Justice Theatre

[Knight]

Justice Theatre

ENJOY! (http://www.theologyonline.com/apache.html)

[PastorZ77]

enjoy?

[Gerald]

It's what they'd like to see happen to atheists.

Make more sense now?

[PastorZ77]

Make more sense now?

Less, to be honest.

[Wamba]

That's awesome, Knight. I actually saw that just last night.

[Knight]

I guess PastorZ77 would rather see bad guys kill good guys. :(

[Knight]

Originally posted by Gerald

It's what they'd like to see happen to atheists.

Make more sense now? If you can't add anything relevant to the discussion please don't add anything at all.

Maybe its time you found a new home.

Your act is old and worn out.

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Knight

If you can't add anything relevant to the discussion please don't add anything at all.

Maybe its time you found a new home.

Your act is old and worn out. Hey, cut me some slack! I thought it was cool, too.

For different reasons, sure, but it was still cool...

[Knight]

Originally posted by Gerald

I thought it was cool, too.

For different reasons, sure, but it was still cool... It wasn't.

Like I said... your act is worn out.

You aren't funny.... go away.

[Imrahil]

Nice to see bad guys getting blown up for once.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Imrahil

Nice to see bad guys getting blown up for once. The liberals claim these Iraqi guys were farmers and therefore this video is evidence of a war crime. LOL!!!

Farmers who just happened to be loading anti-aircraft weapons! Man... those farmers must have some big locusts!

[Imrahil]

And I thought cicadas were bad!

[Granite]

Cute. Fundies getting their kicks watching a snuff film.

Don't you people have something better to do?

[Knight]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cute. Fundies getting their kicks watching a snuff film.

Don't you people have something better to do? What could be better than seeing justice be done?

Would you rather see those terrorists killing Americans?

[Granite]

Originally posted by Knight

What could be better than seeing justice be done?

Would you rather see those terrorists killing Americans?

Let's see...if we're going to criticize our enemies for videotaping their brutality for the world to see, why don't we practice what we preach? You're not just dancing on the graves of these people, Knight. You're jumping up and down. That's pretty sickening behavior for a self-anointed paragon of virtue such as yourself.

This is just part of the ugliness and self-righteousness that disgusts me about the church. Do I want to see terrorists killing Americans? What the heck kind of question is that, Knight? I object to you people chortling about watching some foreigners get blown to smithereens, and your response is that I must want terrorists to attack my countrymen. Get a clue.

[Knight]

Originally posted by granite1010

Let's see...if we're going to criticize our enemies for videotaping their brutality for the world to see, why don't we practice what we preach? You're not just dancing on the graves of these people, Knight. You're jumping up and down. That's pretty sickening behavior for a self-anointed paragon of virtue such as yourself.

This is just part of the ugliness and self-righteousness that disgusts me about the church. Do I want to see terrorists killing Americans? What the heck kind of question is that, Knight? I object to you people chortling about watching some foreigners get blown to smithereens, and your response is that I must want terrorists to attack my countrymen. Get a clue. You don't get it do you?

The guys getting blown up in that video want to murder us!!

They would love to murder me and they would love to murder you! They are the enemy! When we kill terrorists we are helping to protect innocent people in Iraq and here at home.

You are on the wrong team.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Knight

You don't get it do you?

The guys getting blown up in that video want to murder us!!

They would love to murder me and they would love to murder you! They are the enemy! When we kill terrorists we are helping to protect innocent people in Iraq and here at home.

You are on the wrong team.

Yes, thank you, Knight. I understand. They are the BAD GUYS. B-A-D. That spells BAD.

Watching them die just for jollies isn't my cup of tea. And for some Christians, well, evidently that's how you guys have a good time. Whatever. At least you're spending this time watching some Iraqis go straight to hell, as opposed to doing some preaching. I'd rather you watch your snippet than turn someone into another fundy.

[satalien]

Yeah, I think I played this video game yesterday.

[aharvey]

Originally posted by Knight

What could be better than seeing justice be done?

Would you rather see those terrorists killing Americans?

Oh, I thought this took place in Iraq. Or were they loading up to fly over here? It's kind of hard to tell from that video. Or are these Iraqi terrorists currently living in their own country, getting ready to do the terrorist thing, by which I'm guessing you mean trying to kill the American soldiers who are currently occupying Iraq?

Don't worry, I get it. Americans kill Iraqis in Iraq for justice; Iraqis kill Americans in Iraq because they (the Iraqis) are evil terrorists. I mean, for crying out loud, they triumphantly post videos on the web of themselves killing Americans; what can be more savage, more evil, more terroriste than that?

[Knight]

Originally posted by aharvey
Don't worry, I get it. Americans kill Iraqis in Iraq for justice; Iraqis kill Americans in Iraq because they (the Iraqis) are evil terrorists. By george I think you have got it!

[aharvey]

Originally posted by Knight

You don't get it do you?

