Yet Another Thread on "The Passion"

[Kiwicottonball]

Forgive me if this has all been discussed before, but I'm fairly new here...

I went to see the movie "The Passion of the Christ" this weekend...I had been looking forward to it for a while. Anyway, I saw the film and thought it was fantastic. It was gory, violent, disturbing and made me distraught, but I thought it was a wonderful movie. I left the theatre eager to talk about it and ponder on it.

So I'd like to know what you all think of the film. CHristians and non-Christians alike...what did you think? Any favorite parts? Least favorite? Parts that moved you espescially? Parts you thought were terribly incorrect? Sorry for being a bit excited - I was just so glad to see someone make a movie like it.

[Crow]

I thought the some of the symbolism used detracted somewhat, but all in all it was an excellent film. So often we talk about the sacrifice Christ made so that we may come to a restored relationship with God but I think we rarely consider the magnitude of the price He paid so that we may be saved.

I liked the part of the flashback of Christ before His ministry started, when He was showing His mother a table the best, even though it had little to do with the main theme of the film. I know there's no Biblical verse to show that this exact scene happened, but I liked it. Jesus had a life prior to His mission and it was nice to see a glimpse of what it might have been like.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Kiwicottonball
So I'd like to know what you all think of the film. It wasn't as good as the book. ;) :chuckle:

I thought the movie was excellent.

[Kiwicottonball]

I liked the scene with Jesus and Mary at the table, too. That was lovely...I espescially loved the way those flashback scenes were shot...everything looks so bright and happy.

The part that tore me up was when Jesus has started to carry the cross and Mary begins to have the flashback of him as a boy, and he falls (both in the flashback and real time) and she begins to run towards him...when she said "I am here" I started bawling...I think it's because it makes you realize he was a man, too, who had a Mother. And he is still her baby.

I'm a sap!

[Leo Volont]

I like the Veronica Scene in which she walks straight through the riot obvious to everything but Christ and all the mayhem and destruction swirl around her without touching her.

For the longest time History kept track of Veronica's Handkerchief -- Christ wiping his Face upon it had imprinted an Exact Portrait in Blood. It was a Miraculous Relic and was used for Healings. But eventually we stopped hearing about it. It is probably now in some rich family's private collection ... "Over here is the priceless Statue of Buddha which we stole from the People of Burma, and.. come this way... Oh, you will LOVE This!... it is Veronica's Handkerchief -- you can still see the Blood!"

[Ya'nar#1]

All-in-all it was an excellent depiction of Christ's suffering and death--which was the point of Mel's story.

I especially liked the parts that were true to scripture, like Christ's stepping on the snake's head, and the Last Supper scene. The brutality was horrible--but we should remember it was even more horrible in reality, for Jesus was scourged twice. But finally we have a film that approaches the reality.

Some of the Catholic nonsense I could have done without.

--Ya'nar

[Kronus]

Three comments:

A. I think it was very well done.

B. I think people come out with what they went in with: scepticism for the sceptics, antisemitism for those seeking it, belief for those who believe.

C. Regarding the quote violence unquote, something tells me the real experience was worse for the Lord than what was depicted on the screen. And that, my friends, is something to think about.

[PureX]

I haven't seen it yet. And I was not intending to because I've heard that it's all about the "sacrifice" (suffering) and I don't buy into the whole 'blood bribe to God for the forgiveness of our sins' stuff. And I figured it would be just more religious propaganda.

But a friend of mine went to see it recently, and she said that what really struck her was the compassion and forgiveness on the part of Jesus even in spite of the way he was being treated. And this is more the portrait Jesus that I would be inclined to appreciate. So maybe I will go see the movie after all.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Leo Volont

I like the Veronica Scene in which she walks straight through the riot obvious to everything but Christ and all the mayhem and destruction swirl around her without touching her.

For the longest time History kept track of Veronica's Handkerchief -- Christ wiping his Face upon it had imprinted an Exact Portrait in Blood. It was a Miraculous Relic and was used for Healings. But eventually we stopped hearing about it. It is probably now in some rich family's private collection ... "Over here is the priceless Statue of Buddha which we stole from the People of Burma, and.. come this way... Oh, you will LOVE This!... it is Veronica's Handkerchief -- you can still see the Blood!"

