It's All Buddha

[wickwoman]

You’ve heard the saying: “it’s all good.” There are things that happen to us and we judge them constantly as good or bad. The first key: they do not happen TO us, they just happen. The second key: they are neither good nor bad, they just are.

This is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

It’s about living without resistance to what comes along, surrendering to our lives with appreciation for things as they are, appreciating every moment as part of a the greater whole that is our life.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God.

[Poly]

Peace, love and joy, man! :vomit:

Wickwoman, you might want to lay off the mushrooms.

[beanieboy]

You da bomb, girl!

If a christian mocks you for love, peace and joy, rejoice in that.

The thing that I learned when studying Buddhism is that those who you see as your enemy actually make you learn the most - force you to be patient, to return evil with kindness, to be humble, to let go of anger. Instead of carrying burdens, I was thankful for another challenge and opportunity to grow.

Thanks for the cool post.

[Dread Helm]

It's all, like, good wicky! Like, Peace out dude, I think i'm gonna, like, fall over from that overdose, dude! But Listen to this dude, it's like all profound, dude... :rolleyes:

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by wickwoman

You’ve heard the saying: “it’s all good.” There are things that happen to us and we judge them constantly as good or bad. The first key: they do not happen TO us, they just happen. The second key: they are neither good nor bad, they just are.

This is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

It’s about living without resistance to what comes along, surrendering to our lives with appreciation for things as they are, appreciating every moment as part of a the greater whole that is our life.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God.

Wickwoman, so it seems to me, that whatever happens, you just go alone with it. Am I correct?

Well, I'm not going to let homo's into my house. I'm not about to let homo's talk to my siblings. I'm not about to let a druggie offer them drugs, and I'm not about to support putting them in a corrupt school.

I am going to resist, and I'm going to fight really hard to keep my siblings away from is evil!

[beanieboy]

Why are christians such unhappy, angry people?

[Dread Helm]

It's not really true it's just when we're talking about Current Events and stuff, the worlds evil and we don't like it! :rolleyes:

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Why are christians such unhappy, angry people?

I'm angry because there shouldn't be such thing as homo's... but there is. I'm angry because there shouldn't be such thing as sexual intercourse out of marriage... but there is. God abhors these sins, and I abhor them also.

[beanieboy]

I didn't realize that you were God.
Unhappy and angry God.

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

I didn't realize that you were God.
Unhappy and angry God.

Please explain where you got the idea that I was God?

[beanieboy]

Are you angry at yourself?
You are a sinner, too, you know.

[PureX]

Originally posted by wickwoman

You’ve heard the saying: “it’s all good.” There are things that happen to us and we judge them constantly as good or bad. The first key: they do not happen TO us, they just happen. The second key: they are neither good nor bad, they just are.

This is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

It’s about living without resistance to what comes along, surrendering to our lives with appreciation for things as they are, appreciating every moment as part of a the greater whole that is our life.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God. Excellent post! Thanks!

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Are you angry at yourself?
You are a sinner, too, you know.

No... I'm not angry at myself... should I be?

Yes, I know I'm a sinner. And I'm trying to put away by sinnful ways, and take after Jesus.

[Balder]

Just don't tell the cranky old Zen masters that it's all Buddha. Whenever they see the Buddha on the road, they want to kill him. If everything is Buddha, we'd have quite a mess...




Just kiddin', wick!

Thanks for shedding a little radiance in here!



Peace out the revolution,

Balder

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

No... I'm not angry at myself... should I be?

Yes, I know I'm a sinner. And I'm trying to put away by sinnful ways, and take after Jesus.

I see.
So you are angry at OTHER sinners.
But are more forgiving of yourself.

[On Fire]

Could someone please start a forum at www.ifitfeelsgooddoit.com for these dim wits?

[beanieboy]

You know, the whole idea of "if it feels good, do it" makes a lot of sense.

For example, I love smoking. I like the way it feels. But does it "feel good"? No. Whenever I smoke, I think about the fact that what stays on filter is a lot like what stays on my lungs. I have a harder time breathing the more I do it. And the whole time, I think, I should really stop this.

So, following the "feels good" formula, I know that I need to stop, because it doesn't feel good internally.

If right and wrong are written on your heart, it won't feel good.

[On Fire]

Because you are lord of over beanieboy.

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Are you angry at yourself?
You are a sinner, too, you know.

Actually when your a Christian God blots out your sins, and covers it with "CHRISTIAN" so even if you sin, youre no longer a "Sinner".

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Actually when your a Christian God blots out your sins, and covers it with "CHRISTIAN" so even if you sin, youre no longer a "Sinner".

There is a parable about a man that owed a huge debt.
He was forgiven the debt, and went on his way.
He then came to another man who owed him a small debt. He refused to forgive the debt.
When the first man found this out, he said, "I forgave you a large debt, and you cannot forgive the small debt in another. So because you have not forgiven the small debt, I will not forgive your large debt."

What does that mean, exactly?

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

I see.
So you are angry at OTHER sinners.
But are more forgiving of yourself.

Beanieboy, I don't understand how you get these idea's.

Although, yes, I am NOW angry at myself. I'm angry because I always thought debating was usless, and now I'm not prepared to debate with you. I'm angry because I never used to think I had to work hard to be more like Jesus. And now all I have to defend myself is what I think is in the Bible.

But that doesn't mean that I don't believe. I do believe homo's should be put to death. Shouldn't we try to be more like God and do what He would do?

[Poly]

Originally posted by beanieboy

For example, I love smoking. I like the way it feels.
Good thing, since you'll be experiencing your fair share of it. :devil:

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Beanieboy, I don't understand how you get these idea's.

Although, yes, I am NOW angry at myself. I'm angry because I always thought debating was usless, and now I'm not prepared to debate with you. I'm angry because I never used to think I had to work hard to be more like Jesus. And now all I have to defend myself is what I think is in the Bible.

But that doesn't mean that I don't believe. I do believe homo's should be put to death. Shouldn't we try to be more like God and do what He would do?

God killed entire cities.
Shouldn't you be out killing heathens, to be more like God?

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Poly

Good thing, since you'll be experiencing your fair share of it. :devil:

Sweetie, how many times do I have to say this?
We aren't on the paths to the same place.

I would suggest you take out your map.
I think you made a wrong turn at Albaquerque

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid
Although, yes, I am NOW angry at myself. I'm angry because I always thought debating was usless, and now I'm not prepared to debate with you. I'm angry because I never used to think I had to work hard to be more like Jesus. And now all I have to defend myself is what I think is in the Bible.

But that doesn't mean that I don't believe. I do believe homo's should be put to death. Shouldn't we try to be more like God and do what He would do?

Btw, don't be angry because now you have to think, and support your ideas, or question what you are taught.
If anything, it will make you stronger in your beliefs.
It will make you understand better.
Ask God to guide you.

And remember that the Jewish scholars always debated the Torah and writings. We are given a mind to reason and understand. You are shedding your childish ways. Welcome to adulthood.:)

Should we try to be more like God?
Definitely.

:thumb:

What that means, well, that's what you have to learn.
Good luck.

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

God killed entire cities.
Shouldn't you be out killing heathens, to be more like God?

It may be for the same reason you aren't going out and killing heathens. But I think I'm not out killing heathen for a different reason.

[BChristianK]

Wickwoman said:

You’ve heard the saying: “it’s all good.” There are things that happen to us and we judge them constantly as good or bad. The first key: they do not happen TO us, they just happen. The second key: they are neither good nor bad, they just are.

It depends a great deal as to what you mean exactly by “they.” You said that they are those things that happen that we judge as either good or bad.

Now it is true that some things happen that are neither good nor bad. A plane arrives late, that ‘s bad for the guy on the plane who needs to get to a meeting and will now be late to that meeting. It is good for the guy who left a meeting late and, were it not for the delay of the plane, would not be able to get back home to his family.

So there are some things that are neither good or bad, they just are.

However, there are also some things that I think we can accurately identify as bad.

The senseless beating of a homosexual to death by some very angry students outside of Laramie Wyoming is not, in my opinion, just somethin’ that happened.

It can be said rightly that this was bad, and that it happened to that young man.

Would you disagree?
Do you see how that is an important qualification to your statement?

Now you said:

This is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

Ah, here again are elements I can agree with. To start with the agreement, there is the story of Joseph, who was sold into slavery, made the scapegoat of a setup, thrown into prison, came out of prison to become the second most powerful man in the largest and most powerful kingdom on the earth at that time, and finally brought drought relief to his father and his brothers who had sold him into slavery.

His statement when he finally confronted his brother was, "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

It is true that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose. And in many ways the things we judge ignorantly as bad are really seminal moments in our lives shaping us to be the people God intends for us to be.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God.
I am assuming by Buddha you mean “teaching.” That it is all “teaching.”
For, if I am correct, that is what the word "buddha" means. I don’t think that “the Buddha” would claim that everthing was him. But I know that Balder can inform us better here. So I agree that, to a great degree, everything is teaching.
God’s purposes will not be thwarted. His redemptive plan will be realized regardless of those who turn against him. So I also, don’t pay much attention to doomsday messages. In fact, I don’t really see a whole lot of doomsday messages in the word. I see apocalypse, which really means revealing or uncovering. I do see times of tribulation but those are all temporary and passing and the end of tribulation is the beginning of the goal of redemption.

