Welcome cleo, the baby killer.

[Sozo]

Get a clue, or get lost.

[Benedice]

Another enchanting post from a loving 'Christian'.

[cleo]

Yeah, right. You are obviously the guy to go to for spare clues.:aimiel:
I see that it only took me ten posts to seriously get your goat!:sheep: Does everyone here find it so easy to wind you up, or was it just beginner's luck?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Benedice

Another enchanting post from a loving 'Christian'. You are certainly not one if you defend the murder of babies.

Why don't you get lost?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

Yeah, right. You are obviously the guy to go to for spare clues.:aimiel:
I see that it only took me ten posts to seriously get your goat!:sheep: Does everyone here find it so easy to wind you up, or was it just beginner's luck?

You promoted killing a baby. You're a sick disgusting pervert. I happen to be one of the few people here who has the guts to stand up and expose godless pigs like yourself.

[cleo]

Btw, I don't kill babies. Does "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" mean anything to you, or do you find it quaint and antiquated?

[Benedice]

Sozo! Sozo! Get a hold of yourself! The froth is showing at your mouth!

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

Btw, I don't kill babies. Does "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" mean anything to you, or do you find it quaint and antiquated? Endorsement of the event, is no different than actually performing it.

"And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them"

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good."

[Granite]

Sozo, this is overboard even for you.

Cleo didn't defend murdering the unborn, you know it, and you're just blowing smoke on this thread.

I'm seriously starting to wonder about you, man. At first I just thought something had crawled up an orifice of yours and died a long time ago. Now I think it might be more serious...

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cleo didn't defend murdering the unborn, you know it, and you're just blowing smoke on this thread.


Originally posted by Lucky

Just because he doesn't love her or wants to marry her is no excuse to murder the baby. If she doesn't want to raise it, tell her she should put it up for adoption.

Originally posted by cleo

And Lucky, are you offering to adopt the baby? Talk is cheap. Before you judge and urge OL to harrass this young woman in regard to a pregnancy that is none of your business, you might want to consider being part of the solution. Or are you sufficiently satisfied with your own sanctimony?

[Crow]

Let me ask y'all a question--

Say it was a common practice for white people to get in their pickup trucks and go "coonhunting" in the old KKK tradition.

You know, chase down blacks, beat the crap out of them, and maybe have a hanging and a cross burning afterward. Do a little raping if they run into the womenfolk.

Now say, I've voted for people who support this "sport."

When my neighbors tell me they're going on a "hunt" I don't say a damn thing against it.

When my pastor stands up and says we have to be tolerant and understanding of "coonhunting," I don't say a thing, and I continue to support my church.

I verbalize my support of the right to choose to go "coonhunting."

If my friend wanted to go "coonhunting" and his truck was broke down, I'd drive him to the pickup spot.

Now if I've done this stuff, but never gone "coonhunting," how innocent am I?

[cleo]

Well, gee, Sozo, you just proved that all I suggested was that our judgmental fellow poster do something constructive, like offer to adopt the baby, instead of condemn the young woman who has just been betrayed by a man she must have thought loved her (a church "worship leader", no less!). I'm guessing your excessive reaction to this is because I called your bluff, but we do need to plan for the millions of unwanted children who will be born when abortion is banned. They will need education, health care, social services, and most importantly, adoptive families. I would think that those who are the most vocal opponents of abortion should lead the way in creating homes and a society that is supportive of all of those children who, through no fault of their own, were not conceived in love. I also think you owe me an apology, but I'm not holding my breath. So does Crow, if that nasty "analogy" was directed at me.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

Well, gee, Sozo, you just proved that all I suggested was that our judgmental fellow poster do something constructive, like offer to adopt the baby, instead of condemn the young woman who has just been betrayed by a man she must have thought loved her (a church "worship leader", no less!). Lucky judged righteously. Are you saying that the evidence was not sufficient by her admittal that she was considering an abortion? Do you think abortion is murder?

[Granite]

Cleo: "Talk is cheap. Before you judge and urge OL to harrass this young woman in regard to a pregnancy that is none of your business, you might want to consider being part of the solution. Or are you sufficiently satisfied with your own sanctimony?"

Sozo: "Drop dead." (Paraphrase.)

Crow, anybody else, what did Cleo say or suggest that was so unacceptable? Be part of the solution. Oh, gee. Heavens. Stop the presses, Cleo suggested we get off our behind and put our money where our mouth is. Can't have that, can we.

[Crow]

Originally posted by granite1010
Crow, anybody else, what did Cleo say or suggest that was so unacceptable? Be part of the solution. Oh, gee. Heavens. Stop the presses, Cleo suggested we get off our behind and put our money where our mouth is. Can't have that, can we.

Granite, people are putting their money where their mouths are. There are many resources available for those who wish to give their children up for adoption rather than to abort them. I've posted some of them in the abortion thread I started in current events. They aren't being utilized.

Thousands of families are willing to adopt babies. Antiabortion sites have volunteers who will find financial resources, housing, and medical care for those who need it, and even help them find employment.

Here's (http://www.nurturingnetwork.org/) one of many.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Crow

Granite, people are putting their money where their mouths are. There are many resources available for those who wish to give their children up for adoption rather than to abort them. I've posted some of them in the abortion thread I started in current events. They aren't being utilized.

Thousands of families are willing to adopt babies. Antiabortion sites have volunteers who will find financial resources, housing, and medical care for those who need it, and even help them find employment.

Yes, resources are there, and yes, they aren't being utilized. Cleo was suggesting that some of us on this thread get PERSONALLY involved (not saying you're not, or anything). And she didn't deny that some resources are available. But none of that justifies what Sozo said, and you know it.

[Anne]

BTW, Cleo, it is a lie that there would be millions of unwanted children when abortion is banned. There weren't millions of unwanted children before child killing was de-criminalized so why should there be millions of unwanted children when child killing is re-criminalized.

It has been demonstrated everytime that as soon as any measures are put in place to restrict abortion that (so called unwanted) pregnancies in general drop. These would include measures such as parental notification requirements and medicare not paying for abortions.

When there is no longer a 'choice' to kill babies after conception, then women are much more likely to exercise their 'choice' BEFORE conception, i.e. reduced pregancies. In case you didn't know the most effective way to prevent an (unwanted) pregnancy is to keep one's pants zipped, i.e. abstain.:bannana:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

And she didn't deny that some resources are available. But none of that justifies what Sozo said, and you know it. Your attempts to pervert the facts are pathetic. YOU know exactly what cleo was saying, and YOU just don't like people being criticized for their views that go against God's.

[Crow]

Originally posted by granite1010

Yes, resources are there, and yes, they aren't being utilized. Cleo was suggesting that some of us on this thread get PERSONALLY involved (not saying you're not, or anything). And she didn't deny that some resources are available. But none of that justifies what Sozo said, and you know it.

You have given me a good idea here, Granite. I've asked Knight if it's OK if we start a section of links where a woman, or one of our members who knows a woman in a crisis pregnancy, can easily find help with housing, medical care, employment, adoption if that is their ultimate choice, and schooling. If Knight gives me the go-ahead, I'll get it up and running asap, probably within the week.