Here's one thing on which Leo and I actually agree: I tend to believe that the handkerchief (and very likely the Shroud of Turin) are authentic.

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Knight

It wasn't as good as the book. ;) :chuckle:

You actually read Emmerich's book, the one the movie is based on?

I'm surprised, Knight. I never took you for a "closet Catholic."
:chuckle:

[Knight]

Originally posted by Zakath

You actually read Emmerich's book, the one the movie is based on?

I'm surprised, Knight. I never took you for a "closet Catholic."
:chuckle: No silly.... the Bible!

I realize they say the movie is based on Emmerich's book but you would never know that watching the movie.

And even if it is based on Emmerich's book... then clearly Emmerich's book is based on the Bible as the movie very closely follows the Bible.

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Leo Volont
For the longest time History kept track of Veronica's Handkerchief -- Christ wiping his Face upon it had imprinted an Exact Portrait in Blood. It was a Miraculous Relic and was used for Healings. But eventually we stopped hearing about it. It is probably now in some rich family's private collection ... "Over here is the priceless Statue of Buddha which we stole from the People of Burma, and.. come this way... Oh, you will LOVE This!... it is Veronica's Handkerchief -- you can still see the Blood!"

Veronica's veil (not a handkerchief) is allegedly in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. There is a statue of Veronica beside the main altar and a Latin inscription desribing the veil as being preserved within.

Of course the whole Veronica story is from another apochryphal book, The Acts of Pilate (dating from around 6th century CE), and thus did not make it into the Christian Bible, the content of which was pretty much finalized about 300 years earlier.

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Kronus

C. Regarding the quote violence unquote, something tells me the real experience was worse for the Lord than what was depicted on the screen. And that, my friends, is something to think about.

I think you are probably right, which makes it all more difficult to watch the film. But it's a good kind of difficult.

As for it being a little too Catholic (someone else's comment), I sort of expected that. Mel Gibson is a fervent Catholic and he financed it with his own money. So naturally it would reflect his views, his "take" on things. I don't mind most aspects of Catholocism so it didn't bother me that much. I am just glad it was made.

A question: I never saw or read anything about a release party...you know how all films have the big premiere of their movies where they dress up and walk down the red carpet and congratulate themselves on being amazing filmakers and actors...did "The Passion" even have a premiere? I never heard anything about it and it would have been fitting not to. Just curious, wanted to make sure before I go praising them for it!

[Granite]

I don't believe it did.

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Knight

No silly.... the Bible!

I realize they say the movie is based on Emmerich's book but you would never know that watching the movie.How would you know that, if you'd never read the book. :think:

And even if it is based on Emmerich's book... then clearly Emmerich's book is based on the Bible as the movie very closely follows the Bible. Emmerich's book is not based on the bible, it is her record of a series of ecstatic visions she claims to have had relating to the events surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus.

Do try to keep up, old boy. :D

[Sozo]

Mel Gibson told Christianity Today: "I've been actually amazed at the way I would say the evangelical audience has--hands down--responded to this film more than any other Christian group." What makes it so amazing, he says, "is that the film is so Marian."

Gibson knows that Protestants don't regard Mary in the way Catholics do. And Gibson goes beyond many Catholics when he calls her "a tremendous co-redemptrix and mediatrix."

[Granite]

I can see how one might call the film "Marian" but I didn't find it to be overt or in-your-face.

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by granite1010

I can see how one might call the film "Marian" but I didn't find it to be overt or in-your-face.

I didn't either. In fact, I thought it was wonderful. It was some of her scenes that moved me the most, which surprised me.

[Sozo]

Blind people see what they want to see.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Sozo

Blind people see what they want to see. Aint THAT the truth!

How anyone could think that movie was overly "Catholic" is beyond me.

[Granite]

The emphasis was on Mary's suffering; you certainly never got the idea (Gibson's beliefs notwithstanding) in the film that she's somehow a mediatrix.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Zakath

How would you know that, if you'd never read the book. :think:I have read the Bible therefore I know the movie follows the Bible. :dunce:

Emmerich's book is not based on the bible, it is her record of a series of ecstatic visions she claims to have had relating to the events surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus.