But I am alarmed at sin, namely my own. I have enough trouble being alarmed at my own sin to pay an inordinant amount of attention to anyone elses. I see that the track that my sin would have me follow is the same track that the world, with its sin, is on, and the end is destruction, for sin is destined to be destroyed. The only hope is not to “live without resistance” to it, but to battle against it.

Were those students to battle against their own hatred, perhaps a young man would still be alive….

Grace and Peace

P.S. Haven’t seen you in awhile, hope everything was ok..

[Duder]

You’ve heard the saying: “it’s all good.” There are things that happen to us and we judge them constantly as good or bad. The first key: they do not happen TO us, they just happen. The second key: they are neither good nor bad, they just are.

This is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

It’s about living without resistance to what comes along, surrendering to our lives with appreciation for things as they are, appreciating every moment as part of a the greater whole that is our life.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God.

Wickwoman -

I would like to introduce you to a writer named Alan Watts (1923 - 1973). Watts was highly educated in religion, philosophy and the arts, and his passion was to explain as best he could the insights of the east in terms that the western mind could grasp. He did this in a very warm, conversational and sometimes funny style, and I think you would take great pleasure in reading The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are to start.

Alan Watts had a lot to say about your insight that "it's all good". Ultimately, he would have agreed with you. But while a world divided into good and bad is an illusory world, it is still an important world. It's the one we find ourselves in, and people of action who love life will have to deal with the problem of evil - it won't just "meditate away".

God, Brahman or the Ultimate Self put evil here to give us something to resist! With evil present, "the game is afoot". Now there are stakes that make life interesting. And that, according to Watt's and his interpretation of eastern wisdom, is the point of life - for both you and the Ultimate Self to have interesting experiences.

When an enlightened person discovers that evil is but one pole of an illusory continuum, he loses the absurd belief that evil must be eradicated. Of course evil must be resisted, but to wipe it out is not only impossible, it would also end the game!

It is good for an enlightened person to fight injustice, but he does so with a sly wink at his enemy - a wink that says "I see the Buddha hiding in you, you old rascal!"

Buddhism is about the middle way. It does not want to destroy evil by "meditating it away" - nor does it want to destroy evil by taking an ultimately serious stand against it. It would have us fight evil AS A GAME. The point is, it is NOT serious. It is PLAY, this whole Maya business - and when you know it is play, then you become a more effective player.

Originally posted by Balder:
Just don't tell the cranky old Zen masters that it's all Buddha. Whenever they see the Buddha on the road, they want to kill him. If everything is Buddha, we'd have quite a mess...

Just kiddin', wick!

Thanks for shedding a little radiance in here!

Peace out the revolution,

Balder

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways, eh?

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

It may be for the same reason you aren't going out and killing heathens. But I think I'm not out killing heathen for a different reason.

But couldn't one argue:
God killed whole villages.
I'm going to go kill whole villages of heathens, because I want to be like God?

[On Fire]

Originally posted by beanieboy

But couldn't one argue:
God killed whole villages.
I'm going to go kill whole villages of heathens, because I want to be like God?

:kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak: :kookoo: :freak:

[beanieboy]

According to Buddhism, one is to see Buddha in everyone.
But that isn't different than what Christ taught. He said to turn the other cheek, and return evil with kindness, to love and bless your enemies.

Why? Because God loves everyone. God loved us when we were still sinners, and we need to show that love to one another. If you tell someone, "You are going to hell! Have a nice life!" you have given them no hope, no out, just condemnation.

It's not how Christ was. Christ loved the Prostitute, and said nothing unkind to her. He loved the adultress, and said nothing unkind to her. He saw the goodness in them. Sure, we all do bad things, but deep down, we all possess the ability to be good.

Paul killed Christians, and look at him.

[On Fire]

You are deaf, dumb and blind to the ways of God.

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by beanieboy

There is a parable about a man that owed a huge debt.
He was forgiven the debt, and went on his way.
He then came to another man who owed him a small debt. He refused to forgive the debt.
When the first man found this out, he said, "I forgave you a large debt, and you cannot forgive the small debt in another. So because you have not forgiven the small debt, I will not forgive your large debt."

What does that mean, exactly?

Under the Kingdom Plan you had to forgive to be forgiven. Under the Body of Christ you forgive BECAUSE HE has forgiven your, but do not forgive those who have not repented (like you). BTW: There are no drugs or Ciggs in hell, :devil:

[Dread Helm]

It's all, like, good wicky! Like, Peace out dude, I think i'm gonna, like, fall over from that overdose, dude! But, like, Listen to this dude, it's like all profound, dude, It's all, like, Buhda, dude... :rolleyes:

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

You are deaf, dumb and blind ...
kid sure plays a mean pinball....

To your God, yes.
Look what it's done to you.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by beanieboy
Look what it's done to you.

Set me FREE!

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by beanieboy

kid sure plays a mean pinball....

To your God, yes.
Look what it's done to you.

Actually I play Astroids :chuckle:

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Under the Kingdom Plan you had to forgive to be forgiven. Under the Body of Christ you forgive BECAUSE HE has forgiven your, but do not forgive those who have not repented (like you). BTW: There are no drugs or Ciggs in hell, :devil:

And there are cigs and drugs in heaven?
I'm not sure why you even bring that up.

So, according to your belief, the point Jesus was making is that you only have to forgive if someone is sorry.
Interesting.

So, Jesus cried out, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," and God said back, "Fat chance. It isn't like they are even sorry."

[servent101]

WickwomanThis is a Buddhist way of thinking about the things that arise that we would judge as good or bad: “it’s all Buddha.” For all that happens is part of the whole. The good parts of us, the bad parts of us, are all part of our essence. Without the experiences that shape us – good and bad – we would not be the people we are today. Without the experiences that will come along today and tomorrow, we would not be the people we are to be in the future.

It’s about living without resistance to what comes along, surrendering to our lives with appreciation for things as they are, appreciating every moment as part of a the greater whole that is our life.

I hear the doomsday messages of some religions today and think to myself lately, “it’s all Buddha.” I am not alarmed at the growth of “sin.” When I see the world, I see the evolution of humanity towards an ever higher awareness of the earth, ourselves, and of God.

People who teach this - then go and do remarkable things to call people to become more companionate, charitable, peaceful - but a lot of people read these things then use it as an excuse to watch the soap operas on TV, let their neighbor live in hell, drive by people in need - to escape reality and live in their own little world, void of compassion for anyone - seeking their own happiness, and failing miserably at that.

People do learn from their own mistakes, and people do get hurt when they are not watching out for the evil in the world - to take steps to prevent bad things from happening to them. When we have an attitude of All is Buddha - if it increases our ability to do good - then that is what it is meant for - so we can do more, accomplish more to better the human race, though this is not the case for people who take an individual approach to the writings - without guidance it is easy to make mistakes.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

[beanieboy]

Buddhists are never to live passively.
You are to live actively, and giving freely.

I was reading this interesting book where the guy was talking about giving. A friend was over, and asked if he could have some juice, after opening the fridge. The man thought, if i say yes, I will have less juice for me. And then he thought, it's just juice. I can walk across the street and buy more.

It's like that. We think of it as good or bad. If you drink my juice, it is good for you, and bad for me. It should just be an offer with no judgement attached.

It's just juice, not a gallon of your blood.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Buddhists are never to live passively.
You are to live actively, and giving freely.

I was reading this interesting book where the guy was talking about giving. A friend was over, and asked if he could have some juice, after opening the fridge. The man thought, if i say yes, I will have less juice for me. And then he thought, it's just juice. I can walk across the street and buy more.

It's like that. We think of it as good or bad. If you drink my juice, it is good for you, and bad for me. It should just be an offer with no judgement attached.

It's just juice, not a gallon of your blood.

Ya know....you should start your own religion! Beanieism, or Beanites, or Cliches-a-Plenty.

[Christine]

Originally posted by beanieboy

According to Buddhism, one is to see Buddha in everyone.
But that isn't different than what Christ taught. He said to turn the other cheek, and return evil with kindness, to love and bless your enemies.
"Turn the other cheek" was directed at a different dispensation.



It's not how Christ was. Christ loved the Prostitute, and said nothing unkind to her. He loved the adultress, and said nothing unkind to her. He saw the goodness in them. Sure, we all do bad things, but deep down, we all possess the ability to be good.
Unlike you, he told them to repent of their sins.

Paul killed Christians, and look at him.
He repented. He didn't continuing persecuting believers upon being saved.

[wickwoman]

Thanks Beanieboy, Balder and Purex and anyone else I missed, for your kind comments.

To everyone else: There is no necessity to judge which bad events will turn out good in the end and which will not. For that matter, you, as a human being, do not have the foresight to do so. Example: Jesus’ crucifixion looked like a terrible event to the human beings who were there. And there were probably some followers who did not see him in his resurrected state (if this actually happened). They could have gone on and on about how terrible it was that he was crucified, however, they were incapable of knowing what the future held and how an entire religion that lasted for thousands of years would be founded on this person Jesus Christ.

