: Carbonated water, high fructose corn syrup and/or sugar, concentrated orange juice and other natural flavors, citric acid, sodium benzoate (preserves freshness), caffeine, sodium citrate, gum arabic, yellow 5, erythorbic acid (preserves freshness), calcium disodium EDTA (to protect flavor) and brominated vegetable oil.

Calories 110
Total Fats (g) 0
Sodium (mg) 50
Potassium (mg) 0
Total Carbohydrates (g) 31
Sugars (g) 31
Protein (g) 0
Caffeine (mg) 37

[King David]

I did & do (or dew), THAT's why I listed it (like coffee or colas) -- among MANY things that are bad for us!


--KING DAVID


P.S. I don't "dew" - never even tasted it.

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by King David

I did & do (or dew), THAT's why I listed it (like coffee or colas) -- among MANY things that are bad for us!


--KING DAVID


P.S. I don't "dew" - never even tasted it.

Sorry about that. I know that other Mormons I know have told me that they're not supposed to have caffeine. That's the only reason I said anything.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by King David
Your mocking of me
Of course we are, you idiot.
You are teaching a religion of the devil.
You lead people away from Jesus Christ.
You beg a good mocking.

Life is easy.
Repent and come to Christ.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by King David

Or MOUNTAIN DEW!!!


--KING DAVID
I knew there was a reason that moronism was of the devil.
You just proved it.
Only satan would keep his worshippers off the Dew!

[wholearmor]

Exclusively MORMON information. (http://www.irr.org/mit/jsfalpro.html)

[Tye Porter]

:thumb:

[SOTK]

Originally posted by wholearmor

Exclusively MORMON information. (http://www.irr.org/mit/jsfalpro.html)

:chuckle:

[godrulz]

KD is a guest on an evangelical board. I do not thing he deserves derision. Rather, speak the truth in love.

I think it is presumptious for him to set an area apart for Mormons when evangelicals are funding this board to honor and glorify their God (not the Mormon religion). If I went to an LDS funded board, I would feel I was a guest and have the integrity to not hijack it or make the rules.

The 'word of wisdom' on caffeine strikes me as legalistic. Small amounts of caffeine are innocuous and have some physiological benefit. The sugar and dyes in soda pop are probably more deleterious.

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by godrulz
The sugar and dyes in soda pop are probably more deleterious.

...and they could be harmful.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by godrulz
KD is a guest on an evangelical board. I do not thing he deserves derision. Rather, speak the truth in love.

Ok.

God loves you, KD, in spite of your religion.
But unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, you'll burn in hell.


Does the mormon religion even believe in hell?

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

...and they could be harmful.
:chuckle:
Are they bad for you too?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

:chuckle:
Are they bad for you too?

:shocked: Maybe! I hadn't thought of that! :eek:

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

:shocked: Maybe! I hadn't thought of that! :eek:
You think you may not have considered it?

[godrulz]

Thesaurus...synonyms...OK, I get the point.:rolleyes:

[King David]

I would like to welcome all you folks as MORMONS! Since this is the "Exclusively Mormon thread", you've all posted here, which is evidence that you apparently consider yourselves to be Mormon! Glad to have you (even Leo)! Of course, I think you'll all need to be taught by our missionaries, be baptized as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, etc., to be considered genuine "Mormons". Go ahead, send me a Private Message with your name and address, and I'll get the missionaries lined up to bring you a copy of The Book of Mormon (or, for $20 or so, you can buy a replica of the First edition like Freak got)!


--KING DAVID

p.s. Tye, I 'dew' like soda pop in moderation (once every couple of months or so in small quantities).

[godrulz]

At what point is this considered proseltyzing and contrary to TOL rules?

Should a moderator consider banning KD, lest a searching individual or weak Christian be deceived?

This responsibility must be balanced with freedom of speech.

[King David]

Originally posted by godrulz

At what point is this considered proseltyzing and contrary to TOL rules?

Should a moderator consider banning KD, lest a searching individual or weak Christian be deceived?

This responsibility must be balanced with freedom of speech.


'rulz,

Great, NOW you would have ME banned from the Exclusively Mormon thread! What, so YOU can proselytize your weak 'traditional Christian' brothers and sisters into YOUR brand of 'Mormonism'? What's this world coming to, when Mormons can't be Mormons even in their own thread?

How many times have I been invited to abandon my "Mormon" beliefs and become "Christian"? (Many). Is not THAT proselytizing? I suppose even JESUS would be banned from this whole FORUM, for He would certainly proselytize!!!

I fear God more than man. Go ahead, ban me, if you will (I can see OEJ, chomping at the bit to do so, I believe).

But, if you do, I guarantee, this forum will die!!!


--KING DAVID

p.s. 'rulz really fears me and what I may do. It is most interesting.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by King David

'rulz,

Great, NOW you would have ME banned from the Exclusively Mormon thread! What, so YOU can proselytize your weak 'traditional Christian' brothers and sisters into YOUR brand of 'Mormonism'? What's this world coming to, when Mormons can't be Mormons even in their own thread?

How many times have I been invited to abandon my "Mormon" beliefs and become "Christian"? (Many). Is not THAT proselytizing? I suppose even JESUS would be banned from this whole FORUM, for He would certainly proselytize!!!

I fear God more than man. Go ahead, ban me, if you will (I can see OEJ, chomping at the bit to do so, I believe).

But, if you do, I guarantee, this forum will die!!!


--KING DAVID

p.s. 'rulz really fears me and what I may do. It is most interesting.

:darwinsm:

You crack me up, KD!

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by godrulz

At what point is this considered proseltyzing and contrary to TOL rules?

Should a moderator consider banning KD, lest a searching individual or weak Christian be deceived?

This responsibility must be balanced with freedom of speech.

This is a privately owned message board. There is no freedom of speech other than that deemed by Sir Knight.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

This is a privately owned message board. There is no freedom of speech other than that deemed by Sir Knight.
Let just say even that is a narrow focus...-----><------

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by King David

'rulz,

Great, NOW you would have ME banned from the Exclusively Mormon thread! What, so YOU can proselytize your weak 'traditional Christian' brothers and sisters into YOUR brand of 'Mormonism'? What's this world coming to, when Mormons can't be Mormons even in their own thread?

How many times have I been invited to abandon my "Mormon" beliefs and become "Christian"? (Many). Is not THAT proselytizing? I suppose even JESUS would be banned from this whole FORUM, for He would certainly proselytize!!!

I fear God more than man. Go ahead, ban me, if you will (I can see OEJ, chomping at the bit to do so, I believe).

But, if you do, I guarantee, this forum will die!!!


--KING DAVID

p.s. 'rulz really fears me and what I may do. It is most interesting.

Get a grip, KD. Your prophecies are no more valid than Joseph Smith's.

Failed Prophecies of Joseph Smith (http://www.irr.org/mit/jsfalpro.html)

:yawn: You're just another boring, angry, mixed up Mormon. :p

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Let just say even that is a narrow focus...-----><------

Not let's...you.

[Tye Porter]

Yeah, I said that.
I'll be banned by the morning.
Nice knowing you, Sir.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor
:yawn: You're just another boring, angry, mixed up Mormon. :p
Please tell me you've not just figured this out?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Please tell me you've not just figured this out?

No, but I just uttered it. :D

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

No, but I just uttered it. :D
COWabunga, dude!

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

COWabunga, dude!

[Tye Porter]

And which one is your favourite?

"Heros in a half-shell!"

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

And which one is your favourite?

"Heros in a half-shell!"

Which ever one isn't homosexual so I don't hold out much hope.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

Which ever one isn't homosexual so I don't hold out much hope.
So the rumours are true?
These guys and the Teletubbies? :eek:

That explains the matching/corresponding colours!