Do try to keep up, old boy. :D Have you seen "The Passion"?

It doesn't sound as if you have.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Knight

How anyone could think that movie was overly "Catholic" is beyond me.

What does Gibson know about his own film?

We all know that Mary really did tell Jesus that she wanted to die with Him.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

What does Gibson know about his own film?

We all know that Mary really did tell Jesus that she wanted to die with Him.

Gibson never made any bones about using various sources, including scripture and Emmerich's work, for inspiration.

[Sozo]

The movie is an idol, endorsed by idolators.

[Kronus]

Originally posted by Sozo

Blind people see what they want to see.

And some people are deaf even though their ears and hearing are fully functional.

Just like some who can't see the forest for the trees.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Sozo

The movie is an idol, endorsed by idolators. LOL.... :rolleyes:

I am not gonna talk anyone into liking any movie.

To each their own I say.

But Sozo, your hyper legalism surrounding this movie is a bit alarming.

[Kevin]

I thought the movie was great, despite its minor inaccuracies. Mel did a great job of depicting the misery and suffering that our Lord (yes Zakath, yours too. One way or the other, you'll come to recognize that, I just hope it's while you are still on this earth. :) ) went through.

There are a couple of issues about the film that I didn't like:

Due to the anti-semitic garbage, Mel took out the line about Jesus's blood being on the heads of the Jews and on their children (when Pilate washed his hands of the condemnamtion of Christ). Why take it out... it certainly didn't make the movie any less contraversial... and it's a Biblical quote!

At the end of the movie, after Christ died and the earthquake happened, Mel left out a POWERFUL Biblical line: "Truly, this was the Son of God!" said by the centurian after seeing the signs that followed the death of Christ.

But over all, a GREAT film. America, and the rest of the world, needs films like this... badly.

I heard this morning on the radio that Mel was going to use the proceeds from "The Passion" to make another movie called "The Ressurection" and also use the money to make a film studio that caters to religious-based films so they don't have to put up with Holywood! Go Mel!

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Knight

But Sozo, your hyper legalism surrounding this movie is a bit alarming.

You took the words out of my mouth. I never seen so many people make such a big deal out of a fictional movie in my life. I have every right to speak out against the most outlandish claims "Christians" are making about this film, when God clearly had nothing to do with it. People who are offended because I know that God is not involved, are the ones with the problem.

You statement of me being legalistic is like the Pharisees saying the same thing to Paul.

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Sozo
People who are offended because I know that God is not involved, are the ones with the problem.


I'm not offended by that at all. I asked for opinions on the film...

I am wondering if God told you that he wasn't involved before or after you saw the film?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Kiwicottonball

I'm not offended by that at all. I asked for opinions on the film...

I am wondering if God told you that he wasn't involved before or after you saw the film?

God didn't tell me either way, but God does not do things that go against what He has already revealed.

That's why we know that He is against homosexuality, and why you embrace it.

[Kronus]

Originally posted by Sozo
I never seen so many people make such a big deal out of a fictional movie in my life. I have every right to speak out against the most outlandish claims "Christians" are making about this film, when God clearly had nothing to do with it. People who are offended because I know that God is not involved, are the ones with the problem.


Two questions, Sozo, if you will:

1. Are your statements above also applicable to The Lord Of The Rings trilogy or The Matrix series?

2. And would you tell us how many times you saw either of those groups of films?

Be honest, now.

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Sozo
That's why we know that He is against homosexuality, and why you embrace it.


Hmmm...for whatever reasons I "embrace" homosexuality has nothing to do with why God didn't direct "The Passion". But okay.

I will just leave it at that...I don't see how the film really "goes against" God, but perhaps I am failing to see something. Fair enough.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Kronus

Two questions, Sozo, if you will:

1. Are your statements above also applicable to The Lord Of The Rings trilogy or The Matrix series?

2. And would you tell us how many times you saw either of those groups of films?

Be honest, now.