As for those with bad intentions who commit what appears to be evil, they will receive their reward. However, this does not preclude the fact that all will work together for good. And, by no means, does the “it’s all Buddha” philosophy encourage wrong acts. However, it points to the truth of the matter: “all things work together for good.” Just because you do not see the end result does not mean that the end will not be good.

And how could anyone who acknowledges that even some things that look terrible on the surface do turn out good in the end, protest that there are other things that absolutely will not? How can a human being truly know the difference? Unless you have the ability to look into the future to the end of time, then you cannot predict that ALL things will not work together for good.

This is not condoning “evil.” It is giving up resistance to the whole of existence or the Tao, doing what you can to change your own world, and trusting the universe to handle the rest.

[BChristianK]

Wickwoman

There is no necessity to judge which bad events will turn out good in the end and which will not. For that matter, you, as a human being, do not have the foresight to do so.

Agreed, but does that make such things good in and of themselves? You mentioned the crucifixion. Was that a good thing to do to someone? Should Pilate and the Sanhedrin be commended for this action because it all turned out good in the end?

I agree that some bad things lead to the good, but that doesn’t make the bad thing good.

Some good things came out of the murder of Matthew Shepherd, a lot of dialog was sparked about hate crimes, but that doesn’t make the students who killed Matthew shepherd commendable or innocent of guilt.

We appear to agree in your next statement.

As for those with bad intentions who commit what appears to be evil, they will receive their reward. However, this does not preclude the fact that all will work together for good.

So we are about 85% on the same page, where I disagree with you is in the next statement.


And how could anyone who acknowledges that even some things that look terrible on the surface do turn out good in the end, protest that there are other things that absolutely will not? How can a human being truly know the difference? Unless you have the ability to look into the future to the end of time, then you cannot predict that ALL things will not work together for good.

This will probably sound nitpicky but I think it is an important nitpick. Some things, are truly wrong, not just wrong on the surface. Those things can still be used toward an end of the ultimate good, but they are still wrong.

Now you are right that as human being we cannot look to into the eschaton and know for certain which things happened for the ultimate good and which did not, but we can still look and see things like the brutal rape, enslavement and murder of women in Sudan as evil and wrong.

Now you finally say:


This is not condoning “evil.” It is giving up resistance to the whole of existence or the Tao, doing what you can to change your own world, and trusting the universe to handle the rest.

the concept of trusting the universe is one that I have always found a little strange. It is a bit off topic, but as I consider the universe to be the sum of all things in the cosmos, I don’t place much trust in it as an entity with a collective consciousness.

My toilet bowl, my toothbrush and my dirty socks are all a part of the universe, and I don’t place a lot of trust in the vast accumulations of toilet bowls, toothbrushes and dirty socks, along with everything else in universe, to work things out.

I’d rather put my trust in a God Who’s composition is totally devoid of toilet bowls and dirty socks.

Perhaps I will start a thread on the alleged sovereignty of the universe.

:D

Grace and Peace

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Well, I'm not going to let homo's into my house. I'm not about to let homo's talk to my siblings. I'm not about to let a druggie offer them drugs, and I'm not about to support putting them in a corrupt school.



Do you also forbid your kids to interact with people who are gluttons, ShadowMaid?

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Why are christians such unhappy, angry people?

Because we need to protect our "truth" and if it takes bashing you, and your beliefs, then so be it.

*sarcasm mode off*

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

I'm angry because there shouldn't be such thing as homo's... but there is. I'm angry because there shouldn't be such thing as sexual intercourse out of marriage... but there is. God abhors these sins, and I abhor them also.

Should there be people who love to eat too much?

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Actually when your a Christian God blots out your sins, and covers it with "CHRISTIAN" so even if you sin, youre no longer a "Sinner".

So it's ok to be gay who is Christian, and not ok to be gay who is non-Christian?

It's ok to be glutton who is Christian, and not ok to be glutton who is non-Christian?

[Christine]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Do you also forbid your kids to interact with people who are gluttons, ShadowMaid?
I'm not ShadowMiad, but allow me to express my opinion. :) Gluttony is, of course a sin, but it is far worse than sodomy. Why? Gluttons only hurt themselves, but sodomites often molest children and hurt others. So, my answer would be, yes, I would allow my children to interact with gluttons.

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Christine
He repented. He didn't continuing persecuting believers upon being saved.

So, if I kill 100 people, then stop, I am no longer a murderer?

Interesting.

[Christine]

Originally posted by beanieboy

So, if I kill 100 people, then stop, I am no longer a murderer?

Interesting.
I did not say that. If someone murdered 100 people, upon salvation, God would help them to stop murdering. However, they would still have to answer to the leagal authorities for their crimes and face the penalty.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by beanieboy

So, if I kill 100 people, then stop, I am no longer a murderer?

Interesting.

Remove your head from your posterior.

If you kill 100 people then stop you are still a murder and will spend the rest of your life in prison (or, better yet, suffer the death penalty).

If you kill 100 people then stop and receive Jesus Christ you are a redeemed murder and will spend the rest of your life in prison (or, better yet, suffer the death penalty) but you will also go to heaven.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by Christine

I did not say that. If someone murdered 100 people, upon salvation, God would help them to stop murdering. However, they would still have to answer to the leagal authorities for their crimes and face the penalty.

Exactly.

[Poly]

Originally posted by beanieboy

So, if I kill 100 people, then stop, I am no longer a murderer?


Kill? I doubt you can even hit. I'll bet you can "thlap thomebody thilly though".

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by wickwoman
As for those with bad intentions who commit what appears to be evil, they will receive their reward.

I agree.
My human behavior often wants to get revenge. This place is like a Petri dish that just makes you want to return evil with evil.

But really, it helps me see what true ugliness is, and know that I don't want to be like that, especially don't like it when I see it displayed in myself.

But it teaches me kindness, not out of example, but out of being forced into it.
It teaches me that evil returns evil and continues an endless chain, but kindness breaks the evil.

And I believe that being angry, being sad enough to lash out at other people and claim that you are being loving, is, in itself, its own punishment. It separates you from others, and so, from God.

It's just hard to keep remembering that. Thanks for the string around the finger.:)

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Christine

I did not say that. If someone murdered 100 people, upon salvation, God would help them to stop murdering. However, they would still have to answer to the leagal authorities for their crimes and face the penalty.

Unlike Paul....

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

I do believe homo's should be put to death. Shouldn't we try to be more like God and do what He would do?

I do believe that rebellious children who kick their parents should be put to death (Ex 21:15)

I do believe that anyone who does any work in day of Sabbath, should be put to death (Ex 31:14)

I do believe that anyone who ever drinks blood, should be put to death (Lv 17:14)

I do believe that anyone who sleeps with his wife during menstruation should be put to death (Lv 18:19,29; 20:18)

I do believe that anyone who is commiting adultery should be put to death (Lv 20:10)

I do believe that anyone who mocks God's name (whatever in home, or in public, in TV, in Radio, in Internet, etc) should be put to death (Lv 24:16)

I hope, ShadowMaid, that you believe the same.


P.S. I also believe what is written in Rm 6:23 that everyone who sins is worthy of death. Even YOU and ME.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Poly

Good thing, since you'll be experiencing your fair share of it. :devil:

As does Poly one day before God's judgement seat.

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by beanieboy

And there are cigs and drugs in heaven?
I'm not sure why you even bring that up.

So, according to your belief, the point Jesus was making is that you only have to forgive if someone is sorry.
Interesting.

So, Jesus cried out, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," and God said back, "Fat chance. It isn't like they are even sorry."

Anyone going to take this one?

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

As does Poly one day before God's judgement seat.

Before. I think she believes she will be on the judgement throne.
"Move over, pops. Let me show you how it's done.
You - Off with your head, bwah hah hah"

(Shiver)

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Christine

I'm not ShadowMiad, but allow me to express my opinion. :) Gluttony is, of course a sin, but it is far worse than sodomy. Why? Gluttons only hurt themselves, but sodomites often molest children and hurt others. So, my answer would be, yes, I would allow my children to interact with gluttons.

Do you have any facts, or links to give us that gays often molest children? And that they do it more often than heterosexualists?

I got news for you: gluttons DO hurt others. They invite you and tempt you with lot of food in their table and make you eat too much. So i see no difference between glutton and homo.

Actually i see gluttons doing lot more damage to their and other peoples health what is uncompareable to what homos do. Actually i'm yet to hear from you any idea why being gay is sin besides of being sin back in times where being fertile was all that mattered.

[beanieboy]

Besides, if the body is a temple, blimping it out with fat seems to be a desecration of the temple.

Am I wrong?

[beanieboy]

Sometimes, TOL reminds me of Seven, the guy that uses the Seven Deadly Sins that people commit and force them to kill themselves.
And he can do it, because he is above them, sinless.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Besides, if the body is a temple, blimping it out with fat seems to be a desecration of the temple.

Am I wrong?

If overeating kills (even slowly as do heavy drinking, drugs, smoking, and lot of cafee) your body, then it's sinning against your body as Temple of God, yes.