I don't always agree with the way Sozo frames everything he says and I'm not going to pursue that any furthur, but I do agree with him that abortion is a vile and evil act, and that no Christian should in any way whatsoever support abortion.

[cattyfan]

gee...within my family there are 6 adopted children and several foster children. Given that we are contributing to the "solution," do I have permission to identify those who support abortion as dumba**es?

and before assumptions are made, 1 adopted girl was first a foster child. she is the daughter of a drunk and a drug user and was adopted at age 7. 2 adopted children are from Korea. 1 adopted boy is biracial. 1 adopted boy is black. 1 adopted girl is white, but is the result of a one night stand.

Is that diverse enough?

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

Your attempts to pervert the facts are pathetic. YOU know exactly what cleo was saying, and YOU just don't like people being criticized for their views that go against God's.

Did Cleo support abortion? No. Did Cleo suggest abortion was a good idea? No. You've read into Cleo's post and gone ape, Sozo. Not the first time you've done something like this.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Crow

You have given me a good idea here, Granite. I've asked Knight if it's OK if we start a section of links where a woman, or one of our members who knows a woman in a crisis pregnancy, can easily find help with housing, medical care, employment, adoption if that is their ultimate choice, and schooling. If Knight gives me the go-ahead, I'll get it up and running asap, probably within the week.

I don't always agree with the way Sozo frames everything he says and I'm not going to pursue that any furthur, but I do agree with him that abortion is a vile and evil act, and that no Christian should in any way whatsoever support abortion.

Putting links out there is a great idea. There's a lot of crisis pregnancy centers out there. (My father started one, many moons ago, that's still flourishing.)

[Crow]

Originally posted by granite1010

Putting links out there is a great idea. There's a lot of crisis pregnancy centers out there. (My father started one, many moons ago, that's still flourishing.)

If your father wants his to be included, please PM me a link, or phone# or address, and a description of services they provide, and I'll be glad to have it to include. I'd like to have as many resources available as possible.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Did Cleo support abortion? YesDid Cleo suggest abortion was a good idea? Left that up to the mother. So basically, apathetic to the child.

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

Yes Left that up to the mother. So basically, apathetic to the child.

Cleo asked people to be part of the solution. That's hardly supporting abortion. Thus far Cleo hasn't said what their opinion is on the subject one way or another.

Anyhow, what are YOU doing about the murder of the unborn? Other than praying to the almighty to end the problem?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cleo asked people to be part of the solution. Apparently, you can't read.Anyhow, what are YOU doing about the murder of the unborn? For one thing, I was the creator and co-director of the Run For Life Festivals for 5 years. We raised hundreds of thousands of dollars that went to homes to support unwed mothers.

[Crow]

Originally posted by Sozo
I was the creator and co-director of the Run For Life Festivals for 5 years. We raised hundreds of thousands of dollars that went to homes to support unwed mothers.

:BRAVO:

[Benedice]

Voteforbabies.com

Good site.

[Knight]

Oh and hey all....

We just had our sixth baby and boy is she cute!

Hey... if anyone is going to murder their baby please stop them. I WILL TAKE THE BABY!

I mean it!!!!!!!!

I will take any baby that is slated for the knife and this offer is NO JOKE.

Please PM me if you know of any baby that is going to be murdered so we can make arrangements to take the baby.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Knight

Oh and hey all....

We just had our sixth baby and boy is she cute!

Hey... if anyone is going to murder their baby please stop them. I WILL TAKE THE BABY!

I mean it!!!!!!!!

I will take any baby that is slated for the knife and this offer is NO JOKE.

Please PM me if you know of any baby that is going to be murdered so we can make arrangements to take the baby.

Hey! I offered first!

Of course it would allow you to catch up. :think:

I get the next one!!

[Yorzhik]

Count me in. Any baby that is unwanted, I'll adopt and love that child. For anyone in a crisis pregnancy, all you have to do is ask.

[Yorzhik]

Oh, and Knight, CONGRADULATIONS!

[Knight]

Originally posted by Yorzhik

Oh, and Knight, CONGRADULATIONS! :thumb:

[Prisca]

Originally posted by Knight

Oh and hey all....

We just had our sixth baby and boy is she cute!

Hey... if anyone is going to murder their baby please stop them. I WILL TAKE THE BABY!

I mean it!!!!!!!!

I will take any baby that is slated for the knife and this offer is NO JOKE.

Please PM me if you know of any baby that is going to be murdered so we can make arrangements to take the baby.

It's so neat to see these strong, Christian fathers so ready to welcome "unwanted babies" into their families. Fact is, there are not enough "unwanted babies" available for those who desperately want them.

So, as great as it is for these dads to open their homes and their arms to these children, there are many couples who are waiting for them - men and women who have been hoping for years to become parents. Imagine the heartache for these couples to know that everyday, a child that could be theirs is being slaughtered by some greedy abortionist. Makes me sick to think of it!

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Becky

It's so neat to see these strong, Christian fathers so ready to welcome "unwanted babies" into their families. Fact is, there are not enough "unwanted babies" available for those who desperately want them.

So, as great as it is for these dads to open their homes and their arms to these children, there are many couples who are waiting for them - men and women who have been hoping for years to become parents. Imagine the heartache for these couples to know that everyday, a child that could be theirs is being slaughtered by some greedy abortionist. Makes me sick to think of it!
You're just being nepotistic.:eek:


Seriously, I do not have the resources to adopt. I do not have the resources to have a child, at all. So I don't do anything that would lead to me having a child.

[BillyBob]

Here is a quote from Skeptic from another thread:

I believe a fetus is a part of a woman's body until it exits her body. I believe that a woman has a moral (in addition to legal) right to chose what to do with her body.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by BillyBob

Here is a quote from Skeptic from another thread:

"I believe a fetus is a part of a woman's body until it exits her body. I believe that a woman has a moral (in addition to legal) right to chose what to do with her body."



As long as she is wearing a seatbelt :rolleyes:

Stupid lawmakers :kookoo:

[Granite]

Why drag Skeptic into this discussion? Other than serving as a punching bag, that is...

[cleo]

Well, Sozo, I see that Billy Bob has joined the discussion, such as it is. Billy Bob has said on other threads that he supports the US occupation of Iraq, which has resulted in the wanton deaths of many thousands of innocent civilians, including women, children, infants, and babies in their mothers' wombs. By the logic you have expressed here, does that make Billy Bob a murderer and a baby-killer? Just wondering.

[Granite]

Cleo, to clear some stuff up: what's your position on abortion, one way or another?

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

Well, Sozo, I see that Billy Bob has joined the discussion, such as it is. Billy Bob has said on other threads that he supports the US occupation of Iraq, which has resulted in the wanton deaths of many thousands of innocent civilians, including women, children, infants, and babies in their mothers' wombs. By the logic you have expressed here, does that make Billy Bob a murderer and a baby-killer? Just wondering.

The intent of our military is to save peoples lives who had been slaughtered by an evil dictator. Do you have evidence that our soldiers have have done otherwise? Are you a commie?