The guys getting blown up in that video want to murder us!! They would love to murder me and they would love to murder you! They are the enemy! When we kill terrorists we are helping to protect innocent people in Iraq and here at home.

You are on the wrong team.

Hmm, those Iraqi attitudes sound familiar...

Originally posted by Dread Helm

He [Arafat] should have thought about that before he became a murdering terrorist financer.

I would not have hesitated to put a bullet in his head.

Originally posted by lighthouse

Neither would I. I would have put one in Saddam's head, if Bush had asked.:chuckle:

Um, the attitudes on both sides seem basically identical to me. They want to murder us, we want to murder them. Problem is, I see the evidence of "us" wanting to murder "them" (e.g., above posts) but I haven't seen much evidence of "them" wanting to murder "us," at least those of "us" not occupying "their" home. Unless, of course, it turns out that the 9/11 gang came from Iraq rather than from our friendly Saudi Arabia.

Anyways, I do see your point. The fact that people hate us so much they want to kill us does make it much more fun to watch us kill them!

[Knight]

Originally posted by aharvey
Um, the attitudes on both sides seem basically identical to me. They want to murder us, we want to murder them. Problem is, I see the evidence of "us" wanting to murder "them" (e.g., above posts) but I haven't seen much evidence of "them" wanting to murder "us," at least those of "us" not occupying "their" home. Unless, of course, it turns out that the 9/11 gang came from Iraq rather than from our friendly Saudi Arabia.

Anyways, I do see your point. The fact that people hate us so much they want to kill us does make it much more fun to watch us kill them! I can see you have no ability to distinguish "killing" from "murdering".

[One Eyed Jack]

That's some precision weaponry.

[Knight]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

That's some precision weaponry. No doubt!

[BillyBob]

I missed this the first time around.

Hats off to our boys!!! :sam:

[Knight]

Originally posted by BillyBob

I missed this the first time around.

Hats off to our boys!!! :sam: Doesn't true justice make you feel good?

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by aharvey

Oh, I thought this took place in Iraq. Or were they loading up to fly over here?

Are you going to pretend that they aren't terrorists?

Are you a Canadian or French?

[Knight]

Originally posted by BillyBob

Are you going to pretend that they aren't terrorists?

Are you a Canadian or French? Liberals have been arguing that these three (in the video) are simple farmers and therefore this video is proof of war crimes.

Farmers loading anti-aircraft weapons. LOL :D

[Imrahil]

What, you mean you don't believe that could be the case? :D

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Knight

Doesn't true justice make you feel good?

It's Exhilarating!

I saw an Apache fly right over us while we drove over a bridge Sunday. It was an amazing thing to see. He was actually flying very low, right down by a river and pulled up when he came to the bridge right as we were crossing it. I was less than 20 feet away from it when it flew over us! I can imagine an Apache is the last thing a lot of terrorists saw in Iraq and Afghanistan. :dead:

The 101st Airborne is stationed in Fort Campbell, about an hour from where I live. I assume that's where he was headed. :banana:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Knight

Liberals have been arguing that these three (in the video) are simple farmers and therefore this video is proof of war crimes.

Farmers loading anti-aircraft weapons. LOL :D


Somebody's flinging some cow-patties, that's for sure!


:liberals: :cow:

[aikido7]

Farmers loading anti-aircraft weapons. LOL

And American farmboys flying aircraft loaded with weapons...

Martin Buber had a phrase for this:
I-IT

A primrose by the river's bend,
a yellow primrose was to him
and nothing more
--William Wordsworth

[BillyBob]

Hey Aikido, I think I hear a helicopter outside your door.

[aikido7]

Is it an African American helicopter?

[BillyBob]

Stick your head out and have a look. :dead:

[ShadowMaid]

I'm not able to watch it :mad:

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by ShadowMaid
I'm not able to watch it :mad:

Plugin issues?

[ShadowMaid]

I have no idea. :sigh:

[Christine]

I didn't watch because it was going to take over an hour to download. I might watch it later though. :)

[Greywolf]

What happens when you click on the link to go to the page?

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

What happens when you click on the link to go to the page?

3 Terrorists die.

[BillyBob]

I've watched it 5 times, that makes 15 dead terrorists! :dead:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by BillyBob

3 Terrorists die. And one truck. :thumb:

The truck looked like it might have been worth something.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
3 Terrorists die.

And to think that we went through all the trouble of sending our armed forces to the Middle East when all we had to do was click a mouse button a couple (hundred?) thousand times. :freak:

It would also explain why I hear BillyBob's mouse crying in pain. :chuckle:

[BillyBob]

Just trying to do my part!!! :banana:

[Knight]

Originally posted by BillyBob

3 Terrorists die. LOL :chuckle:

[Imrahil]

Does anyone know what the shooting at the very beginning of the video is? The terrorists didn't seem to notice it.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Imrahil

Does anyone know what the shooting at the very beginning of the video is? The terrorists didn't seem to notice it. I am not sure... my boys asked me the same question.

