Purpose Driven Life?

[prayzgod]

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?

[Chileice]

It is a great book that is revolutionizing church. Some of the best churches in the world are following the ideas presented. The idea of being intentional in church planting and in our lives is a wonderful one.

[billwald]

In my 64 years, the Church has been revolutionized several times but nothing has changed.

[temple2006]

I like it. It makes the comfortable afflicted.

[prayzgod]

Here's where I'm at so far:

Preface = 15 different bible versions does not sound too good to me. Sounds like it can cause confusion.

Chapter 2 = Too Calvinistic. God may have a mate for us, but we choose to follow God's will or not. We determine our children by determining our mate. Our children are not a result of souls just floating around waiting for the perfect DNA. They are newly created souls - new creations. God already knows what we choose, because He is not in linear time as we are.

Chapter 4 = Too Calvinistic. Life is not just so we get tested. All bad things that happen to us are not a direct result of God "testing us", but consequences from choices we've made via our free will. There are limited situations of testing, but that appears to be the minority, not the majority.

Chapter 7 = "Jesus, I believe in You and receive You" is not a salvation prayer. See Romans 10:9-11 and John 3:16.

Chapter 8 = 1.-ALL music is not pleasing to God, and God did not invent all music. Satan is a musician as well.
2.-Worship isn't just for God, but is to our benefit as well. Part of worshipping God, is rejoicing in what He has done for us, and celebrating our redemtion.

Chapter 12 = Page 94 quotes the Message bible version of Exodus 33:12-13:

12Moses said to GOD, "Look, you tell me, "Lead this people,' but you don't let me know whom you're going to send with me. You tell me, "I know you well and you are special to me.' 13If I am so special to you, let me in on your plans. That way, I will continue being special to you. Don't forget, this is your people, your responsibility."

The KJV is much better, for it shows that Moses was humble and respectful in his request:

12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.

However, in the Message, it shows Moses as pompous and disrespectful. This book appears to be fruit of New Age Bible Versions. This chapter seems to have the undertone of approaching God in a disrespectful way.

Chapter 19 = The description of characterisitics of fellowship on page 151 seems a bit watered down to me. I think there needs to be more 2 Tim. 4:1-5 to unecumenicalize it a bit. Just my personal preference here.

Chapter 24 = My favorite chapter so far. :thumb: I actually rather enjoyed this chapter very much, and would suggest it to people to read. HOWEVER, I agree with the bible reading and such, but how can one memorize, review, read\understand, and meditate on the bible, when the author advocates 15 different versions, which contradict each other on numberous occasions? Furthermore, which version should I memorize? Which should I study, which should I meditate on? etc...

Chapter 25 = Semi-Calvinistic. Assumes that our troubles are God's plan to grow us. However, God gave up some of His will so that we could have free will. Hence, we bring on many of our troubles ourseves, without God's help in doing it. We can always ask God for help, and learn from the situation at hand.

Well, that's as far as I've gotten so far. :)

[Chileice]

Originally posted by prayzgod

Here's where I'm at so far:

Preface = 15 different bible versions does not sound too good to me. Sounds like it can cause confusion.

Chapter 2 = Too Calvinistic. God may have a mate for us, but we choose to follow God's will or not. We determine our children by determining our mate. Our children are not a result of souls just floating around waiting for the perfect DNA. They are newly created souls - new creations. God already knows what we choose, because He is not in linear time as we are.

Chapter 4 = Too Calvinistic. Life is not just so we get tested. All bad things that happen to us are not a direct result of God "testing us", but consequences from choices we've made via our free will. There are limited situations of testing, but that appears to be the minority, not the majority.

Chapter 7 = "Jesus, I believe in You and receive You" is not a salvation prayer. See Romans 10:9-11 and John 3:16.

Chapter 8 = 1.-ALL music is not pleasing to God, and God did not invent all music. Satan is a musician as well.
2.-Worship isn't just for God, but is to our benefit as well. Part of worshipping God, is rejoicing in what He has done for us, and celebrating our redemtion.

Chapter 12 = Page 94 quotes the Message bible version of Exodus 33:12-13:

12Moses said to GOD, "Look, you tell me, "Lead this people,' but you don't let me know whom you're going to send with me. You tell me, "I know you well and you are special to me.' 13If I am so special to you, let me in on your plans. That way, I will continue being special to you. Don't forget, this is your people, your responsibility."

The KJV is much better, for it shows that Moses was humble and respectful in his request:

12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.

However, in the Message, it shows Moses as pompous and disrespectful. This book appears to be fruit of New Age Bible Versions. This chapter seems to have the undertone of approaching God in a disrespectful way.