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

The intent of our military is to save peoples lives who had been slaughtered by an evil dictator.
It is impossible to save the lives of people who have been slaughtered. Think about it.
You did not address the question of the children and babies who have been killed in Iraq not by an "evil dictator" but by your president, with the full support of Billy Bob and perhaps you yourself. Regardless of the "intent" of the military, babies are being killed there and you don't seem to care. Maybe you have condemned it elsewhere and I just haven't seen it. I hope you have, because otherwise it would appear that you are a hypocrite and totally insincere in your defense of the lives of babies. Or maybe you think it is OK to kill babies if it is politically expedient? If so, then why do certain moral dilemmas get a free pass in this regard, while others do not?


Are you a commie?
This is too silly for a response.

[Sozo]

cleo... I am against the killing of babies. I am not against war to protect the lives of those who would have been slaughtered :rolleyes: had someone not intervened.

If we had your way, we would all be speaking German.

Answer granite's question.

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

cleo... I am against the killing of babies. I am not against war to protect the lives of those who would have been slaughtered :rolleyes: had someone not intervened.

There is no evidence that these children would have been killed. Just saying so does not make it true. The recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine was quite clear in stating that the death toll among civilians (i.e., women AND CHILDREN) is dramatically higher under the US occupation than it was under Saddam, due to bombing deaths and other war-related violence. Unicef also documented a tremendous increase in malnutrition, but maybe you think slow starvation of children and babies is OK too if justified by a political agenda. Your understanding of the basis for the war is extremely naive, btw, but I suppose that would be the subject for a different thread. At present I am most interested in your callous acceptance and justification of the deaths of so many thousands of Iraqi babies. They are precious in the eyes of God, but apparently not in yours.


If we had your way, we would all be speaking German.
Not such a bad idea....you might actually make more sense in German than you do in English.

Answer granite's question.
I will be happy to answer granite's question after we have explored, to my satisfaction, the issue of your apparent support and collusion in the killing of innocent children, both born and unborn, in Iraq. You may be quite surprised at my answer. However, I am not going to let you off the hook of your own apparent inconsistencies so quickly. Nice try at changing the subject, though.

[Granite]

"Not such a bad idea....you might actually make more sense in German than you do in English."

Jawold. German profanity's even more scatological than English so that'd suit Sozo rather well...

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by cleo

There is no evidence that these children would have been killed. Just saying so does not make it true.

There are mass graves in Iraq filled with the bodies of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children. There are terrorists in Iraq right now killing innocent Iraqi civillians, some of them are children. One thing we know for certain is that Saddam is no longer murdering tens and hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

The recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine was quite clear in stating that the death toll among civilians (i.e., women AND CHILDREN) is dramatically higher under the US occupation than it was under Saddam,

They must not be aware of the hundreds of thousands of people Saddam brutally murdered. Oh wait, New England is the home of many of the commies [democraps] in this country, they aren't interested in truth.

due to bombing deaths and other war-related violence.

Exactly how many children do they claim have been killed by Coalition bombs?

Unicef also documented a tremendous increase in malnutrition, but maybe you think slow starvation of children and babies is OK too if justified by a political agenda.

Sozo doesn't have a political agenda, how often have you seen him posting in the political threads?

Your understanding of the basis for the war is extremely naive, btw, but I suppose that would be the subject for a different thread. At present I am most interested in your callous acceptance and justification of the deaths of so many thousands of Iraqi babies.

How many thousands?

They are precious in the eyes of God, but apparently not in yours.

You are an idiot.

[Sozo]

cleo... Poor attempt on your part to turn the attention off of yourself.

I am against babies, Mothers, Fathers children, etc. from dying in car crashes, fires, tsunamis, etc. But, unfortunately, it happens. For you to claim that there is never the necessity of war, proves that you are both naive and ignorant.

Comparing my view against yours comes to this:

In order to protect innocent lives from those whose agenda it is to oppress and slaughter them for the purpose of selfish ambition is the obligation of those who have it within their power to do so.

I would suspect that you would do the same if someone broke in your house to rape your wife and children. (But, then again, maybe you wouldn't).

There is a huge difference between maintaing order and insuring freedom where casualities are the unfortunate result (primarily by the oppressors, and not those who are there to set the innocent free from them), and your agenda to go in and kill whomever is necessary if it protects your own selfish interests.

[cleo]

Billy Bob, it is touching and sweet for you to jump in to defend your friend, but I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.


Originally posted by BillyBob

One thing we know for certain is that Saddam is no longer murdering tens and hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

No, George Bush is doing that, with full support from you and Sozo. Sozo has said quite emphatically that anyone who does not actively oppose the killing of innocent babies is guilty of murder. He is quick to fling charges of "baby killer"; I am merely pointing out the log in his own eye.

They must not be aware of the hundreds of thousands of people Saddam brutally murdered.
They are well aware. On of the co-investigators in the study lives in Baghdad and has first hand experience living under both regtimes.

Oh wait, New England is the home of many of the commies [democraps] in this country, they aren't interested in truth.
I will assume this is a joke and move on .



Exactly how many children do they claim have been killed by Coalition bombs?
Here is a link to the article so you can inform yourself:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/327/13/931

Sozo doesn't have a political agenda, how often have you seen him posting in the political threads?

As you can see from my post count, I am quite new here and have no idea where he posts and doesn't post. However, abortion is a political issue, make no mistake about it.


You are an idiot.
Right. Too bad Sozo already stole your thunder by calling me a commie, so you had to find another epithet.

[Clete]

Cleo,

I wish to add my name to two lists.

1. If you know of anyone who does want their baby, I will take it. Like Knight and Sozo, I am not kidding or joking around. If there is a baby that I can raise that would otherwise be murdered then by any and all means I will definitely and happily raise the child as though they were my very own.

2. I really, really want to be on the list of people who "owe you an apology"!

You really are tremendously idiotic (really, I'm not just saying this to get on the list)!
To demonstrate, let me ask you a couple of questions…

Is there any such thing as a just war?

Was it morally wrong to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki, wiping out tens of thousands of the enemy to save hundreds of thousands on both sides?

Should Hitler have been allowed to run his nation the way he saw fit? Was it really worth the lives of all those American boys just to save a relatively small percentage of the world's Jews? I mean common, he wouldn't have killed every last Jew on the planet; there would have been plenty left over! Besides! His economy really benefited from the slave labor force, right?

What should have been our response to the 9-11 attacks, or did we deserve what we got?

Why do you advocate the murder of unborn babies?

How about babies who are born? Can we kill them too?

How about the murder of old people, don't you think that the elderly are too big a burden on our society? Wouldn't it be a better, more productive use of our resources to kill everyone over 70 and use the savings to protect the unhatched eggs of Bald Eagles and Northern Spotted Owls?

Again, I am not kidding. I really do want you to answer these questions and display your mindlessness for the world to see!