[Art Deco]

Originally posted by Knight

LOL :chuckle: Knight what kind of ammo was it, 20 MM or 50 cal.? This is what happens when Islamo Fascists attack the U.S. It's called "Pay-Back." :thumb:

[Balder]

How many here are in favor of holding public, stadium-style executions in the US, as they do in Afghanistan and elsewhere?

Something tells me some of you would buy season tickets and tons of popcorn!

[Knight]

Originally posted by Art Deco

Knight what kind of ammo was it, 20 MM or 50 cal.? This is what happens when Islamo Fascists attack the U.S. It's called "Pay-Back." :thumb: Beats me.... all I know is whatever ammo was used it was certainly effective.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Balder

How many here are in favor of holding public, stadium-style executions in the US, as they do in Afghanistan and elsewhere?

Something tells me some of you would buy season tickets and tons of popcorn! I love to see justice don't you?

I mean... I wish people would just love each other but they don't. Some people have chosen to hurt other people and even murder other people... innocent people. And when people do stuff like this they deserve to be put to death.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Knight

Beats me.... all I know is whatever ammo was used it was certainly effective.

No Kidding! That first guy was turned into a grease spot!

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Sozo

The truck looked like it might have been worth something.

:singer:

Hello... is this thing on?

[Knight]

I don't think the truck(s) were worth anything when the job was done. :)

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Knight

I don't think the truck(s) were worth anything when the job was done. :)

Nope, but they were before the job was done. ;)

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Art Deco
Knight what kind of ammo was it, 20 MM or 50 cal.?

30mm is what I've heard.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
Liberals have been arguing that these three (in the video) are simple farmers and therefore this video is proof of war crimes.

Farmers loading anti-aircraft weapons. LOL :D

What kind of anti-aircraft weapon comes with a plow attached to it?

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

What kind of anti-aircraft weapon comes with a plow attached to it?

Iraqi.

[BillyBob]

I bet there's a camel nearby, too.

[the Sibbie]

It looked like they were having a hard time with that third guy. The aim seemed closer to the smaller truck than to the guy rolling on the ground. It must be hard to steady those things. I feel like saying, "Give that to me! I think you might have missed him!" :nono:

[Greywolf]

Knight, I have the long version of the video (3:32 vs. 1:07). I can send it to you if you'd like.

[BillyBob]

I'd like to see it.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Knight, I have the long version of the video (3:32 vs. 1:07). I can send it to you if you'd like. Is there anything different about it?

[the Sibbie]

I'd like to see it, too!

[Greywolf]

For those who are interested:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2004/01/284085.avi

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
Is there anything different about it?

It shows the truck (the smaller one) pulling up to the site and one of the guys throwing a long, narrow bundle of something out into the field. Two guys then run back and forth between the car and the field. I don't know what the heck they were doing.

[BillyBob]

Didn't work.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

For those who are interested:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2004/01/284085.avi I wish that were in .mov or .mpeg format. :(

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
I wish that were in .mov or .mpeg format. :(

.avi's don't work on macs?

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Didn't work.

The video didn't download or it didn't play?

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

.avi's don't work on macs? They usually do.... but I couldn't make that one work.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

The video didn't download or it didn't play?

I got the soundtrack but no video.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
They usually do.... but I couldn't make that one work.

Converting it as we speak (err... type).

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
I got the soundtrack but no video.

What program are you using to play it?

[the Sibbie]

I can only get the audio...no video...I tried playing it in Winamp and The Playa. Won't play at all in The Playa.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

What program are you using to play it?

Realplayer automatically took over.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by the Sibbie
I can only get the audio...no video...I tried playing it in Winamp and The Playa. Won't play at all in The Playa.

Strange, it worked fine for me in Winamp. Never heard of The Playa (outside of Spanish class anyway). I'm working on converting it to an .mpeg file, like the original one, so hopefully that will work.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Realplayer automatically took over.

Ugh, realplayer.

Try right clicking on the file and going to "Open With" and seeing what's listed there.

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Strange, it worked fine for me in Winamp. Never heard of The Playa (outside of Spanish class anyway). I'm working on converting it to an .mpeg file, like the original one, so hopefully that will work. I just downloaded Winamp recently so I may not know all the ropes, yet.

[Greywolf]

35% converted in 7 minutes.
Computer... too... slow... :dead:

[Crow]

Originally posted by Balder

How many here are in favor of holding public, stadium-style executions in the US, as they do in Afghanistan and elsewhere?

Something tells me some of you would buy season tickets and tons of popcorn!

I wish they did.

I have a couple of young kinfolks who fancy themselves "gangstas" and "hoody boys," which is kind of ridiculous considering they're white kids who've never been in any sort of a fight except the mouthy kind.

I think it would be great to take kids who want to be hoodlums and let them see the end result of a life of crime. It just might make it a bit less attractive.