It's sometimes interesting that Christians bash some certain things (like here in Estonia almost any Baptist bashes smoking), while they actually commit other destructive sins. With few exceptions drinking too much coffee will rise your blood-pressure eventually nearing the day when you get heart attack, or die by some other way because of high blood-pressure. Eating too much will generally:

1) make your body more vulnerable for sicknesses aka nearing the day when you die;

2) make your brain working slower. That's why eating less, or fasting regularly makes your thoughts more clear;

3) will give bad role-model for other people and for your kids. It encourages them to see it as normal thing to do until they get some sickness due to overweight and then think that they are victims of fate, instead of seeing that it was their sin what brought the sickness.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Sometimes, TOL reminds me of Seven, the guy that uses the Seven Deadly Sins that people commit and force them to kill themselves.
And he can do it, because he is above them, sinless.

Very true. Or he/she might even know that he also does sin, but he hids himself behind the grace of God (i'm saved even if i do sin, but you are sinner and you go to hell for your sins). Or he/she might have good autosuggestion that his sin is almost nothing compared with yours, because you are - AN HOMO similar to child-molesters and murderers! :chuckle:

That's why (althought i dont agree with everything he says) i start to believe more and more that Smaller actually got very deep point. As did Paul in his letter of Romans.

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that rebellious children who kick their parents should be put to death (Ex 21:15)

I do believe that anyone who does any work in day of Sabbath, should be put to death (Ex 31:14)

I do believe that anyone who ever drinks blood, should be put to death (Lv 17:14)

I do believe that anyone who sleeps with his wife during menstruation should be put to death (Lv 18:19,29; 20:18)

I do believe that anyone who is commiting adultery should be put to death (Lv 20:10)

I do believe that anyone who mocks God's name (whatever in home, or in public, in TV, in Radio, in Internet, etc) should be put to death (Lv 24:16)

I hope, ShadowMaid, that you believe the same.


P.S. I also believe what is written in Rm 6:23 that everyone who sins is worthy of death. Even YOU and ME.

I would agree with you, if you can show me very similar verses from the NT. Though I believe some are in the NT, like adultery. But if you could show me the others in the NT, I'll believe you. :)

[beanieboy]

If you don't believe in the OT, how can you believe in the bible?

It says nothing of execution of anyone in the NT.
All death penalties are in the OT.
Yet you believe that.

Why's that?

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by beanieboy

If you don't believe in the OT, how can you believe in the bible?

It says nothing of execution of anyone in the NT.
All death penalties are in the OT.
Yet you believe that.

Why's that?

I believe those things actually happened in the OT. And I believe we should use the OT as a sort of and example. But I don't think it should be taken as literally as the NT for our rules.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

I would agree with you, if you can show me very similar verses from the NT. Though I believe some are in the NT, like adultery. But if you could show me the others in the NT, I'll believe you. :)

I would agree with you too if you would show me from NT that homos should be put to death.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

I believe those things actually happened in the OT. And I believe we should use the OT as a sort of and example. But I don't think it should be taken as literally as the NT for our rules.

Then why do you believe that homos should be put to death, but those other people i cited from the Law are somehow different?

[wickwoman]

Dear Beanieboy:

As I read the many replies I hear all the angry and excited voices in my head, like the crowds that cried to Jesus, "stone her!" when the adulterous woman was brought before him. And it wasn't that he forgave her but that he showed her there was nothing to forgive.

I remember again, "it's all Buddha" and see that, for you, these babbling, angry, executioners have but provided for you an example of how you can be different and provide the opposing force - love. It works!

And, life goes on. As I separate myself from these angry voices here, I find how wonderful it is to be alive. The summer's first lightning bugs are coming out and lighting up the fields near my home at night. And, the whipporwhills have begun calling to each other from the oak trees overhead. Tonight at the full moon, I will ask for special patience and peace for you as I take my walk.

[Poly]

Originally posted by wickwoman

And, life goes on. As I separate myself from these angry voices here, I find how wonderful it is to be alive. The summer's first lightning bugs are coming out and lighting up the fields near my home at night. And, the whipporwhills have begun calling to each other from the oak trees overhead. Tonight at the full moon, I will ask for special patience and peace for you as I take my walk.
"Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya...." everybody now, "Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya."

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Sometimes, TOL reminds me of Seven, the guy that uses the Seven Deadly Sins that people commit and force them to kill themselves.
And he can do it, because he is above them, sinless.

Apparently, you didn't pay much attention to the movie.

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia
I do believe that anyone who sleeps with his wife during menstruation should be put to death (Lv 18:19,29; 20:18)

This doesn't carry the death sentence in the Bible. Did you even read the proof texts you offered?

From Leviticus:
18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

[Aussie Thinker]

WOW,

If you came across this thread with NO preconceived notion and NO religious leaning you would think that the Christians here belong to an evil sect of intolerant animals.

Notable exceptions being Servant101 and Cyrus.

When I think about dangers to society I see ShadowMaid and her ilk as something horrific.

The brainless bigotry exhibited by her is truly frightening.

Fortunately for us the way she thinks is an anathema to NORMAL humans and we can laugh at her inanity. Unfortunately all humans no matter how stupid CAN breed. I hope for whatever God you believe in’s sake that she doesn’t.. mind you I have faith in human nature so I am sure her offspring would see through her inanities and bigotry and learn their own way through life.

Wickwoman (sorry for the rant it was your thread)

It is ok to accept evil (as part of our nature) but that should not lead to complacency against it.

Do we have any evidence for Buddhist societies getting it “right” more than other societies ?

Jack,

Cut off in those days usually meant banished to starve or into slavery.. but regardless.. a punishment for sleeping with a Woman during her menstrual period is the most ridiculous, primitive load of rubbish I think I have EVER heard.

[Christine]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Do you have any facts, or links to give us that gays often molest children? And that they do it more often than heterosexualists?
No, but I believe it too be true.
I got news for you: gluttons DO hurt others. They invite you and tempt you with lot of food in their table and make you eat too much. So i see no difference between glutton and homo.
Maybe gluttons do hurt others, but God did not perscribe the death penalty for gluttony like he did for sodomy.

Actually i see gluttons doing lot more damage to their and other peoples health what is uncompareable to what homos do. Actually i'm yet to hear from you any idea why being gay is sin besides of being sin back in times where being fertile was all that mattered.
:kookoo: What about AIDS, herpes, hepititis, and other diseases sodomites get?

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that rebellious children who kick their parents should be put to death (Ex 21:15) That was under the Law.

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that anyone who does any work in day of Sabbath, should be put to death (Ex 31:14)
Law
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that anyone who ever drinks blood, should be put to death (Lv 17:14) Uhh, that would be Law
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that anyone who sleeps with his wife during menstruation should be put to death (Lv 18:19,29; 20:18) Law again.
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that anyone who is commiting adultery should be put to death (Lv 20:10) Law and Grace
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I do believe that anyone who mocks God's name (whatever in home, or in public, in TV, in Radio, in Internet, etc) should be put to death (Lv 24:16) Law, but I believe punishable under Grace.


Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

P.S. I also believe what is written in Rm 6:23 that everyone who sins is worthy of death. Even YOU and ME.
:chuckle: :shut:

[Aussie Thinker]

Christine,

Your GOD did not prescribe the death penalty for anything..

MAN wrote the Bible.. you CHOOSE to think God did it !

You just want a demented inane excuse for you own ridiculous bigotry.

Gluttony is a FAR more evil thing to modern man than homosexuality.

Gluttons guzzle limited resources while 1/3 of the world starve, Gluttons overload the medical systems with their myriad of problems, Gluttons take up time and space with their gluttony…

Homosexuals have consensual sex with each other.. it affects NO ONE…

What about all the diseases heterosexuals get !

Jesus messages about life in general and love your fellow man, turn the other cheek and do unto others etc.. are completely LOST on you. If Jesus really was God (or son of) he would be sending YOU straight to HELL !

[Christine]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Christine,

Your GOD did not prescribe the death penalty for anything..

MAN wrote the Bible.. you CHOOSE to think God did it !

Men inspired by God wrote the Bible. It was God-breathed.

You just want a demented inane excuse for you own ridiculous bigotry.
I didn't even condemn anyone and you call me a bigot?

Gluttony is a FAR more evil thing to modern man than homosexuality.

Gluttons guzzle limited resources while 1/3 of the world starve, Gluttons overload the medical systems with their myriad of problems, Gluttons take up time and space with their gluttony…

Homosexuals have consensual sex with each other.. it affects NO ONE…
It affects the spouses they run off and leave. It affects their parents who have to live with their child's life of sin. If affects any children they had when they were straight. Sodomy affects many.

What about all the diseases heterosexuals get !
What about them?

essages about life in general and love your fellow man, turn the other cheek and do unto others etc.. are completely LOST on you. If Jesus really was God (or son of) he would be sending YOU straight to HELL !
You should read more of the Bible, instead of skipping around to the parts you think fit you're way of thinking. Jesus was the Son of God, who condmn people, who will someday send people to hell. This does not sound like the Jesus you describe.
.

[PureX]

Originally posted by wickwoman As I read the many replies I hear all the angry and excited voices in my head, like the crowds that cried to Jesus, "stone her!" when the adulterous woman was brought before him. And it wasn't that he forgave her but that he showed her there was nothing to forgive. So far, here in america, those voices shouting for blood are silenced by the rule of laws based on individual rights and freedoms. But as the lust for blood (imagined to be divine justice) grows, it may someday be able to overpower the rule of laws that protect us from the howl of even a "righteous" majority.