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

So the rumours are true?
These guys and the Teletubbies? :eek:

That explains the matching/corresponding colours!

It would seem most parents don't have much discernment when it comes to what they allow their children to watch on T.V.

[Tye Porter]

What's T.V.?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

What's T.V.?

Thoughtless Visions?

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

Thoughtless Visions?
Whoops.
I'm sorry, we're talking about catholics?

Well, aren't their preists T.V.'s?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Whoops.
I'm sorry, we're talking about catholics?

Well, aren't their preists T.V.'s?

That'd be one way to describe 'em.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

That'd be one way to describe 'em.
There are other ways?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

There are other ways?

Pedophiles comes to mind.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

Pedophiles comes to mind.
They're homosexuals too, right?
All liberals are homos, right?

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

They're homosexuals too, right?
All liberals are homos, right?

As the teacher said in the movie (I wish I could remember which movie), "All of them."

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

As the teacher said in the movie (I wish I could remember which movie), "All of them."
Was that Jim Belushi?
"How much for the women?
All of them!"
That would be Blues Brothers.

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

Was that Jim Belushi?
"How much for the women?
All of them!"
That would be Blues Brothers.

No, some kids were acting up and the lead role asked the teacher something like, "All of them?" and the teacher replied, in a very disgusted voice, "All of them."

[godrulz]

Originally posted by King David

'rulz,

Great, NOW you would have ME banned from the Exclusively Mormon thread! What, so YOU can proselytize your weak 'traditional Christian' brothers and sisters into YOUR brand of 'Mormonism'? What's this world coming to, when Mormons can't be Mormons even in their own thread?

How many times have I been invited to abandon my "Mormon" beliefs and become "Christian"? (Many). Is not THAT proselytizing? I suppose even JESUS would be banned from this whole FORUM, for He would certainly proselytize!!!

I fear God more than man. Go ahead, ban me, if you will (I can see OEJ, chomping at the bit to do so, I believe).

But, if you do, I guarantee, this forum will die!!!


--KING DAVID

p.s. 'rulz really fears me and what I may do. It is most interesting.

If this was a Mormon sponsored, and Mormon paid for board your whining would be valid. Your Mormon thread could be used to proselytize. You would not be banned from a thread that you really have no right to post; you would be banned from a board that is for edification and evangelism, not a platform for every false religion to hijack. I would expect censure if I went to Mormon boards and did what you do here. There are many Christian boards that have explicit rules against members of false religions creating confusion and controversy. If you do not abide by their responsible rules, you forfeit the right to be there. Who are you to stake out territory and rebuke us for expressing concern about your overt attempt to get missionaries to the door (cf. signing a guest book at the temple in Hawaii or requesting a free book of mormon)?

As you know, I am not a moderator and have no power or desire to ban you. Darkness runs from light, and not the other way around.

It is an evangelical board with responsibility before God to not provide a platform that may deceive the uninformed. We have a responsibility and right as an explicitly evangelical ministry to proselytize you. You do not have to be here. We pay for the board and offer it up as a tool for the Holy Spirit. It is not your tool to convert us anymore than a Satanist should come here and expect a platform of persuasion. You have your own LDS boards if you insist on breaking the spirit of an evangelical board. Man, are you presumptious to have your feathers ruffled when you are in the wrong and assume this is a labor for every wing nut to deceive people. Those people should start their own sites like the PINK UNICORN church did (at their expense, with their own rules of what has integrity or not).

This forum, since God is in it with hundreds of believers, will continue to post after you leave. Perhaps you meant the thread will die on Mormonism. That would make sense since Mormonism is only of academic interest if there is not a soul to win for Christ in the dialogue.

Please do not bully us. You are a guest on a Christian board, not the moderator of an LDS board. If I went to your LDS boards to persuade people, I would abide by the rules and walk softly rather than demand rights I do not have.

I too fear God. There is a reason the LDS church is a comparitively small group in light of hundreds of millions of evangelical believers. You are not on the winning team.

You are making this personal again. Remember your stress levels and stewardship of time.

[Chileice]

Originally posted by godrulz

At what point is this considered proseltyzing and contrary to TOL rules?

Should a moderator consider banning KD, lest a searching individual or weak Christian be deceived?

This responsibility must be balanced with freedom of speech.

What diff would there be in banning KD. I think that would be a cowardly move. Wickwoman proselytyzes, Purex does in his own weird way. We almost all do in one sense or another. Let him stay. It would be wonderful if he could come to a saving knowledge of Christ from being here. I doubt that will happen as we all (me included) have a hard time not using ridicule when we read some of his outrageous posts. But what we don't understand is that to him they make perfect sense. When you are born into a closed system, it is very hard to understand anything that comes from outside your box. Really it is a thinking error. Christians can do it too. We just dismiss any info that does not fit our already pre-constructed world. It is a Velcro-Teflon paradox. That which reinforces our belief system sticks like Velcro and that which challenges it slides off like Teflon. It is just that good mormons have been taught that ANYTHING outside the stake-house should slide off like Teflon and all Mormon stuff will stick like glue.

Facts like the inability for any non-mormon archaeologist to find any of the cities in the Book of Mormon just slides off, because they have an highly developed auto-immune system that sees even listening to such an idea dangerous. So they will believe 10 mormon "scholars" and reject the entire rest of the world's evidence and it will seem logical to do so. That is how KD, day after day can be bombarded on this forum by information that to a normal person would raise some doubts, and yet he can go on pumping out mountains of the "Velcro" stuff... the mormon stuff wherewith he was programmed from childhood.

Many of us Christians can fall into the same trap. We can think that if a mormon said it... it must be wrong and have it slide off like Teflon. Many Mormons have said and done many good things which are not invalidated by their religious blindness. I'm sure KD has done many virtous things, stuff we could all be proud of... but his worldview is so different from ours that we will never meet in the middle.

He cannot see how he is NOT christian because he has been taught he is, in spite of the fact that there is so much contrary evidence. The contrary evidence slides off. And our rejection of him sticks like glue reinforcing the thought that HE is the Christian and we are all apostates. We can't see how he can't see the differences and that the difference are broad. Somehow serving Joseph Smith as prophet, having to be married and sealed in the temple, serving in a religion with multiple gods where even the believer can become a god all seems normal and "christian" to him because of the closed environment in which he lives and the thinking error that has developed.

I'm sure KD will see my post as some kind of an attack, and it too will slide off like off of Teflon. I really honestly wish KD could understand the grace offered by the real Jesus (Who I know he thinks he serves). I think deep down he is a sincere person trying to serve God in the only way he knows, in the only way his upbringing will allow him to entertain as possible. In the future I hope I will treat him with more respect and try not to poke fun even when I find the posts hard to swallow.

KD, I still hope someday you will become a Christian. You would be a powerful force on the team. Blessings,
Chileice

[Poly]

Originally posted by wholearmor

This is a privately owned message board. There is no freedom of speech other than that deemed by Sir Knight.
:chuckle:

[King David]

Thanks, Chileice!

Its heart warming to have someone stand up for you, even if they think you're wrong. It helps to have a Gamaliel here or there.


--KING DAVID

[Chileice]

Originally posted by King David

Thanks, Chileice!

Its heart warming to have someone stand up for you, even if they think you're wrong. It helps to have a Gamaliel here or there.


--KING DAVID

No problem:)

[King David]

To All of My Mormon Friends,

Listen to this talk, entitled THE GRANDEUR OF GOD, by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland in the last General Conference, I find it to be a true scriptural classic. Here, he speaks of the --

It is the grand truth that in all that Jesus came to say and do, including and especially in His atoning suffering and sacrifice, He was showing us who and what God our Eternal Father is like, how completely devoted He is to His children in every age and nation. In word and in deed Jesus was trying to reveal and make personal to us the true nature of His Father, our Father in Heaven.

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-401-21,00.html

You can also listen to the audio of the talk at this site. I would like to have input from any and all of my "Mormon" friends who may visit TOL regarding this talk.


--KING DAVID

[Mustard Seed]

This needs to be repeated for all -especially us 'Mormons' <especially me>-

REPENT YE! REPENT YE!

(see there's plenty for us to talk about on an 'exclusivley 'Mormon'' thread like this!)

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed

This needs to be repeated for all -especially us 'Mormons' <especially me>-

REPENT YE! REPENT YE!

(see there's plenty for us to talk about on an 'exclusivley 'Mormon'' thread like this!)

So have you?

[Tye Porter]

Will they?

[wholearmor]

You could start a new poll with that question, I guess.

[Tye Porter]

Originally posted by wholearmor

You could start a new poll with that question, I guess.
It would not help.
If I "totem" once, I "totem" a hundred times, mormonism is a false religion.

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Tye Porter

It would not help.
If I "totem" once, I "totem" a hundred times, mormonism is a false religion.

Aren't all religions false?

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Chileice

No problem:)

Chileice has spoken the truth in love, as we all endeavor to do.

Sincerity does not create truth, KD. No one doubts your sincerity or integrity. One of us is sincerely wrong.

I have always argued that KD should be allowed to remain. My rebuke comes when he is presumptious about his rights here, rebuking our rights (as well as a legit concern to not be a platform for overt proselytizing...i.e. soliciting responses in order to send a missionary to TOL people's door...more than one true believer has forfeited their salvation to a cult due to lack of discernment or the shepherds not looking out for the flock).

There are good, secular studies on the nature of religious indoctrination, brainwashing, and mind-control. A Mormon will see it in a JWs life, and yet be blind to it in his own life.

[godrulz]

Remember Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Radio Church of God had a huge doctrinal shift from heresy to orthodoxy (they still retained some sectish control tendencies)?

I hope I see the day when thousands of Mormons and JWs come to saving faith in Christ as their kingdom of the cults crumbles, error by error.

[King David]

'rulz claims no one needs a church. He denies Jesus' work by doing so, for Jesus most definitely organized a church.

Of course he would say that a church is not necessary (though a Bible is), because he's Protestant. If he said a church is necessary, then he would have to concede to the Catholics.

We are looking forward to the day when many more Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, and Jews are all part of the fold of God, otherwise known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Come, all ye heavy laden, and Christ can and will truly give you rest, for his yoke is easy, and his burden is light.


--KING DAVID

[OMEGA]

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.

[godrulz]

Originally posted by King David

'rulz claims no one needs a church. He denies Jesus' work by doing so, for Jesus most definitely organized a church.

Of course he would say that a church is not necessary (though a Bible is), because he's Protestant. If he said a church is necessary, then he would have to concede to the Catholics.

We are looking forward to the day when many more Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, and Jews are all part of the fold of God, otherwise known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Come, all ye heavy laden, and Christ can and will truly give you rest, for his yoke is easy, and his burden is light.


--KING DAVID

Thread and post where I claimed that "no one needs a church"? I will renounce that view, repent, and edit the post for clarification. Surely this is your misunderstanding of my ecclesiology (universal vs local church). There are no "Lone Ranger" Christians (although the thief on the cross went to paradise before he could be baptized or join a church). The 'mother church' does not save anyone, but it is assumed if you are in vertical relationship with God that you will also be in horizontal relationship with His people (Eph.; I Cor.; I Jn., etc.). We are saved by faith in a person (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12), and not by joining a church. There are many members of the LDS church, Catholic church, etc. who outwardly are good church goers, but inwardly do not know or submit to God ("Sunday Christians"...live like the devil the rest of the week).

A true believer will be part of the universal, invisible Body of Christ that crosses denominational walls. They will also identify with a local expression of the Body (I suspect that Mormon scholars would also concur with my distinction...all Mormons worldwide are part of the mother organization, and yet congregate in specific buildings around the world forming a sub-congregation).

[King David]

Originally posted by godrulz

Thread and post where I claimed that "no one needs a church"? I will renounce that view, repent, and edit the post for clarification. Surely this is your misunderstanding of my ecclesiology (universal vs local church). There are no "Lone Ranger" Christians (although the thief on the cross went to paradise before he could be baptized or join a church). The 'mother church' does not save anyone, but it is assumed if you are in vertical relationship with God that you will also be in horizontal relationship with His people (Eph.; I Cor.; I Jn., etc.). We are saved by faith in a person (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12), and not by joining a church. There are many members of the LDS church, Catholic church, etc. who outwardly are good church goers, but inwardly do not know or submit to God ("Sunday Christians"...live like the devil the rest of the week).

So, you DO FINALLY agree that Jesus was and is an individual! Of course, Jesus established ONE church (meaning ONE organization, with local congregations). And, you are saying that membership in that ONE organization is NOT 'salvifically' essential.

It is quite clear that one became a member of his church when baptized (which baptism was NOT only symbollic for the person being baptized, as far as their acceptance of the gospel, and showing them making a covenant with God, but it was ALSO an indication that the ONE Church (again, with many local congragations) ACCEPTED that person into the ONE Church. Hence, membership IS important. This is why John the Baptist declared to the pharisees, "Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance."

Hence, since you deny the NEED of membership for SALVIFIC reasons, you are denying the need for church membership.

Any repentance, clarification, or other back tracking then on YOUR part here?

A true believer will be part of the universal, invisible Body of Christ that crosses denominational walls. They will also identify with a local expression of the Body (I suspect that Mormon scholars would also concur with my distinction...all Mormons worldwide are part of the mother organization, and yet congregate in specific buildings around the world forming a sub-congregation).

There is ONE church, with MANY local congregations.


--KING DAVID

[godrulz]

There is one universal, invisible Body of Christ (Church) with many local congregations of various cultural and historical backgrounds (denominations, fellowships, independant congregations).
Repentance and faith in Christ places one in the Church. We then should identify with a local expression of the family and army of God.

The Roman Catholic or Church of Jesus Christ LDS or Watchtower organization are not the true Church.

[Chileice]

Originally posted by King David


It is quite clear that one became a member of his church when baptized (which baptism was NOT only symbollic for the person being baptized, as far as their acceptance of the gospel, and showing them making a covenant with God, but it was ALSO an indication that the ONE Church (again, with many local congragations) ACCEPTED that person into the ONE Church. Hence, membership IS important. This is why John the Baptist declared to the pharisees, "Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance."

--KING DAVID

I do NOT think this is abundantly clear. What church did the ethiopian eunuch become a member of when he was baptized? This idea of church membership is a much later development that all of us take far beyond what a First Century understanding would have been. The LDS have taken it even further. Equating their church with the Christ. We ARE baptized into Christ but I do not see that there is a necessary equation of being baptized into an organization. The organization, no matter what it is or how good it is is run by fallible humans. We are IN Christ if we truly repent and accept Him by faith and we are baptized into his true (some might say, mystical) body. We are also encouraged to participate in a physical manifestation of that body in a local congregation. I think the more organized and top-down controlled that congregation is... the less likely it is to be a true reflection of the true body of Christ and the more likely it is to become a yes-man support group for the institution which controls it.

[LightSon]

godrulz

The sugar and dyes in soda pop are probably more deleterious.

wholearmor

...and they could be harmful.