[Greywolf]

I converted the .avi file to a .mpg. It works (for me at least) in Winamp, WMP, and Quicktime. Unfortunately the conversion significantly increased the filesize (from 12.6 MB to 37 MB). Anyone interested in getting a copy can PM me their email address and I'll send it to them (unless Knight is willing to host it).

[the Sibbie]

Well I got it to work in Real Player after downloading DivX Player (with DivX Codec) 5.2.1.

[SOTK]

Nice video, Knight! :thumb: I like!

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by the Sibbie
Well I got it to work in Real Player after downloading DivX Player (with DivX Codec) 5.2.1.

Any idea why those guys kept running back and forth between the truck and the field?

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I converted the .avi file to a .mpg. It works (for me at least) in Winamp, WMP, and Quicktime. Unfortunately the conversion significantly increased the filesize (from 12.6 MB to 37 MB). Anyone interested in getting a copy can PM me their email address and I'll send it to them (unless Knight is willing to host it). If you convert it to a .mov file it shouldn't increase the file size at all.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Any idea why those guys kept running back and forth between the truck and the field? The are most likely unloading ammo from the truck getting it ready to fire.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
If you convert it to a .mov file it shouldn't increase the file size at all.

I can only find .mov to .avi converters. Any programs you know of?

[the Sibbie]

It also works in Winamp after downloading DivX.

[Greywolf]

Go DivX. :bannana:

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Any idea why those guys kept running back and forth between the truck and the field? My first thought was that they were counting steps, but they paused too many times in between. As they were entering the striped-looking area, their steps seemed more deliberate...but that could just be because the vegetation was high in that area. Perhaps they were checking to see if their weapons were engaged? I still can't figure out where that first round of shots was from.

That video shows only 2 guys on the scene at first then another guy in the whatever it was (tractor?) appeared later on the left. I wonder if he was just off the range of the screen at first or had just pulled up to meet the other 2 guys.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
The are most likely unloading ammo from the truck getting it ready to fire.

I couldn't see that they were carrying anything. If that first thing they carried out was a gun, I figure that the ammo for it would be of a fairly substantial size (I'm no weapons expert mind you, but still). The guy who ran out after the guy with the long object looked like he was carrying something, but why would he drop it so far from the gun if that's what it was? And why would they bother running (which doesn't really seem to make sense under either scenario).

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by the Sibbie
As they were entering the striped-looking area, their steps seemed more deliberate...but that could just be because the vegetation was high in that area.

It looked to me like the stiped area had just been recently mowed/plowed, so I figure that the vegetation would be shorter there if anything.

Originally posted by the Sibbie
Perhaps they were checking to see if their weapons were engaged?

Maybe, but what good does an engaged weapon do just lying on the ground?

Originally posted by the Sibbie
I still can't figure out where that first round of shots was from.

Me either. Judging from the chatter on the radio, there might have been more that one unit, and the mysterious gunfire might have been the sound of gunfire coming over the radio from a different unit's location. (Just a thought.)

Originally posted by the Sibbie
That video shows only 2 guys on the scene at first then another guy in the whatever it was (tractor?) appeared later on the left. I wonder if he was just off the range of the screen at first or had just pulled up to meet the other 2 guys.

It looks like the tractor was moving until one of the guys ran up to it. It also looks like the tractor was about to run over the spot where the first guy had thrown the bundle. I'm thinking that the guy who ran up to the tractor did so to stop the tractor driver from running over what ever he had thrown in the field.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I couldn't see that they were carrying anything. If that first thing they carried out was a gun, I figure that the ammo for it would be of a fairly substantial size (I'm no weapons expert mind you, but still). The guy who ran out after the guy with the long object looked like he was carrying something, but why would he drop it so far from the gun if that's what it was? And why would they bother running (which doesn't really seem to make sense under either scenario). From what I have read it isn't really under dispute that these particular fellas were terrorists.

So I guess you could waste intellectual energy on it if you like but if you ask me its a waste of time.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf
Judging from the chatter on the radio, there might have been more that one unit, and the mysterious gunfire might have been the sound of gunfire coming over the radio from a different unit's location. (Just a thought.) I think that is a good explanation. That's sorta what I was thinking.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
From what I have read it isn't really under dispute that these particular fellas were terrorists.

Well, that depends who you ask. The site that I got the long version of the video from seemed to think that it wasn't really under dispute that the people in the video were farmers.

Originally posted by Knight
So I guess you could waste intellectual energy on it if you like but if you ask me its a waste of time.

What can I say, I like figuring things out. :D

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Well, that depends who you ask. The site that I got the long version of the video from seemed to think that it wasn't really under dispute that the people in the video were farmers.
Oh believe me I realize that some left wing nutballs are asinine enough to actually assert these guys are farmers but left wing nutballs assert a lot of stupid stuff.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
Oh believe me I realize that some left wing nutballs are asinine enough to actually assert these guys are farmers but left wing nutballs assert a lot of stupid stuff.