There are a lot of places in this world that Jesus doesn't seem to reach, and where the cry of the crowd becomes blood and stone. And this could become one of them if some Christians get their way.

[ShadowMaid]

Aussie Thinker, I don't have children yet.

And I'm only 14. I'm still practicing my debating skills.

[Aussie Thinker]

Shadowmaid,

Aussie Thinker, I don't have children yet.

And I'm only 14. I'm still practicing my debating skills.

I did not realise I was dealing with a child… mind you I know plenty of 14 yo’s who do have adult opinions.. maybe you will get your own one day ?

I should pass my invective on to you parents or whoever it was who filled your head with inane hatred in the name of God.

You really need to wait until you have experienced life.. go and meet and talk to some homosexuals.. you will find (surprise surprise) that they are humans just like you with the same desires goals and needs.

Stop spouting your parents bigotry and learn for yourself.

Christine..

You seemed to condone the bigotry others had posted but looking back you don’t outright condem.. so I guess an apology is order…

BTW you weren’t going to hell anyway.. pssst.. it doesn’t exist !

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Shadowmaid,



I did not realise I was dealing with a child… mind you I know plenty of 14 yo’s who do have adult opinions.. maybe you will get your own one day ?

I should pass my invective on to you parents or whoever it was who filled your head with inane hatred in the name of God.

You really need to wait until you have experienced life.. go and meet and talk to some homosexuals.. you will find (surprise surprise) that they are humans just like you with the same desires goals and needs.

Stop spouting your parents bigotry and learn for yourself.

Christine..

You seemed to condone the bigotry others had posted but looking back you don’t outright condem.. so I guess an apology is order…

BTW you weren’t going to hell anyway.. pssst.. it doesn’t exist !

Aussie Thinker, I will do my best not to talk with a homo. :vomit:

[Aussie Thinker]

Shadowmaid…

What is it that worries you so much about “homos” ?

I can only think of 1 thing.. they reduce the number of eligible men …lol..

I can remember when I was a bit homophobic in my youth a mate once said…

“Maaaate…Poofs (Aussie vernacular) are a good thing.. the more of them there are the more Chicks there are for us”…. that was good enough for me…lol

Seriously girl how can you judge homosexuals unless you talk to them.

[Lion]

Aussie Thinker said:The brainless bigotry exhibited by her is truly frightening.

Fortunately for us the way she thinks is an anathema to NORMAL humans and we can laugh at her inanity. Unfortunately all humans no matter how stupid CAN breed. I hope for whatever God you believe in’s sake that she doesn’t.. mind you I have faith in human nature so I am sure her offspring would see through her inanities and bigotry and learn their own way through life.
What a hypocritical fool you are. You say she is bigoted but you, who call her and others here names, just because they believe differently than you, are not?

As for normal humans, you ought to do a little research before you spout off. The overwhelming majority of mankind does not accept the perversion of homosexuality, nor do they condone it.

And as for the ability for stupid to breed, you are living proof of that. I just hope you don’t so it won’t be passed on again.

And as for your faith in human nature, would that be the human nature of evolution? You know, survival of the fittest? Like Hitler and Stalin believed in? No thanks I’ll take the God nature that He has offered us.

Cut off in those days usually meant banished to starve or into slavery.. but regardless.. a punishment for sleeping with a Woman during her menstrual period is the most ridiculous, primitive load of rubbish I think I have EVER heard.You really shouldn’t talk about things you obviously have no knowledge of. To be “cut off” meant to be put to death, in both the Old Testament and New. And if you can't even get that right you have zero chance of getting the symbolism of the prohibition against having relations during a woman’s cycle.

Gluttony is a FAR more evil thing to modern man than homosexuality. Oh, so at least you do acknowledge that homosexuality is an evil thing.

Gluttons guzzle limited resources while 1/3 of the world starve, Gluttons overload the medical systems with their myriad of problems, Gluttons take up time and space with their gluttony…

Homosexuals have consensual sex with each other.. it affects NO ONE…

What about all the diseases heterosexuals get !

Jesus messages about life in general and love your fellow man, turn the other cheek and do unto others etc.. are completely LOST on you. If Jesus really was God (or son of) he would be sending YOU straight to HELL !

Here you prove yourself the human hater you really are. Gee what should we do with all the glutinous people in the world? Kill them, then the poor Earth won’t be overcrowded anymore.

What a fool!

And homos affect everyone with their horrid perversion. They go out and have sex and them come back and give it to their unsuspecting wives or girlfriends. Otherwise there wouldn’t be aids in the heterosexual culture at all. And don’t try the stupid drug, or blood transfusion bit, because it still all comes back to what you disgustingly refer to as “poofers.” Oh, and what did your stupid statement about all the diseases heterosexuals get, mean? Is there a heterosexual disease that homo’s don’t get? I don’t think so. Moron!

And Jesus is the one that said if a man lay with a man as with a woman he shall be put to death. His blood is on his own head. Because like it or not, Jesus is God. But hey, don’t take my word for it, wait till you die and then you will know.

I did not realise I was dealing with a child… mind you I know plenty of 14 yo’s who do have adult opinions.. maybe you will get your own one day ?

I should pass my invective on to you parents or whoever it was who filled your head with inane hatred in the name of God.
Wow, big bad man. You knew she was 14 this time and you still treat her like dirt and try and pervert her. I will gladly stand in judgment of you on Judgment day and help condemn you to hell for that. Your only hope is to repent to God and accept the gift of His Son, but I don’t find that likely.

You really need to wait until you have experienced life.. go and meet and talk to some homosexuals.. you will find (surprise surprise) that they are humans just like you with the same desires goals and needs.

Stop spouting your parents bigotry and learn for yourself.Right, instead spout your kind of bigotry against Christians? Again you play the hypocrite.

As for going out to meet homos, why not tell her to go and talk with a nice pedophile too? Of course they are often the same thing.

And by what right do you try and take authority over her parents? What kind of sick thinking led you to do that?

You make me sick.


Shadow Maid, it is not your job to take on filth like this, I strongly advise you to have no further correspondence with this trash. You are not physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough for these types of battles. Practice debating with fellow Christians until you are older and more prepared to take on the garbage of the world.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

This doesn't carry the death sentence in the Bible. Did you even read the proof texts you offered?

Of course i read! I read them from my Estonian Bible, where some wording can be bit different than in this English version, but it still has translated from original Hebrew. It clearly tells me that having sex during menstruation period is wrong and should be punished with death. "Cut off" - "destroyed" (in Estonian Bible), what means should be killed.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Christine

No, but I believe it too be true.


:doh:

I believe that Christine is child-molester. I do not have any facts, i just believe it.

How do you like this false accusation?



Maybe gluttons do hurt others, but God did not perscribe the death penalty for gluttony like he did for sodomy.


Nor has He perscribed death penalty for homos since NT. You can find this rule no where in NT that we should put homos to death. What you do find is that EVERYONE of us is worthy of death, because of our sins. Your sin is not smaller than the sins of homos, Christine.




:kookoo: What about AIDS, herpes, hepititis, and other diseases sodomites get?

And you think that heterosexuals dont have the same diseases? I dont even bother to ask you any facts to prove your claims, because you just decided to BELIEVE it. Good luck!


P.S. Do you ever have read what was the actual sin of those people who lived in Sodom? Care to quess? :chuckle:

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Law, but I believe punishable under Grace.



The same way as you just BELIEVE that mocking God could be also punishable under grace, you decided to BELIEVE that homosexuality deserves to be punished under Grace too.

You just believe :crackup:

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid

Aussie Thinker, I will do my best not to talk with a homo. :vomit:

Very Jesus-like. Thanks for sharing how much you follow your Jesus.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Lion

You really shouldn’t talk about things you obviously have no knowledge of. To be “cut off” meant to be put to death, in both the Old Testament and New.

I hope One Eyed Jack reads it :thumb:

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Lion

Shadow Maid, it is not your job to take on filth like this, I strongly advise you to have no further correspondence with this trash. You are not physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough for these types of battles. Practice debating with fellow Christians until you are older and more prepared to take on the garbage of the world.

So you suggest ShadowMaid to get more involved in ideology that supports HATRED AND LIES about homos, and when she grows up she can come even with bolder convictions how unhuman, devilish, and deep in sin homos are?

So you just suggest we should take one category of people and just bash them? Maybe you would like all homos put into concentration camp too so they would sent to gas chamber our of our face?

This is spreading hatred and looking away from other sins that are way more serious in the eyes of God IMO. :nono:

[Christine]

originally posted by LionWow, big bad man. You knew she was 14 this time and you still treat her like dirt and try and pervert her. I will gladly stand in judgment of you on Judgment day and help condemn you to hell for that. Your only hope is to repent to God and accept the gift of His Son, but I don’t find that likely.
Actually Lion, I believe that one was directed at me. I'm 16, not 14, but thanks for jumping in. :)

[Aussie Thinker]

Lion,

What a hypocritical fool you are. You say she is bigoted but you, who call her and others here names, just because they believe differently than you, are not?

People who advocate DEATH for others for consensual adult sexual preferences are bigoted.. I rail at THEIR view. There is no bigotry there.. Someone who complains about Nazis and the KKK are hardly bigoted toward them ?