LightSon
Thanks allot Gilligan :D

[King David]

Originally posted by Chileice

I do NOT think this is abundantly clear. What church did the ethiopian eunuch become a member of when he was baptized?

Of course, the Ethiopian Eunuch (and others) had been baptized by John the Baptist (or by his disciples). Jesus himself, of course, was baptized by John the Baptist.

Who did John receive his authority from? Of course, he received it from God. And, since God is a king, both were baptized into the 'Kingdom of God', which is another name for the Church of Jesus Christ.

Of course, later, Christ (that is, his disciples) baptized more than John the Baptist (that is he and his disciples) did. And, again, John the Baptist himself had declared that he must decrease, while Jesus increased. They were both (John the Baptist and Jesus Christ) of the same organization. John the Baptist, of course, was a preparer for Christ. And, his baptism of water was a preparatory ordinance for the baptism by fire (of the Holy Ghost), which keys John the Baptist did not have, but Christ and his disciples did.

This idea of church membership is a much later development that all of us take far beyond what a First Century understanding would have been. The LDS have taken it even further. Equating their church with the Christ.

To the contrary. That there were those who were admitted into the church, and requirements made of them before they were (including producing "fruits worthy of baptism", i.e., "real and full repentance"), as well as requirements to stay in (or be "cast out", of membership).

Jesus' parable of cutting off or out "offending members" was not where one would poke one's own eye out (literally and bodily), but it was symbollic of removing "offending (church) members", since the body of Christ (his Church) was to be purged, as and when needed, of those who would, like cancer, consume the whole body if allowed to remain.

We ARE baptized into Christ but I do not see that there is a necessary equation of being baptized into an organization.

Show me in scripture where the dychotomy you are making is made between Christ and his "body" (church).

The organization, no matter what it is or how good it is is run by fallible humans. We are IN Christ if we truly repent and accept Him by faith and we are baptized into his true (some might say, mystical) body. We are also encouraged to participate in a physical manifestation of that body in a local congregation.

Many of Christ's parables talk about "being in him". Being "in him" (Christ) MEANS to be in his organization, his Church. The true vine parable, again, is another one equating "branches" (whether individuals, households, or whole ecclisiastical congregations, must remain "in Christ" (as part of his larger Church) to be connected to the vine, the giver of life to the branches.

[/QUOTE] I think the more organized and top-down controlled that congregation is... the less likely it is to be a true reflection of the true body of Christ and the more likely it is to become a yes-man support group for the institution which controls it. [/QUOTE]

Notice how when Ananias and his wife Sapphira withheld part of the payment they received of the sale of a possession from the church (for they then lived the "united order", or had "all" in common), not only did they lose their church member -- but also their very lives!

You want to talk about CONTROL???

God will do with those in his kingdom or church as He will. Whether it is by God's voice, or by the voice of his servants, IT IS THE SAME!

When God confered the keys of authority to his apostles, that was to bind in heaven what they bound on earth, and likewise, to loose. They were given full authority, and were the ultimate arbitrators, as long as they lived, of who should be allowed into the church, who should remain, and who should be cast out, or excommunicated. The Lord, by his servants, will indeed regulate his church, for His (God's) house is not a house of confusion, but one of order.


--KING DAVID

[King David]

No one has responded to my last post, because they cannot, by the scriptures, counter my argument.


--KING DAVID

[rajuncajun]

Originally posted by King David

No one has responded to my last post, because they cannot, by the scriptures, counter my argument.


--KING DAVID Well don't you feel big and bad!!!:ha: :ha:

[King David]

Originally posted by kcajunmiller

Well don't you feel big and bad!!!:ha: :ha:


Care to rebut my "strong reasons", kcajunmiller?


--KING DAVID

[CryTears]

Originally posted by King David

This thread is exclusively for those who are Mormons, i.e., those who believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that he translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and that he died as a martyr.

One may be 'LDS', 'RLDS' (or now, 'Community of Christ'), as well as even any 'sect' of 'Mormonism', including any of a number of what 'mainstream LDS' may consider apostate, those of any polygamist groups.

Give your interests regarding 'Mormonism' (but, again, ONLY if you truly consider yourself to be 'Mormon' according to the definition given in the first paragraph above.


Welcome,


--KING DAVID

KD, I keep asking people what the problem with Mormons are and they don't answer, so I found your thread.
Maybe you can tell me what the problem with Mormons are from a Christian perspective?

[godrulz]

KD has consistently rejected cogent Scriptural arguments and assumes his ramblings are irrefutable or defensible. I would not assume that we cannot answer your concerns. It is you who has not responded many times to the information we give you.

Give me a specific verse (s) from the Bible to support LDS teaching, and I will share what the normative understanding of it is (or alternate possibilities so we can wrestle with the interpretation) based on evangelical Christianity or counter-cult ministry (this may take research of Greek of commentaries...we do have different understandings of some verses in our circles, but so do LDS scholars). My contention is that the Mormon or JW understanding of many verses in eisogesis with a pre-conceived theology, rather than exegesis with the grammatical, historical, contextual, biblical, literal understanding of verses.

Quoting LDS works do not add credibility, because one has to assume they are true (the older revelation of the Bible is the standard by which we compare modern revelation if there is a contradiction). The classic escape clause will be to say the Bible is mistranslated if it contradicts LDS views.

[rajuncajun]

I have read a book titled Christianity,Cults&Religions.This is what is said about the LDS belief:
about God;He was once a man,but become God,He has a physical body and a wife.And that oneday men may become gods.
Jesus:He was created by God and His wife,the eldest brother of all men,He was married,His death on the cross does not provide full atonement for all sin,but does provide everyone with resurrection.
Holy Spirit:That is a fluid like substance by which the Father exerciseshis influence.
Salvation:resurrected by grace,but saved by works,Mormon baptism,tithing,ordination,marriage,secret temple rituals,no eternal life without Mormon membership.
Death:everyone goes to one of three separate heavenly"kingdoms"with some achieving godhood,Apostates and murderers go to outer darkness.
To me this is disturbing to read.It's crazy.KD is this true what this book is saying about mormons??????

[godrulz]

Those who have the genuine can spot a counterfeit without knowing all the details of doctrine. The average Mormon or JW does not know much of the history or beliefs of their movements. Those who do, rationalize away the conflicts due to the high cost of admitting that one has been deceived. Ignorance is not excuse in light of the wealth of information available.

The greater challenge is to help believers and seekers know what and why they believe. "Cults are the unpaid bills of the church". It is easier to keep someone from a false group than to extricate them once they are in it.

[rajuncajun]

Well I do not believe their teachings,I believe in the teachings of Christ(The Holy Bible).You would think that they would see that this is so far fetched that they will turn away.It just don't make sense to me.

[Chileice]

Originally posted by King David

Of course, the Ethiopian Eunuch (and others) had been baptized by John the Baptist (or by his disciples). Jesus himself, of course, was baptized by John the Baptist.

Who did John receive his authority from? Of course, he received it from God. And, since God is a king, both were baptized into the 'Kingdom of God', which is another name for the Church of Jesus Christ.

Of course, later, Christ (that is, his disciples) baptized more than John the Baptist (that is he and his disciples) did. And, again, John the Baptist himself had declared that he must decrease, while Jesus increased. They were both (John the Baptist and Jesus Christ) of the same organization. John the Baptist, of course, was a preparer for Christ. And, his baptism of water was a preparatory ordinance for the baptism by fire (of the Holy Ghost), which keys John the Baptist did not have, but Christ and his disciples did.

To the contrary. That there were those who were admitted into the church, and requirements made of them before they were (including producing "fruits worthy of baptism", i.e., "real and full repentance"), as well as requirements to stay in (or be "cast out", of membership).


First of all the Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized by Phillip, not by one of John's disciples but rather by one of the church's first deacons. So your entire earlier argument makes no sense.

Originally posted by King David
Show me in scripture where the dychotomy you are making is made between Christ and his "body" (church).


The Bible speaks of Christ and the Bride of Christ in Revelation. The Bride is his body and is obviously sparate from Christ himself.

[/QUOTE] I think the more organized and top-down controlled that congregation is... the less likely it is to be a true reflection of the true body of Christ and the more likely it is to become a yes-man support group for the institution which controls it. [/QUOTE]

Originally posted by King David
Notice how when Ananias and his wife Sapphira withheld part of the payment they received of the sale of a possession from the church (for they then lived the "united order", or had "all" in common), not only did they lose their church member -- but also their very lives!

They weren't disloyal to a church organization, they lied to the Holy Spirit.

--KING DAVID [/QUOTE]

[CryTears]

so Mormons do not believe Jesus was the Son of the Father?
The every day Mormon, what do they learn in church?

[King David]

Originally posted by crytahvn

so Mormons do not believe Jesus was the Son of the Father?
The every day Mormon, what do they learn in church?

Quite to the contrary. Mormons DO believe that Jesus was and is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THE FATHER BUT ONLY IN THE FLESH.

We believe that ALL mankind, male and female, are literally the spirit sons and daughters of God. This in no way distracts from Jesus' position. In fact, it enhances it, since he is our "big brother" who is doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

Jesus was the First Born of God the Father of all spirits. He was and is the only one with the integrity to do what he did -- to be the Savior, and to have wrought the atonement for us.

This is what "every day Mormons" are taught in church.


--KING DAVID

[CryTears]

Originally posted by King David

Quite to the contrary. Mormons DO believe that Jesus was and is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THE FATHER BUT ONLY IN THE FLESH.

We believe that ALL mankind, male and female, are literally the spirit sons and daughters of God. This in no way distracts from Jesus' position. In fact, it enhances it, since he is our "big brother" who is doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

Jesus was the First Born of God the Father of all spirits. He was and is the only one with the integrity to do what he did -- to be the Savior, and to have wrought the atonement for us.

This is what "every day Mormons" are taught in church.


--KING DAVID

okay, thanks. I think I understand. When you say only in the flesh, but then say was the Father of all spirits it sort of confuses me.
I can also see all of us being spirit sons and daughters of God, but what about the spirits of the people prior to Jesus? They had to have spirits, right?

[King David]

Originally posted by crytahvn

okay, thanks. I think I understand. When you say only in the flesh, but then say was the Father of all spirits it sort of confuses me.
I can also see all of us being spirit sons and daughters of God, but what about the spirits of the people prior to Jesus? They had to have spirits, right?

God the Father (aka 'Heavenly Father', 'Father of Spirits', 'Elohim', 'the Most High God'), He is the Father of ALL the spirits of men (and women) from Adam and Eve to the last baby at the end of the great Millennium of peace and rest. He WAS (and IS) ALSO the literal father of Jesus' Christ's body, just as I am the literal father of two sons and seven daughters, and God the Father is the father of Jesus' physical body ONLY (that is, God the Father did not beget any children on this earth IN THE FLESH. All others were the physical offspring of other mortals ('mortals', of course, means those who will die, as in 'mort' French/Latin for 'death').

Of course, Jesus died. But then because his father was immortal, he had the power within himself to take up his own body again (to self-resurrect). Being perfect in thought, word and behavior proved the integrity of his word before the world was made, that he could and would perform the duty of a Savior or Redeemer, which He has done. Nobody else could do what He (Jesus) did. And it is ONLY by the grace made possible by his atonement that any and all who WILL be saved CAN be saved, if they manifest they are willing to repent and keep God's commandments.


--KING DAVID

[CryTears]

okay I can go along with that.:thumb:

so what is with all the mormon bashing around here?

[godrulz]

You must watch semantics. Mormons use similar words, but redefine them.

They believe we pre-existed as spirit children before coming to earth. This is contrary to the reality that we become individuals at conception.

KDs view on the relationship between the Father and Son is radically different than historical, biblical Christianity.

It is not Mormon bashing to defend the biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity once for all entrusted to the saints (Jude 3). It is an act of love to share truth and oppose error. The Mormons, under Joseph Smith, also were the first to attack the Christian churches saying they are of the devil and need to be replaced with a so-called 'restored gospel.'

Their angel Moroni is an angel of light and Joseph Smith is a false prophet (Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4). We need discernment because there is a different gospel/Jesus being preached that is a counterfeit.

Mormonism is polytheistic (plurality of gods). Judeo-Christianity has always been monotheistic. On this note alone, Mormonism is not worthy of spiritual investigation.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

You must watch semantics. Mormons use similar words, but redefine them.





They believe we pre-existed as spirit children before coming to earth. This is contrary to the reality that we become individuals at creation.

KDs view on the relationship between the Father and Son is radically different than historical, biblical Christianity.

It is not Mormon bashing to defend the biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity once for all entrusted to the saints (Jude 3). It is an act of love to share truth and oppose error. The Mormons, under Joseph Smith, also were the first to attack the Christian churches saying they are of the devil and need to be replaced with a so-called 'restored gospel.'

Their angel Moroni is an angel of light and Joseph Smith is a false prophet (Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4). We need discernment because there is a different gospel/Jesus being preached that is a counterfeit.

Mormonism is polytheistic (plurality of gods). Judeo-Christianity has always been monotheistic. On this note alone, Mormonism is not worthy of spiritual investigation.

1. :help: okay I will keep that in mind.
2. ?
3.Okay, I can see that.
4. How do you know they were false prophets?
5. ? and I don't believe in the term "judeo-Christianity"

I can see where some people might think we were spirits first and then got assigned bodies at the time of conception.
Maybe that is why we are not born 'talking'?
I can see where discussions could take place, but I don't see any malfunction in regard to their belief, thus far.
I went to this site.http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-1,FF.html

[godrulz]

www.utlm.org (for the other side)

Oops..I meant to type we become individuals at CONCEPTION, not creation or eternally pre-existing as spirit children.

What is your background? Are you searching or do you identify with Mormons? If you go to their site, it will look credible and persuasive, but you are opening yourself up to a spirit of deception. Mormonism is not biblical Christianity, but a modern day cult started by Joseph Smith.

There is a battle for your soul, and I pray you will have wisdom and discernment. Salvation is in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Almighty God, risen from the dead...not in an organization started by a controversial individual (despite the many good qualities and people in that organization).

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

www.utlm.org (for the other side)

Oops..I meant to type we become individuals at CONCEPTION, not creation or eternally pre-existing as spirit children.

What is your background? Are you searching or do you identify with Mormons? If you go to their site, it will look credible and persuasive, but you are opening yourself up to a spirit of deception. Mormonism is not biblical Christianity, but a modern day cult started by Joseph Smith.

There is a battle for your soul, and I pray you will have wisdom and discernment. Salvation is in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Almighty God, risen from the dead...not in an organization started by a controversial individual (despite the many good qualities and people in that organization).
This thread is the totality of my "mormon" upbringing.;) I truly didn't know anything about them except going to the site looking up my genealogy, and hearing a few things here and there of a conspiracy, and the girl in my class at school who was mormon. She was a bit of an outcast because she did not wear make up or drink coffee or tea, you know how kids are, mean. Besides that she was homely. Then I heard along time ago about how the minister rubbed some oil on the body of the bride naked. That was about it for me at that time, I was VERY modest.:)
But I didn't realize that many people disagree with Mormons until I came to TOL.
My parents were United Methodist, my father mostly, he had protestant values and lived by them but did not really go to church, okay he never went to church, after I was about 6yrs old,
my mother was anti religion, still is, she rolls her eyes at the thought of going to church.
My sister is not speaking to me because she said I have turned into a 'religious' nut.
I baptised as catholic at 15yrs old, and if I go to church it is to a catholic church but I don't agree with the church anymore so much. The last church I went to was Orthodox Christian, the problem with that is I don't sing very well.:) but I like all the imagery. And they don't let you get communion unless you are a member of the church.
I probably agree with the belief's of Orthodox Jewry the most but then I can't worship Christ.
There is Quaker but....... I am a bit too too for that.
I church hop:D maybe it is better than a bar hop?
The only reason I find it interesting about the Mormon thought that we were spirits before is that my 'death experience' I talked about on another thread, it seemed like I new where I was, that I had been there before.
I am going to go check out the site you gave me and see what it says.

[BillyBob]

How is TOL's favorite Jew Hater this morning, Cryt?

[CryTears]

Originally posted by BillyBob

How is TOL's favorite Jew Hater this morning, Cryt?

I am fine thanks, arab hater.:D but I am ready to go back to my comfort zone, this mormon stuff is confusing.

[CryTears]

Okay, I read through the Mormon site you gave me.
I did not read the entire thing, but about four or five pages completely.
I would not join a church that does not allow me to wear a cross. Or that I would need a trial to leave. I have committment phobia.:)
nor do I want my name listed in a book of books:noid:
That isn't my calling, but if other people think it is theirs, well, sort of like smoking, no I don't but don't mind if you do.
God gave me a calling, and I am off to do it!

:D

[godrulz]

Where do you live? Russia? What you are seeking is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Try finding an evangelical, Bible-believing Church that teaches the Word of God and knows and loves Jesus. All the best in your spiritual journey.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

Where do you live? Russia? What you are seeking is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Try finding an evangelical, Bible-believing Church that teaches the Word of God and knows and loves Jesus. All the best in your spiritual journey.

:D LOL @ Russia.
okay, I am thinking mennonite, got any scoop on them?

[godrulz]

Mennonites are a Protestant denomination started hundreds of years ago by Simon Mennos (?). They are part of the Anabaptist tradition. Like any church, some Mennonites have a heart relationship with God, while others are merely religious and cultural (nominal..in name only). There are varieties of Mennonites. Find a group that loves God, honors His Word, and preaches the Gospel of Christ crucified and risen from the dead.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

Mennonites are a Protestant denomination started hundreds of years ago by Simon Mennos (?). They are part of the Anabaptist tradition. Like any church, some Mennonites have a heart relationship with God, while others are merely religious and cultural (nominal..in name only). There are varieties of Mennonites. Find a group that loves God, honors His Word, and preaches the Gospel of Christ crucified and risen from the dead. :thumb:

[Granite]

Cry should try the Christian Identity Movement. Right up her alley...

[godrulz]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cry should try the Christian Identity Movement. Right up her alley...

CIM...KKK...anti-Jewish...did I miss something? Does Cry have an anti-semetic history here?

[CryTears]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cry should try the Christian Identity Movement. Right up her alley...
I am surprised you don't drop your membership from the JDL while you claim to be a Christian granite.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

CIM...KKK...anti-Jewish...did I miss something? Does Cry have an anti-semetic history here?

granite is a truth hater, they are mentioned in the bible
he also accused my parents of being fundamentalists, bigots, and members of the Christian right movement.
which is REALLY strange considering my mother is an artist and could careless about Christianity or the bible.
my sister is about as liberal as you can get as a stevie nix wannabe
my father died, granite would probably gloat at that.

[crunchie]

I thought this was a 'christian' forum??

[newway2bhuman]

Originally posted by crunchie

I thought this was a 'christian' forum??

Yeah, you can't tell by the way people act around here.

[crunchie]

Originally posted by newway2bhuman

Yeah, you can't tell by the way people act around here.

I meant it in reference to the mormon thread.:)

[CryTears]

Originally posted by crunchie

I meant it in reference to the mormon thread.:)

:D

[Granite]

Actually I never accused cry's parents of being bigots; I asked if they were to see if there was some explanation for why cry thinks Jews eat infants, shot JFK, and started every war in history.

I'm not a member of the JDL and that's cry's typically lame attempt at humor.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by granite1010

Actually I never accused cry's parents of being bigots; I asked if they were to see if there was some explanation for why cry thinks Jews eat infants, shot JFK, and started every war in history.

I'm not a member of the JDL and that's cry's typically lame attempt at humor.

actually you did too, you said I was raised by fundamentalist right winged racist bigots
and you are too a member of the JDL,
and a liar, you keep saying I said Jews eat infants A BLATANT LIE!
or guilty mind one of the two

I tried to be friends with you and help you celebrate Fridays but noooooooo ohhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhh
but all of this got me thinking of Brian David Mitchell :)

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/31/JewishWorld/JewishWorld.42658.html

[CryTears]

I should tell my mother you are calling her a 'fundy'
she would slap you.

[Granite]

"actually you did too, you said I was raised by fundamentalist right winged racist bigots"

No, I didn't. I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this like a fifth grader.

"and you are too a member of the JDL"

Oh, I see. Is this your version of sarcasm or do you have my name and a membership list?

"and a liar, you keep saying I said Jews eat infants A BLATANT LIE"

You refuse to call the blood libel cults what they are: libel and lies. You've wondered if there's truth behind them. What else is there to say? You speculate that Jews might sacrifice infants. Or at the very least, that they did, at one point.

[godrulz]

Originally posted by crunchie

I meant it in reference to the mormon thread.:)

Two Mormons are posting on our Christian forum. It is not an LDS forum.

[CryTears]

Originally posted by granite1010

"actually you did too, you said I was raised by fundamentalist right winged racist bigots"

No, I didn't. I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this like a fifth grader.

"and you are too a member of the JDL"

Oh, I see. Is this your version of sarcasm or do you have my name and a membership list?

"and a liar, you keep saying I said Jews eat infants A BLATANT LIE"

You refuse to call the blood libel cults what they are: libel and lies. You've wondered if there's truth behind them. What else is there to say? You speculate that Jews might sacrifice infants. Or at the very least, that they did, at one point.
funny you should be claiming that in an islamic ritual thread LOL
but now that you mention it, the man that took that little girl was the same coloring, built, and had a blue uniform that looked similar to those phoney israeli moving scam artists in florida.
take a look! (http://www.movingadvocateteam.com/id29.htm)

[CryTears]

Originally posted by godrulz

Two Mormons are posting on our Christian forum. It is not an LDS forum.

I think we are on the wrong thread, it says exclusively mormon.
I was just checking it out, but I am finished I think.
byeeeee

[Mustard Seed]

I hereby reclaim this thread for us Mormons! Down with the anti-Mormon propeganda and lies!

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by wholearmor

So have you?

Working on it constantly.

[LightSon]

Questions for Mormons, eg. MS or KD (any other LDS on TOL?).

1. Do any men get condemned to the Lake of Fire or do we all go to one of the three (celestial type) places?

2. Do you consider yourselves to be Christian? and if so

3. do you consider Christians to (unwittingly) be Mormon?

4. Are there any specific punishments for me, if I reject Joseph Smith as a prophet?

5. Why was polygamy okay (God's will) at the outset of the LDS church, but not today?

6. Have you ever seen a person return from the dead to witness his or her proxy baptism? or have you ever heard reports of this?

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by LightSon

Questions for Mormons, eg. MS or KD (any other LDS on TOL?).

1. Do any men get condemned to the Lake of Fire or do we all go to one of the three (celestial type) places?

Yes men and even some who belong to our church can and will get condemned to the "Lake of Fire" for a time. We believe, however that all save sons of perdition will receive one of the heavenly glories come the end of the millenium and hence once they have 'paid the uttermost farthing'. Essentialy we believe that all those but those who sin against a sure witness of the Holy Ghost.

...except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 76:43)

That however is not an easy condition to procure.


2. Do you consider yourselves to be Christian? and if so


Yes.

3. do you consider Christians to (unwittingly) be Mormon?


Interesting question. Well we believe that a great many live by a great many principles of truth and in that way they could be considered to, I guess, in someways to be 'closer' to Mormonism than others. Technicaly they are not members of the church but I have seen some 'dry members', those who have yet to make the decision to get baptized, that might consider themselves 'Mormon'. From the early days of the church the title 'jack-Mormon' was used to refer to those sympathetic with but not aligned with Mormonism. However today it has a slightly differrent connotation


4. Are there any specific punishments for me, if I reject Joseph Smith as a prophet?

The degree of salvation would be limited. The highest conceivable glory you could acheive would be the Terrestrial Kingdom. If you were abiding the ten commandments and Christ were to come we believe that you would survive the second comming and enjoy millenial glory. As would all the faithfull of all relgions that adhere to basic principals such as those found in the ten commandments.




5. Why was polygamy okay (God's will) at the outset of the LDS church, but not today?

Yes.


6. Have you ever seen a person return from the dead to witness his or her proxy baptism? or have you ever heard reports of this?

No and 'kind of'. I've heared reports of people knowing that the baptism was accepted. However I have not heard of a specific visual confermation. However that does not mean it has or hasn't or could not happen.

[Servo]

Have the Mormons made any attempt to test the DNA of any of the Indians living here in the US to see if they are actually of Jewish decent?

[On Fire]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed
5. Why was polygamy okay (God's will) at the outset of the LDS church, but not today?

Yes.


Ummm.....did you read the question?

[Knight]

Originally posted by Shimei

Have the Mormons made any attempt to test the DNA of any of the Indians living here in the US to see if they are actually of Jewish decent? :chuckle:

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Shimei

Have the Mormons made any attempt to test the DNA of any of the Indians living here in the US to see if they are actually of Jewish decent?

Now that was a low blow. Doubt you get an answer on that one.

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

Ummm.....did you read the question?

Sorry. I misread that. The reason for it being unacceptable at the moment is the same reason that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son despite the fact that child sacrifice was not permited. Whatever God tells a prophet is correct at any given time is correct. Normaly it is not correct to kill but God commanded Israel to carry out genocide on more than one nation. I do not know why exactly God does such things. I trust his omniscient view understands everything and knows the corolaries of all things.

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed
Sorry. I misread that. The reason for it being unacceptable at the moment is the same reason that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son despite the fact that child sacrifice was not permited. Whatever God tells a prophet is correct at any given time is correct. Normaly it is not correct to kill but God commanded Israel to carry out genocide on more than one nation. I do not know why exactly God does such things. I trust his omniscient view understands everything and knows the corolaries of all things.

Now that's a Calvinistic statement if I've ever heard one. That is the one thing I agree with the Mormons on.

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by Swordsman

Now that was a low blow. Doubt you get an answer on that one.

To the contrary.

DNA tests, despite what mormonchallenge.com would have you believe are inconclusive as to proving one way or the other because the only DNA that has been tested up to now is not the DNA that is in the nucleus of the cells. It is Mitochondrial DNA. That is it is passed only through the matriarchal line. Thus several plausible scenerios could have cut off these lines completely. Untill you have a comprehensive tests on the DNA that is found in the nucleus of the cells you cannot, on a scientificaly credible level, state that there is no DNA link.

This is just part of the rebutal. There are many other items that are ignored in the overly simplistic accusations claiming DNA proof against the Book of Mormon. There are some really good refutations though I doubt any of you will take the time to read them. Let's see if any of you can refute these.


Several links can be found on this page to articles refuting claims like those made by mormonchallenge.com (http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1-18078,00.html)


The movie on the mormonchallenge website is quite entertaining. The 'Christians' end their message with a stance that counters their entire anti-Mormon argument. They, for most of the movie, appeal to science. Yet at the end they do not even attempt to address the problems the scientific community has with their faith. They conveniently ignore that the scientific community has as many crosshairs on them as they would like to see on us.

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by Knight

:chuckle:


Read the articles Knight. Then we'll see if it's so :chuckle: !

[Granite]

Just for the heck of it...

Why was the decision to allow blacks into the priesthood made at a time when it was politically expedient to do so?

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed

To the contrary.

DNA tests, despite what mormonchallenge.com would have you believe are inconclusive as to proving one way or the other because the only DNA that has been tested up to now is not the DNA that is in the nucleus of the cells. It is Mitochondrial DNA. That is it is passed only through the matriarchal line. Thus several plausible scenerios could have cut off these lines completely. Untill you have a comprehensive tests on the DNA that is found in the nucleus of the cells you cannot, on a scientificaly credible level, state that there is no DNA link.

There's a flip side to the coin. On a scientificaly credible level, one, as of yet, has ever been able to prove that there IS a DNA link. And I quote from the article you provided a link (http://www.lds.org/newsroom/files/Whiting_DNA.pdf) to.

Originally posted by Michael F. Whiting
No research program thus far has been designed to specifically test the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.

Back to your post.......

This is just part of the rebutal. There are many other items that are ignored in the overly simplistic accusations claiming DNA proof against the Book of Mormon. There are some really good refutations though I doubt any of you will take the time to read them. Let's see if any of you can refute these.


Several links can be found on this page to articles refuting claims like those made by mormonchallenge.com (http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1-18078,00.html)


I've read one of them. :)

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by Swordsman

There's a flip side to the coin. On a scientificaly credible level, one, as of yet, has ever been able to prove that there IS a DNA link. And I quote from the article you provided a link (http://www.lds.org/newsroom/files/Whiting_DNA.pdf) to.


True. The same that can be said for the much of biblicaly related archeology. In most instances the key aspects of the bible have neither been disproven nor proven. I have no problem with that.



Back to your post.......



I've read one of them. :)

Excellent! I'd encourage you to read more!

[b-baggins]

1. Do any men get condemned to the Lake of Fire or do we all go to one of the three (celestial type) places?

The Lake of Fire has three meanings in LDS theology. It can mean the time of anguish between death and the resurrection of the unjust. It can mean final consignment to the Telestial kingdom which is the least of the kingdoms of glory, where the individual is eternally separated from the Father and the Son and which glory Paul likened to the brightness of the stars. Finally, it can mean consignment to outer darkness with Satan and his angels.

This last is typically what Protestants consider when they think of hell. In order for an individual to be consigned to outer darkness, he must be a baptized Mormon who has received an absolute witness and surety as to the living reality of Christ, who then turns and tells the world that there is no Christ. Joseph Smith likened it to a man telling people there is no sun while it is shining in his face. Such individuals commit the unpardonable sin and crucify the Lord afresh.

Just as a side note, many ex-Mormons will take some sort of perverse pride in claiming that Mormon theology considers them Sons of Perdition for leaving the church. This is most likely not true, since it is doubtful any of them had such a sure witness of the reality of Christ before denying him. However, they will surely suffer judgement for the things they preach about the LDS faith which, as former members, they know to be patently false.

2. Do you consider yourselves to be Christian? and if so

Of course. Any one who follows Christ is a Christian, by definition and notwithstanding certain individuals and groups who maintain their own particular interpretation of scripture is the only "true" Christianity.

3. do you consider Christians to (unwittingly) be Mormon?

No. You are not a Mormon until you receive baptism, by the proper authority, into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

4. Are there any specific punishments for me, if I reject Joseph Smith as a prophet?

Joseph Smith is considered a prophet like Moses, and an Apostle like Peter. I will answer your question with a question: Do you think there will be specific punishments for you if you reject Moses as a prophet and Peter as an Apostle?

5. Why was polygamy okay (God's will) at the outset of the LDS church, but not today?

Because the purpose of polygamy is the creation of posterity and permission is only given by special commandment of the Lord. This is pretty clear from reading the Old Testament. Polygamy is the exception not the rule. The Book of Mormon states this doctrine quite clearly in Jacob. Plural marriage is only permitted when specifically commanded by God for the specific purpose of raising up posterity. In all other cases, the practice is a sin.

6. Have you ever seen a person return from the dead to witness his or her proxy baptism? or have you ever heard reports of this?

I have heard accounts from two people on two instances who saw the dead sitting in the temple witnessing proxy baptisms on their behalf.

I, myself, have not personally had that particular spiritual experience, but I have had related experiences of a similar nature. I will not go into specifics here because of the mocking and scornful attitude of members of this thread.

[b-baggins]

Have the Mormons made any attempt to test the DNA of any of the Indians living here in the US to see if they are actually of Jewish decent?

Not that I'm aware of. Others have done so, though and the answers are inconclusive. Determining ancestry by DNA is an extremely imprecise and unreliable measurement.

Much more interesting are the legends of a great white bearded god who visited anciently and promised to return again which is prevalent among South American Indians (it's one of the reasons Cortez was able to conquer the Aztecs and Incas so easily; they thought he was this returning god.).

There are also some fascinating archeological finds in Meso-america as well.

And, just to forestall the argument, the "mormon" scholars who discovered them are recognized experts in their professional fields. They are not quack researchers. Many of them have done work on the Dead Sea Scrolls as well as ancient Middle-Eastern archeaology and are nationally recognized for their works.

Don't fall for the implication from critics that all the archaeological finds supporting the Book of Mormon in meso-america are done by uneducated religious fanatics. These men are well respected in their fields.

Here are some names:

Carl W. Griffin, resident scholar at the Institue for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, Brigham Young University, is working toward a Ph.D. in early Christian studies at the Catholic University of America. He graduated summa *** laude with a bachelor's degree in Near Eastern studies and classics from BYU in 1995 and he received a master's degree in early Christian studies from the Catholic University of America in 2000.
------
Kristian Heal, resident scholar at the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, Brigham Young University, is working toward a Ph.D. in Syriac studies from the University of Birmingham. His dissertaion is on the figure of the Old Testament Patriarch Joseph in Syriac literature. Heal received a bachelor's degree in Jewish history and Hebrew from University College, London, and a master of studies in Syriac studies from Oxford University.

Heal currently works as the associate editor of the Institute's Eastern Christian Texts series and as a principal investigator for the Eastern Christian Digitizing Initiative. He is a member of the North American Patristic Society and the Society for the Study of Christian Spirituality.
---------

John Gee, the William "Bill" Gay Research Chair and assistant research professor of Egyptology at Brigham Young University, received a bachelor's degree in Near Eastern studies with a minor in mathematics from BYU in 1988. He received a master of arts in Near Eastern studies from the University of California at Berkeley in 1991 and a master of philosophy from Yale in 1998. Gee earned his Ph.D. in 1998 from Yale in Egyptology with the dissertation, "The Requirements of Ritual Purity in Ancient Egypt."

In addition to his research assignments within the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, Gee also serves as a member of the board of directors for the Aziz S. Atiya Fund for Coptic Studies at the University of Utah. He has published many articles and books, including "Towards an Interpretation of Hypocephali," Mélanges offerts à Edith Varga, Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts Supplément-2001 (Budapest: Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, 2001), 325-34; "Notes on Egyptian Marriage: P. BM 10416 Reconsidered," Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 15 (2001): 17-25; Traditions about the Early Life of Abraham, John A Tvedtnes, Brian Hauglid, and John Gee, eds. (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2001); "Aramaic Funerary Practices in Egypt," coauthored with Bezalel Porten, in World of the Aramaeans II: Studies in History and Archaeology in Honour of Paul-Eugène Dion, ed. P. M. Michèle Daviau, John W. Weavers, and Michael Weigl, Journal for the Study of the Old Testament Supplement Series 325 (Sheffield: Sheffield Press, 2001), 270-307; and A Guide to the Joseph Smith Papyri (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2000).


So, the next time you hear a critic of the LDS church use the phrase "Mormon Scholar" in a mocking and dismissive manner, ask yourself who is doing the deceiving.

[b-baggins]

Why was the decision to allow blacks into the priesthood made at a time when it was politically expedient to do so?

It wasn't.

That revelation came in 1978. By that time, most of the political heat against the Church had faded.

The actual concern was the growing number of members in Brazil with mixed ancestry. The church wished to build a temple there and so petitioned the Lord if the time had come for the priesthood to be extended.

It was during the Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s that tremendous political and social and economic pressure was brought against the LDS church for its positions on blacks and the priesthood. By the end of the 1970s, the issue had pretty much faded from the public and political spotlight.

In fact, many people were stunned by the announcement at the time since it seemed to come entirely out of the blue.

[SOTK]

Welcome to TOL, B-Baggins (Bilbo :) )! :wave:

Looks like we have another LOTR fan!! :thumb:

Are you Mormon, B-Baggins? Just curious.

Again, welcome!

SOTK

[Mustard Seed]

Originally posted by SOTK4ever
Are you Mormon, B-Baggins? Just curious.

Again, welcome!

SOTK

Amen to the welcome and if he isn't Mormon he's still a darn good apologist. It's good to have some assistance is such an enviroment! Such an occasion merits a bouncing green ball guy thing whatever-you-call-it!


__________________:jump:_____________________

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed

I hereby reclaim this thread for us Mormons! Down with the anti-Mormon propeganda and lies!

Your are on an evangelical bulletin board that is gracious to tolerate your deceptions. You are not paying for this ministry. You may want to claim an LDS board. I would not presume to claim your boards since you have a right to control them and set the rules.

[rene]

I am not sure if you were alive during this time period - - but I was, as an adult. Racial tensions were not as you suggest but were indeed still very much an issue.

Even today, such has not faded from the political spotlight. So while I am sure you have a reason for making the statments that you have - I more than question the accuracy of them because of personal experience.

Rene

Originally posted by b-baggins

It wasn't.

That revelation came in 1978. By that time, most of the political heat against the Church had faded.

The actual concern was the growing number of members in Brazil with mixed ancestry. The church wished to build a temple there and so petitioned the Lord if the time had come for the priesthood to be extended.

It was during the Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s that tremendous political and social and economic pressure was brought against the LDS church for its positions on blacks and the priesthood. By the end of the 1970s, the issue had pretty much faded from the public and political spotlight.

In fact, many people were stunned by the announcement at the time since it seemed to come entirely out of the blue.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by godrulz

Your are on an evangelical bulletin board that is gracious to tolerate your deceptions. You are not paying for this ministry. You may want to claim an LDS board. I would not presume to claim your boards since you have a right to control them and set the rules.

That's a great and reasonable point godrulz! :up:

Whether you like it or not MustardSeed, he has a point. The fact of the matter is that TOL is operated, moderated, and owned by Christians and the majority, if not all of the Christians here, feel that mormons are not Christians. No one is asking you to leave but you certainly have no right to claim anything here. You are a guest and y