You are misunderstanding me. I don't care if people liked the film, for the sake of liking it. I thought it was an excellent movie, but I do not worship it. It is not to be endorsed as some sort of live action "tract" to share with the world.

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Sozo

You are misunderstanding me. I don't care if people liked the film, for the sake of liking it. I thought it was an excellent movie, but I do not worship it. It is not to be endorsed as some sort of live action "tract" to share with the world.


If someone is "worshiping" the movie, then you are right, it is an idol.

But how many people do you think could be said to be worshiping the movie?

And does something have to be 100% divinely inspired for God to use it for His purposes?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by philosophizer


And does something have to be 100% divinely inspired for God to use it for His purposes?

God uses evil for His purposes, so I guess not.But how many people do you think could be said to be worshiping the movie? One too many.

[Kronus]

Originally posted by Sozo

You are misunderstanding me. I don't care if people liked the film, for the sake of liking it. I thought it was an excellent movie, but I do not worship it. It is not to be endorsed as some sort of live action "tract" to share with the world.

I appreciate you clarifying that for me, and I understand, respect and agree with your position.

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Sozo

One too many.


Who do you mean? Someone on the board?

[OO-tawn]

Just thought that I would chime in!

I liked the movie, and overall I thought that it is a good opportunity for many to learn what they may or may not understand yet.

That being said, I had some problems with it, but none that I think are too problematic (well, maybe a couple).

I did not mind the Mary stuff, after all, she was there and most of what the film portrayed about her was nothing more than just her anguish. No one can argue about the fact that she did feel anguish!

Probably the only overt statements referring to the possible Marian understanding of Mary was when she indicated her resignation for the fate of her son (I personally believe that she did not understand what was really going on any more than the disciples did) and Jesus' calling to God about being the son of His "handmaid," (a reference merely to Mary's statement to Gabriel upon finding out that she was to be the mother of the Messiah). I would not have included these parts myself, but they are not too different than the other Catholic stuff that I have seen in other movies about Jesus.

I think that I would have included a flashback scene of when Jesus declared to the priests that their "house is left unto [them] desolate" when the earthquake happened at Jesus' death; and I would have followed it up with a scene of the very heavy veil being rent in two (a scene very significant to the fulfillment of the Sacrifice and of God leaving the Hebrew nation).

Of course, until I get a whole lot of money, I can't make a movie of my own :D

Anyway, what ever other references to Emmerich's book there may have been are excusable to me, after all, everyone knows that a movie is not a real source of Truth anyway.

The only purpose that this movie really has is to reach out to those who seek Truth, but not to be all-instructive, that is for the Bible :thumb:

Another thing that I would have liked to see in the movie was more stuff relating to the Resurrection and details following the Crucifixion and Resurrection until Jesus' ascended among His disciples (that, however, would have been a 5 hour movie at least).

Not having important lines (the blood being on the heads of the Jews and the centurion exclaiming Jesus' divinity at the cross) is also something a bit tragic, given all of the unbiblical additions there were.

I could go on, but my point is that even though the movie tended to stray in the Catholic direction, it remained true enough to reality that I would recommend it to any who have not seen it. The demonstration of Jesus' compassion for us all more than makes up for the nuances IMHO

I'll leave now, midramble :o

Your brother,

OO-tawn

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Sozo

Blind people see what they want to see. Last time I checked, blind people don't see what they want to see. That's the definition of being blind... :doh:

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Knight

I have read the Bible therefore I know the movie follows the Bible. So do parts of the Book of Mormon. Your point?

Have you seen "The Passion"?

It doesn't sound as if you have. Not yet. I'm scheduled to go with my wife and her very Catholic sister this weekend. (The things I do for my family! :rolleyes: )

I promised to do my best not to make any untoward comments out loud. :)

[Lovejoy]

Originally posted by Sozo

You are misunderstanding me. I don't care if people liked the film, for the sake of liking it. I thought it was an excellent movie, but I do not worship it. It is not to be endorsed as some sort of live action "tract" to share with the world.

Hey Sozo! Sorry I have not been around for awhile, but life has been a trial and a half for my family lately. And that is beside the fact that this if finals week for my winter quarter. Anyway, I just thought that I would chime in on this topic. I have been virtually shunned (not really) by my mini-church for my opinion on this movie! I walked away worried that people (being the way that they are these days) will take every piece of this movie to heart like Scripture. So many people are using as an evangelical tool without taking the time to see that it is not nearly enough to carry a new believer. Worse, it is a stylized, artisitic interpretation of Gospel. It was really such a muddle of Scripture and Emmerich (which I have read recently just to figure out what was going on) that I was distracted while seeing the film, and eventually offended by the liberties taken in it. What I was not, unfortunately, was particularly moved by it. If I had gone to it just to see a movie, I would have been grossed out. Going to see for a spiritual experience, I was dissapointed. The Christ in my heart is so much more real than the Christ that was on the screen!

Mostly, I just think people are excited that "we" finally get a big movie. I just hope that we all remember to read the Bibles afterward and help new believers to understand the Gospel account, rather than Mel's.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Lovejoy

The Christ in my heart is so much more real than the Christ that was on the screen!


:BRAVO: Mostly, I just think people are excited that "we" finally get a big movie. I just hope that we all remember to read the Bibles afterward and help new believers to understand the Gospel account, rather than Mel's.

Well said!

You have been missed, and it is a joy to hear some sanity around here. I hope it continues!

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Lovejoy

Hey Sozo! Sorry I have not been around for awhile, but life has been a trial and a half for my family lately. And that is beside the fact that this if finals week for my winter quarter. Anyway, I just thought that I would chime in on this topic. I have been virtually shunned (not really) by my mini-church for my opinion on this movie! I walked away worried that people (being the way that they are these days) will take every piece of this movie to heart like Scripture. So many people are using as an evangelical tool without taking the time to see that it is not nearly enough to carry a new believer. Worse, it is a stylized, artisitic interpretation of Gospel. It was really such a muddle of Scripture and Emmerich (which I have read recently just to figure out what was going on) that I was distracted while seeing the film, and eventually offended by the liberties taken in it. What I was not, unfortunately, was particularly moved by it. If I had gone to it just to see a movie, I would have been grossed out. Going to see for a spiritual experience, I was dissapointed. The Christ in my heart is so much more real than the Christ that was on the screen!

Mostly, I just think people are excited that "we" finally get a big movie. I just hope that we all remember to read the Bibles afterward and help new believers to understand the Gospel account, rather than Mel's.

Here, here! :thumb:

[Zakath]

Originally posted by wholearmor

Here, here! :thumb: Where? Where? :chuckle:

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Zakath

Where? Where? :chuckle:


Muhahahahahahahaha! :bannana:

Zakath, I think I like your posts too much. After all, I consider myself a Christian, and you're the resident athiest, which means you are wholly evil. Oh dear. :doh:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Zakath

Where? Where? :chuckle:

There, There! :D

[Zakath]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha. :devil:

It's all part of my plan, my dear Kiwi.

My plan to reach 8,000 posts. :chuckle:

Only three more to go! :thumb:

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Zakath

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha. :devil:

It's all part of my plan, my dear Kiwi.

My plan to reach 8,000 posts. :chuckle:

Only three more to go! :thumb: I take issue with you using me for these purposes...

[Zakath]

Feeling used, eh?

Get used to it. This is a religious web forum. :chuckle:

[Kiwicottonball]

Originally posted by Zakath

Feeling used, eh?

Get used to it. This is a religious web forum. :chuckle:

I am beginning to realize that...

I mistakenly thought I had stumbled onto the GLADD website...

:help:

[Mal'aki]

K well, I thought the movie was really good. The saddest parts were the flashbacks, but only the ones that happend at the last supper, and the one where Jesus said to love your enemies. It was good to slip those in, especially the one where He said that He lays down His life for His sheep.
Now that I think about it the movie was actually kinda Marian or whatever, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference.
I was really really choked that the rooster didn't crow.

Hey, can anyone tell me what the huge baby with the scarred back that looked like an old man was supposed to be?

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Mal'aki
Hey, can anyone tell me what the huge baby with the scarred back that looked like an old man was supposed to be?

Yeah, I thought Mickey Rooney really pulled that part off well. :thumb: