Jacob and Paul: Satanic Heroes

[Leo Volont]

Jacob and Paul: Satanic Heroes

This World is as much Satan’s as it is God’s. Let me use a real Metaphor to make things clear. Lucifer and the Selfish Angels who were ejected from Heaven comprised roughly one-third of all the Angels. Remember, the World is outside the Presence of God as per the Curse on Adam and Eve, so God has no direct power in the World but only Power by the Agency of His Angels. God could use two-thirds of the Angels to do His Will in the World, but that would leave Heaven undefended. So the Angels that God can commit to the World are at a rough parity with Lucifer’s Demons.

The Demons will attract the selfish and will attempt to seduce the Naturally Good into acquiescing in the selfishness of Satanic Institutions. Satan is not blind or stupid and will follow closely in the footsteps of God’s Angels and Agents to see if he can undo their Good Work. I can cite two salient instances.

Abraham, the Best Man in the World at the time, was hardly cold in his grave when a terrible mistake was made. A Servant sent to procure Abraham’s son, Isaac, a wife, was a stupid and superstitious man who was given to witchcraft and mindless divination. Instead of using Wisdom and Discernment to select a Woman from whom a Worthy Promised People could pour forth from, this fool listened to Satan and decided he would choose for his Master’s Son’s wife, a saucy girl who would approach him, a strange man, and offer to satisfy all his needs. That is not how one finds a good wife – that is how one selects a One Night Stand. It was just such a strumpet, who Satan tossed in the Stupid Servant’s way. It was this Witch who gave Isaac two sons – the Oldest, who had right to the Blessing of the Patriarchs, was a favorite of his father, who approved of his manliness, prowess and honesty – another Abraham! The Witch, however, preferred the second son, a girly boy given to deceit, manipulation and deception – seeing herself in him, she, of course, loved him more. It is in the Bible how the Witch and her Second Son cheated the First Son out of the Birthright. This would corrupt the Promised People at its virtual inception – but the pollution was far from complete. Jacob in his turn, when he followed his cowardly impulses and ran away to escape punishment, tied up with a Family that recognized that they could take advantage of Jacob’s propensity for lust by making him work off twice the price of for a bride who turned out to be a thief. From Jacob and his Thief Bride sprang 12 or 13 sons. Fortunately, the goodness of Abraham, though tenuously recessive at this point, came through in a son, Joseph, who, unfortunately was not the first born. The Angel of God, seeing the danger of the Blessing of the Patriarchs going to the oldest son, who, the Bible tells us, liked to copulate with sheep and who would sell his other brothers into slavery and lie about it – seeing this impossible future, the Angel of God sprang upon Jacob and wrestled back from him the Blessing, and when Joseph came of Age, the Angel passed The Blessing on to him – undoing some of the damage Satan had done. However, the Jews, as the progeny of Jacob, would until this day be contaminated with the natural flaws of their father… or, perhaps, only influenced by his horrible example. When a Jew reads his Scripture, he sees Superstition, Divination, Deceit, Deception, Manipulation, and overall Selfishness portrayed as JEWISH VIRTUES, so how do we suppose they bring their children up to behave. They hold up Evil as an Ideal and then we are asked to apologize for our bigotry when we suggest the obvious – that one should suspect the Jacobite Hebrews of Treachery and Untrustworthiness. If Satan did not totally win the War, he took several battles and inflicted much loss upon Righteousness.

But that was the old Dispensation. What of the Christian Dispensation. Again, the clouds had hardly closed behind Christ soaring into Heaven, when Satan swooped in, this time In Person, and usurped and co-opted the Messianic Dispensation. Satan took the name of Paul. He tossed out all of the teachings of Righteousness which Christ took three years to disseminate. He replaced them with the Doctrine that Righteousness would be superfluous and that Salvation could be had by merely wishing for it. There were incidentals – Paul taught that the Holy Sacrament was only subjective and that it was poisonous to the people who needed it the most; he taught that the State should have supremacy over the Church, that Copulation should be Sacramentalized; he taught that free will was an illusion and that no human aspiration for Goodness would matter in the least. Who would believe such Patent Evil? Well, nearly everyone. The Promise of an Easy Salvation was simply overwhelmingly attractive. People hoped with all their hearts that it would be True – Everything for Nothing. Ofcourse Paul had to murder Christ, but since the Crime had already been committed, people saw nothing wrong with profiting by it.

Christ said there would be a Wide Way that would lead to Destruction, and He prophesized that a Great False Prophet would arise – a Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing who would be known for his Evil Fruit. Even with this Warning, the Messianic Church of the True Apostles was murdered off and the Christian Church became the Church of Paul. Our Lady and the Apostle John rescued that polluted Church by insisting that the Holy Sacrament be retained. By the High Middle Ages the influence of Paul, Satan, had receded to the background, but with the invention of the Printing Press, the World was soon inundated with the Letters of Paul, and Satan commenced in earnest to Conquer the World with the Black Churches of Protestantism for whom Paul was The Only Apostle – their Satanic Guiding Darkness.

Have not the Protestants and the Zionists – the spiritual sons of the Satanic Paul and Jacob –fulfilled the prophecy of the Antichristical Domination of the Entire World. Are not the True Higher Religions, those Faiths that still have regard for Righteousness, are they not on the very brink of annihilation. It is Ironic, but it will take the Second Coming of Christ to save us from the ‘Christians’, just as it took the First Coming of Christ to reassert, with Teachings and Example, the Honest Righteousness of Abraham over the Serpentine Systems of Jacob.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Jacob and Paul: Satanic Heroes

This World is as much Satan’s as it is God’s. Let me use a real Metaphor to make things clear. Lucifer and the Selfish Angels who were ejected from Heaven comprised roughly one-third of all the Angels. Remember, the World is outside the Presence of God as per the Curse on Adam and Eve, so God has no direct power in the World but only Power by the Agency of His Angels. God could use two-thirds of the Angels to do His Will in the World, but that would leave Heaven undefended. So the Angels that God can commit to the World are at a rough parity with Lucifer’s Demons.

The Demons will attract the selfish and will attempt to seduce the Naturally Good into acquiescing in the selfishness of Satanic Institutions. Satan is not blind or stupid and will follow closely in the footsteps of God’s Angels and Agents to see if he can undo their Good Work. I can cite two salient instances.

Abraham, the Best Man in the World at the time, was hardly cold in his grave when a terrible mistake was made. A Servant sent to procure Abraham’s son, Isaac, a wife, was a stupid and superstitious man who was given to witchcraft and mindless divination. Instead of using Wisdom and Discernment to select a Woman from whom a Worthy Promised People could pour forth from, this fool listened to Satan and decided he would choose for his Master’s Son’s wife, a saucy girl who would approach him, a strange man, and offer to satisfy all his needs. That is not how one finds a good wife – that is how one selects a One Night Stand. It was just such a strumpet, who Satan tossed in the Stupid Servant’s way. It was this Witch who gave Isaac two sons – the Oldest, who had right to the Blessing of the Patriarchs, was a favorite of his father, who approved of his manliness, prowess and honesty – another Abraham! The Witch, however, preferred the second son, a girly boy given to deceit, manipulation and deception – seeing herself in him, she, of course, loved him more. It is in the Bible how the Witch and her Second Son cheated the First Son out of the Birthright. This would corrupt the Promised People at its virtual inception – but the pollution was far from complete. Jacob in his turn, when he followed his cowardly impulses and ran away to escape punishment, tied up with a Family that recognized that they could take advantage of Jacob’s propensity for lust by making him work off twice the price of for a bride who turned out to be a thief. From Jacob and his Thief Bride sprang 12 or 13 sons. Fortunately, the goodness of Abraham, though tenuously recessive at this point, came through in a son, Joseph, who, unfortunately was not the first born. The Angel of God, seeing the danger of the Blessing of the Patriarchs going to the oldest son, who, the Bible tells us, liked to copulate with sheep and who would sell his other brothers into slavery and lie about it – seeing this impossible future, the Angel of God sprang upon Jacob and wrestled back from him the Blessing, and when Joseph came of Age, the Angel passed The Blessing on to him – undoing some of the damage Satan had done. However, the Jews, as the progeny of Jacob, would until this day be contaminated with the natural flaws of their father… or, perhaps, only influenced by his horrible example. When a Jew reads his Scripture, he sees Superstition, Divination, Deceit, Deception, Manipulation, and overall Selfishness portrayed as JEWISH VIRTUES, so how do we suppose they bring their children up to behave. They hold up Evil as an Ideal and then we are asked to apologize for our bigotry when we suggest the obvious – that one should suspect the Jacobite Hebrews of Treachery and Untrustworthiness. If Satan did not totally win the War, he took several battles and inflicted much loss upon Righteousness.

Mary and Jesus were both Jews.

But that was the old Dispensation. What of the Christian Dispensation. Again, the clouds had hardly closed behind Christ soaring into Heaven, when Satan swooped in, this time In Person, and usurped and co-opted the Messianic Dispensation. Satan took the name of Paul. He tossed out all of the teachings of Righteousness which Christ took three years to disseminate. He replaced them with the Doctrine that Righteousness would be superfluous and that Salvation could be had by merely wishing for it. There were incidentals – Paul taught that the Holy Sacrament was only subjective and that it was poisonous to the people who needed it the most; he taught that the State should have supremacy over the Church, that Copulation should be Sacramentalized; he taught that free will was an illusion and that no human aspiration for Goodness would matter in the least. Who would believe such Patent Evil? Well, nearly everyone. The Promise of an Easy Salvation was simply overwhelmingly attractive. People hoped with all their hearts that it would be True – Everything for Nothing. Ofcourse Paul had to murder Christ, but since the Crime had already been committed, people saw nothing wrong with profiting by it.

Salvation is not gained by wishing for it. It is gained by seeking it from God. And that is what Paul taught. And Paul never said that free will was an illusion. He said that we had to allow God to work in our lives. It takes free will to do that.

Christ said there would be a Wide Way that would lead to Destruction, and He prophesized that a Great False Prophet would arise – a Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing who would be known for his Evil Fruit. Even with this Warning, the Messianic Church of the True Apostles was murdered off and the Christian Church became the Church of Paul. Our Lady and the Apostle John rescued that polluted Church by insisting that the Holy Sacrament be retained. By the High Middle Ages the influence of Paul, Satan, had receded to the background, but with the invention of the Printing Press, the World was soon inundated with the Letters of Paul, and Satan commenced in earnest to Conquer the World with the Black Churches of Protestantism for whom Paul was The Only Apostle – their Satanic Guiding Darkness.

Have not the Protestants and the Zionists – the spiritual sons of the Satanic Paul and Jacob –fulfilled the prophecy of the Antichristical Domination of the Entire World. Are not the True Higher Religions, those Faiths that still have regard for Righteousness, are they not on the very brink of annihilation. It is Ironic, but it will take the Second Coming of Christ to save us from the ‘Christians’, just as it took the First Coming of Christ to reassert, with Teachings and Example, the Honest Righteousness of Abraham over the Serpentine Systems of Jacob.

Hell is delighting in you. You are the satanic one.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
This World is as much Satan’s as it is God’s.No, man was given dominion over it, and, in an act of high treason against God, he lost his ability to see and know this (which has yet to be revoked), and so, allows Satan to walk all over him, doing as he wills, keeping men from becoming who they were designed to be.Remember, the World is outside the Presence of God as per the Curse on Adam and Eve, so God has no direct power in the World but only Power by the Agency of His Angels.His Power and Ability know no limitations. He has restricted this realm (physical) to being of a certain nature, and will not let anything (including His own Actions) go against that nature.God could use two-thirds of the Angels to do His Will in the World, but that would leave Heaven undefended.There is no one and nothing which could approach Him, except He allow it to. He could defeat all the angels there are, if all of them were demons, with one Word. One day, He will do just that. It is described in The Book of Revelation.So the Angels that God can commit to the World are at a rough parity with Lucifer’s Demons.No, they are superior, since the demons are in darkness. They do not have The Light, and don't know what they are doing, as angels do.The Demons will attract the selfish and will attempt to seduce the Naturally Good into acquiescing in the selfishness of Satanic Institutions. The 'naturally good,' or innocent, that you speak of, don't exist, except children, and the handicapped, who may never reach the 'age of accountability.' Demons are set to decieve men, whether they have good intentions themselves or not, is of no consequence, except it will take less work to decieve someone who is already self-decieved.Satan is not blind or stupid and will follow closely in the footsteps of God’s Angels and Agents to see if he can undo their Good Work.He is 'blind' to the light, since there is no truth in him. IMHO he is also stupid. He stood in God's Presence and decided to consider himself greater. No one tempted him, it was his own selfishness.

The remainder of your post has only foolish premises, which don't even deserve thought, much less response.

[Servo]

Leo = :kookoo:

[Aimiel]

NO, Leo = :devil:

[Cyrus of Persia]

Aye, Jacob is satanic now too.

Leo, i still havent got reply from you, why you keep making such crappy topics?

[oliverdread]

thanks,

I just wasted my time reading HALF of the original post.
Leo Volont you are one mixed up fella, good luck with that.

in HIS grip,

O.D.

[Lighthouse]

I think Leo should be banned. He actually states that his "angels" are talking to him, while he posts. His satanically guided ways should not be allowed here. It is an affront to God, who this site is about.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Aye, Jacob is satanic now too.

Leo, i still havent got reply from you, why you keep making such crappy topics?

Today Jacob would be in jail for what he did. Have you ever read how he defrauded Isaac. It reads like a Ben Stiller comedy, but everything he did was both unethical and illegal.

Paul was a murderer -- at least life in prison.

But, as I said, they are Zionist and Protestant Heroes.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by oliverdread

thanks,

I just wasted my time reading HALF of the original post.
Leo Volont you are one mixed up fella, good luck with that.

in HIS grip,

O.D.

I'm mixed up!?

I offer an hypothesis that explains how an ostensively 'religious' people like the Jews are so overtly scheming and conniving and I am 'mixed up'. Well, let you explain it then.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Mary and Jesus were both Jews.





They were born into Jewish Families, ostensibly, but Mary was the Immaculate Conception born of the Holy Thing that was handed down from the Patriarches, so, technacally, She was biologically daughter of Adam. Adam predates the Jews, doesn't he. Adam comes before Jacob, not after.

And we know that Jesus was Son of Mary and of God.

So, no, Jesus and Mary are not directly related to that lying, cheating, bad check writer Jacob.

But I am sorry I cannot say anything better about the Hero of the Jewish Race. Maybe they should find a better Hero.

[Gerald]

Originally posted by lighthouse
I think Leo should be banned.
No way! This is some of the funniest stuff I've ever read!
He actually states that his "angels" are talking to him, while he posts.That just comes from sniffing glue; nothing to worry about.
His satanically guided ways should not be allowed here. It is an affront to God, who this site is about. Someone once called me "an affront to God". When I asked what he planned to do about it, he ran away... :chuckle:

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
This World is as much Satan’s as it is God’s. Let me use a real Metaphor to make things clear. Lucifer and the Selfish Angels who were ejected from Heaven comprised roughly one-third of all the Angels. Remember, the World is outside the Presence of God as per the Curse on Adam and Eve, so God has no direct power in the World but only Power by the Agency of His Angels. God could use two-thirds of the Angels to do His Will in the World, but that would leave Heaven undefended. So the Angels that God can commit to the World are at a rough parity with Lucifer’s Demons.This is a pretty wimpy deity you're describing here.

Since when does an Omnipotent Creator™ need to worry about whether heaven is "undefended" or not?

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Today Jacob would be in jail for what he did. Have you ever read how he defrauded Isaac. It reads like a Ben Stiller comedy, but everything he did was both unethical and illegal.

Paul was a murderer -- at least life in prison.

But, as I said, they are Zionist and Protestant Heroes.

I agree that not all what OT patriarchs did weren't good at all. So i dont even bother to defend that guy.

Leo, do you believe in forgiveness? That even murderer when he changes and never murders again, can be forgiven?

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by lighthouse
I think Leo should be banned. He actually states that his "angels" are talking to him, while he posts. His satanically guided ways should not be allowed here. It is an affront to God, who this site is about. Oh, you're right in your implication, it is not angels of The Lord that are speaking to him, but where better to be confronted with the truth and possibly find repentance, other than TOL? We are supposed to be smacking him around with the truth. If he doesn't recognize his wounds, because of his being possessed by a spirit of pride, and bleeds to death, is it our fault? Methinks not.

[Firestarter]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

They were born into Jewish Families, ostensibly, but Mary was the Immaculate Conception born of the Holy Thing that was handed down from the Patriarches, so, technacally, She was biologically daughter of Adam. Adam predates the Jews, doesn't he. Adam comes before Jacob, not after.

Are we not all the biological sons and daughters of Adam?

What about the Psalms that say that 'There is no one righteous, not even one..."? Even Matthew quotes from the Psalms, so they can't be discredited. These scriptures do not allow for a sinless Mary. Mary is not God, therefore she is of mankind. Of all mankind, no one is without sin. Only Christ was born free from sin.

About Jacob, the Angel of the Lord did not wrestle the blessing away from Jacob, because Jacob was wrestling to get blessed. (Genesis 32:26). He recieved that blessing in verse 29.

[theo_victis]

leo volont has always posted questionable stuff....


It makes me wonder if his "angels" that talk to him are on crack.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Firestarter

Are we not all the biological sons and daughters of Adam?

What about the Psalms that say that 'There is no one righteous, not even one..."? Even Matthew quotes from the Psalms, so they can't be discredited. These scriptures do not allow for a sinless Mary. Mary is not God, therefore she is of mankind. Of all mankind, no one is without sin. Only Christ was born free from sin.

About Jacob, the Angel of the Lord did not wrestle the blessing away from Jacob, because Jacob was wrestling to get blessed. (Genesis 32:26). He recieved that blessing in verse 29.

We are all not within one generation of Adam and Eve. Besides, there is a big difference between Adam before the Curse, while he was still a Spiritual Being in Paradise, and after the Curse, when he was cast down into the body of an Ape. We are apes, we are not Spirit -- well, not until Christ redeemed us. His death was not to forgive our sins, but Adam's Sin -- so that Humanity could be Spirit again.

You expect that one verse of Psalms, which speaks with great insight into the Jewish Character when it talks of chronic sinfulness... you expect that therefore everyone is obliged to sinful. That is exactly how Paul the Antichrist construes it. However, did not Christ speak of the Angels celebrating one Repentant Sinner over "99 Righteous Men". Why is it that Protestant comb the Bible for excuses to sin, and overlook Christ speaking of Attainable and Ordinary Righteousness. Christ takes 99 Righteous Men almost for granted. Why? Because it is expected of us. Sin is the aberration. Sin is what should be exceptional and rare. Righteousness is what should be Universal. Christ told us to be perfect as God the Father is Perfect. What He commands must be attainable, no? Quit sifting through the Bible looking for excuses ... you will certainly find enough of them considering the influence of Jews and the Antichrist in its writing --- but that does not mean you should heed their evil.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

leo volont has always posted questionable stuff....


It makes me wonder if his "angels" that talk to him are on crack.

It was Prophesized that the Old Men would dream dreams and that the Children would be Prophets. These are the End Times. If you are a Believer, then why do you not believe that you are seeing the Realization of this Prophecy? Because you find that Leo speaks from outside of the Main Steam? What would you expect? Christ said that Many would take the Wide Way that would lead to Destruction. So is it wise to ignore Leo when he calls to you from the very very Narrow Way which follows only the Moral Teachings of Christ?

You would not be comfortable with Man Made Doctrines, so why criticize Leo for presenting you with Divine Revelation. Exactly what have his Angels said that is so wrong?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Leo, do you believe in forgiveness? That even murderer when he changes and never murders again, can be forgiven?

Yes, if there is remorse and penance. However, look at Paul. When he was summoned before the Sanhedrin he told the High Priest that he had never done a thing in his entire life that he would be ashamed before God of having done... and the High Priest ordered the bailiff to slap Paul in the face for such arrogance. The High Priest knew for a fact of all the blood on Paul's hands. Paul never stopped killing. His tongue never quit being violent -- his letters are rife with insult and invective. And he continued to kill -- the Little Old Jewish Leader on Cyprus who approached Paul about starting a Messianic Congregation -- Paul, in order to stifle a competitor for leadership accused him of Sorcery and had him murdered. Then tells the High Priest he has nothing to be ashamed of.

Honestly, I am an old man and can't think of one person who has ever repented and 'changed'. Not one. I wish I could speak to the Chinese who run the Re-Education Camps. Have they ever taken a Selfish and Greedy Conservative and 'changed' them into an altruistic liberal. I would be impressed.

the Literature speaks of Conversions. But what do they really mean. Some people are seduced and mislead by Satan -- Communists and such. But they are in their hearts Altruistic and Moral, and quite full of Love. In their Coversions, they are not so much 'changed' as set on the Right Path.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Yes, if there is remorse and penance. However, look at Paul. When he was summoned before the Sanhedrin he told the High Priest that he had never done a thing in his entire life that he would be ashamed before God of having done... and the High Priest ordered the bailiff to slap Paul in the face for such arrogance. The High Priest knew for a fact of all the blood on Paul's hands. Paul never stopped killing. His tongue never quit being violent -- his letters are rife with insult and invective. And he continued to kill -- the Little Old Jewish Leader on Cyprus who approached Paul about starting a Messianic Congregation -- Paul, in order to stifle a competitor for leadership accused him of Sorcery and had him murdered. Then tells the High Priest he has nothing to be ashamed of.


