Cousins marrying Cousins [Archive] - Theology Forum

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 12:56 PM

Are you speaking of "first" cousins?

If so, they can already be legally married in the following states:

AK, AL, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, HI, MD, MA, NJ, NM, NY, NC, RI, SC, TN, TX, VT, VA, and Washington DC

If the individuals cannot bear children or are over a certain age, then first cousins can be married in these states, as well:

AZ, IL, IN, ME, UT, WI

In Maine, first cousins may be married if they submit to genetic counseling prior to the marriage.

For an informative site, take a look at "CUDDLE International (http://www.cuddleinternational.org/)".

cattyfan

March 5th, 2004, 01:06 PM

Just because they can doesn't make it either advisable or palatable. You don't marry family.

Granite

March 5th, 2004, 01:08 PM

Actually the risks of marrying even first cousins are exaggerated and pose no serious Deliverance-style inbreeding threats.

Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk. Genetic counseling is available for those couples that may be at a special risk for birth defects (e.g. You have a defect that runs in your family) In plain terms first cousins have at a 94 percent + chance of having healthy children. Check the links section for more information on genetic counselors. The National Society of Genetic Counselors estimated the increased risk for first cousins is between 1.7 to 2.8 percent, or about the same a any woman over 40 years of age.

http://www.cousincouples.com/info/facts.shtml

To each their own.

cattyfan

March 5th, 2004, 01:11 PM

genetics risks aren't what I'm concerned about. The fact that they are family is what I find objectionable.

I'm sorry if you can't see the "eeeewwwww" factor.

Granite

March 5th, 2004, 02:09 PM

I understand, but, hey. What about second cousins? Why or why not? As it's not scripturally prohibited, I guess we're just left with our gut reaction and conscience.

I can say this much, a second cousin of mine is a fox, and her being family doesn't change the fact that I recognize it. (For the record we're not married nor did anything happen.) Different strokes, I suppose.

Nietzschean

March 5th, 2004, 02:23 PM

Incest was okay in the Bible, is all I have to say.. :chuckle:

Adam and Eve's children had sex with eachother.
Lot's daughters had sex with him.

There's tons of "immoral sexual activity" in the Bible that is condoned.. :chuckle:

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by cattyfan

Just because they can doesn't make it either advisable or palatable. You don't marry family. Tell that to Adam and Eve's kids and Noah's grand kids. :chuckle:

More evidence that mores change over time. :think:

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by cattyfan

genetics risks aren't what I'm concerned about. The fact that they are family is what I find objectionable.

I'm sorry if you can't see the "eeeewwwww" factor. So don't marry one of your cousins. :thumb:

Ain't America wunnerful! :D

Lucky

March 5th, 2004, 02:26 PM

Now I'm startin' to think Zakath and Netzel are related. :freak:

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Lucky

Now I'm startin' to think Zakath and Netzel are related. :freak: Who or what's a "Netzel"? :think:

Lucky

March 5th, 2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Zakath

Who or what's a "Netzel"? :think:
Nietzschean, the pretzel.

Ezekiel

March 5th, 2004, 02:35 PM

For what is worth let's not forget that Abraham & Sarah were actually brother and sister.. :D

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Ezekiel

For what is worth let's not forget that Abraham & Sarah were actually brother and sister.. :D Why do I suddenly hear banjos and guitars playing the theme from "Deliverance"? :guitar:

Zakath

March 5th, 2004, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Lucky

Nietzschean, the pretzel. Thank you for clarifying. :thumb:

BTW, what type of bird is pictured in your avatar? Is it a real one?

Lucky

March 5th, 2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Zakath

BTW, what type of bird is pictured in your avatar? Is it a real one?
An adult male Painted Bunting. It's a real bird. They spend their summers in southeastern U.S., mostly in TX. :)

the Sibbie

March 5th, 2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Nietzschean

Incest was okay in the Bible, is all I have to say.. :chuckle:

Adam and Eve's children had sex with eachother.
Lot's daughters had sex with him.

There's tons of "immoral sexual activity" in the Bible that is condoned.. :chuckle: I'm pretty sure that marriage between brothers and sisters in the old Testament was not frowned upon as much as marriage or sex between a parent and their child. I believe the latter was considered and abomination.

Nietzschean

March 5th, 2004, 03:22 PM

And so we look down on it now why exactly?

Lighthouse

March 5th, 2004, 08:08 PM

Because it's just plain sick! It makes the majority of society want to vomit.

Greywolf

March 5th, 2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by lighthouse
Because it's just plain sick! It makes the majority of society want to vomit.

The idea of two cousins marrying doesn't make me want to vomit.
Aside from your and other peoples' opinions, do have any reason why cousins shouldn't be allowed to marry?

Turbo

March 5th, 2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Nietzschean

Incest was okay in the Bible, is all I have to say.. :chuckle:

Adam and Eve's children had sex with eachother.It was for a while, before degenerative diseases were a problem.

Lot's daughters had sex with him.

There's tons of "immoral sexual activity" in the Bible that is condoned.. :chuckle: The incident with Lot and his daughters wasn't condoned. It was just recorded truthfully.

Lighthouse

March 5th, 2004, 09:23 PM

It's disgusting, because it's immoral.

Greywolf

March 5th, 2004, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by lighthouse
It's disgusting, because it's immoral.

Not everyone subscribes to the same brand of morality that you do.

Zimfan

March 5th, 2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Greywolf

The idea of two cousins marrying doesn't make me want to vomit.
Aside from your and other peoples' opinions, do have any reason why cousins shouldn't be allowed to marry?

The royal families of Europe are a good example of why cousins shouldn't marry. Too many generations of it and all sorts of nasty recessive traits show up.

ebenz47037

March 5th, 2004, 10:44 PM

My grandparents were second cousins. :) No genetic problems have shown up in our family as of the third generation (my daughter's generation) after them.

Zimfan

March 5th, 2004, 10:50 PM

But were their parents cousins? and their parents? and your parents?
Cousins are genetically different enough that the practice has to continue for quite a few generations before any problems show up. The European royal families did it for several hundred years and it caused all sorts of problems. With each successive generation they became more and more inbred until one member marrying his/her cousin wasn't all that different from siblings marrying.

ebenz47037

March 5th, 2004, 11:05 PM

As far as I know, it only happened the one time. But, I haven't finished my family tree yet. :)

Zimfan

March 5th, 2004, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by ebenz47037

As far as I know, it only happened the one time. But, I haven't finished my family tree yet. :)

Just remember, unless your family tree has no branches there's nothing to worry about. :)

Lighthouse

March 6th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Greywolf

Not everyone subscribes to the same brand of morality that you do.

Morality is morality. You can not get around that. All you can do is deny it, to try and justify your depravity. And incest is still disgusting.

Greywolf

March 6th, 2004, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by lighthouse
Morality is morality. You can not get around that. All you can do is deny it, to try and justify your depravity. And incest is still disgusting.

You're right. I can't get around that. This:
mo·ral·i·ty
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality
is morality, and I'm not trying to get around or deny that.

Different people have different ideas about what is right and wrong, and so they have different ideas of morality. My idea of what is moral is obviously different from yours. Yours seems to differ somewhat from Wholearmor's, and all three of our ideas of what is moral may differ from everyone elses in the world.

Granite

March 6th, 2004, 09:26 AM

Scripture doesn't condemn the marriage of first cousins and the self-professed Christians here should leave it at that.

There's bigger fish to fry.

Mr. 5020

March 6th, 2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by granite1010

Scripture doesn't condemn the marriage of first cousins and the self-professed Christians here should leave it at that.

There's bigger fish to fry.

This is interesting. First cousins marrying...hmm. I suppose there is a huge "eww" factor there, but I guess there's not much wrong with it (on paper).

firechyld

March 8th, 2004, 11:07 PM

The "white" side of my Dad's family were second fleeters when they showed up in Australia... which means a lot of them married relatives.

Why?

Because there weren't enough people in the country (excluding natives) to go around!

You'll find the same applies to old families in America. When there aren't very many people around, incest becomes a lot less frowned upon.

Personally, the only issue I see is if people have been raised as close family... it's the relationship blurring I find disturbing. Some cousins are raised as close as siblings. Some are practically strangers. To me, it's the former who shouldn't marry.

I know a chick who is married to her step brother. It doesn't seem weird because they didn't meet until they were both in their twenties, when their parents married. They never lived as siblings.

Nietzschean

March 9th, 2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by cattyfan

Just because they can doesn't make it either advisable or palatable. You don't marry family.
If you ascribe to the whole "Adam and Eve" story, then everyone in the world is family. Literally.

Nietzschean

March 9th, 2004, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Greywolf

You're right. I can't get around that. This:

is morality, and I'm not trying to get around or deny that.

Different people have different ideas about what is right and wrong, and so they have different ideas of morality. My idea of what is moral is obviously different from yours. Yours seems to differ somewhat from Wholearmor's, and all three of our ideas of what is moral may differ from everyone elses in the world.

I am reminded of the Paths of Enlightenment concept found in Vampire: The Masquerade, which are alternative morality systems for vampires who shun humanity. Such morality systems tend to have a horridly skewed - from a moral human perspective - idea of what regulates as being a sin. For example, whereas one of the highest sins on the path Humanitas is the failure to aid and prevent the death of another person, one of the highest sins on the Path of the Bones is the active participation in preventing death.

It just goes to show that RPG's are the work of Satan.. :chuckle:

Zimfan

March 9th, 2004, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by Nietzschean

If you ascribe to the whole "Adam and Eve" story, then everyone in the world is family. Literally.

Actually, I seem to recall some evidence discovered a while back that suggested that you can trace all of humanity , though not neccessarily to only two people, then at least to a very limited number of people.

Zimfan

March 9th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Nietzschean

I am reminded of the Paths of Enlightenment concept found in Vampire: The Masquerade, which are alternative morality systems for vampires who shun humanity. Such morality systems tend to have a horridly skewed - from a moral human perspective - idea of what regulates as being a sin. For example, whereas one of the highest sins on the path Humanitas is the failure to aid and prevent the death of another person, one of the highest sins on the Path of the Bones is the active participation in preventing death.

It just goes to show that RPG's are the work of Satan.. :chuckle:

It's not just the paper and dice ones that are evil. When i was in middle school I had a friend whose mother told him that Final Fantasy games were evil.
[Abe Simpson's voice] Eeeeeevvvvviiiiillll. [/Abe Simpson's voice]

Nietzschean

March 11th, 2004, 05:32 PM

Poor friend of yours.
Poor stupid and gullible friend.

I remember when my grandfather - a cross-country truck driver - had me convinced that he was driving covered wagons through Indian territory, sniping 'em with a tripple-barrel shotgun and all the other stories.

badp

September 7th, 2006, 01:49 AM

In Leviticus 18 God specifically lists what is incest and what is not. Leviticus goes into great detail as to what is and what is not incest. It lists each one specifically and doesn't rely on an arbitrary "yuck" factor. There's the obvious cases, like brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son, and linearly on down the line. But cousins marrying is not incest. Also something interesting is that Nephews marrying Aunts is prohibited, while Uncles marrying Nieces is not.