As for normal humans, you ought to do a little research before you spout off. The overwhelming majority of mankind does not accept the perversion of homosexuality, nor do they condone it.

Homosexuality has been around since man first crawled out of the cave (before even.. animals do it too so it is obviously a natural urge for many).

And as for the ability for stupid to breed, you are living proof of that. I just hope you don’t so it won’t be passed on again.

Oh I have 3 fine children my son just got elected school captain. And you know what… he thinks homosexuals are just other humans. My others wont grow up bigoted about ANYONE !

And as for your faith in human nature, would that be the human nature of evolution? You know, survival of the fittest? Like Hitler and Stalin believed in? No thanks I’ll take the God nature that He has offered us.

I’ll take the natural empathy man has for his fellow man. The ONLY moral guide that exists that is not tainted with religious mumbo jumbo. Hitler mentioned God a LOT in his speeches.

You really shouldn’t talk about things you obviously have no knowledge of. To be “cut off” meant to be put to death, in both the Old Testament and New. And if you can't even get that right you have zero chance of getting the symbolism of the prohibition against having relations during a woman’s cycle.

You better talk to OEJ then he seems to think it didn’t mean Death either. So you do advocate death for the horrific crime of sleeping with a woman who is menstruating??? You belong in the dark ages.

Oh, so at least you do acknowledge that homosexuality is an evil thing.

No.. gluttony is MORE evil.. homosexuality is not at all and gluttony is a little bit evil !

Here you prove yourself the human hater you really are. Gee what should we do with all the glutinous people in the world? Kill them, then the poor Earth won’t be overcrowded anymore.

Sounds like you eat a bit too much. I NEVER advocated killing .. that is your type of agenda.. I merely said on a scale of thing gluttony is worse than homosexuality

What a fool!

[Bart Simpson Mode] You are .. but what about me..

And homos affect everyone with their horrid perversion. They go out and have sex and them come back and give it to their unsuspecting wives or girlfriends. Otherwise there wouldn’t be aids in the heterosexual culture at all. And don’t try the stupid drug, or blood transfusion bit, because it still all comes back to what you disgustingly refer to as “poofers.” Oh, and what did your stupid statement about all the diseases heterosexuals get, mean? Is there a heterosexual disease that homo’s don’t get? I don’t think so. Moron!

Oh you are going over the top with your stupidity here…

I would say it was BI-sexuals that go from male partners to female partners.
Aids was a heterosexual disease spread throughout Africa where it remains so.
Homosexuals are more susceptible to catching it because like Africans they have a culture of many sexual partners etc.

And Jesus is the one that said if a man lay with a man as with a woman he shall be put to death. His blood is on his own head. Because like it or not, Jesus is God. But hey, don’t take my word for it, wait till you die and then you will know.

Well I hunted the KJV for 30 minutes but could not find Jesus saying this.. please point me to it.. Sad I may have to change my opinion of the man !

Wow, big bad man. You knew she was 14 this time and you still treat her like dirt and try and pervert her.

I deliberately toned down when I found out her age.. however it is even MORE important at that age that she gets a balanced view on life .. I speak of tolerance you speak of DEATH for homosexuals and people who sleep with menstrual women.. who is PERVERTED !

I will gladly stand in judgment of you on Judgment day and help condemn you to hell for that. Your only hope is to repent to God and accept the gift of His Son, but I don’t find that likely.

Haha.. if there is a God it is you and your Ilk he would condemn.. I can just see it now.. you sentenced them to Death for THAT ???.. Are you an idiot ?

Right, instead spout your kind of bigotry against Christians? Again you play the hypocrite.

Everyone I Know and love are Christians.. not your perverted fundamental death dealing type Christians.. ones who honestly love their fellow man regardless of preferences.

As for going out to meet homos, why not tell her to go and talk with a nice pedophile too? Of course they are often the same thing.

You are one sick puppy.. you KNOW there is NO link between Homosexuals and Pedophiles.. In fact almost ALL pedophiles are heterosexuals.. you HAVE to link them to some sick perversion to maintain your hatred of them.. you need help.

And by what right do you try and take authority over her parents? What kind of sick thinking led you to do that?

If her parents have promoted the bigotry she has then they need help too. A balanced view is always helpful. The poor girl will grow up and realize homosexuals are just people like me and you and then what.. hate herself for hating them .. hate her parents for promoting the bigotry.. better that she learns something about real life NOW

You make me sick.

The feeling is quite mutual.

Shadow Maid, it is not your job to take on filth like this, I strongly advise you to have no further correspondence with this trash. You are not physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough for these types of battles. Practice debating with fellow Christians until you are older and more prepared to take on the garbage of the world.

Yet she is physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough to HATE homosexuals enough without KNOWING any to want them to all be executed.. You have a demented way of thinking.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Well I hunted the KJV for 30 minutes but could not find Jesus saying this.. please point me to it.. Sad I may have to change my opinion of the man !



Actually there is NO written record that Jesus EVER said so (not in canonical Gospels, nor in non-canonical Gospels as far as i have read them). But fundies love to think that if something was written in Jewish Law, then it was spoken by Jesus himself, methinks. They take it as safe-line to keep their ill-willed doctrines and approve anything they want with twisting scriptures and ascribing to Jesus whatever words they like. :help:

[Dread Helm]

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12
And he banished the sodomites from the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22:46
And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he removed from the land.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

1 Timothy 1:10
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,


1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;

Nothing AGAINST Homos in the Bible, huh?

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
People who advocate DEATH for others for consensual adult sexual preferences are bigoted.. I rail at THEIR view. There is no bigotry there.. Someone who complains about Nazis and the KKK are hardly bigoted toward them ?
Nah no bigotry there. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Homosexuality has been around since man first crawled out of the cave (before even.. animals do it too so it is obviously a natural urge for many).
I'd Really Like to see some proof for that. :chuckle:
Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Oh I have 3 fine children my son just got elected school captain. And you know what… he thinks homosexuals are just other humans. My others wont grow up bigoted about ANYONE !

Boy I'd be embarassed at my kids if that happened. Reminds me of the Bumper sticker "My Kid bead up your honor student". That's what happens when your kid gets effeminant. :nono:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

No.. gluttony is MORE evil.. homosexuality is not at all and gluttony is a little bit evil !
YOURE BIGOTED AGAINST GLUTTONS! And not Homos? MIXED UP PRIORITY ALERT!!! :freak:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Aids was a heterosexual disease spread throughout Africa where it remains so.
Homosexuals are more susceptible to catching it because like Africans they have a culture of many sexual partners etc.

It's called recriminalize Bestiality, Adultery, and Homosexuality, and reinstate, celebacy until marriage, beetween a man and a woman.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

I deliberately toned down when I found out her age.. however it is even MORE important at that age that she gets a balanced view on life .. I speak of tolerance you speak of DEATH for homosexuals and people who sleep with menstrual women.. who is PERVERTED !
I'm 12 so keep it down ;)

QUOTE]Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Haha.. if there is a God it is you and your Ilk he would condemn.. I can just see it now.. you sentenced them to Death for THAT ???.. Are you an idiot ? [/Quote] No I think you are and if you don't repent you will burn in hellfire for eternity.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Everyone I Know and love are Christians.. not your perverted fundamental death dealing type Christians.. ones who honestly love their fellow man regardless of preferences. Then you wouldn't like Jesus cause he called people names, was mean, and FUFILLED the Law (which was mean). But I agree maybe we do emphasize this too much. He was also kind and loving, but was NOT the effeminate, love everyone no matter what, girly-Jesus. He was a true man.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

You are one sick puppy.. you KNOW there is NO link between Homosexuals and Pedophiles.. In fact almost ALL pedophiles are heterosexuals.. you HAVE to link them to some sick perversion to maintain your hatred of them.. you need help. Again check your studies , facts, and resources. If you have any, :chuckle:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

If her parents have promoted the bigotry she has then they need help too. A balanced view is always helpful. The poor girl will grow up and realize homosexuals are just people like me and you and then what.. hate herself for hating them .. hate her parents for promoting the bigotry.. better that she learns something about real life NOW College Student: "I've learned to think for myself..." Christian: "Who told you to do that?" College Student: "My Proffesor" :kookoo:
You need to learn something.
Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

Yet she is physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough to HATE homosexuals enough without KNOWING any to want them to all be executed.. You have a demented way of thinking. And the boy that was raped by a Homo Priest and later commited suicide, you would say was not physically, emotionally, or spiritually mature enough to HATE homosexuals enough without KNOWING any to want them to all be executed. I think YOU have a demented way of thinking. :nono: :shocked: :freak:

[BChristianK]

Lets borrow a parable…


"Two men went up into a little church chapel to pray, one a committed Christian and the other a practicing homosexual "The Committed Christian stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: secular humanists, pro choice advocates, adulterers, or even like this practicing homosexual. 'I have my morning quiet time; I pay tithes of all that I earn.'

"But the practicing homosexual, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was praying quietly, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'

Who went away justified before God that day?

Grace and Peace

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by BChristianK

Lets borrow a parable…


"Two men went up into a little church chapel to pray, one a committed Christian and the other a practicing homosexual "The Committed Christian stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: secular humanists, pro choice advocates, adulterers, or even like this practicing homosexual. 'I have my morning quiet time; I pay tithes of all that I earn.'