Resting in Him,
:Clete:

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

cleo... Poor attempt on your part to turn the attention off of yourself.
Wrong. The attention had turned from me to the subject of adoption, and then to Skeptic and then to seat belts. If anything, I invited the attention back on myself by jumping back into the fray to point out your inconsistency. You are the one who seems to be uncomfortable with the turn in the conversation.

I am against babies, Mothers, Fathers children, etc. from dying in car crashes, fires, tsunamis, etc. But, unfortunately, it happens.
These are all tragic accidents. The Iraq war, while tragic, was cynically conceived and recklessly executed without consideration of the spilling of innocent blood. Those who warned of the calamitous consequences were ignored.

For you to claim that there is never the necessity of war, proves that you are both naive and ignorant.
I never claimed any such thing. I never said anything about any war except the current one in Iraq, which is predicated on a string of falsehoods. Either you misunderstood what you read or you are deliberately trying to neutralize my rebuke by putting words in my mouth again. If you think I am naive and ignorant, you will have to prove it by something other than more false witness.

Comparing my view against yours comes to this:

In order to protect innocent lives from those whose agenda it is to oppress and slaughter them for the purpose of selfish ambition is the obligation of those who have it within their power to do so.

I would suspect that you would do the same if someone broke in your house to rape your wife and children. (But, then again, maybe you wouldn't).
Since I am female, I don't have a wife for anyone to rape, so I am sorry to thwart your charming fantasy. Nobody broke into our national "house". We were lied to about the threatl, and innocent children were killed and are being killed as I write this. You continue to defend their deaths. I don't understand this, given your stated opinion.

There is a huge difference between maintaing order and insuring freedom where casualities are the unfortunate result (primarily by the oppressors, and not those who are there to set the innocent free from them), and your agenda to go in and kill whomever is necessary if it protects your own selfish interests.
It is shocking to hear you dismiss the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqi children, born and unborn, as "unfortunate casualties." What do you mean by "your agenda to go in and kill whomever is necessary if it protects your own selfish interests"? That is the agenda of the current administration, supported by you and BillyBob. It is not my agenda, never has been, and never will be.

[Granite]

Clete, Billy Bob, and others find it (understandably) easier to defend the collateral damage of the Iraqi war because we're the ones causing it. Criticizing Saddam for murdering his own people is a safer bet.

Was Saddam a thug and a tyrant? Yep. Did he deserve to get sacked? Sure. Is the war turning into a cluster? Seems that way. Iraqis have been and will continue to be killed by coalition forces--unfortunately that's what happens to civilians in wartime. Deflecting attention from collateral deaths by pointing out Saddam murdered his own countrymen is apples and oranges.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

It is not my agenda, never has been, and never will be.

And Lucky, are you offering to adopt the baby? Talk is cheap. Before you judge and urge OL to harrass this young woman in regard to a pregnancy that is none of your business, you might want to consider being part of the solution. Or are you sufficiently satisfied with your own sanctimony?

This is a blantant rebuke on your part to someone who was looking out for the best interests of the child. YOU are looking out for the interest of the mother. An interest, that is both selfish and evil in nature.

[cleo]

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Is there any such thing as a just war?
Of course there is. Why do you imagine that I think otherwise? I do oppose the current occupation of Iraq, but to extrapolate from that that I would never think there is a "just" war defies logic. Did you really think I said that, or are you letting Sozo do your thinking for you?

What should have been our response to the 9-11 attacks, or did we deserve what we got?
I think we should have hunted Osama Bin Ladin down like the dog that he is. Instead, he is a free man. Bush lied about Osama's connections to Saddam, figuring correctly that many of you were too stupid or to notice the difference, and now over a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis are dead. Go figure.

Why do you advocate the murder of unborn babies?


Other than Sozo's false witness, why would you think I have ever advocated such a thing? Are you another one who will defend the killing or unborn Iraqi babies? I don't get it. Is it a race thing? A religion thing?

How about babies who are born? Can we kill them too?

How about the murder of old people, don't you think that the elderly are too big a burden on our society?
No, I don't agree with you. I don't want to see either babies or old people killed, either here or in Iraq.


Resting in Him,
:Clete:
Maybe it's time for you to wake up from your rest. When Christ set you free, he didn't intend for you to be imprisoned ever again, even by bonds of laziness, ignorance, or intolerance. "Truth smacker"? Yes, from what I have seen on this thread, you do seem intent on smacking down truth whenever it rears its head.

[Lighthouse]

I find it interesting that cleo still hasn't admitted her position. Of course, I'm not surprised she doesn't understand that a Truth Smacker is one who smacks idiots, like her, with the truth. Yes, cleo, I called you an idiot. And you're a commie, too. Actually, you're an idiotic, socialist, pinko, commie, liberal. When Christ sets someone free, He sets them free from sin, and they become slaves of righteousness. And righteousness is intolerant of unrighteousness. Also, all wars have collateral damage. There's no way to change that. There's collateral damage on both sides. But the terrorists are the ones who are intentionally killing innocent civilians. They actually seek them out in order to kill them. Do you think they should be allowed to do so, or should they be stopped?

[Chileice]

Sozo,
If you don't like to interact with people who have differing ideas, get off the forum. This is NOT YOUR forum. Everyone has the right to express themselves within the limits of decency (which you often cross, in my opinion). Why don't you get off cleo's case. You don't have to agree with everything he says, but you should be able to express your differences without resorting to low-life tactics and name calling.

Cleo,
Hang in there. Even though I won't agree with all you say, it's nice to have new blood on TOL.

[Clete]

Originally posted by cleo

Of course there is. Why do you imagine that I think otherwise? I do oppose the current occupation of Iraq, but to extrapolate from that that I would never think there is a "just" war defies logic. Did you really think I said that, or are you letting Sozo do your thinking for you?
I imagined otherwise because if our war in Iraq is not a just war then there is no such thing as a just war.
And no one does my thinking for me.

I think we should have hunted Osama Bin Ladin down like the dog that he is.
We have and are doing just that.

Instead, he is a free man.
You are stupid. If he is alive he is living in a cave or some third world hut, running like a scared rabbit.

Bush lied about Osama's connections to Saddam, figuring correctly that many of you were too stupid or to notice the difference,
You are a bald faced liar. You know that this is not true nor could it be. Everyone and I mean everyone who knew half a wit about what they were talking about believed that the information that the President had been given was true and reasonably accurate, including Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, the entire CIA, the English Secret Service, and anyone else who was in a position to know anything about it.

...and now over a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis are dead. Go figure.
Far fewer than would have been under Saddam's tyrannical rule.

Other than Sozo's false witness, why would you think I have ever advocated such a thing?
Because you do and have. I can read Cleo. You give all kinds of reasons why it would be a bad idea to criminalize abortion, that's what I call advocating the murder of unborn babies.

Are you another one who will defend the killing or unborn Iraqi babies?
Yes. In the context of this discussion, you bet your butt. If it had been necessary to wipe out every man woman and child in the city of Baghdad in order to remove Saddam from power, it would not only have been justified but worth it. The point is that it was not necessary and the limited loss of life, both civilian and miliary is the lowest of any war that has ever been fought!