Said the right wing nutball... ;)

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Said the right wing nutball... ;) Come on man.... do you REALLY think these guys were farming? :doh:

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Knight
Come on man.... do you REALLY think these guys were farming? :doh:

I don't know what they were doing. The guy on the tractor seemed to just be farming. The two guys by the truck were up to something, whether malicious or benign, I don't know. Too many unanswered questions for my taste.

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Greywolf

It looked to me like the stiped area had just been recently mowed/plowed, so I figure that the vegetation would be shorter there if anything. So you are pretty sure it's a tractor then? It definitely looked like it had some sort of grating attachment on it. The strip right behind the tractor was fresh since there it didn't continue in front of it.



Maybe, but what good does an engaged weapon do just lying on the ground?I don't know much about weapons. I guess I thought it could be some sort of bomb or missle.



Me either. Judging from the chatter on the radio, there might have been more that one unit, and the mysterious gunfire might have been the sound of gunfire coming over the radio from a different unit's location. (Just a thought.)Sounds reasonable.



It looks like the tractor was moving until one of the guys ran up to it. It also looks like the tractor was about to run over the spot where the first guy had thrown the bundle. I'm thinking that the guy who ran up to the tractor did so to stop the tractor driver from running over what ever he had thrown in the field. They didn't show much of the tractor pulling up, but it looked like it was already stopped when the guy running over to it was halfway there, from the large truck. Then the guy on the tractor climbed down and the guy that ran up looked like he was doing something on the side or under the tractor. It looked like this guy had some sort or sheet that he pulled from under the tractor.

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I don't know what they were doing. The guy on the tractor seemed to just be farming. The two guys by the truck were up to something, whether malicious or benign, I don't know. Too many unanswered questions for my taste. The guy on the tractor definitely seemed to be meeting the other guys. Why would he just let the guy that ran up start messing with his tractor if he was innocently farming? My guess is the farming thing, or whatever he was doing with the tractor, was just a cover up.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by the Sibbie
So you are pretty sure it's a tractor then? It definitely looked like it had some sort of grating attachment on it. The strip right behind the tractor was fresh since there it didn't continue in front of it.

Pretty sure. It looked like the guy was just plowing the field. That and it certaintly looks like a tractor. (Now if only what they guys had been carrying was that easy to make out.)

Originally posted by the Sibbie
I don't know much about weapons. I guess I thought it could be some sort of bomb or missle.

I don't think that a bomb would do anyone much good out in a field like that, unless they were targeting the people who owned it (not to likely I wouldn't think) or they were testing it (a possibility). The bundle's shape did remind me of the RPG's you commonly see rebel fighters in Iraq using. :think:

Originally posted by the Sibbie
The guy on the tractor definitely seemed to be meeting the other guys. Why would he just let the guy that ran up start messing with his tractor if he was innocently farming? My guess is the farming thing, or whatever he was doing with the tractor, was just a cover up.

I don't think that the guy was messing with the tractor, but rather looking at/for something in front of/under the tractor. See below.

Originally posted by the Sibbie
They didn't show much of the tractor pulling up, but it looked like it was already stopped when the guy running over to it was halfway there, from the large truck. Then the guy on the tractor climbed down and the guy that ran up looked like he was doing something on the side or under the tractor. It looked like this guy had some sort or sheet that he pulled from under the tractor.

If you watch from about 2:10 to 2:17 it looks like the tractor comes to a stop as the guy runs up to it. My guess is that the guy who ran up to the tractor was checking on whatever he had thrown in the field. How does this sound:

The two guys by the truck go to the field (don't really know why they would, but anyhow...). The first guy has an RPG wrapped in some sort of cloth or fabric, and dumps it in the field. The second guy then proceeds to take two loads of ammo out to the field (why he'd dump them so far from the gun, I don't know). They then see the tractor approching and see that it will run over the RPG and/or the ammo they dumped out there. I presume that the farmer wouldn't necessarily be able to see either due to the vegetation. The guy who stopped the tractor goes around the tractor to check on the RPG, while the farmer goes to find out why there are two people on his property or maybe just to chat. At that point the soldiers open fire, killing the farmer. The guy by the tractor trys to get to the RPG (possibly to fire back), requiring him to unwrap it. Obviously he isn't quite fast enough ( :dead: ) and the soldier then kill his companion and the other guys by the trucks.

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by Greywolf

The two guys by the truck go to the field (don't really know why they would, but anyhow...). The first guy has an RPG wrapped in some sort of cloth or fabric, and dumps it in the field. The second guy then proceeds to take two loads of ammo out to the field (why he'd dump them so far from the gun, I don't know). They then see the tractor approching and see that it will run over the RPG and/or the ammo they dumped out there. I presume that the farmer wouldn't necessarily be able to see either due to the vegetation. The guy who stopped the tractor goes around the tractor to check on the RPG, while the farmer goes to find out why there are two people on his property or maybe just to chat. At that point the soldiers open fire, killing the farmer. The guy by the tractor trys to get to the RPG (possibly to fire back), requiring him to unwrap it. Obviously he isn't quite fast enough ( :dead: ) and the soldier then kill his companion and the other guys by the trucks.
Sounds reasonable. The first one may have been a farmer, but the other 2 were soldiers. Farmers run when you shoot at them. Soldiers grab the RPG, unwrap it, and fire back. At least the second 2 were soldiers.

The first rounds were heard, but not on target. The Terrorist soldiers were not sure if anybody was shooting at THEM. There were probably lots of guns going off in the area, and the tractor could have been running making it hard to figure out exactly who was firing where.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Any idea why those guys kept running back and forth between the truck and the field? They were stealing the crop from the farmer they just killed.

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Art Deco

Knight what kind of ammo was it, 20 MM or 50 cal.? This is what happens when Islamo Fascists attack the U.S. It's called "Pay-Back." :thumb:

The Apache uses a 30 mm chain gun that fires explosive rounds.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/apache-helicopter.htm

[BillyBob]

Explosive rounds? That explains a lot!

Cool!

[aharvey]

Hey, Sozo, I just saw your new signature. Has Turbo said anything about this? I remember him posting something a while ago about how "All" doesn't necessarily mean "all" in Scriptures!

[Sozo]

Originally posted by aharvey

Hey, Sozo, I just saw your new signature. Has Turbo said anything about this? I remember him posting something a while ago about how "All" doesn't necessarily mean "all" in Scriptures! Why don't you ask Turbo?

[Mr. 5020]

Who cares if they were farmers. Take 'em out. It's not like farmers are always innocent in Iraq. [Click here (http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2003%20News%20archives/March%202003%20News/25%20news/Iraqi%20farmers%20shot%20down%20two%20US%20helicop ters%20%20aljazeerah.info.htm)]

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Mr. 5020

Who cares if they were farmers. Take 'em out. It's not like farmers are always innocent in Iraq. [Click here (http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2003%20News%20archives/March%202003%20News/25%20news/Iraqi%20farmers%20shot%20down%20two%20US%20helicop ters%20%20aljazeerah.info.htm)] I've been 404'd! :shocked:

[Knight]

Originally posted by aharvey

Hey, Sozo, I just saw your new signature. Has Turbo said anything about this? I remember him posting something a while ago about how "All" doesn't necessarily mean "all" in Scriptures! There are certainly times that "all" is a figure of speech.

But not all the time. :D

[aharvey]

Originally posted by Sozo

Why don't you ask Turbo?

Don't need to. He already brought it up a while ago.

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I don't think that the guy was messing with the tractor, but rather looking at/for something in front of/under the tractor. See below.


If you watch from about 2:10 to 2:17 it looks like the tractor comes to a stop as the guy runs up to it. My guess is that the guy who ran up to the tractor was checking on whatever he had thrown in the field. How does this sound:

The two guys by the truck go to the field (don't really know why they would, but anyhow...). The first guy has an RPG wrapped in some sort of cloth or fabric, and dumps it in the field. The second guy then proceeds to take two loads of ammo out to the field (why he'd dump them so far from the gun, I don't know). They then see the tractor approching and see that it will run over the RPG and/or the ammo they dumped out there. I presume that the farmer wouldn't necessarily be able to see either due to the vegetation. The guy who stopped the tractor goes around the tractor to check on the RPG, while the farmer goes to find out why there are two people on his property or maybe just to chat. At that point the soldiers open fire, killing the farmer. The guy by the tractor trys to get to the RPG (possibly to fire back), requiring him to unwrap it. Obviously he isn't quite fast enough ( :dead: ) and the soldier then kill his companion and the other guys by the trucks. Ok, after looking at it again, I see that the tractor was moving slowly as the other guy is approaching (it's hard to tell with the camera bouncing around). The guy running up looks like he waves to the guy on the tractor to get off/shut off the tractor. I would think if the guy on the tractor didn't know what was up, he would follow the guy that ran up to the other side of the tractor especially if the guy was trying to stop him from running over somethng. I would think the farmer would be curious to see what he was about to run over.


I'm not convinced the farmer had nothing to do with it or that they were immediately worried about the stuff getting run over. The weapon was thrown at least a stripe-length and a half from the fifth stripe (counting right to left) so it probably would have gotten run over the next time the tractor came around. The "ammo" was laid at the right-most edge of the fifth stripe so it wasn't in danger.

I think they were just smuggling the weapon.

I'm not saying what you said isn't a possibility, I just don't think it was the case in this situation.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I don't know what they were doing. The guy on the tractor seemed to just be farming. I don't think so.

The tractor has a large cannon attached to it which is still red hot apparently it had recently been fired.

Which means.... this "farmer" was shooting that cannon within the last couple of minutes.

The "farmer" had fired this weapon so much so that he had run out of ammo. (hence the ammo truck arrives)

Secondly after the "farmer" is destroyed the other "farmer" is frantically attempting to load the ammo into the weapon attached to the tractor. This is the nature of this battle, since the beginning of this war the Iraqis have used non-military buildings and non-military vehicles to mask to camouflage themselves.

These guys weren't farmers.

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Knight

I don't think so.

The tractor has a large cannon attached to it which is still red hot apparently it had recently been fired.

Which means.... this "farmer" was shooting that cannon within the last couple of minutes.

The "farmer" had fired this weapon so much so that he had run out of ammo. (hence the ammo truck arrives)

Secondly after the "farmer" is destroyed the other "farmer" is frantically attempting to load the ammo into the weapon attached to the tractor. This is the nature of this battle, since the beginning of this war the Iraqis have used non-military buildings and non-military vehicles to mask to camouflage themselves.

These guys weren't farmers. That sounds like a reasonable explanation, Knight. But what makes you think that it is a cannon? It does look suspicously tall for just being an exhaust pipe. It also seemed that the tractor had a side compartment that the guy had opened.

[Knight]

Originally posted by the Sibbie

That sounds like a reasonable explanation, Knight. But what makes you think that it is a cannon? Two reasons...

1. It's not pointing up. Tractor exhaust's point straight up. This item is pointing out at an angle towards the front of the vehicle.

2. It's much too long to be a exhaust pipe.

[Lucky]

Originally posted by the Sibbie

I've been 404'd! :shocked:
It looks like this is the article he was trying to link to:

Iraqi Farmers shot down two US helicopters
Agencies

NEAR KARBALA, Iraq, 25 March 2003 — Iraq said yesterday that Iraqi farmers had shot down two US helicopters south of Baghdad and vowed to show the pilots on television, just as it did with other captured and killed soldiers on Sunday. The commander of the US-led invasion of Iraq confirmed the loss of one Apache Longbow helicopter.

“The fate of the crew is uncertain right now. We characterize that crew, two men, as missing in action,” General Tommy Franks told a news briefing at Central Command in Qatar. Iraqi television showed pictures of the downed Apache in a field surrounded by Iraqis waving rifles. The black helicopter, still armed with guided missiles with US markings on them, appeared intact with no sign of having been shot down. Two helmets were shown at the scene but there was no sign of the crew in the television videotape.

Reuters photographer Faleh Kheiber later went to the scene and said the Apache was still loaded with at least two air-to-surface missiles. Eyewitnesses told him it had flown low over palm trees, allowing farmers and soldiers to fire at it.

Franks said the helicopter was one of “between 30 and 40 attacking a particular area”. He denied it had been shot down by farmers but did not say what had forced it out of the air. CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul, accompanying the US Army Fifth Corps 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment, said the unit had been on a nighttime combat mission targeting units of President Saddam Hussein’s elite Republican Guard.

He cited one of the pilots as saying they had run into a “hornet’s nest, a barrage of anti-aircraft fire” near the city of Karbala, 110 km (70 miles) southwest of Baghdad, the closest fighting to the Iraqi capital since the war began last Thursday.

Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf told a news conference: “Farmers shot down two Apaches. We showed one today and might show the second and the pilots.”

“We are holding several other American and British prisoners and we may show some of them,” he said. “They are supporting the criminals, the Zionist regime, and they are talking about the Geneva Convention, so we will continue showing whichever mercenaries fall into our hands.”

“They show Iraqi civilians and lie to the world and say they are Iraqi soldiers and they are not,” he said. “This is not a double standard...this is despicable.”

Iraqi TV spoke to an Iraqi farmer it said had shot down the Apache. “It was shot down by the rifle of a heroic farmer from Karbala, Ali Obeid Mingash, from the Hindiyah tribe. He is a brave fighter, he is one of the sons of great Iraq,” said the TV correspondent with the farmer standing by him smiling and holding a rifle.

[Knight]

I have now figured out the machine gun fire you here at the beginning of the clip. Its the regular machine gun fire from the Apache. Which explains why the "farmer" begins to run like a school girl (and I am guessing he filled his pants at that point). The machine gun fire misses because they are out of range for that weapon.

At that point the "farmers" know full well there is an Apache helicopter near by.

The U.S. forces then switch to their long range weapon (the 30 mm laser aimed) cannon.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by aharvey

Don't need to. He already brought it up a while ago. Then why did you say...Has Turbo said anything about this?

[the Sibbie]

Originally posted by Knight

I have now figured out the machine gun fire you here at the beginning of the clip. Its the regular machine gun fire from the Apache. Which explains why the "farmer" begins to run like a school girl (and I am guessing he filled his pants at that point). The machine gun fire misses because they are out of range for that weapon.I did hear the U.S. forces say they had it on laser range and switched to auto. Their camera was shaking when the guy was running " like a school girl". So it does seem that the first round wasn't just sound over the radio.

At that point the "farmers" know full well there is an Apache helicopter near by.

The U.S. forces then switch to their long range weapon (the 30 mm laser aimed) cannon. But I would think the guy that dismounted from the tractor would be running a little faster. Maybe he thought he wouldn't be detected if he walked slower?

[Knight]

Originally posted by the Sibbie
But I would think the guy that dismounted from the tractor would be running a little faster. Maybe he thought he wouldn't be detected if he walked slower? Maybe he was out of shape. :D

Actually these guys grow acustom to machine gun fire and such. And unless the bullets are hitting all around you (like the first guy) they probably are pretty callus to the whole thing.

[BillyBob]

Crow and I were discussing this, does this attack take place at night?

[I don't know how much farming a person can do in the dark]

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Crow and I were discussing this, does this attack take place at night?

[I don't know how much farming a person can do in the dark]

The video was shot about 4:30 in the afternoon. (I presume their local time.)

Look at the upper left corner of the screen. It's kind of blurry, but I'm pretty sure that's a clock.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

The video was shot about 4:30 in the afternoon. (I presume their local time.)

Look at the upper left corner of the screen. It's kind of blurry, but I'm pretty sure that's a clock.

It looks like night vision, doesn't it?

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
It looks like night vision, doesn't it?

Thermal, I think.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Thermal, I think.

Yeah, it's thermal, but I assumed it was being used at night. Why bother with thermal during the day?

:shrug:

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Yeah, it's thermal, but I assumed it was being used at night. Why bother with thermal during the day?

:shrug:

Probably to be able to better see people.

[BillyBob]

That makes sense. It makes it easier to see artillery which is being used, too, I assume.

Man, that first guy was reduced to a 'glowing grease spot' instantly. Amazing!

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by Greywolf:
Probably to be able to better see people.
Correct.

Originally posted by Knight:
I have now figured out the machine gun fire you here at the beginning of the clip. Its the regular machine gun fire from the Apache. Which explains why the "farmer" begins to run like a school girl (and I am guessing he filled his pants at that point). The machine gun fire misses because they are out of range for that weapon.
I think the Apache only has 1 machine gun, and that would be the chain gun.

But if one does not have the right range in the computer, it will not shoot the right place. The laser is not for aiming, though, just for getting correct range.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Yorzhik
The laser is not for aiming, though, just for getting correct range. Isn't getting the correct range part of the aiming process?

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by Knight

Isn't getting the correct range part of the aiming process?
Kinda. It's a minor point, but they aren't exactly the same.

When getting the range, you laze once and keep that range for every susbsequent fire at the lazed target and nearby targets.

Lazer aiming; the lazer is being tracked and followed while firing.

[BillyBob]

I just think it's cool we can point a lazer, punch a button and the computer does the rest...... Very Accurately!

You know, these type of weapons are a testament to the free enterprise system and freedom in general!

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by BillyBob

I just think it's cool we can point a lazer, punch a button and the computer does the rest...... Very Accurately!

You know, these type of weapons are a testament to the free enterprise system and freedom in general!
Buyeah!

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Man, that first guy was reduced to a 'glowing grease spot' instantly. Amazing!

I was really impressed with the accuracy of the shots. It looked like almost all of the shots were within a couple feet of their intended target. I don't know how far away the Apache was, but I'd imagine that it was a pretty large distance seeing as how the people in the video didn't notice it.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Greywolf

I was really impressed with the accuracy of the shots. It looked like almost all of the shots were within a couple feet of their intended target. I don't know how far away the Apache was, but I'd imagine that it was a pretty large distance seeing as how the people in the video didn't notice it.

That's what I was thinking. Those helicopters aren't quiet, it may have been a couple miles away or more. [guessing]

Did you see my post where I described having one fly right over me last Sunday? It was the coolest thing!!! We were crossing over a bridge and the Apache was actually flying lower than the road, right down along the river. At the last second he pulled up and buzzed right over our Van! I was looking at it as it came right towards me, cannons and rocket launchers and all!

:singer: "I'm Proud to be an American....."

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by BillyBob
That's what I was thinking. Those helicopters aren't quiet, it may have been a couple miles away or more. [guessing]

Did you see my post where I described having one fly right over me last Sunday? It was the coolest thing!!! We were crossing over a bridge and the Apache was actually flying lower than the road, right down along the river. At the last second he pulled up and buzzed right over our Van! I was looking at it as it came right towards me, cannons and rocket launchers and all!

It's really amazing some of the technology they have today.

Originally posted by BillyBob
:singer: "I'm Proud to be an American....."

You don't say. :chuckle:

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Greywolf

It's really amazing some of the technology they have today.

No doubt. Did you see the howstuffworks link I posted?

[BillyBob]

I saw it, Jack. I Bookmarked it so Mrs. BillyBob can show our boys, they were with us when the Apache buzzed us.

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