"But the practicing homosexual, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was praying quietly, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'

Who went away justified before God that day?

Grace and Peace

The Sinner, but he should still pay the price for his actions, even if he repented and stopped his evil. The sinner, if he believes, will live in heaven, but should still be executed. Was that supposed to be a trick question? :chuckle:

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by BChristianK

Lets borrow a parable…
"The Committed Christian stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: secular humanists, pro choice advocates, adulterers, or even like this practicing homosexual. 'I have my morning quiet time; I pay tithes of all that I earn.'

Sounds like the Christian was a legalist. :chuckle:

[BChristianK]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

The Sinner, but he should still pay the price for his actions, even if he repented and stopped his evil. The sinner, if he believes, will live in heaven, but should still be executed. Was that supposed to be a trick question? :chuckle:

Ah, he should still pay the price for his actions.

Ok, lets use another bibical character, David.

What was David's sin with bathsheba?

What was the Levitical penalty for that Sin?

Did David suffer the penalty for that sin?

Why?

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

Apparently, you didn't pay much attention to the movie.

That's how he rationalized it.
Take the obese man. He said, "Come on. This is the kind of guy that you see on the subway, and you want to (get this) puke because he is so fat. Why would anyone be so disgusting as to let themselves go like that."

He then forces the guy to eat until he dies.

He shows contempt.
He wants others to agree with him.
He himself was not fat.
The person disgusted him.
And he thought the person deserved death.

[BChristianK]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Sounds like the Christian was a legalist. :chuckle:

Maybe, what does that have to do with the homosexual's justification before God?

[erinmarie]

I think, no, I'm pretty darn sure that children shouldn't be involved in this debate. At some points in this thread, I was shocked at the amount of knowledge they already have on this subject. I don't know about any of you, but I remember being 12 YEARS OLD, and I sure as heck didn't know what sodomy was. And I definitely couldn't have formed this sentence without scratching my head! This is a quote from out resident child wonder:

It's called recriminalize Bestiality, Adultery, and Homosexuality, and reinstate, celebacy until marriage, beetween a man and a woman.

I'm very sure that the inborn hate that is bred in these very young posters is an abomination. And this hate is almost searing in essence. I know that homosexuality is a sin, I know that it is wrong, and if the sinner does not repent and stop committing the sin, they are certainly going to hell. Anything, any conversation outside of this sure fact is not only fruitless but breeds the type of hate that the world at large, and the young people that will carry the future should be rid of.
Kids- You meet a homosexual couple on the street. You know that yes they are committing a great sin, and yes they are wrong. Hating them doesn't do any good, and in most cases neither does witnessing to them. But if you hate, if you take part in the hateful exercise of "gay-bashing" then you're no better than the racists and the bigots and the people that make this world a mess.
Hitler hated homosexuals, he sent many of them to the death camps, he ordered the gestapo to shoot down many of them in the streets, even men who were just repudiated to be homosexual.
How can prove that someone committed sodomy without a doubt? Are we going to start bringing homosexuals to justice and trying their crimes in a court of law? Are we going to bring forth witnesses and DNA evidence that will ensure they will be tried and put to death by a jury of their peers?

Aside from all that, I know that Aussie Thinker is rough around the edges, and very often wrong but comments like these:


Boy I'd be embarassed at my kids if that happened. Reminds me of the Bumper sticker "My Kid bead up your honor student". That's what happens when your kid gets effeminant.

are not only uncalled for, but have no basis in fact. It's called respecting your elders. And I don't care how much you disagree with them, you don't rip on their offspring.:eek: :ha:

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by BChristianK

Ah, he should still pay the price for his actions.

Ok, lets use another bibical character, David.

What was David's sin with bathsheba?
Adultery and Murder

Originally posted by BChristianK

What was the Levitical penalty for that Sin?
Death.
Originally posted by BChristianK

Did David suffer the penalty for that sin?
Yep, but not directly. His son died and his Kingdom was torn in two.

Originally posted by BChristianK
Why?

God would be unjust to let this go unpunished. So he punished him, with a different sort of pain, equal to death. Another trick question? :chuckle:

[Duder]

Dread Helm -

Hold on a second. You seem to say that God demands "a pound of flesh" whenever someone sins. But if God has a special affection for the actual sinner, he'll take it out on another person not involved in the sin. It doesn't really matter - just so long as God gets His "pound of flesh"?

[Flipper]

Erinmarie:

Are we going to start bringing homosexuals to justice and trying their crimes in a court of law? Are we going to bring forth witnesses and DNA evidence that will ensure they will be tried and put to death by a jury of their peers?

That's pretty much what the Enyartians want, yeah. Except, of course, for the part about the jury. They're not big on "presumed innocence until found guilty."

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by erinmarie

I think, no, I'm pretty darn sure that children shouldn't be involved in this debate. At some points in this thread, I was shocked at the amount of knowledge they already have on this subject. I don't know about any of you, but I remember being 12 YEARS OLD, and I sure as heck didn't know what sodomy was. And I definitely couldn't have formed this sentence without scratching my head!

Is that a problem? It's our generation this evil has come into. Is it wrong for me to fight it? It's a sick world, and if anyone. it's going to be MY generation that will change it.

Originally posted by erinmarie
I'm very sure that the inborn hate that is bred in these very young posters is an abomination. And this hate is almost searing in essence. I know that homosexuality is a sin, I know that it is wrong, and if the sinner does not repent and stop committing the sin, they are certainly going to hell. Anything, any conversation outside of this sure fact is not only fruitless but breeds the type of hate that the world at large, and the young people that will carry the future should be rid of.

I am homophobic. I believe exactly what you said. "Homosexuality is a sin, it is wrong, and if the sinner does not repent and stop committing the sin, they are certainly going to hell." Did I say anything more?

Originally posted by erinmarie
Kids- You meet a homosexual couple on the street. You know that yes they are committing a great sin, and yes they are wrong. Hating them doesn't do any good, and in most cases neither does witnessing to them. But if you hate, if you take part in the hateful exercise of "gay-bashing" then you're no better than the racists and the bigots and the people that make this world a mess.
If you love a homo enough you should tell them: "Homosexuality is a sin, it is wrong, and if the sinner does not repent and stop committing the sin, they are certainly going to hell."

Originally posted by erinmarie
How can prove that someone committed sodomy without a doubt? Are we going to start bringing homosexuals to justice and trying their crimes in a court of law? Are we going to bring forth witnesses and DNA evidence that will ensure they will be tried and put to death by a jury of their peers?

Yes we shall bring them to justice, but not by a commitee, nor shoot them down in the streets. They will be arrested, detained for a quick and speedy trial, and by the evidence of two or three witnesses, shall face the punishment of their iniquities: Execution.

Originally posted by erinmarie
...are not only uncalled for, but have no basis in fact. It's called respecting your elders. And I don't care how much you disagree with them, you don't rip on their offspring.:eek: :ha:

Maybe I was wrong about the bumper sticker thing. It just reminded me of that. Sorry for that if it was uncalled for Aussie. :thumb:

[Dread Helm]

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear Beanieboy:

As I read the many replies I hear all the angry and excited voices in my head, like the crowds that cried to Jesus, "stone her!" when the adulterous woman was brought before him. And it wasn't that he forgave her but that he showed her there was nothing to forgive.

I remember again, "it's all Buddha" and see that, for you, these babbling, angry, executioners have but provided for you an example of how you can be different and provide the opposing force - love. It works!

And, life goes on. As I separate myself from these angry voices here, I find how wonderful it is to be alive. The summer's first lightning bugs are coming out and lighting up the fields near my home at night. And, the whipporwhills have begun calling to each other from the oak trees overhead. Tonight at the full moon, I will ask for special patience and peace for you as I take my walk.

There are some of you, you for example, that you speak, and all I can think is to lower my head, and say, "Thank you, God." Sincerely. It's like God is speaking to me. And I thank you for that, ww, for speaking out.

And thank you for reminding me that I can respond with love instead of anger, and to be appreciative and thankful of all that is around me.

Again, thank you to both of you.

[Duder]

Dread Helm -

I only just noticed your signature, where a guy is shooting a fag to death. I see that you are another hate-filled bigot passing himself off as a Christian.

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear Beanieboy:

As I read the many replies I hear all the angry and excited voices in my head, like the crowds that cried to Jesus, "stone her!" when the adulterous woman was brought before him. And it wasn't that he forgave her but that he showed her there was nothing to forgive.

I remember again, "it's all Buddha" and see that, for you, these babbling, angry, executioners have but provided for you an example of how you can be different and provide the opposing force - love. It works!

And, life goes on. As I separate myself from these angry voices here, I find how wonderful it is to be alive. The summer's first lightning bugs are coming out and lighting up the fields near my home at night. And, the whipporwhills have begun calling to each other from the oak trees overhead. Tonight at the full moon, I will ask for special patience and peace for you as I take my walk.

Smoke that stuff! :chuckle: Leftover maggot infested hippie sandwich anyone? :chew:

[On Fire]

Originally posted by wickwoman
Tonight at the full moon, I will ask for special patience and peace for you as I take my walk.

I knew it! She's a werewolf!

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by Duder

Dread Helm -

I only just noticed your signature, where a guy is shooting a fag to death. I see that you are another hate-filled bigot passing himself off as a Christian.
Actually that is representative of a firing squad as what the punishment should be. Government's Job. And do you not believe I am a Christian? I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and believe that he rose from the dead. Is that just "passing myself off" or am I a True Christian? I'm interested to see your answer.:thumb:

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Duder

Dread Helm -

I only just noticed your signature, where a guy is shooting a fag to death. I see that you are another hate-filled bigot passing himself off as a Christian.

My, Dread, what big teeth you have...

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by beanieboy

My, Dread, what big teeth you have...

My beanie, what a big mouth you have...
(course i'm one to talk... :D ) :crackup:

[Duder]

Dread Helm -

I am afraid that, if you take such pleasure in looking forward to the killing of people you don't like very much, then whoever you accepted into you heart was not Jesus of Nazereth. The scriptures warn of false Christs. Darn it, I think you found one of them.

The happy smiley face after the depiction of an execution is a dead givaway.

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by Duder

Dread Helm -

I am afraid that, if you take such pleasure in looking forward to the killing of people you don't like very much, then whoever you accepted into you heart was not Jesus of Nazereth. The scriptures warn of false Christs. Darn it, I think you found one of them.

The happy. smiley face afdter the depiction of an execution is a dead givaway. Not that I don't like, Criminals. And also, I love Homos enough to tell them that unless they repent they will be sent to hell for eternal damnation. Isn't that more loving, than the nonconfrontational "love" that will "love" them right into hell?
And No, I did accecpt Jesus, the son of the ONE TRUE GOD, into my heart. I'm worried about you, who would love them right to hell. That's not the God of the Bible.

[BChristianK]

Dread Said

Yep, but not directly. His son died and his Kingdom was torn in two.

Well, there’s another who theological can of worms, but, you acknowledge that David didn’t suffer the levitical penalty for the sin of adultery, correct?

You claim that he suffered an equivalent punishment, so tell me then what the following means.

How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit! (Psalm 32:2)


Did the Lord impute iniquity to David or not?
So God, Who prescribed death by stoning for adulterous behavior, was just in commuting David’s sentence, or at the very least, changing the penalty, right?
So when you say:



God would be unjust to let this go unpunished.

God would be unjust for letting the homosexual’s sin from going unpunished in an earthly punishment right?

So you must then conclude that Jesus was unjust for letting the woman caught in adultery go unpunished for her sin, which was the same as David’s, and which, like homosexuality, carried the Levitical penalty of death.

Now, what punishment of pain equal to death did the woman caught in adultery suffer?

Does her lack of punishment make God unjust?

Furthermore, we need to be consistent when dealing with sins, so the levitical penalty for working on the Sabbath was death? What penalty that is either death, or equal to death, does God impose on us today in this “dispensation?”

BTW, your very astute for a 12 year old, keep up the good work.



Grace and Peace

[Dread Helm]

Originally posted by BChristianK

Well, there’s another who theological can of worms, but, you acknowledge that David didn’t suffer the levitical penalty for the sin of adultery, correct?

You claim that he suffered an equivalent punishment, so tell me then what the following means.

Did the Lord impute iniquity to David or not?
So God, Who prescribed death by stoning for adulterous behavior, was just in commuting David’s sentence, or at the very least, changing the penalty, right?
So when you say:
God would be unjust for letting the homosexual’s sin from going unpunished in an earthly punishment right?

So you must then conclude that Jesus was unjust for letting the woman caught in adultery go unpunished for her sin, which was the same as David’s, and which, like homosexuality, carried the Levitical penalty of death.

Now, what punishment of pain equal to death did the woman caught in adultery suffer?

Does her lack of punishment make God unjust?

Furthermore, we need to be consistent when dealing with sins, so the levitical penalty for working on the Sabbath was death? What penalty that is either death, or equal to death, does God impose on us today in this “dispensation?”

BTW, your very astute for a 12 year old, keep up the good work.



Grace and Peace I'll have to get back to you on that. :thumb: I'm still learning, but I'm pretty sure about what I've already said. Also, The Sabbath was for the Dispensation of Law, so is inaplicable for us as Members os the Body.

[Christine]

Originally posted by erinmarie

I think, no, I'm pretty darn sure that children shouldn't be involved in this debate. At some points in this thread, I was shocked at the amount of knowledge they already have on this subject. I don't know about any of you, but I remember being 12 YEARS OLD, and I sure as heck didn't know what sodomy was. And I definitely couldn't have formed this sentence without scratching my head! This is a quote from out resident child wonder:
Erinmaire, why should this be a surprise? My parents taught me when I was 8 or 9 years old what sodomy is. No, I didn't understand all the sex, etc involved and they didn't explain it to me anyway. I did, however, no that it was wrong, abnormal, and not what God intended. They also told me about NAMBLA and other sodomite organizations.



I'm very sure that the inborn hate that is bred in these very young posters is an abomination. And this hate is almost searing in essence. I know that homosexuality is a sin, I know that it is wrong, and if the sinner does not repent and stop committing the sin, they are certainly going to hell. Anything, any conversation outside of this sure fact is not only fruitless but breeds the type of hate that the world at large, and the young people that will carry the future should be rid of.
Erinmarie, I'm not letting my life be overcome with hate.
Kids- You meet a homosexual couple on the street. You know that yes they are committing a great sin, and yes they are wrong. Hating them doesn't do any good, and in most cases neither does witnessing to them. But if you hate, if you take part in the hateful exercise of "gay-bashing" then you're no better than the racists and the bigots and the people that make this world a mess.
You never know whether someone will respond to witnessing or not. BTW: My father used to work for sodomites, I met them, I know what they're like.
Hitler hated homosexuals, he sent many of them to the death camps, he ordered the gestapo to shoot down many of them in the streets, even men who were just repudiated to be homosexual.
The Bible calls for the execution of known sodomites. Just because Hitler did something doesn't make it entirely wrong. Hitler probably had the wrong motives, though.
How can prove that someone committed sodomy without a doubt?
Can't you tell? By the way they talk, act, and carry on. Many times they're more than happy to tell you they're sodomites.
Are we going to start bringing homosexuals to justice and trying their crimes in a court of law? Are we going to bring forth witnesses and DNA evidence that will ensure they will be tried and put to death by a jury of their peers?
Sounds good to me, but in our liberal country, I doubt it will ever happen.

[BChristianK]

The Sabbath was for the Dispensation of Law, so is inaplicable for us as Members os the Body.

A good dispensational answer, just what I thought you woud say.

So, why should the levitical penalties for homosexuality be applicable for us today if the laws of the sabbath aren't?
Doesn't that strike you as a bit inconsistent theologically?

We're all still learning...... :)

Grace and Peace

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Not that I don't like, Criminals. And also, I love Homos enough to tell them that unless they repent they will be sent to hell for eternal damnation. Isn't that more loving, than the nonconfrontational "love" that will "love" them right into hell?
And No, I did accecpt Jesus, the son of the ONE TRUE GOD, into my heart. I'm worried about you, who would love them right to hell. That's not the God of the Bible.

This is false witness.

It is like a father that beats his son so hard, that his kid limps for a week because he said, shut up.

You say, You shouldn't beat your kid like that.
The father says, "which should I do, beat my child because I love him and want to discipline him, or let him do whatever he wants?"

There is an option C. Discipline them, but within reason.
You can slap the hand of a two year old and make them cry. You don't need to take a rod and beat them half an inch from their life.

So what you set up is a lie - a false witness.

And you keep saying that you love homos, and want them to repent (before arresting them and executing them.)
Hollow words.

[Christine]

Originally posted by BChristianK

A good dispensational answer, just what I thought you woud say.

So, why should the levitical penalties for homosexuality be applicable for us today if the laws of the sabbath aren't?
Doesn't that strike you as a bit inconsistent theologically?

We're all still learning...... :)

Grace and Peace
Perhaps it's backed up in the New Testament, unlike keeping the Sabbath.
Yes, I'm still learning.

[BChristianK]

Originally posted by Christine

Perhaps it's backed up in the New Testament, unlike keeping the Sabbath.
Yes, I'm still learning.

Perhaps it is, but if it is, I haven't found it yet.

And I'm still learning too.

Grace and Peace

[beanieboy]

Originally posted by Christine

Perhaps it's backed up in the New Testament, unlike keeping the Sabbath.
Yes, I'm still learning.

There is no death penalty demanded in the NT.

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15:12
And he banished the sodomites from the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22:46
And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he removed from the land.


Do you know what was the sin of sodomites? Let us clear this up before using this word.



1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

1 Timothy 1:10
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,


Greek word used here is "arsenokoitees" what is translated in dictionary as "male sexual pervert". It can mean any pedophile, zoophile, incest-lover, etc. It's not even used in Rom 1:27 what condemns homosexualism besides many other things. Can anybody give us some literature where the same is used for homosexualism outside of the NT?


1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;


Nothing about homosexualism per se.


Nothing AGAINST Homos in the Bible, huh?

Levitical Law demans their death. Was it God's eternal word, or word speaken in certain time, certain place, to certain people?

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

YOURE BIGOTED AGAINS