Chapter 19 = The description of characterisitics of fellowship on page 151 seems a bit watered down to me. I think there needs to be more 2 Tim. 4:1-5 to unecumenicalize it a bit. Just my personal preference here.

Chapter 24 = My favorite chapter so far. :thumb: I actually rather enjoyed this chapter very much, and would suggest it to people to read. HOWEVER, I agree with the bible reading and such, but how can one memorize, review, read\understand, and meditate on the bible, when the author advocates 15 different versions, which contradict each other on numberous occasions? Furthermore, which version should I memorize? Which should I study, which should I meditate on? etc...

Chapter 25 = Semi-Calvinistic. Assumes that our troubles are God's plan to grow us. However, God gave up some of His will so that we could have free will. Hence, we bring on many of our troubles ourseves, without God's help in doing it. We can always ask God for help, and learn from the situation at hand.

Well, that's as far as I've gotten so far. :)

You appear to have all the answers. Why don't you write your own book?

I don't think Rick wrote the book as some kind of Bible. I don't agree with everything either, but the concepts are great and can be applied in the real world. I'm sure the book seems a bit "ecumenical" because it wasn't written to promote a particular denomination. It was written for Christians in general.

[prayzgod]

You appear to have all the answers. Why don't you write your own book? I don't have all the answers, nor do you, or Rick Warren. Only God does.

Write my own book? Why not? I've written several already. :D

[Lighthouse]

Cahpter 8 sounds like something I might have said. I shall wait until I actually read this book [which may very well never happen], before I give any kind of review on it.

[MST3K]

Originally posted by prayzgod

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?

Prayzgod,
I would agree with everything you've written about Purpose. My husband and I attempted to go through the book with a group at church. Neither one of us could handle it. The book is so saturated in Calvinism that I could hardly believe what I was reading. Yes, the book is good in the fact that its message is to love God and love your neighbor and get the gospel out to the world. So unless you are a Christian who didn't grasp these teachings directly from the Bible, Purpose is a good place to start. The book is basically "the milk" of the Word but I wouldn't even give it to a baby Christian because the constant mixing of Calvinism and free will is enough to make a person insane. I personally would tell a new babe in Christ to start in Acts and read every book the Apostle Paul wrote to the Gentile believers under grace.

I'm glad that there are other Christians out there who saw the holes in Purpose. I think Rick Warren has a wonderful heart for God...but maybe he needs to figure out what Calvinism vs. free will is and quit confusing the already confused Body of Christ.

I got about 1/3 of the way through the book and returned it it Barnes and Noble.

[billwald]

"Chapter 7 = "Jesus, I believe in You and receive You" is not a salvation prayer. See Romans 10:9-11 and John 3:16."

Gee, to bad a "salvation prayer" wasn't written into the Pledge of Allegience for then all Americans would be saved as well as being patroitic.

[Lighthouse]

Is there any such thing as a salvation prayer? I mean, doesn't the word of God merely say that all you have to do is believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord? Of course, believing in your heart is more than most people want to believe it is.

[prayzgod]

MST3K, I'm glad that there are other Christians out there who saw the holes in Purpose. Ditto. :thumb:

billwald, "Chapter 7 = "Jesus, I believe in You and receive You" is not a salvation prayer. See Romans 10:9-11 and John 3:16."

Gee, to bad a "salvation prayer" wasn't written into the Pledge of Allegience for then all Americans would be saved as well as being patroitic. Unfortunatly, just saying a prayer will not get you saved. You actually have to mean it. Did you read Romans 10:9-11?

lighthouse, Is there any such thing as a salvation prayer? I mean, doesn't the word of God merely say that all you have to do is believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord? Of course, believing in your heart is more than most people want to believe it is. Agreed. :)

[Lucky]

Originally posted by prayzgod

Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:
:chuckle:

I lost consciousness by the "8th Day" or so. I don't care for the blah blah blah motivational type garbage. Especially when it's Calvinistic.

[prayzgod]

Yes Lucky, it was quite a challenge to actually finish the book. My husband often heard me complain "man, this book is boring!" Well, we both survived. ( barely )

[prayzgod]

Okay, here's the rest of my "review" hence far:

Chapter 38 - Spreading the Gospel is very important, however the author does not so far state in this book what the Gospel is, and what tools/scriptures, etc. we can use. It's nice that he advoctes doing the great commision, but I'm sure MANY of the people reading his book do not know how, or what that is. One can easily get the mis-conception that just as long as you tell people to "live for God", you're spreading the Gospel. :(

Appendix 3 = It's a shame that the author feels that God didn't keep His promise to preserve the Bible forever (see Psalm 12:6-7). So the author can now choose a translation (out of his top 15)of a particular verse that says what he wants the bible to say. How convient. (I intend on specifically expounding on this a bit later, after some research.)

[karstkid]

Originally posted by prayzgod

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?

Ecumenical? I had the opposite take. He was quite sectarian. His Southern Bapist comes out in many places. Yet, overall I think the book is good. If it helps to get Christians fired up for ministry and evangelism, may the Lord use it.

[Mr. 5020]

I'm reviving this thread for two reasons, one selfish and one unselfish one:

Selfish: I just bought the book and I'm interested in knowing what other people think.

Unselfish: The membership of TOL has changed since this thread died in June of 2004.

[julie21]

We just finished doing it at our church...I had some initial doubts as to the program/campaign, but at the conclusion, admitted that it was good for seekers...was a reminder of what our purpose from God is for those in the faith already, and had t admit that it was great for my husband, who had not read a single book in the 20 yrs we've been together. He has grown in doing the 40 Days, in that he is thinking about the part God wants him to take in this world, and he is looking further into the word than he had. He has never been like me, interested in discussion of the Bible and interpretation...basically just listening to the Sunday service, trying to uphold God in his daily life and knowing he is now saved through belief in Christ. So it has been an agent of change in his life as a Christian.
It is a milk diet, so does not have the meat that those who enjoy delving deeper need...but generally a thumbs up.
During the actual campaign, if you call it that, we merely had Sunday morning slide shows of the scriptures used within the book in the study groups, and these were reinforced/ gone as a whole congregation over by the minister. This part was very boring to me, but I just opened my Bible and read other passages that I am studying elsewhere.

[SOTK]

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?

The Purpose Driven Life book was meant for people in their early and/or new walk as a believer. I don't think it was geared for believers who are further along in their Christian journey.

My Church is currently going through the series of Life Together books which is an off-shoot on the Purpose Driven phillosophy. They are a little watered down but not bad. We are on the second book right now. I've been told by my pastor that they get more challenging the further one gets through the series. Personally, I'm pretty sold on the small group idea. So far, it's been one of the neater things I've been involved with at my church. It's been very rewarding!

[Mr. 5020]

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?I've read both The Purpose Driven Life and The Purpose Driven Church. They are nothing alike.

[Mme Sosostris]

It should be noted that when Prayzgod says she's written several books, she is referring to electronic books on home management that she's self-published. They can be useful, but are written rather badly, and wouldn't actually qualify her as a published author as far as most of us are concerned.

That having been said, her criticisms of _TPDL_ may be legitimate. I would be reluctant to take her word on many things, however.

Just a note.

I gather that _TPDL_ has been helpful and hopeful to many Christians. That sounds good to me.

[Lighthouse]

I gather that _TPDL_ has been helpful and hopeful to many Christians. That sounds good to me.
That means absolutely nothing.

[ParsonJefferson]

I've read through Purpose Driven Life a couple times, and Purpose Driven Church once.

Both are decent books.

On one hand, when you compare them to a lot of the crap you otherwise could read, they're pretty good.

On the other hand, they're pretty good, though neither of them are revolutionary. "PDLife" is something I read, and the whole time was thinking, "Yes, and...?" It was stuff I'd wrestled with years ago. However... there were many people in my church for whom it was a profoundly enlightening book. So how can I fault it for that?



The biggest concerning I have about "PDChurch" is that there are so many thousands of "SaddleBack Wannabe Churches" out there. Their leadership takes this stupid approach of, "If we just do everything like Rick Warren says, our church will explode in expontial growth too!" Dumb logic...

[ddevonb]

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?


After going through the book in a Sunday School class I am amazed that this book is generating the buzz and excitement that it is. This book is simply milk and Christians who have been believers for decades are acting as though it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If you are a Christian and you actually learned from this book... hopefully it's because you recently became a Christian.

If you've been a Christian for years and are excited by this ... grow up and start eating MEAT.

The fact that this book has taken the church by storm is a sign of the general immaturity and lack of sound bible teaching in most churches.... and the lack of personal bible study by the members.

[ParsonJefferson]

After going through the book in a Sunday School class I am amazed that this book is generating the buzz and excitement that it is. This book is simply milk and Christians who have been believers for decades are acting as though it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If you are a Christian and you actually learned from this book... hopefully it's because you recently became a Christian.

If you've been a Christian for years and are excited by this ... grow up and start eating MEAT.

The fact that this book has taken the church by storm is a sign of the general immaturity and lack of sound bible teaching in most churches.... and the lack of personal bible study by the members.

You know what's really, really sad about this? The fact that MANY people in MANY churches are finding this book earth-shaking.

What does it say about the depth of your average pew-sitter?

[SOTK]

You know what's really, really sad about this? The fact that MANY people in MANY churches are finding this book earth-shaking.

What does it say about the depth of your average pew-sitter?

I couldn't agree more. Although I can definitely find extra-biblical books rewarding, there is no substitute for a Small Group getting together to discuss scripture.

I think I mentioned in another thread that I take issue with a lot of Rick Warren's stuff. It bothers me to no end that a lot of Christians place this guy and his writing's on a high pedestal. Does anybody even bother to check out a Christian author with the Bible anymore? Not all, but some of the things that come from Rick Warren are biblically questionable. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a Christian theologian's writings or opinons as long as they are being contrasted with the Bible. It amazes me that so many Christians are just willing to take a person's word for it.

[WandererInFog]

You know what's really, really sad about this? The fact that MANY people in MANY churches are finding this book earth-shaking.

What does it say about the depth of your average pew-sitter?

Mostly it says that our churches are doing a horrifically poor job in actually educating them on the Bible.

[Poly]

Mostly it says that our churches are doing a horrifically poor job in actually educating them on the Bible.

I certainly couldn't agree more.

[WandererInFog]

I certainly couldn't agree more.

I know, for me, this has been a particular source of aggravation in trying to find a good local church to attend. It just really amazes me how little actual education is going, and it seems to really cut across denominations. Sermon's (and even Sunday School classes) seem to have been reduced to little more self-help/self-esteem pep talks with little real content.

[Poly]

I know, for me, this has been a particular source of aggravation in trying to find a good local church to attend.

An aggravation for you and maybe just a few..... hundred more people around here. :)

[Delmar]

An aggravation for you and maybe just a few..... hundred more people around here. :)
We would love to have you at our church! I guarantee there is meat on the plate!

[Poly]

We would love to have you at our church! I guarantee there is meat on the plate!

Trust me. If we lived anywhere close to your church, we'd be there yesterday! :up:

[Servo]

I know, for me, this has been a particular source of aggravation in trying to find a good local church to attend. It just really amazes me how little actual education is going, and it seems to really cut across denominations. Sermon's (and even Sunday School classes) seem to have been reduced to little more self-help/self-esteem pep talks with little real content.


Church's today: meet, greet, eat and retreat.

:yawn:

[TheSheeve]

Life Without Purpose......
What is with this purpose thing? It seems as though we are replacing God with the word (purpose). Life with Purpose, worship with purpose. What about Life W/God and worship w/God. I say to hell with purpose. Lets start living out of sincerity and love. Imagine this; life without purpose. worshiping God and living for God because it is part of who we are as children of God. We are treating God like he is a trophy to be won, instead of the father that just wants a relationship with his children.We need to be disciples not Christians. Following our Rabi (Jesus) for the sole reason of wanting to be like him. Following without knowing where he is leading us and just having faith in our God. It is hard to have passion for something that is purpose driven. If we are focused on a purpose or goal, then how can we be focused on what is right in front of us? If your looking at the end of the road, then you cannot be striving for what is now.



Author notes
Please do not take this as an argument. I have nothing against the book. I just keep seeing the phrase (With Purpose) every where. I would much rather see (with God).

[Jefferson]

Life Without Purpose......
What is with this purpose thing? It seems as though we are replacing God with the word (purpose). Life with Purpose, worship with purpose. What about Life W/God and worship w/God. I say to hell with purpose. Lets start living out of sincerity and love. Imagine this; life without purpose. worshiping God and living for God because it is part of who we are as children of God. We are treating God like he is a trophy to be won, instead of the father that just wants a relationship with his children.We need to be disciples not Christians. Following our Rabi (Jesus) for the sole reason of wanting to be like him. Following without knowing where he is leading us and just having faith in our God. It is hard to have passion for something that is purpose driven. If we are focused on a purpose or goal, then how can we be focused on what is right in front of us? If your looking at the end of the road, then you cannot be striving for what is now.



Author notes
Please do not take this as an argument. I have nothing against the book. I just keep seeing the phrase (With Purpose) every where. I would much rather see (with God).Good first post TheSheeve. Welcome to TOL :wave:

[Chileice]

Life Without Purpose......
What is with this purpose thing? It seems as though we are replacing God with the word (purpose). Life with Purpose, worship with purpose. What about Life W/God and worship w/God. I say to hell with purpose. Lets start living out of sincerity and love. Imagine this; life without purpose. worshiping God and living for God because it is part of who we are as children of God. We are treating God like he is a trophy to be won, instead of the father that just wants a relationship with his children.We need to be disciples not Christians. Following our Rabi (Jesus) for the sole reason of wanting to be like him. Following without knowing where he is leading us and just having faith in our God. It is hard to have passion for something that is purpose driven. If we are focused on a purpose or goal, then how can we be focused on what is right in front of us? If your looking at the end of the road, then you cannot be striving for what is now.



Author notes
Please do not take this as an argument. I have nothing against the book. I just keep seeing the phrase (With Purpose) every where. I would much rather see (with God).

I like your post. But I think that being a Christian and being a disciple are the same thing. We cannot follow Jesus and not follow Jesus. A disciple is a follower of Jesus. So is a Christian. I guess the question is: Are we GOOD followers of Christ? We are ambassadors for Christ. Are we doing a good job? I think doing a good job is growing relationship with the Lord who loves us. I don't think that EXCLUDES purpose from our lives but it certainly opens us up to many serendipitous things that God has for us along the path... if we aren't so purpose driven that we miss them. :angel:

[TheSheeve]

Thanks...
I thought "Christian" meant to be like Christ, which I am not ready to make such a bold statement, were as desciple it to strive to be like Christ.
Thats just my take.

[Poly]

Life Without Purpose......
What is with this purpose thing? It seems as though we are replacing God with the word (purpose). Life with Purpose, worship with purpose. What about Life W/God and worship w/God. I say to hell with purpose. Lets start living out of sincerity and love. Imagine this; life without purpose. worshiping God and living for God because it is part of who we are as children of God. We are treating God like he is a trophy to be won, instead of the father that just wants a relationship with his children.We need to be disciples not Christians. Following our Rabi (Jesus) for the sole reason of wanting to be like him. Following without knowing where he is leading us and just having faith in our God. It is hard to have passion for something that is purpose driven. If we are focused on a purpose or goal, then how can we be focused on what is right in front of us? If your looking at the end of the road, then you cannot be striving for what is now.



Author notes
Please do not take this as an argument. I have nothing against the book. I just keep seeing the phrase (With Purpose) every where. I would much rather see (with God).

I think you've pretty much nailed what is the actual purpose for all Christians.

"worshiping God and living for God because it is part of who we are as children of God."

Well said and welcome!

[cellist]

I'm currently half way through the book (am not doing a chapter a day.) I'm researching it because one of the bible study groups at my church is going through it, and copies of the book were just given to highschool graduates at church.

I'm so far appalled at how blatantly ecumenical it is. Not to mention boooooring. :yawn:

I'm concerned that there are quite a few churches out there that are becoming Purpose Driven Churches.

What's your take, and why?
I prefer the "Promise Driven Life" as the life of the Christian. Ultimately the Gospel (promise) not the law (command) is our true motivator. What I would like to know is, why isn't there more evangel in evangelicalism?

[Mme Sosostris]

That means absolutely nothing.

Sorry if you're disappointed. I find hope, and things that give it, to be rather rare commodities these days.

I'm a Roman Catholic, and haven't read this book; if I did, I certainly wouldn't be approaching it as a serious theological text. My main point in my post was simply that Prayzgod's credentials may be rather less-solid than her comments would indicate. But at all events, not being a fundamentalist, I am probably more inclined to feel positive about books like TPDL than others here may be.

[ParsonJefferson]

Sorry if you're disappointed. I find hope, and things that give it, to be rather rare commodities these days.

I'm a Roman Catholic, and haven't read this book; if I did, I certainly wouldn't be approaching it as a serious theological text. My main point in my post was simply that Prayzgod's credentials may be rather less-solid than her comments would indicate. But at all events, not being a fundamentalist, I am probably more inclined to feel positive about books like TPDL than others here may be.

I don't think anybody should approach The Purpose Driven Life as a serious theological text.


I think of it in somewhat the same way I think of books by Don Miller. They're great to read - thought stimulating, and enjoyable. Nothing wrong with them, but they're hardly the Bible.

[Mme Sosostris]

I don't think anybody should approach The Purpose Driven Life as a serious theological text.


I think of it in somewhat the same way I think of books by Don Miller. They're great to read - thought stimulating, and enjoyable. Nothing wrong with them, but they're hardly the Bible.

My thoughts exactly. If they stimulate people in Christian living, and / or toward actual theological education, I cannot consider them negative.