1. The Paul you are talking about was new born christian with his sins forgiven. If God never holds those sins agains us what are once forgiven, then why do people need to bring them up again? So Paul was ex-murderer, but not murderer anymore.

2. Paul spoke against heretics in his letters, because he wanted to protect the Church. How does your "angelic message" in any way can be more authorative than the message of Paul? And talking about tongue- compare the letters of Paul and your messages in those forums here, and look who is insulting others more!

3. Quote me the verses about that man from Cyprus whom Paul got killed. And i want those verses to be in Bible, not from your heretical revelations.



Honestly, I am an old man and can't think of one person who has ever repented and 'changed'. Not one. I wish I could speak to the Chinese who run the Re-Education Camps. Have they ever taken a Selfish and Greedy Conservative and 'changed' them into an altruistic liberal. I would be impressed.


Im young man and know many of those who actually are changed after they recieved Christ. So i think our experiences just differ a bit.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

1. The Paul you are talking about was new born christian with his sins forgiven. If God never holds those sins agains us what are once forgiven, then why do people need to bring them up again? So Paul was ex-murderer, but not murderer anymore.

2. Paul spoke against heretics in his letters, because he wanted to protect the Church. How does your "angelic message" in any way can be more authorative than the message of Paul? And talking about tongue- compare the letters of Paul and your messages in those forums here, and look who is insulting others more!

3. Quote me the verses about that man from Cyprus whom Paul got killed. And i want those verses to be in Bible, not from your heretical revelations.




Im young man and know many of those who actually are changed after they recieved Christ. So i think our experiences just differ a bit.

1. you are saying that Paul was saved by a Pauline Doctrine even before he had formulated that Doctrine. Christ spoke only of his Sacrifice bringing Eternal Life -- eternal life in Heaven or eternal life in Hell. The Judgment would be by a Moral Criteria. Christ spent to much time preaching Righteousness for us to suppose that he had intended Free Sin.

2. Paul spoke of 'Heretics' because he was territorial. He wasn't warning against any True Evil. He was setting his congregations against the Apostle John and his Disciples who were offended that Paul was spreading Man-Made Doctrines as thought they had been the Teachings of Christ. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament shows that Gospel Doctrine and Pauline Doctrine are a Polarity Apart. Protestantism would not exist if they did not have Paul to quote.

3. Acts 13: 4 to 12. I'm sorry, he didn't kill the poor old man. He only poked his eyes out. I can see that killing Stephen is hardly enough to be concerned about. It does show significant progress that Paul was no longer murdering but was satisfied with maiming and crippling. If only all Christians had such Moral Authority.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia


Im young man and know many of those who actually are changed after they recieved Christ. So i think our experiences just differ a bit.



You are 'a young man' and so all you know is that youngsters have grown up. You don't know any 'Men'. Not yet. A Man is older than 35. Any change before 35 is just maturity kicking in.

Certainly you don't want to attribute to Heaven what is only the most natural of processes which are available to men of any philosophy or religion.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

1. you are saying that Paul was saved by a Pauline Doctrine even before he had formulated that Doctrine. Christ spoke only of his Sacrifice bringing Eternal Life -- eternal life in Heaven or eternal life in Hell. The Judgment would be by a Moral Criteria. Christ spent to much time preaching Righteousness for us to suppose that he had intended Free Sin.


Nope. He was not saved by the doctrine he got from God later. He was saved by the work Christ did on cross and by His resurrection. The doctrine Paul got later from God helped to explain the deeper meaning of salvation: we are dead with Christ and now we live with Christ in new life. As the OT promised: God gave us new heart and put His commandments into it. This is the new creature Paul is talking about.

Sidenote: maybe you understand why i willingly stressed on fact that Paul got this and that from God? :chuckle:



2. Paul spoke of 'Heretics' because he was territorial. He wasn't warning against any True Evil. He was setting his congregations against the Apostle John and his Disciples who were offended that Paul was spreading Man-Made Doctrines as thought they had been the Teachings of Christ. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament shows that Gospel Doctrine and Pauline Doctrine are a Polarity Apart. Protestantism would not exist if they did not have Paul to quote.


Early Church needed to make all that possible to keep their faith pure against Gnostics, Jews, etc. That's why Paul's opponents appeared to be as Evil as would be Evil to murder child nowadays.

Maybe you quote to me some verses where John and co were offended by Paul? And please, do not use this "666" thing. If you know enough the history of that you know that there is not much room to believe the foolishness that Paul had the mark of the beast. Use some biblical verse, please.

P.S. Yes, there are different theology in NT (Gospels, John, Paul, James), but it's natural, because some of them presented Jewish Christianity, some Gentile Christianity, and some were more close to Gnostitcism (or even maybe properly - close to Christianity according to Thomas).

[/QUOTE]
3. Acts 13: 4 to 12. I'm sorry, he didn't kill the poor old man. He only poked his eyes out. I can see that killing Stephen is hardly enough to be concerned about. It does show significant progress that Paul was no longer murdering but was satisfied with maiming and crippling. If only all Christians had such Moral Authority. [/QUOTE]

Where do you read from the same passage that that man was "Little Old Jewish Leader on Cyprus who approached Paul about starting a Messianic Congregation"? Or do you suggest that Luke (or whoever wrote that passage) perverted the story there?

Ap 5 - why you never tell us that Peter was killer too according to your logic?

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

You are 'a young man' and so all you know is that youngsters have grown up. You don't know any 'Men'. Not yet. A Man is older than 35. Any change before 35 is just maturity kicking in.

Certainly you don't want to attribute to Heaven what is only the most natural of processes which are available to men of any philosophy or religion.

A man is 18+ years old in my society. Or if somebody defines that he becomes a man when he recieves passport, then 16+ years old.

And i have seen those mature men become radically changed.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

A man is 18+ years old in my society. Or if somebody defines that he becomes a man when he recieves passport, then 16+ years old.

And i have seen those mature men become radically changed.

When you grow up you will know what babies 18 year olds are.

Have you never heard "Life begins at 40". Do you suppose such a Universalism is quaintly meaningless?

Gee, why am I even trying to talk to you. If you are as young as you say then you're too immature to comprehend.

[Leo Volont]

Dear Cyprus,

What makes Paul special?

Sun Mung Moon of the Unification Church also said he spoke with the Voice of Christ. Why do we not deify him too. Why not every Christian? Paul never met Christ, or if he did it was only to spit in His Face. So why do you say he received his Doctrines from God. Because he said so? Sun Mung Moon 'says so'. But you don't believe him.

Why is it that you disbelieve Christ. Christ said there would be a False Prophet -- a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing -- which means he would 'speak a good game' -- that he would present an acceptable religious appearance. Has Paul not demonstrated enough Bad Fruit. The Riots which reverberated into the destruction of the Messianic Church of Jerusalem -- wasn't that bad enough? Or the Protestant Wars which killed millions and shattered the political stability of Christendom which resulted in the worst wars in History -- WWI and WWII. All that is not Bad Fruit enough.

You need some political awareness. You say that men killing competitors is 'protecting doctrine'. That is spin. Ordinarily men kill their competitors because they want to kill their competitors. You don't need any reason why. Such explanations are for little children to keep them from crying.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

When you grow up you will know what babies 18 year olds are.

Have you never heard "Life begins at 40". Do you suppose such a Universalism is quaintly meaningless?

Gee, why am I even trying to talk to you. If you are as young as you say then you're too immature to comprehend.

Leo, i know very well that 18 years old can be immature, but sometimes show the signs of maturity.

Still, i dont consider even your heresies as made up by mature man. Intolerancy what you are showing makes you immature in certain aspects.

I dont know why you are talking to me. For me talking to heretic who doesnt have open mind makes me feel that i just waste my time replying to you.

How young am i then?

But back to the theme. You said you have never seen people change. Now you limited that: you never seen any man (according YOUR definition of man) to change. Hmm, maybe i can get you to limit your assumptions even more.

Leo, FYI: i have known lot of people who are older than the limit YOU set to maturity age, who have been changed radically by the power of Christ.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Dear Cyprus,

What makes Paul special?

Sun Mung Moon of the Unification Church also said he spoke with the Voice of Christ. Why do we not deify him too. Why not every Christian? Paul never met Christ, or if he did it was only to spit in His Face. So why do you say he received his Doctrines from God. Because he said so? Sun Mung Moon 'says so'. But you don't believe him.

Why is it that you disbelieve Christ. Christ said there would be a False Prophet -- a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing -- which means he would 'speak a good game' -- that he would present an acceptable religious appearance. Has Paul not demonstrated enough Bad Fruit. The Riots which reverberated into the destruction of the Messianic Church of Jerusalem -- wasn't that bad enough? Or the Protestant Wars which killed millions and shattered the political stability of Christendom which resulted in the worst wars in History -- WWI and WWII. All that is not Bad Fruit enough.

You need some political awareness. You say that men killing competitors is 'protecting doctrine'. That is spin. Ordinarily men kill their competitors because they want to kill their competitors. You don't need any reason why. Such explanations are for little children to keep them from crying.

Dear Leo.

Im tired of going through all this jumbo-mumbo once again wasting time on things what doesnt benefit neither you, nor me. So forgive me if i will just make it short this time:

1. Paul is the apostle of Gentiles. This makes him special for me.

2. You believe that the revelations your belief is based on are divine. What makes them better than those recorded in Paul's letters? What makes you think that the revelations YOU get are real (and not satanic in origin), but what Paul get, are satanic? Nor me, nor you can claim 100% that any revelation we are claiming to be true can be 100% true.

3. Paul has NEVER spit into the face of Christ. Not literally, not symbolically.

4. Jews Christianity died out because they kept flirting with Judaism and were economically dependent. Even Paul needed to support them because they didnt worked out their economical independence like his churches did. Finally "Jerusalems christainity" turned to sect with no future.

5. Paul was not the bad sheep Christ was referring. Your arguments doesnt prove it.

6. Dont pervert my messages! "You say that men killing competitors is 'protecting doctrine'." I have never said that and i have never read that in Early Christianity heretics were killed.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Leo, FYI: i have known lot of people who are older than the limit YOU set to maturity age, who have been changed radically by the power of Christ.

That is an assertion from a young man with no experience in life. So what? Do I know that you know the difference between true fundamental change and just a revamped persona? No.

If you want to convince me, then convince me. Tell us all a story about how someone went from being one person to being another. And Drugs doesn't count. (I love the Twelve Step Stories about how people say the are changed -- well yes, you are definitely a different person if you aren't drinking a quart of vodca a day and taking enough amphedamines to levitate an elephant)

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

That is an assertion from a young man with no experience in life. So what? Do I know that you know the difference between true fundamental change and just a revamped persona? No.

If you want to convince me, then convince me. Tell us all a story about how someone went from being one person to being another. And Drugs doesn't count. (I love the Twelve Step Stories about how people say the are changed -- well yes, you are definitely a different person if you aren't drinking a quart of vodca a day and taking enough amphedamines to levitate an elephant)

Why are you so stupid? I lost my mother when i was 4 years old, my dad 2 days before my 15 year b-day. I have gone through all the sh!t rebellious teenager can go in my time. Being 16 years old i got born again. Been fundamentalist, then adored Prosperity Theology, then went to 4 year studies on theology at univeristy. Had very deep crises in my life (both in spititual and in social). Been near to suicide. Then found stronger faith by forsaking most of the fundy-stuff. Being after that studied Sociology, giving lectures, ministering on church. In the time of my theological studies going through another death of very close person to mine...

I know what is suffering, what is dependence on bad sides of life, what is death, what is to trust on God very personal way, when there is none to lean on. Only me and God.

And you think that i got no experience yet?

Why do i waste my time in forums like that, if i would not wanted to enlarge my knowledges in my spiritual walk?

I better save your and my time, because im here not to convince anything. Im here to enrich my spiritual walk. I know what God is doing in my life and on those you think who are not changed. I also know that despite of your intolerant heresies God is working in your life too and loving you as much as He loves me.

I'm out now. Sorry, Leo, but i dont think that arguing over your heresies will be useful neither to you, nor me. I run out of time to be in virtual world atm. My real life waits. So im out from here for few hours very soon.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

And you think that i got no experience yet?



If you were mature then you would understand how unmature you now are.

Just your ranting and raving at an old man and calling him stupid shows a degree of immaturity, no?

do you honestly think that in the years until you reach 40 that you will lean nothing and acquire no experience and wisdom?

It is only the arrogance of youth which supposes that the years only add foolishness -- which apparently is your argument.

[theo_victis]

Leo-

"It was Prophesized that the Old Men would dream dreams and that the Children would be Prophets. These are the End Times. If you are a Believer, then why do you not believe that you are seeing the Realization of this Prophecy? Because you find that Leo speaks from outside of the Main Steam? What would you expect? Christ said that Many would take the Wide Way that would lead to Destruction. So is it wise to ignore Leo when he calls to you from the very very Narrow Way which follows only the Moral Teachings of Christ?

You would not be comfortable with Man Made Doctrines, so why criticize Leo for presenting you with Divine Revelation. Exactly what have his Angels said that is so wrong? "


Why do you speak in third person? Whatever. I understand that prophecy you spoke of. You are wrong because you deny the word of God and call Paul the anti christ. The fact that you claim "angels" to yourself scares me. Arent they the Lords angels?


By the way, i am not comfortable with man made doctrines. That is why i despise Catholic dogma and protestants. Both have produced false doctrines....


The problem with Catholics: Prayer to Mary/ Eucharist (sacrifice again)/ calling your priest "father"/ tradition = word of God/ apostasy/ lack of effort to reach lost people


the problem with protestants: Say a simple prayer and you will be saved no matter what (read matthew 7, states complete opposite) / God doenst perform miracles any more (not all have fallen to this)/ apostasy/ misdirected evangelism (not every one)



I just find the things you say (or your angels) totally against the word of God. Ha, paul was an anti christ.....

Dude are you angels demonic? Ever thought of that?

your still a fuzzy character.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

You are wrong because you deny the word of God and call Paul the anti christ.

About the "Word of God" doctrine. The Protestants had to call the whole Bible "The Word of God" because if they didn't, then Paul would not be anybody special, would he? Without being published in the Bible, Paul was only a murdering flimflam Itinerent Preacher, busy filling his baskets.

So the phrase "Word of God" was specifically designed to Deify Paul -- to make Paul equal to Christ. By saying Word of God -- Paul becomes equal to Christ.

But think about it. Christ said that no servant is greater than his Master. So why do Protestants get away with placing Paul even with one who should be His Master?

But it was necessary because if Paul was not Deified then his Doctrines would be exactly what I call them -- Man Made. Paul was not an Apostle. Paul bought a franchise letter from Peter, but that is not the same thing.

John, James and Jude all disputed Pauline Doctrine and sent disciples into Paul's districts to correct paul's heresies. It is these True Disciples and Apostles whom Paul was ever fulminating against -- calling them False (what outrageous Irony).



And about the Antichrist. John thought so. Christ Prophesized a False Prophet who would come as a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, who would be known for the great harm he would reek upon the World. Subsequently, it is difficult to discern any significant heresy, division, rebellion or discord in The Church that did not involve Pauline Doctrine. So if Paul was not this Great False Prophet prophesized by Christ, then who?

Christ said that the True Church would be a Field of Wheat mixed with poisonous Tares, and that there would be a Wide Way that would lead to destruction. Is this not all paul. But the Protestants pretend that all has every been all goodness and light and that Jesus must have been paranoid.

[theo_victis]

"About the "Word of God" doctrine. The Protestants had to call the whole Bible "The Word of God" because if they didn't, then Paul would not be anybody special, would he? Without being published in the Bible, Paul was only a murdering flimflam Itinerent Preacher, busy filling his baskets. "

I have thought hard about this. But i have found no contradictions. I hold strong into the believe that Christ prevailed over the cannonization. Other wise all the gospels cant be trusted as well.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

The problem with Catholics: Prayer to Mary

Great, you have a problem with the Mother of God and you think you should be allowed into Heaven. Don't you think it will be uncomfortable, since you seem to hate Her so much. Wouldn't it simply be better if Christ did not invite YOU to the Party. Certainly you don't suppose Christ would prefer you to his own Mother, do you?

Protestants and Jews have been largely successful in suppressing the news of Mary's many apparitions. Mary has come with Revelation and Miracles ever since the establishment of the Church. Her Appearances have only increased. She speaks and tells us Her Spiritual Status and Responsibilities. Indeed we have hundreds of times more proof that Mary exists then Christ.

We are told that the Holy Trinity entrusted us into the Care of the Blessed Virgin. I can't understand how Protestants dare question God's right to make such a Decision.

But basically it is Mary Hatred. You don't know about the Prophecy of Simeon, do you. Luke 2:34. Simeon, the last Prophet of the Judaic Dispensation, looked at Mary and confided to Her that She would be stabbed with a Sword -- that there would be a campaign of insult against Her -- and that the Secret Thoughts of People would be known by whether they would Defend Her or Attack Her.

Then look at yourself -- you first and foremost problem with Catholics is that they have anything to do with Mary the Mother of Christ. By Simeon's Prophecy we already know that you are sinister, hateful and unworthy. It would simply be too awkward for you to be in the same Heaven as She who you hate so much. I'm sure Christ will think of another place He can throw you.

[theo_victis]

Hey dude, i dont have a problem with Mary. She was a nice person who fulfilled Gods prophecies.

What i have a problem with is prayer to mary. Why not just pray to God who made you? Why not pray to Jesus who gives you salvation? Do you pray to king david? He was apart of the Lineage that made Jesus! Why not pray to david as well. NO. I pray to God. Mary is not God. She does not give me salvation. To think she is my savior is blasphameous.

I do not hate mary.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

If you were mature then you would understand how unmature you now are.

Just your ranting and raving at an old man and calling him stupid shows a degree of immaturity, no?

do you honestly think that in the years until you reach 40 that you will lean nothing and acquire no experience and wisdom?

It is only the arrogance of youth which supposes that the years only add foolishness -- which apparently is your argument.

1. Where did i said that i'm mature? You still want to pervert the messages others are writing? No wonder that you have perverted the whole NT with you constancy. You call yourself a old man, but you cannot make difference between "mature" and "having some experience".

2. I will ravage on everyone who is intolerant enough in his heresy. If you would be just heretic, but not calling beliefs of others as satanic (when i believe in Paul besides of others), i would act much gentlier to you. What goes around, comes around, you know?

3. Where have i claimed that old people are more fool than younger? You are perverting my messages and you want yourself to be treated as wise man at the same time? I say that you are fool in your intolerant heresy, not that other old people are the same. Actually most older people i know i have much respect toward them.

Learn to respect other peoples beliefs and stop perverting Holy Scripture. If you cannot, then whose fault it is?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

Hey dude, i dont have a problem with Mary. She was a nice person who fulfilled Gods prophecies.

What i have a problem with is prayer to mary. Why not just pray to God who made you? Why not pray to Jesus who gives you salvation? Do you pray to king david? He was apart of the Lineage that made Jesus! Why not pray to david as well. NO. I pray to God. Mary is not God. She does not give me salvation. To think she is my savior is blasphameous.

I do not hate mary.

You damn Her with faint praise. Do you bow before Her as Sinless, Blameless and the Spiritual Daughter of Adam before the Curse? No. To you She is merely a nice girl that God must have picked out arbitrarily so that Protestants would not be intimidated by Her. But you should be Intimidated by Her.

Protestants have been taught to reject Divine Revelation. In this regards they are no better than sheer Atheists. But, if you were still Spiritually Alive in the Vine of Christ, you would know that Mary was Crowned Queen of Heaven and given Charge of The Church -- Her Church. It is She who was delegated the Job of Conquering Satan and finally humiliating Him. But Satan struck back hard when he enlisted all of Protestantism to take sides against Her. This is what the Prophet Simeon foresaw when he prophesized that there would be a Campaign of Insult against Our Lady the Blessed Virgin which would be the One Issue which would divide the True Believer from the Satanic Pretenders -- Luke 2:34.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Learn to respect other peoples beliefs and stop perverting Holy Scripture.

Or what, you slobbering green young wippersnapper!

You don't know anything! I have Angels ministering to me! In my Dreams I sit at the Table of Saints. I Travel in the Entourage of the Blessed Virgin Herself. These things are Given to Me.

What do you have. You have the Field of the Wheat and the Tares and not one iota of the Faculty of True Discernment to tell what is good from what is bad. I've told you of the Sayings of Christ that should warn you and instruct you, and you throw them back in my Face as though the Lord's Words themselves are Heresy because they disagree with your Satanic Vision and that of your True Master Paul's.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by theo_victis

Hey dude, i dont have a problem with Mary. She was a nice person who fulfilled Gods prophecies.

What i have a problem with is prayer to mary. Why not just pray to God who made you? Why not pray to Jesus who gives you salvation? Do you pray to king david? He was apart of the Lineage that made Jesus! Why not pray to david as well. NO. I pray to God. Mary is not God. She does not give me salvation. To think she is my savior is blasphameous.

I do not hate mary.

Well said, theo_victis! :up: My sentiments exactly. I love Mary, but I do not worship her. She is a mere human. Only Jesus is worthy of praise! Only Jesus is divine! Only Jesus is perfect!

Leo, put your faith and trust in Christ. Stop this insanity!

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by SOTK4ever

Mary... She is a mere human. Only Jesus is worthy of praise!



Okay, you think you can Slap the Lord's Mother in the Face like that and that Her Son, who entrusted you to Her care, will still welcome you into Heaven. Your insults and Rebellion against Her Queenship constitute a breach of the Prophecty of Simeon -- you Stab Our Lady with your Sword of Contempt, and you encourage others to do likewise.

Look at what Our Lord, in His Judgement Seat, sees you doing. His Mother's Servant, Leo, begs for Christian Support for His Mother in Her fights against Satan. He encounters resistance and contempt as Non-Believers pitch in with their arguments for
Contempt of His Mother. AND YOU PITCH RIGHT IN AND TAKE THEIR SIDE AGAINST HIS OWN MOTHER.

Luke 2:34. The Word of God condemns you.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Okay, you think you can Slap the Lord's Mother in the Face like that and that Her Son, who entrusted you to Her care, will still welcome you into Heaven. Your insults and Rebellion against Her Queenship constitute a breach of the Prophecty of Simeon -- you Stab Our Lady with your Sword of Contempt, and you encourage others to do likewise.

Look at what Our Lord, in His Judgement Seat, sees you doing. His Mother's Servant, Leo, begs for Christian Support for His Mother in Her fights against Satan. He encounters resistance and contempt as Non-Believers pitch in with their arguments for
Contempt of His Mother. AND YOU PITCH RIGHT IN AND TAKE THEIR SIDE AGAINST HIS OWN MOTHER.

Luke 2:34. The Word of God condemns you.

:kookoo:

[theo_victis]

"You damn Her with faint praise. Do you bow before Her as Sinless, Blameless and the Spiritual Daughter of Adam before the Curse? No. To you She is merely a nice girl that God must have picked out arbitrarily so that Protestants would not be intimidated by Her. But you should be Intimidated by Her."

Who do you worship mary or jesus, you cant worship both. You cant serve two masters.

And this one gets all catholics... check this out:

Where in the bible does it say mary was pure and perfect and never sinned?? It is not in the bible. Mary was a great servent to the lord nothing more than that. She did a noble task by giving birth to our wonderful savior. Yet you would bow before mary. Sad. I bow before no one except God. Mary isnt God. YOu are bowing before false gods. Repent Leo. It is a sin.


Another thing...

Why does me bowing before mary equal my salvation. Even if she was perfect (which would contridict scripture for all have sinned except Christ) does she hold authority over heaven?????

Does she have the power to give me salvation through her intercession? Of course not!!!!!

Mary is certainly not God. I worship GOd not humans. Regardless if they are perfect... Can one become God? NO!

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Or what, you slobbering green young wippersnapper!

You don't know anything! I have Angels ministering to me! In my Dreams I sit at the Table of Saints. I Travel in the Entourage of the Blessed Virgin Herself. These things are Given to Me.

What do you have. You have the Field of the Wheat and the Tares and not one iota of the Faculty of True Discernment to tell what is good from what is bad. I've told you of the Sayings of Christ that should warn you and instruct you, and you throw them back in my Face as though the Lord's Words themselves are Heresy because they disagree with your Satanic Vision and that of your True Master Paul's.

People who claim to have visions are everywhere. Some in mental institutions, some in churches, some in the massacre-places like Waco, Texas.

I didnt started to say that the visions of Mary are satanic. You started to say almost every thread that Paul is satanic. No go and figure the saying: what goes around, comes around.

You old man, can you have bit more tolerance? Or are you so obsessed in your mind.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

Who do you worship mary or jesus, you cant worship both. You cant serve two masters.



Where in the bible does it say mary was pure and perfect and never sinned?? It is not in the bible. Mary was a great servent to the lord nothing more than that. She did a noble task by giving birth to our wonderful savior. Yet you would bow before mary. Sad. I bow before no one except God. Mary isnt God. YOu are bowing before false gods. Repent Leo. It is a sin.


Another thing...

Why does me bowing before mary equal my salvation. Even if she was perfect (which would contridict scripture for all have sinned except Christ) does she hold authority over heaven?????

Does she have the power to give me salvation through her intercession? Of course not!!!!!

Mary is certainly not God. I worship GOd not humans. Regardless if they are perfect... Can one become God? NO!

Salvation is a Pauline Doctrine. Paul taught all the Gentiles to join his New Magic Church that murdered Jesus so that they would all have an Easy Do Nothing Salvation. IT WAS NOT TRUE.

You are not 'Saved'. Catholics do not teach Salvation. They teach compliance to the Teachings of Christ so that we will stand some small chance in hell of passing the Judgment.

You have some nerve talking about serving 2 Masters. You set Paul before Christ in all of your doctrines and then pretend to be serving Christ while tossing out His Teachings and by exclusively obeying Paul. A tad hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

Mary was the Immaculate Conception. The Church of Paul thought it inconvenient to their Power and Authority to point this out. But Mary is the Truth and Paul is falsehood. What do you expect from the Church of Paul? We are lucky that anything in the Bible is true. And if anything is true, it is because the Devotees of Our Lady Queen of Heaven were able to insist it be included, when, I am sure, the followers of Paul would have been delighted if only the Letters of Paul had formed the Church's Canonical Scriptures.

Anyway, if you question Mary's worthiness -- read the first few Chapters of Luke. The Angels and the Holy Spirit call Her Blessed and Full of Grace. Now, please show me anywhere else in all of Scripture where any sinner has ever been called Blessed and Full of Grace by the Angels and the Holy Spirit. You won't find it.

Now, consider your atheistic denial of all Modern Divine Revelation. Mary was appointed over us by God. While Christ sits at the Right Hand of God awaiting the 2nd Coming, Mary has been put in charge down here below. Everyone who has been paying attention knows that much. European Civilization -- it used to be called Christendom before the Protestant Rebellion took Christ out of it -- was founded by Mary. The Catholic Church was frankly under Her Oversight and everyone acknowledged as much. Her Apparitions were frequent and Her instructions were obeyed. There was an Active Communication between Heaven and Earth and Mary was the Go Between. Protestants didn't like the Penance and the Righteousness that God required of them, and so they rebelled -- they destroyed Our Lady's Church and taught all the World that it was tantamount to sin to listen to Her -- the Mother of Christ.

Also, look at Scripture. Who was in charge? Mary or Christ. Look carefully. Who always told who what to do? and Who always obeyed? If Mary was Boss then, then why is She still not Boss now?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

People who claim to have visions are everywhere. Some in mental institutions, some in churches, some in the massacre-places like Waco, Texas.

I didnt started to say that the visions of Mary are satanic. You started to say almost every thread that Paul is satanic. No go and figure the saying: what goes around, comes around.

You old man, can you have bit more tolerance? Or are you so obsessed in your mind.

Christ said you will know Trees by their fruit. I say Paul is Satanic because his Doctrines clearly tend to Evil and his historic influence has consistently been for discord, division and strife. Paul was clearly the object of Christ's prophecy of a False Prophet. Also, Simeon had prophesized that Christ's Doctrines would be contradicted. Who was Christ and Simeon speaking of if not the Obvious?

Now, look at my Doctrines and Prophecies. Do you see me enervating the Law? Do you see me circumventing Righteousness? Paul destroyed destroyed destroyed. I am trying to uphold the Teachings of Christ.

Now, what are you doing? You LIKE the Wide Way that leads to Destruction and so you insist that I must be Wrong for pointing you toward the Narrow.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
Salvation is a Pauline Doctrine. Paul taught all the Gentiles to join his New Magic Church that murdered Jesus so that they would all have an Easy Do Nothing Salvation. IT WAS NOT TRUE.
Oh wow. This shows a complete ignorance of early church history, as well as the Jesuswebegung movement as a whole. Plus, I've already refuted your feeble claim that salvation is a "Pauline Doctrine" in another thread.

You are not 'Saved'. Catholics do not teach Salvation. They teach compliance to the Teachings of Christ so that we will stand some small chance in hell of passing the Judgment.
You sure you want to represent Catholics like that? I mean, I can go get my Catholic friends right now who will easily say that you are completely wrong on this statement. Catholics teach salvation--just go read their Catechism.

You have some nerve talking about serving 2 Masters. You set Paul before Christ in all of your doctrines and then pretend to be serving Christ while tossing out His Teachings and by exclusively obeying Paul. A tad hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
No one tosses out the teachings of Christ. This is a simple ad hominem attack because you can't think of anything better to say.

Mary was the Immaculate Conception. The Church of Paul thought it inconvenient to their Power and Authority to point this out.
Excuse me? It was the Roman church that actually doctrinified the idea of the Immaculate Conception, not the church that James and Peter were in, in the eastern Roman Empire. The Roman church was founded by Paul, in the Third and Fourth Phases of his missionary journey. This doctrine eventually (note, I didn't say it started in the 1st century) came from that Roman church.

We are lucky that anything in the Bible is true. And if anything is true, it is because the Devotees of Our Lady Queen of Heaven were able to insist it be included, when, I am sure, the followers of Paul would have been delighted if only the Letters of Paul had formed the Church's Canonical Scriptures.
Uhm, Mary never had any working in the canonizing of the NT. She was dead by the time it happened, and never even participated in its forming minus birthing Christ.

*skipping over your random gibberish that has no scholarship whatsoever*

Also, look at Scripture. Who was in charge? Mary or Christ. Look carefully. Who always told who what to do? and Who always obeyed? If Mary was Boss then, then why is She still not Boss now?
Christ was in charge. He commanded John to take Mary as a mother, and Mary to take John as a son; He told the crowd that anyone who believed was his brother or mother; He taught and teached and all Mary said was to simply do what He said.

Mary was never boss. She was simply a vessel, like all of us, for the Lord's doing.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Christ said you will know Trees by their fruit. I say Paul is Satanic because his Doctrines clearly tend to Evil and his historic influence has consistently been for discord, division and strife. Paul was clearly the object of Christ's prophecy of a False Prophet. Also, Simeon had prophesized that Christ's Doctrines would be contradicted. Who was Christ and Simeon speaking of if not the Obvious?

Now, look at my Doctrines and Prophecies. Do you see me enervating the Law? Do you see me circumventing Righteousness? Paul destroyed destroyed destroyed. I am trying to uphold the Teachings of Christ.

Now, what are you doing? You LIKE the Wide Way that leads to Destruction and so you insist that I must be Wrong for pointing you toward the Narrow.

Nah, you are so full in love with Mary and revelations you get that Teachings of Christ are way secondary in your posts. Destroying with your words the Church and the teachings of God, you are not healing it, but causing way more damage that any Paul could do during his lifetime :chuckle:

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Shaun


You sure you want to represent Catholics like that? I mean, I can go get my Catholic friends right now who will easily say that you are completely wrong on this statement. Catholics teach salvation--just go read their Catechism.



Uhm, Mary never had any working in the canonizing of the NT. She was dead by the time it happened, and never even participated in its forming minus birthing Christ.


Christ was in charge. He commanded John to take Mary as a mother, and Mary to take John as a son; He told the crowd that anyone who believed was his brother or mother; He taught and teached and all Mary said was to simply do what He said.

Mary was never boss. She was simply a vessel, like all of us, for the Lord's doing.

You cannot make arguments about what Catholic Doctrine is from what you see American Catholics doing. The Catholic Church lost the War. Christendom, as a Monolithic Culture, was destroyed. Now Catholics are awash in a see of atheism, secularism, and Protestantism. And their Bishops are a bunch of Vatican II pedophile defenders with Business Degrees. So you have Catholics using protestant phrases like 'born again' and 'salvation'. The Sheep were lost when the Battle was lost.


You suppose Mary died. She did not die. You yourself would admit that no Scripture ever says She died. Therefore, if Scripture did not say She died, wouldn't we suppose it MUST be a Protestant belief that She must therefore still be ALIVE. Besides, it was Church Teaching from ever so early that Mary was Assumed Incorrupt into Heaven. Its been Church History that Mary has appeared thousands of times. You ignore all these appearances -- but this is your atheistic denial of Divine Revelation. If you do not allow the Atheists to be correct about Christ being a huge deception, then why should I honor your equally galling assertion that Mary is a deception?

Mary was able to command Christ. When Christ was 12 years old She spanked his little butt and told him He was to come home and properly grow up before He would assume 'His Fathers Work'. Then, 18 years later, at the Wedding of Cana, Mary told him that He was finally to begin, and Christ's sarcastic reply was "Are you sure it is now my time". This implies that Christ had been exercising a strict obedience to his Mother's Command since he was 12 years old.

But since you believe in Christ's Statement from the Cross, why do you suppose Christ DID NOT PLACE HIS MOTHER OVER HIS CHURCH, since He said so in clear enough words -- "CHURCH, THIS IS YOUR MOTHER". But you would rather reject Her and wait for a lieing persecuting murderer to come along who would teach you a more convenient Doctrine.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Nah, you are so full in love with Mary and revelations you get that Teachings of Christ are way secondary in your posts. Destroying with your words the Church and the teachings of God, you are not healing it, but causing way more damage that any Paul could do during his lifetime :chuckle:

But the Moral Teachings of Christ are understood. Unlike the 14 Letters of Paul which require so many directions of attack and so many weapons to defeat The Teachings, the Teachings themselves are relatively concise. Really, you do not have to read beyond Mathew. Christ's teachings are essentially found in the Sermon of the Mount. Then you have the Parables. Finally you have the Last Supper Talk and the Good Bye Address at the Ascention.

Perhaps I should be making quotes. I assume that Protestants don't entirely neglect the Gospels in order to ever dig into paul looking for new excuses and weapons to use against the Truth, Morality and Righteousness.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
You cannot make arguments about what Catholic Doctrine is from what you see American Catholics doing. The Catholic Church lost the War. Christendom, as a Monolithic Culture, was destroyed. Now Catholics are awash in a see of atheism, secularism, and Protestantism. And their Bishops are a bunch of Vatican II pedophile defenders with Business Degrees. So you have Catholics using protestant phrases like 'born again' and 'salvation'. The Sheep were lost when the Battle was lost.
Uhm. The beliefs held by Catholics on salvation are pretty darn well the same, and have been, for the past 1600 years.

You just like to spout off random gibberish like it's true, right?

You suppose Mary died. She did not die.
Sure she did. Everyone dies physically, even Jesus. Jesus was raised from death, but He still died physically. Mary died physically, and is raised into Heaven just as we will be raised.

You yourself would admit that no Scripture ever says She died. Therefore, if Scripture did not say She died, wouldn't we suppose it MUST be a Protestant belief that She must therefore still be ALIVE.
There's a difference between pulling facts even with omission and just being plain retarded. I would say you fit into the latter category with that ad hoc fallacy you just committed.

Besides, it was Church Teaching from ever so early that Mary was Assumed Incorrupt into Heaven.
Define "ever so early."

Its been Church History that Mary has appeared thousands of times.
Does putting "Church History" in capitals make it formal? No, it has not been documented as fact, and it has always been refuted scientifically and logically.

You ignore all these appearances -- but this is your atheistic denial of Divine Revelation. If you do not allow the Atheists to be correct about Christ being a huge deception, then why should I honor your equally galling assertion that Mary is a deception?
Because you are an ignorant, shallow and self-contrived egotist who thinks he has truth but only really has a strong lack of logic.

Mary was able to command Christ. When Christ was 12 years old She spanked his little butt and told him He was to come home and properly grow up before He would assume 'His Fathers Work'.
LOL. Where are you getting this from? Thomas? The book that was written by the Gnostics to promote their anti-Christian views and has been dismissed as heretical for the entirety of the church? That book?

Then, 18 years later, at the Wedding of Cana, Mary told him that He was finally to begin, and Christ's sarcastic reply was "Are you sure it is now my time". This implies that Christ had been exercising a strict obedience to his Mother's Command since he was 12 years old.
Nice. Too bad that's not what He said:


John 2:3-4
3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

He doesn't even address her as mother, but rather as "woman"; He is authoritatively pushy in tone to her and is very confident in His own words, and gives her very little credibility; in fact, it is apparent from the text that she doesn't even understand His purpose.

Next time you quote the NT, please quote it correctly.

But since you believe in Christ's Statement from the Cross, why do you suppose Christ DID NOT PLACE HIS MOTHER OVER HIS CHURCH, since He said so in clear enough words -- "CHURCH, THIS IS YOUR MOTHER".
You really aren't good at quoting the NT. Maybe you should read it first:

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

That disciple was John, not the church. The reason He did this? For to have John take care of His mother.

But you would rather reject Her and wait for a lieing persecuting murderer to come along who would teach you a more convenient Doctrine.

Why haven't you been banned yet?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Shaun

Uhm. The beliefs held by Catholics on salvation are pretty darn well the same, and have been, for the past 1600 years.

You just like to spout off random gibberish like it's true, right?


Sure she did. Everyone dies physically, even Jesus. Jesus was raised from death, but He still died physically. Mary died physically, and is raised into Heaven just as we will be raised.


There's a difference between pulling facts even with omission and just being plain retarded. I would say you fit into the latter category with that ad hoc fallacy you just committed.


Define "ever so early."


Does putting "Church History" in capitals make it formal? No, it has not been documented as fact, and it has always been refuted scientifically and logically.


Because you are an ignorant, shallow and self-contrived egotist who thinks he has truth but only really has a strong lack of logic.


LOL. Where are you getting this from? Thomas? The book that was written by the Gnostics to promote their anti-Christian views and has been dismissed as heretical for the entirety of the church? That book?


Nice. Too bad that's not what He said:


John 2:3-4
3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

He doesn't even address her as mother, but rather as "woman"; He is authoritatively pushy in tone to her and is very confident in His own words, and gives her very little credibility; in fact, it is apparent from the text that she doesn't even understand His purpose.

Next time you quote the NT, please quote it correctly.


You really aren't good at quoting the NT. Maybe you should read it first:

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

That disciple was John, not the church. The reason He did this? For to have John take care of His mother.



Why haven't you been banned yet?

What's your point?

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Shaun

Why haven't you been banned yet?

Comic relief.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

Comic relief.

Ancient Mystical Tradition found a way of imparting Wisdom in such a way so as not to give excessive offense to those who were being corrected, and they set up a Order of Wisemen who would so impart this Wisdom. They were Jesters.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

What's your point?
My point? Answer the questions.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
You cannot make arguments about what Catholic Doctrine is from what you see American Catholics doing. The Catholic Church lost the War. Christendom, as a Monolithic Culture, was destroyed. Now Catholics are awash in a see of atheism, secularism, and Protestantism. And their Bishops are a bunch of Vatican II pedophile defenders with Business Degrees. So you have Catholics using protestant phrases like 'born again' and 'salvation'. The Sheep were lost when the Battle was lost.
Uhm. The beliefs held by Catholics on salvation are pretty darn well the same, and have been, for the past 1600 years.

You just like to spout off random gibberish like it's true, right?

You suppose Mary died. She did not die.
Sure she did. Everyone dies physically, even Jesus. Jesus was raised from death, but He still died physically. Mary died physically, and is raised into Heaven just as we will be raised.

You yourself would admit that no Scripture ever says She died. Therefore, if Scripture did not say She died, wouldn't we suppose it MUST be a Protestant belief that She must therefore still be ALIVE.
There's a difference between pulling facts even with omission and just being plain retarded. I would say you fit into the latter category with that ad hoc fallacy you just committed.

Besides, it was Church Teaching from ever so early that Mary was Assumed Incorrupt into Heaven.
Define "ever so early."

Its been Church History that Mary has appeared thousands of times.
Does putting "Church History" in capitals make it formal? No, it has not been documented as fact, and it has always been refuted scientifically and logically.

You ignore all these appearances -- but this is your atheistic denial of Divine Revelation. If you do not allow the Atheists to be correct about Christ being a huge deception, then why should I honor your equally galling assertion that Mary is a deception?
Because you are an ignorant, shallow and self-contrived egotist who thinks he has truth but only really has a strong lack of logic.

Mary was able to command Christ. When Christ was 12 years old She spanked his little butt and told him He was to come home and properly grow up before He would assume 'His Fathers Work'.
LOL. Where are you getting this from? Thomas? The book that was written by the Gnostics to promote their anti-Christian views and has been dismissed as heretical for the entirety of the church? That book?

Then, 18 years later, at the Wedding of Cana, Mary told him that He was finally to begin, and Christ's sarcastic reply was "Are you sure it is now my time". This implies that Christ had been exercising a strict obedience to his Mother's Command since he was 12 years old.
Nice. Too bad that's not what He said:


John 2:3-4
3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

He doesn't even address her as mother, but rather as "woman"; He is authoritatively pushy in tone to her and is very confident in His own words, and gives her very little credibility; in fact, it is apparent from the text that she doesn't even understand His purpose.

Next time you quote the NT, please quote it correctly.

But since you believe in Christ's Statement from the Cross, why do you suppose Christ DID NOT PLACE HIS MOTHER OVER HIS CHURCH, since He said so in clear enough words -- "CHURCH, THIS IS YOUR MOTHER".
You really aren't good at quoting the NT. Maybe you should read it first:

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

That disciple was John, not the church. The reason He did this? For to have John take care of His mother.

But you would rather reject Her and wait for a lieing persecuting murderer to come along who would teach you a more convenient Doctrine.

Why haven't you been banned yet?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Shaun

My point? Answer the questions.


Uhm. The beliefs held by Catholics on salvation are pretty darn well the same, and have been, for the past 1600 years.

You just like to spout off random gibberish like it's true, right?


Sure she did. Everyone dies physically, even Jesus. Jesus was raised from death, but He still died physically. Mary died physically, and is raised into Heaven just as we will be raised.


There's a difference between pulling facts even with omission and just being plain retarded. I would say you fit into the latter category with that ad hoc fallacy you just committed.


Define "ever so early."


Does putting "Church History" in capitals make it formal? No, it has not been documented as fact, and it has always been refuted scientifically and logically.


Because you are an ignorant, shallow and self-contrived egotist who thinks he has truth but only really has a strong lack of logic.


LOL. Where are you getting this from? Thomas? The book that was written by the Gnostics to promote their anti-Christian views and has been dismissed as heretical for the entirety of the church? That book?


Nice. Too bad that's not what He said:


John 2:3-4
3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

He doesn't even address her as mother, but rather as "woman"; He is authoritatively pushy in tone to her and is very confident in His own words, and gives her very little credibility; in fact, it is apparent from the text that she doesn't even understand His purpose.

Next time you quote the NT, please quote it correctly.


You really aren't good at quoting the NT. Maybe you should read it first:

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

That disciple was John, not the church. The reason He did this? For to have John take care of His mother.



Why haven't you been banned yet?

No. You need to prioritize. I look at your twenty or thirty boxes and simply conclude that you don't have the good sense to arrive at any priorities. I won't spend my weekend playing '20 Questions' because you can't see The Big Picture and get to the heart of the matter.

Rather than interrogating me, write your own essay "Why Leo is Wrong and I am Right"

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

But the Moral Teachings of Christ are understood. Unlike the 14 Letters of Paul which require so many directions of attack and so many weapons to defeat The Teachings, the Teachings themselves are relatively concise. Really, you do not have to read beyond Mathew. Christ's teachings are essentially found in the Sermon of the Mount. Then you have the Parables. Finally you have the Last Supper Talk and the Good Bye Address at the Ascention.

Perhaps I should be making quotes. I assume that Protestants don't entirely neglect the Gospels in order to ever dig into paul looking for new excuses and weapons to use against the Truth, Morality and Righteousness.

Fine. Have your own canon by Leo Volont. I love to read and learn as much as i can from our Canon, and non-canonical writings of NT times.

[theo_victis]

Leo -


wow dude, you get scarier everytime. I leave the board for a week or two and i come back to find out that i am not saved. LOL!

I also come back to find out Mary never died, Jesus wasnt perfect, and Mary was in charge of God.

Now, how stupid are these claims? Incredibly.

To imply mary spanked Jesus' bottom would mean Jesus would have to dishonor his mother and that is a sin. IF JESUS WAS A SINNER THEN CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE!!!!! However, jesus did not sin, nor did mary lead him around on a leash. Do you think God is dumb enough to put a women/human/sinner in charge???? No, Mary as well as Joseph were caretakers over Jesus.

If you honestly believe this is true then you should check in with the nearest hospital and take a little time to visit the psych ward.

You have some nerve talking about serving 2 Masters. You set Paul before Christ in all of your doctrines and then pretend to be serving Christ while tossing out His Teachings and by exclusively obeying Paul. A tad hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

You still havent answered me. Do you serve two masters? Mary and Jesus? thats what i thought.

I serve only one.

Now, consider your atheistic denial of all Modern Divine Revelation. Mary was appointed over us by God. While Christ sits at the Right Hand of God awaiting the 2nd Coming, Mary has been put in charge down here below. Everyone who has been paying attention knows that much. European Civilization -- it used to be called Christendom before the Protestant Rebellion took Christ out of it -- was founded by Mary.

LOL try telling this to a history major....... or anyone who has studied history like myself. they will more than likely respond with the following counter arguement:

LOL LOL LOL LOL HEHEHEHE OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not 'Saved'. Catholics do not teach Salvation. They teach compliance to the Teachings of Christ so that we will stand some small chance in hell of passing the Judgment.

Catholics may not speak of salvation (however, i used to be a catholic and i can assure you this is not true) Jesus however, does speak of salvation. Read the bible.

[theo_victis]

"Ancient Mystical Tradition found a way of imparting Wisdom in such a way so as not to give excessive offense to those who were being corrected, and they set up a Order of Wisemen who would so impart this Wisdom. They were Jesters. "

leo your the reason why i come on these boards... you always crack me up!!!!!!!!!!

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by theo_victis

Leo -


wow dude, you get scarier everytime. I leave the board for a week or two and i come back to find out that i am not saved. LOL!

I also come back to find out Mary never died, Jesus wasnt perfect, and Mary was in charge of God.

Now, how stupid are these claims? Incredibly.

To imply mary spanked Jesus' bottom would mean Jesus would have to dishonor his mother and that is a sin. IF JESUS WAS A SINNER THEN CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE!!!!! However, jesus did not sin, nor did mary lead him around on a leash. Do you think God is dumb enough to put a women/human/sinner in charge???? No, Mary as well as Joseph were caretakers over Jesus.

If you honestly believe this is true then you should check in with the nearest hospital and take a little time to visit the psych ward.



You still havent answered me. Do you serve two masters? Mary and Jesus? thats what i thought.

I serve only one.



LOL try telling this to a history major....... or anyone who has studied history like myself. they will more than likely respond with the following counter arguement:

LOL LOL LOL LOL HEHEHEHE OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!



Catholics may not speak of salvation (however, i used to be a catholic and i can assure you this is not true) Jesus however, does speak of salvation. Read the bible.

Dear Theo,

It is only a Protestant Doctrine that Mary is an ordinary Human. You need to ask yourself why God would be so careless as to entrust His Only Begotten Son to an ordinary woman. It makes no sense. But look at the Logic of Mary as the Immaculate Conception -- that She was the product of the Purest Possible Biological Stock AND the Holy Thing that was passed down through the Patriarchs and carried in the Arc of the Covenant. Here, we have an explanation for why it took so many generations for the advent of Mary, and then Christ -- that a very special Woman was required. Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost Seer and Visionary, once saw a large medallion that was made up representing Mary's Line of Descent all the way from Abraham. It was made to show the Line of Purity. It showed advances in Purity as well as backtracks -- where the intended Line had gone evil and the Line swung over to a Line of Cousins. It was often 'one step forward and two steps back'. Finally the Prophet Elijah took it upon himself to create a Brotherhood dedicated to the Protection of the Line. It took his Brotherhood Seven Generations to guarantee the Biological Purity of Mary's Line before the Holy Thing could be introduced and Mary Born without Sin. Doesn't this make more sense then there being 50 generations after Abraham so some ordinary sinful girl could be made Mother of God?

As for Mary telling Jesus what to do. Some things I don't have to make up. Its right there in the Bible. "Young Man, you will go home and grow up before you start with 'Your Father's Work'". and then we have Christ remembering this very speech 18 years later at the Wedding of Cana when Mary told him to begin His Ministry... "So now you say it is time". He had waited patiently all that while.

Why do you have problems believing that God would give Christ a Plausible and Authoritive Mother? It is only because Protestantism holds her as an Enemy. Get over that Bigotry and it makes all the sense in Heaven and on Earth, that God would have given Christ to the BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WOMEN. It is sheer lunacy to suppose anything different.


Now about the Two Masters. Everyone knows about Chain of Command. You serve who is placed above you. Protestants are so Arrogant that they refuse to serve -- they will serve nobody but Christ, but He isn't giving any orders, is He? Christ gave His Church to His Mother at the Crucifixion. And if you don't believe that, then believe all the Saints who have come back from Heaven to tell us so. It is convenient for Protestants who reject all Divine Revelation that has occurred since the year 50. But for people who AREN'T ATHEISTS, who do BELIEVE in DIVINE PROVIDENCE AND REVELATION -- much has happened. Much has been given down to us.

Billy Bob said it best -- that the Dispensation of Christ was actually the culmination of The Age of the Patriarchs -- what started with Adam and Eve -- the Curse -- was resolved with Christ -- in His Atonement. His Crucifixion lifted the Curse and removed the Guarding Angel from the Gate of Paradice. It did not Forgive All Sins, as we can see there is still Sin and Still Divine Wrath. Christ said that All would End within a Generation of His Crucifixion -- and it did -- The Age of the Promise to Abraham came to a close with the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. That which came next was the Age of Mary. The Bible does not speak of the Age of Mary because the Bible is only concerned with the Age of the Patriarches and the Childcren of Abraham. The Bible of the Age of Mary has not been written yet.

Anyway, until the Second Coming of Christ, al the Saints have made it quite clear who's in charge. Mary is Queen of Heaven and of all the Angels. She is Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Grace, and Advocate. It is She who will defeat Satan on the Field of Battle.

There is one thing that troubles me -- Christ came to End an Age. Mary will Defeat Satan and then Her Age will come to an End, and then She will have some time to relax. For 2000 years She has been Lady of Sorrows. That must get old after awhile. Some recent Prophecy shows Our Lady soon saying Her Goodbyes, and leaving a Lifted Up Humanity in the Hands of the Holy Spirit. The Next Age, soon to come, will be the Age of the Holy Spirit. Maybe just 8 years off.

[Melody]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Dear Theo,

It is only a Protestant Doctrine that Mary is an ordinary Human. You need to ask yourself why God would be so careless as to entrust His Only Begotten Son to an ordinary woman. It makes no sense. But look at the Logic of Mary as the Immaculate Conception -- that She was the product of the Purest Possible Biological Stock AND the Holy Thing that was passed down through the Patriarchs and carried in the Arc of the Covenant. Here, we have an explanation for why it took so many generations for the advent of Mary, and then Christ -- that a very special Woman was required. Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost Seer and Visionary, once saw a large medallion that was made up representing Mary's Line of Descent all the way from Abraham. It was made to show the Line of Purity. It showed advances in Purity as well as backtracks -- where the intended Line had gone evil and the Line swung over to a Line of Cousins. It was often 'one step forward and two steps back'. Finally the Prophet Elijah took it upon himself to create a Brotherhood dedicated to the Protection of the Line. It took his Brotherhood Seven Generations to guarantee the Biological Purity of Mary's Line before the Holy Thing could be introduced and Mary Born without Sin. Doesn't this make more sense then there being 50 generations after Abraham so some ordinary sinful girl could be made Mother of God?

As for Mary telling Jesus what to do. Some things I don't have to make up. Its right there in the Bible. "Young Man, you will go home and grow up before you start with 'Your Father's Work'". and then we have Christ remembering this very speech 18 years later at the Wedding of Cana when Mary told him to begin His Ministry... "So now you say it is time". He had waited patiently all that while.

Why do you have problems believing that God would give Christ a Plausible and Authoritive Mother? It is only because Protestantism holds her as an Enemy. Get over that Bigotry and it makes all the sense in Heaven and on Earth, that God would have given Christ to the BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WOMEN. It is sheer lunacy to suppose anything different.


Now about the Two Masters. Everyone knows about Chain of Command. You serve who is placed above you. Protestants are so Arrogant that they refuse to serve -- they will serve nobody but Christ, but He isn't giving any orders, is He? Christ gave His Church to His Mother at the Crucifixion. And if you don't believe that, then believe all the Saints who have come back from Heaven to tell us so. It is convenient for Protestants who reject all Divine Revelation that has occurred since the year 50. But for people who AREN'T ATHEISTS, who do BELIEVE in DIVINE PROVIDENCE AND REVELATION -- much has happened. Much has been given down to us.

Billy Bob said it best -- that the Dispensation of Christ was actually the culmination of The Age of the Patriarchs -- what started with Adam and Eve -- the Curse -- was resolved with Christ -- in His Atonement. His Crucifixion lifted the Curse and removed the Guarding Angel from the Gate of Paradice. It did not Forgive All Sins, as we can see there is still Sin and Still Divine Wrath. Christ said that All would End within a Generation of His Crucifixion -- and it did -- The Age of the Promise to Abraham came to a close with the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. That which came next was the Age of Mary. The Bible does not speak of the Age of Mary because the Bible is only concerned with the Age of the Patriarches and the Childcren of Abraham. The Bible of the Age of Mary has not been written yet.

Anyway, until the Second Coming of Christ, al the Saints have made it quite clear who's in charge. Mary is Queen of Heaven and of all the Angels. She is Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Grace, and Advocate. It is She who will defeat Satan on the Field of Battle.

There is one thing that troubles me -- Christ came to End an Age. Mary will Defeat Satan and then Her Age will come to an End, and then She will have some time to relax. For 2000 years She has been Lady of Sorrows. That must get old after awhile. Some recent Prophecy shows Our Lady soon saying Her Goodbyes, and leaving a Lifted Up Humanity in the Hands of the Holy Spirit. The Next Age, soon to come, will be the Age of the Holy Spirit. Maybe just 8 years off.




Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[Jauchzer]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

Ancient Mystical Tradition found a way of imparting Wisdom in such a way so as not to give excessive offense to those who were being corrected, and they set up a Order of Wisemen who would so impart this Wisdom. They were Jesters.

In other words, Leo is a Jester. AKA fool. And not in the Pauline sense, as a fool for the Lord. Just a plain old garden-variety fool.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Jauchzer

In other words, Leo is a Jester. AKA fool. And not in the Pauline sense, as a fool for the Lord. Just a plain old garden-variety fool.

When did Paul ever make a joke? Unless you think murdering people is funny.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I think Leo should be banned. He actually states that his "angels" are talking to him, while he posts. His satanically guided ways should not be allowed here. It is an affront to God, who this site is about.

Abraham was Chosen for his Hospitality. You're wishing to have me banned because I quote the Warnings of Christ -- not very hospitable is it?

Everything I say has Scripture support or is supported by Divine Revelation. You are irked because I am pointing out that YOU are all under the Sway of Satan -- Paul, whom Christ clearly warned us about. Simeon warned us about. You see, you can't ban me, because my Point most certainly may be valid. Christ speaks for me. Paul only speaks for Himself.

You wish me banned so you don't have to contemplate the cogent reasoning that you have been manipulated and seduced by Satan. So it is Leo, who ever and only Preaches an Unmitigated Righteousness and Judgment by Moral Criteria, that is Satanic. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! YOU are the one with the Doctrine that allows for FREE SIN. SO, how can you see it is ME who is Satanic.

Ban yourself, if you want to do something positive.

[Frank Ernest]

No, Leo, very little of what you say has any scriptural support. You have misconstrued Simeon's prophecy. Divine revelation seems to be whatever you say it is and is not supported by scripture either.

"Moral Criteria" is defined only by Leo. There isn't any reconciliation between what you are preaching and what God says in scrupture. Your elevation of Mary has absolutely no basis in scripture. Your own prophecies concerning the end times have no basis in anything but your imagination as far as I can tell.

There is no cogent reasoning involved here. You are preaching the doctrine of Leo and only the doctrine of Leo.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

No, Leo, very little of what you say has any scriptural support. You have misconstrued Simeon's prophecy. Divine revelation seems to be whatever you say it is and is not supported by scripture either.

"Moral Criteria" is defined only by Leo. There isn't any reconciliation between what you are preaching and what God says in scrupture. Your elevation of Mary has absolutely no basis in scripture. Your own prophecies concerning the end times have no basis in anything but your imagination as far as I can tell.

There is no cogent reasoning involved here. You are preaching the doctrine of Leo and only the doctrine of Leo.

Frank, read the Gospels. Or at least read the Chapters from Mathew on the Sermon of the Mount. Moral Criteria.

As for my rendering of the Prophecy of Simeon -- my interpretation is the only interpretation that ever bothered to put actual Meaning into the Prophecy. Since the Prophecy is warning of paul and Protestantism, the Paulists and the Protestants have decidedly obscured it. To admit to its true meaning is to suddenly see the Truth and abandon their Satanism -- which would be a Good thing, for sure, but I understand that people are EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in their Membership Organizations -- 'better the devil they know' kind of thing. So I could understand why people would blink at Simeon's Prophecies that 1) Christ's Teachings would be Hijacked, and 2) That Mary's Heart would be stabbed by a Campaign of Insult and that we would know the Right from the Wrong depending on whether they were For or Against Mary. See -- useful information from Prophecy. But all other renderings of Simeon's Prophecy reduces it to meaningless trivia... which, again, is how protestants would prefer it.

[Frank Ernest]

Leo, no, you can't take a simple, clear prophecy and make it into something it definitely isn't. It has plenty of meaning without your take on it. There is no prediction of Christ's teachings being hijacked, and no "warning" about either Paul or Protestants.

If you're seriously suggesting that right and wrong are determined by being for or against Mary, then you're way off base studying the Sermon on the Mount which contains no reference to Mary.

Try again.

[Aimiel]

Nowhere in the scriptures are we taught to pray to someone other than God, and we are warned about seeking to contact the dead, which is witchcraft, clearly demonstrated by the story of Saul, seeking to speak to Samuel, after he had died. People who seek apparations are looking for physical manifestations which can be found (whether real or halucinatory) only coming from Satan, or one's own mind.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

Leo, no, you can't take a simple, clear prophecy and make it into something it definitely isn't. It has plenty of meaning without your take on it. There is no prediction of Christ's teachings being hijacked, and no "warning" about either Paul or Protestants.

If you're seriously suggesting that right and wrong are determined by being for or against Mary, then you're way off base studying the Sermon on the Mount which contains no reference to Mary.

Try again.

Dear Frank,

You talk about 'simple and clear' prophecy but you render its meaning into vapid nothingness that reflects upon nothing that actually happened or subsequently means anything. I look at the Prophecy as though it actually predicted the Future, and you don't like it.

Frank, you need to think harder and dodge less.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Aimiel

Nowhere in the scriptures are we taught to pray to someone other than God, and we are warned about seeking to contact the dead, which is witchcraft, clearly demonstrated by the story of Saul, seeking to speak to Samuel, after he had died. People who seek apparations are looking for physical manifestations which can be found (whether real or halucinatory) only coming from Satan, or one's own mind.



So, who do you think you are praying too. The Earth is not Heaven. You are not in the Presence of God. In your Arrogance you may assume that you have the Ear of God into which you may whisper, but it is pretence and delusion. When has God ever chosen to listen to your prayers. 'Never' would be the right answer to that, huh?

God's Providence on Earth is constrained by Spiritual Law. God can only provide Providence in some proportion to Sacrifice and Penance -- Miracles must be paid for. And Providence comes through the Agency of Angels or Saints.

What you have is Belief based on High Minded Doctrine. But if you look at Religion empirically -- look at your own Scriptures -- you will find that I am correct. If you want to Pray to God, then decide what your Prayer is, and then find a Messenger who will deliver it. No, talking and thinking to yourself is not Prayer -- it is talking and thinking to yourself. You are not God, and so that does not count as Prayer.

Of course, there ARE Mystics, but these Mystics are probably included in you wide list of condemned activities. Paul made sure that most everything with an actual tinge of True Religion would be condemned under some heading. Mystics are able to discern Spiritual Reality and so can see the Angels and they CAN pass on messages to God, or those placed in Authority by God. It is strange that these Protestants who bow down to a thousand worldly bosses, demand that in the Spiritual Realm that they must be Co-Equal to God Himself.

In some Visions I have had, I have been counseled by the Prophet Elijah. In others I have been addressed by a Great Angel whom it was impossible to stand before -- in the presence of This Angel your knees automatically go out from under you. And it never occured to me, like it does to Amiel, that these Spiritual Denizens of Heaven are not good enough for me. It is odd how Protestants pay lip service to the virtue of Humility, but everything in the Universe, besides God is necessarily beneath their dignity. It makes me wonder that they, like Lucifer, having a problem thinking anybody or anything else their equal, would not also suppose God not good enough, for them, also.

[Frank Ernest]

Leo phases in:

"Dear Frank,

You talk about 'simple and clear' prophecy but you render its meaning into vapid nothingness that reflects upon nothing that actually happened or subsequently means anything. I look at the Prophecy as though it actually predicted the Future, and you don't like it.

Frank, you need to think harder and dodge less."

FrankiE saith:

Dodge what, Leo? Your theological marshmallow bullets? Prophecy is what it is -- clear, concise, specific. It doesn't matter how one "looks" at it or how one would like to spin it to conform to some self-indulgent made-up future.

God is apparently not good enough for you either, since you rely on visions, stories about saints, angelic apparitions and Mary.

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
So, who do you think you are praying too. The Earth is not Heaven. You are not in the Presence of God. In your Arrogance you may assume that you have the Ear of God into which you may whisper, but it is pretence and delusion. When has God ever chosen to listen to your prayers. 'Never' would be the right answer to that, huh?I have seen many prayers answered, some of them before I even prayed, many instantly. I pray to The Father, in Jesus' Name, as He taught me. If you want to Pray to God, then decide what your Prayer is, and then find a Messenger who will deliver it. So, the god you serve is not able to hear and answer prayer directly?
Of course, there ARE Mystics, but these Mystics are probably included in you wide list of condemned activities.Yes, because that is witchcraft.In some Visions I have had, I have been counseled by the Prophet Elijah.It was a demon, pretending to be Elijah.In others I have been addressed by a Great Angel whom it was impossible to stand before -- in the presence of This Angel your knees automatically go out from under you.Sounds like a controlling spirit, which is not from God. The Lord allows His People the freedom to bow their knees willingly.And it never occured to me, like it does to Amiel, that these Spiritual Denizens of Heaven are not good enough for me.Because you have fallen for their masquarade, they are going about as 'angels of light,' and you are decieved by them. :devil:

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

God is apparently not good enough for you either, since you rely on visions, stories about saints, angelic apparitions and Mary.

That proves that I HAVE a God. Where is your proof?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Aimiel

I have seen many prayers answered, some of them before I even prayed, many instantly. I pray to The Father, in Jesus' Name, as He taught me. So, the god you serve is not able to hear and answer prayer directly?Yes, because that is witchcraft.It was a demon, pretending to be Elijah.Sounds like a controlling spirit, which is not from God. The Lord allows His People the freedom to bow their knees willingly.Because you have fallen for their masquarade, they are going about as 'angels of light,' and you are decieved by them. :devil:

You should read Dostoyevsky. "The Brothers Karmavov" is good. He