I don't get it. Is it a race thing? A religion thing?
This question makes very little sense.
Race is a complete non issue.
Religion defines one's worldview and so is undeniably vital to a coherent understanding of anything.

No, I don't agree with you. I don't want to see either babies or old people killed, either here or in Iraq.
Then why not advocate the criminalization of abortion? If you are pissed off about Iraq then the abortion in this country alone should nearly put you into a catatonic state! We've murdered more babies in the last thirty years than there have been grown people killed in all the wars in history combined!

Maybe it's time for you to wake up from your rest.
I never suggested that I was asleep, but I will never stop resting in Him.

When Christ set you free, he didn't intend for you to be imprisoned ever again, even by bonds of laziness, ignorance, or intolerance.
Had you left off "intolerance", you would have made a correct statement. I, being in Christ, hate those things which He hates and am intolerant of those things He is intolerant of, including child killers, homos, adulterers, etc.

"Truth smacker"? Yes, from what I have seen on this thread, you do seem intent on smacking down truth whenever it rears its head.
Only your version of it. It's sort of easy too! :chuckle:


Resting in Him,
Clete

[Granite]

"If it had been necessary to wipe out every man woman and child in the city of Baghdad in order to remove Saddam from power, it would not only have been justified but worth it."

Nice attitude, Clete. One tyrant's life is not worth this much. Of course it happens that Iraqis are brown skinned and have a different culture, so justifying their death is easier that way...

This kind of fanaticism is dangerous and devalues life. See quote below.

[cattyfan]

various posters have been asking since page one for cleo to define her position on abortion. she has so far declined to voice it directly, but her position is clear from her indirect statements and from her defense of those who support abortion.

And her support of those who support abortion is (ironically) in keeping with her choice to attack those who would defend the innocent slaughtered by people like Saddam and her choice to attack those who would fight to free the oppressed in the Middle East.

cleo needn't bother typing out for us that she is pro-abortion for those in the womb and anti-freedom for those outside the womb. Her longform (albeit ill-thought-out) answers are sufficient.

[Granite]

Reading into posts like this is the worst kind of judgmentalism. Funny how you people get so infuriated when people jump to conclusions about what you say or don't say, and yet you feel fine doing the same thing if you think a poster isn't coloring inside the lines.

Cleo, just spit out your opinion and at least put the question to rest.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by cleo

Billy Bob, it is touching and sweet for you to jump in to defend your friend, but I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Sozo is quite capable, but I wanted a piece of the action. I enjoy smacking around lying fools like you.




No, George Bush is doing that,

George Bush is killing children? Our military has the most precise weapons mankind has ever had at it's disposal. Our military takes great pains in targeting only our enemies, unfortunately, they hide among civillian populations and even in schools. If any child has died from a US missle, it is entirely the fault of our enemy. They had a chance to lay down their arms and peacefully surreneder, they chose otherwise. They are now getting help from hippie, commie liberals like yourself who hate America. You are as much an enemy of the US as they are.

with full support from you and Sozo. Sozo has said quite emphatically that anyone who does not actively oppose the killing of innocent babies is guilty of murder.

Yes....so?

He is quick to fling charges of "baby killer"; I am merely pointing out the log in his own eye.

Sozo doesn't want children to die in Iraq anymore than he wants them to die on an abortionists table.


They are well aware. On of the co-investigators in the study lives in Baghdad and has first hand experience living under both regtimes.

Then he must know that Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's. For you or him to claim that the US is no different than Saddam is pure stupidity and political propaganda. If you are an American, I hereby remove your citizenship and give you 24 hours to:

:sozo: Get Out Of My Country!!!




Here is a link to the article so you can inform yourself:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/327/13/931



Frome the article:
We estimate that more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991.

1991? How does this article relate to our current multi-lateral effort in Iraq? Why are you using statistics from 14 years ago?


As you can see from my post count, I am quite new here and have no idea where he posts and doesn't post.

Then you should be more careful with your accusation.

However, abortion is a political issue, make no mistake about it.

That doesn't mean that Sozo has a political agenda.



Right. Too bad Sozo already stole your thunder by calling me a commie, so you had to find another epithet.

You are a commie idiot.

[Granite]

Billy, Iraqi civilians have been killed in the fighting, and inadvertently or otherwise, Americans have done some of the killing. There's no shame in admitting that--it's a consequence of war and it happens in every single war.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by granite1010

Billy, Iraqi civilians have been killed in the fighting, and inadvertently or otherwise, Americans have done some of the killing. There's no shame in admitting that--it's a consequence of war and it happens in every single war.

I have no doubt that civillians have lost their lives in this war, it's inevitable. But the numbers continually get exaggerated for political purposes and it's disgusting. To claim the the US has killed as many civillians as Saddam is nothing short of a lie.

[cleo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Cleo, just spit out your opinion and at least put the question to rest.
But then the terrorists would win!:bannana:
Who needs me to make any sort of statement when apparently our self-appointed prophets think God has given them the gift of infallible discernment regarding other people's thoughts and opinions? I stated earlier that when Sozo addressed my question my satisfaction, then I would answer. He hasn't done so; he has only blown smoke and tried to convince us all that two wrongs make a right. In the meantime I am quite intrigued to see how readily so many here are willing to rationalize slaughter of innocents when it is about appropriating and privatizing the oil reserves of Iraq. Mr. Pfeifer's remark about Baghdad was especially interesting, and reminded me of Herod's genocide of the innocent Hebrew children, in a weird way. I am still waiting for Sozo to lay his all on the altar in this matter. I imagine quite a few more cockroaches will scurry out of the woodwork in the meantime, voicing their inspired divination of what I actually think, which is fine with me. I have to say that I find the casual blasphemy in the form of usurping the place of God that goes on around here amazing. Same goes for all the abusive name-calling. Do the posters here feel they have some kind of dispensation in regard to the place in Matthew where Jesus said anyone who called his brother a fool was in peril of hell-fire? Don't worry, that was just a rhetorical question. I already understand what kind of false witnesses I am dealing with here. Oh, and the part about the cockroaches is just a figure of speech! I'm not actually calling anybody a cockroach.

[Granite]

Cleo, if you're holding out for a straight answer from Sozo, you're wasting time. You don't hold a conversation with Sozo--he yells at you.

Anyway, if you want to play coy and be cloak and dagger, that's your call, but it's also a waste of time. There's a lot of poseurs on TOL and I don't think you're one of them. Square this up and let's move on...

[cattyfan]

originally posted by cleo

I stated earlier that when Sozo addressed my question my satisfaction, then I would answer.

the question of what exactly you believe, cleo, was posed to you on the very first page of this thread and you've been avoiding it ever since. Sozo is just your current excuse for attempting to obfuscate the fact you are pro-abortion.

[cattyfan]

when pinned down, cleo chose to duck out.

[cleo]

Originally posted by cattylitter

when pinned down, cleo chose to duck out.
Please don't flatter yourself. You have not "pinned me down" anywhere except in your own fantasy world. Unlike some here, I have other things to do besides spending every spare moment on the internet, so if you are expecting me to respond to each and every one of your insipid posts, you are bound to be disappointed. In the real world it is called having a life, but I suppose in your alternate reality it is considered "ducking out".
Now, I am getting as tired of repeating myself as I'm sure most of you are reading it, but as you yourself know perfectly well, I expect Sozo to tell us to my satisfaction why killing some innocent children but not others s fine, and why he wouldn't consider people like Billy Bob, or now Clete, who has said he would gladly sacrifice all 5,777,000 citizens of Baghdad in order to "take out" Saddam, to have blood on their hands. As for your assertion that this is only my "latest excuse" for not playing your little forum games by your home turf rules, that statement would certainly imply that I had made "previous excuses". Pray tell, what were those excuses, or stand exposed once again for the false witness that you are. Oh, and for those of you have presumed to know what I think about a variety of subjects I have never discussed here, I actually agree with you that Saddam was a brutal dictator. It is beyond me why your own Ronald Reagan ever armed him to the teeth with the weapons he used to kill all the people whose deaths we all regret. Did Donald Rumsfeld think he was shaking hands with the head of the Iraqi Boy Scouts in the picture below, when he was in Baghdad as Reagan's envoy? If so, no wonder he has botched things so abysmally in Iraq. I hope, for the sake of consistency of your logic, you also hold Reagan and Rumsfeld accountable for the civilian deaths in Iraq. What prudent person would put a loaded gun in the hand of a madman?

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by cleo

.... and why he wouldn't consider people like Billy Bob, or now Clete, who has said he would gladly sacrifice all 5,777,000 citizens of Baghdad in order to "take out" Saddam......



I never said that. And the fact is that we didn't have to kill 5 million people to take out Saddam. You are delusional.

[cleo]

Billy Bob, look at it again, noting the punctuation. I know you didn't say the part about killing everyone in Baghdad; Clete did. Sorry if that wasn't clear to everyone. If you don't believe me, check out Clete's contributions to this thread. The original question did refer to your support of the occupation of Iraq, and I just added Clete and his comment on as an afterthought, since Sozo hasn't castigated him either, as far as I know.

[BillyBob]

The point is that we don't kill many innocent civilians with our precise weapons compared to when we bombed cities during WWII. Nobody wants a single civilian killed except the terrorists. How many military personel do you suppose were occupying the Trade Center Towers when they were hit?

That said, I understand that it is inevitable for innocent civilians to lose their lives during a war and it is certainly tragic. What's even more tragic is that terrorists in Iraq are currently targeting Iraqi civilians. And let's not forget how many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi and Kuwaiti civilians were butchered at the hands of Saddam.





I see I have been immortalized in your Sig, there seems to be a lot of that going around lately! :banana:

'kick the crap out of cleo'......it has a certain rhythm to it. :chuckle:

[cattyfan]

cleo,

why should Sozo be required to answer first? You were asked a most reasonable question at the outset of this thread....long before you decided to use him as an excuse not to answer.

You are a coward who refuses to own your stance as a supporter of abortion. You're also a transparent and sad figure.

You were on line yesterday yet when I posted #65 on this thread. Your name showed clearly as one who was watching this particular thread (haven't you found the area where it tells you who is where on this site?) Your inability to be honest has nothing to do with you having a life away from TOL. Just another example of your dishonesty and inability to deal with reality.

[Granite]

Considering the treatment cleo got the minute she opened her mouth on TOL, why the world do you people think she would WANT to come back?

[BillyBob]

cleo is a 'she'?

[Granite]

Said so...

[BillyBob]

Hmmm.....

[Granite]

(Hunkers down, waiting for BB's retort...)

[cleo]

Originally posted by cattylitter

cleo,

why should Sozo be required to answer first? You were asked a most reasonable question at the outset of this thread....
Catty, "at the outset of this thread" Sozo called me a baby killer, a sick, disgusting pervert, a godless pig, said I advocated murder, and twice told me to get lost. All of this occurred before he posed his question. I don't think I owe anyone who approaches me in such a vile manner anything at all, so I think I am being extraordinarily reasonable, forgiving, and congenial to consent to have any further discourse with him under any circumstance whatsoever. If you think you can bully and badmouth me into submission, you are mistaken. On a complimentary note, your ability to retain the minutia of which ones of dozens of posters were online and observing which segment of which multiple page thread , as well as your psychic gift of knowing who is actually looking at a page and who may have left the page open while going to do something else, is truly impressive. I hope your will find some way to use this gift in the service of our Lord.


Oh, and BillyBob, I am indeed a "she", as I said elsewhere on this thread. Does it surprise you that you were in fact proposing that you and your buds go kick the crap out of a woman, when you made your cheery little remark in the shoutbox yesterday?

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by cleo


Oh, and BillyBob, I am indeed a "she", as I said elsewhere on this thread. Does it surprise you that you were in fact proposing that you and your buds go kick the crap out of a woman, when you made your cheery little remark in the shoutbox yesterday?

I meant it in context of a 'Post' crap kicking, I'm sure you are quite aware of that. I do not advocate violence towards women [although I certainly understand it].

[Granite]

Originally posted by cleo

Catty, "at the outset of this thread" Sozo called me a baby killer, a sick, disgusting pervert, a godless pig, said I advocated murder, and twice told me to get lost. All of this occurred before he posed his question. I don't think I owe anyone who approaches me in such a vile manner anything at all, so I think I am being extraordinarily reasonable, forgiving, and congenial to consent to have any further discourse with him under any circumstance whatsoever. If you think you can bully and badmouth me into submission, you are mistaken. On a complimentary note, your ability to retain the minutia of which ones of dozens of posters were online and observing which segment of which multiple page thread , as well as your psychic gift of knowing who is actually looking at a page and who may have left the page open while going to do something else, is truly impressive. I hope your will find some way to use this gift in the service of our Lord.


Oh, and BillyBob, I am indeed a "she", as I said elsewhere on this thread. Does it surprise you that you were in fact proposing that you and your buds go kick the crap out of a woman, when you made your cheery little remark in the shoutbox yesterday?

:thumb:

Well said!

[cattyfan]

originally posted by cleo

On a complimentary note, your ability to retain the minutia of which ones of dozens of posters were online and observing which segment of which multiple page thread , as well as your psychic gift of knowing who is actually looking at a page and who may have left the page open while going to do something else, is truly impressive. I hope your will find some way to use this gift in the service of our Lord.


I'm sorry...I had attributed to you a level of reading and comprehension that was too generous. I somehow thought you had kept up on the posts well enough you wouldn't be stuck on one of the earlier pages. My mistake. We'll all try to take it more slowly to accomodate your limited abilities.

You'll note, too, I have never called you names, even in my supposed attempts to "bully" you. I have stated how I view you, and your latest posts do nothing to change that view...especially your continuing to duck a direct question which goes to the heart of the original discussion. My assessment stands: you are too cowardly to stand up for your beliefs.

[Benedice]

Hi, Cleo. You know, I found some other 'theology' websites that actually have intelligent people posting on them. And no name-calling from frustrated kids with anger management problems! E-me and I'll give you the URLs.

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Sozo
You promoted killing a baby.Well, if it was yours...

[Crow]

Originally posted by Gerald

Well, if it was yours...

Gerald.....that's enough in that vein. :mad:

Y'all want to get into it with Sozo, be my guest. But leave his kids out of it.

[Lucky]

Originally posted by cleo

I don't think I owe anyone who approaches me in such a vile manner anything at all,
Fair enough. How about those who've approached you "nicely", such as the poster who keeps defending you, granite. Even he wants to know your answer, once and for all:
Originally posted by granite1010

Cleo, if you're holding out for a straight answer from Sozo, you're wasting time. You don't hold a conversation with Sozo--he yells at you.

Anyway, if you want to play coy and be cloak and dagger, that's your call, but it's also a waste of time. There's a lot of poseurs on TOL and I don't think you're one of them. Square this up and let's move on...
Why are you being rude to your biggest defender here by not "squaring it up"?

[Sozo]

:sigh:

[cattyfan]

Originally posted by Benedice

Hi, Cleo. You know, I found some other 'theology' websites that actually have intelligent people posting on them. And no name-calling from frustrated kids with anger management problems! E-me and I'll give you the URLs.

if this place is filled with such a detestable populace whom you apparently consider yourself above, why are you here, Benedice?

And how nice that you're directly cleo to another website....will you be going with her?

[cattyfan]

Originally posted by Lucky

Fair enough. How about those who've approached you "nicely", such as the poster who keeps defending you, granite. Even he wants to know your answer, once and for all:

Why are you being rude to your biggest defender here by not "squaring it up"?


because. Lucky, then cleo would have to stand up as the pro abortion person she is. She would have to acknowledge Sozo defined her correctly, even though the definition offends her. It's easier for her to play word games and pretend she hasn't committed to one side or the other.

She doesn't have the courage of her convictions and by lacking the backbone to admit what she believes, she just prolongs the process. If she just stated her beliefs, then she would actually have to discuss and defend them and she's obviously not capable.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

I expect Sozo to tell us to my satisfaction why killing some innocent children but not others s fine

I responded to your questions. If you are not satisfied, that is your problem. From the tone of your posts, I'd suspect that satisfaction is probably something you've never had.Sozo called me a baby killer, a sick, disgusting pervert, a godless pig, said I advocated murder, and twice told me to get lost. Well, I do try and be nicer to new posters. :angel: I hope your will find some way to use this gift in the service of our Lord. Please don't claim Him as your Lord. Jesus would never advocate giving a woman the right to choose to end the life of their child. Especially when she made the choice to sleep with someone who was not her husband.

[cleo]

Originally posted by Lucky

Fair enough. How about those who've approached you "nicely", such as the poster who keeps defending you, granite. Even he wants to know your answer, once and for all:

Why are you being rude to your biggest defender here by not "squaring it up"?

Thank you, Lucky, for your courteous tone. I agree with you. Granite has been extremely nice, and I returned his courtesy by discussing my views via private message yesterday. I did not want him to feel that I had not been "square" with him, and he now knows where I stand. Now, lest anyone get it into their heads that I am going to accommodate any latecomers to the discussion, no matter how polite they are, anyone else will just have to wait for me to say anything I care to say on my own terms. Those who have major control issues and think they can order others around (not you, Lucky) or that they can wear me down by, shall we say, caterwauling incessantly on the subject, are in for a long battle of wills, to say the least.

[Lighthouse]

I believe that God gave us all the right to choose, whatever we do. But the bottom line is that the right to choose is not what makes it right or wrong. Nor is the right to choose based on right and wrong. Abortion is wrong. And there is no justification for it. The same goes for fornication. I may beleive peopel have the right to choose between right and wrong. But I will not respect those who prefer to choose wrong.

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

Please don't claim Him as your Lord.
He is Lord of the Universe, isn't He? What are you saying, that I am out of this world? Aw, shucks, who would have thought you would pay me a compliment. Still not up to the task of satisfying me. I am starting to see why the truthsmackers feel the need to use such a big phallic symbol in their logo, though. Before any of you get bent out of shape, please note that it was Sozo who chose to sexualize this, i.e. "by the tone of your posts, I'd suspect satisfaction is probably something you've never had. " Classic mysoginistic put-down. Note to Sozo: Don't start something with me if you can't finish it, buddy.
:bannana:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

He is Lord of the Universe, isn't He? What are you saying, that I am out of this world? Aw, shucks, who would have thought you would pay me a compliment. Still not up to the task of satisfying me. I am starting to see why the truthsmackers feel the need to use such a big phallic symbol in their logo, though. Before any of you get bent out of shape, please note that it was Sozo who chose to sexualize this, i.e. "by the tone of your posts, I'd suspect satisfaction is probably something you've never had. " Classic mysoginistic put-down. Note to Sozo: Don't start something with me if you can't finish it, buddy.


Hillary... is that you? :noway:

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Benedice

Hi, Cleo. You know, I found some other 'theology' websites that actually have intelligent people posting on them. And no name-calling from frustrated kids with anger management problems! E-me and I'll give you the URLs.

I'm sure there are a whole host of other sites that cater to the idea that counseling a woman against abortion is indeed "harassment" (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=648983#post648983). This ain't one of 'em.

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

Hillary... is that you? :noway:

Funny. No, but thanks for the compliment. As you probably read, a recent Gallup poll found that Hillary is the most admired woman in America, for the second consecutive year.

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

Don't start something with me if you can't finish it, buddy.
deleted by Crow

[Nineveh]

Ok....

This ain't going anywhere guys. How about we quit now?

[cleo]

Originally posted by Sozo

deleted by Crow .

Oh, please, you can come up with something a little more original, can't you? That one has been around so long that Methuselah kicked the end out of his cradle laughing at it.

:devil:

Ninevah, you are correct. This is unbecoming of any of us, and I apologize to any who may have been offended.

[Lucky]

Originally posted by cleo

Thank you, Lucky, for your courteous tone.
You're welcome. Occasionally I'm courteous to stupid, moronic, idiotic knuckleheads just to see if courtesy is what they really want or if they're just a lying bag of dog poop trying to weasel their way out of a debate. Now let's see...
Now, lest anyone get it into their heads that I am going to accommodate any latecomers to the discussion, no matter how polite they are, anyone else will just have to wait for me to say anything I care to say on my own terms.
Nope, courtesy made no difference whatsoever.

[Mr. 5020]

:darwinsm:

[Mr. 5020]

Originally posted by Lucky

You're welcome. Occasionally I'm courteous to stupid, moronic, idiotic knuckleheads just to see if courtesy is what they really want or if they're just a lying bag of dog poop trying to weasel their way out of a debate. Now let's see...

Nope, courtesy made no difference whatsoever.
SPOTD! (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=649695#post649695) :thumb:

[cleo]

Originally posted by Lucky

Nope, courtesy made no difference whatsoever.

Lucky, you'll notice I said "your courteous TONE". I have at no point mistaken you for a kind or courteous person, and it was pretty obvious that you were trying to set me up. You will have to get up much earlier in the morning if you want to stay one step ahead of me, I'm afraid. I'm sure neither one of us has forgotten that it was my rebuke to your heartless response regarding the young woman OL told us about (who had been impregnated and abandoned by her church worship leader, and was contemplating an abortion) that started this whole ugly exchange in the first place. You did not have any reaction to the despicable behavior of the worship leader, called the young woman a murderer, and said very curtly that OL should "tell her" to put the baby up for adoption. Ninevah thinks I criticized you for suggesting "counseling", but what you suggested IS NOT "counseling" in any meaningful sense of the word. Later in the thread, OL said that after having been "told" what she should do by many people in the church, she had left the congregation and was avoiding everyone, so you can see just how effective burdening someone in crisis with your "righteous judgment" is. If the hateful invective that has been thrown at me since I dared to suggest that Lucky might be better advised to do something constructive like offering to adopt the baby, instead of adding his unasked-for two cents worth to the woman's already miserable situation, then I can see why she wanted to escape any further abuse. Now, however, she is outside the reach of the Christian point of view and the loving support that could have made her situation one she could face. The angry, hostile face of Christianity presented by some of you drives "sinners" (but aren't we all sinners?) from your midst, even though Christ came to "seek and to save that which is lost." I am sure that this woman, knocked up by the church worship leader (and I am not absolving her of the responsibilities for her choices), and judged and condemned but not helped by "Christians" like you, will think long and hard about seeking a relationship with Christ. But you can all "rest in Jesus", smug in your satisfaction that you have judged someone righteously.

[BillyBob]

Wow, I leave for a couple hours and look what I miss! :noway:

[Sozo]

Originally posted by cleo

You will have to get up much earlier in the morning if you want to stay one step ahead of me, I'm afraid.

That's rather unfair. Everyone knows that bats are nocturnal.

[elected4ever]

I have no problem with kicking the crap out of a woman when circumstances call for it. Or a man ether. If you dance to the music then you pay the fiddler. No free rides or uneven rules.

[Mr. 5020]

Originally posted by elected4ever

I have no problem with kicking the crap out of a woman when circumstances call for it. Or a man ether. If you dance to the music then you pay the fiddler. No free rides or uneven rules. :confused:

[elected4ever]

Day or night!

[Mr. 5020]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Day or night!

Still, :confused:

[Mr Jack]

To those who are offering to take a baby from a pregnant woman who wants an abortion,

Do you really think your offers (impressive as they are) will make any difference at all? Women don't just have abortions to avoid raising children (it's easy enough to pt your baby up for adoption as it is), they have them to avoid pregnancy.

[Granite]

It's at least a gesture, Jack.

Nice Christian witness, by the way, for some of you theists out there. Bang-up job with cleo.

What a pack of wolves.

[Eowyn]

Originally posted by Mr Jack

To those who are offering to take a baby from a pregnant woman who wants an abortion,

Do you really think your offers (impressive as they are) will make any difference at all? Women don't just have abortions to avoid raising children (it's easy enough to pt your baby up for adoption as it is), they have them to avoid pregnancy.

That is true, many women want to avoid the pregnancy, don't want to have to deal with it, don't want anyone to know about it, but I think many women don't realize there are actually people out there who will take their baby on the spot. Putting the baby up for adoption might seem overwhelming but to see someone say they will help the mother, get her a place to live (if needed) help her financially, and take the baby when born and find a way to give that baby a home can and does change minds. Not all of course, but it does cause women to reconsider in some cases knowing there is another way. I think it's wonderful to see people offering, genuinely offering, to take a baby that would otherwise be killed:thumb:

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Crow

Gerald.....that's enough in that vein. :mad:

Y'all want to get into it with Sozo, be my guest. But leave his kids out of it. You're right, of course. That remark was over the top, even for me.

:: wanders off in search of a rasp, to file his claws and fangs down a bit ::

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by granite1010


What a pack of wolves.


:dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog:
:dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog: :dog:

[Lighthouse]

:mock::granite:

[Granite]

:yawn:

Please keep in mind in using that smilie you're endorsing the ridicule of the anti-semite bigot who bought it in the first place...

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

:yawn:

Please keep in mind in using that smilie you're endorsing the ridicule of the anti-semite bigot who bought it in the first place...

Crow is an anti-semite bigot?

:nono:

[Clete]

Originally posted by granite1010
Nice Christian witness, by the way, for some of you theists out there. Bang-up job with cleo.

Why thank you! Thank you very much! :D

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

Crow is an anti-semite bigot?

:nono:

No.

Crythvn bought it. You remember THAT charming piece of work...

[Lighthouse]

I'm not making fun of you for being half-Hebrew. It doesn't bother me.

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I'm not making fun of you for being half-Hebrew. It doesn't bother me.

By use of the smilie--and gods help me, I can't believe we're having this discussion--you are. Consider the source, Brandon.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by granite1010

By use of the smilie--and gods help me, I can't believe we're having this discussion--you are. Consider the source, Brandon.

I don't see it that way.

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by granite1010

By use of the smilie--and gods help me, I can't believe we're having this discussion--you are. Consider the source, Brandon.

I had no clue she bought a smilie... until you pointed it out....

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Nineveh

I had no clue she bought a smilie... until you pointed it out.... granite, seriously thinks that people care about him. :chuckle:

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Sozo
granite, seriously thinks that people care about him. :chuckle: Well, I'm sure that people do...

[Granite]

Originally posted by Nineveh

I had no clue she bought a smilie... until you pointed it out....

Sure did. Ah well...what a laugher she was. Convinced I was a member of the Mossad or at least the Evil Zionist Conspiracy in general...:D

[erinmarie]

Originally posted by granite1010

Sure did. Ah well...what a laugher she was. Convinced I was a member of the Mossad or at least the Evil Zionist Conspiracy in general...:D

She was one of the most annoying posters of all time. And evil, and insane and a little stupid too.

:thumb:

[Lighthouse]

And rocky's still a runaway dog. The smilie has nothing to do with your heritage, so shut up.

[Granite]

Originally posted by erinmarie

She was one of the most annoying posters of all time. And evil, and insane and a little stupid too.

:thumb:

:D

I will say this much, she made things entertaining.

[CapnFungi]

Originally posted by cattyfan

because. Lucky, then cleo would have to stand up as the pro abortion person she is. She would have to acknowledge Sozo defined her correctly, even though the definition offends her. It's easier for her to play word games and pretend she hasn't committed to one side or the other.

She doesn't have the courage of her convictions and by lacking the backbone to admit what she believes, she just prolongs the process. If she just stated her beliefs, then she would actually have to discuss and defend them and she's obviously not capable.

Of all the posts on this thread, I want to congradulate cattyfan!

You won the most intelligent post award!

Congrats.

[cattyfan]

:o thanks!

[CapnFungi]

:thumb:

you deserve it. :D

[Turbo]

:up:

[CapnFungi]

are you following me again Turbo?
Time for a new Disguise.

LoL See you guys later!

Its nighty night time.

[Turbo]

:chuckle: