Is divorce and remarriage a sin?

[Lighthouse]

I already know the answer, but my mom is looking for specific Scripture to show her current boyfriend, because they want to be together, but his church teaches that it's a sin, and that he would lose his salvation over it.:rolleyes:

So, please. If you can think of any verses that would work that she could show him, that say it isn't a sin. Please.

[Delmar]

If the guy thinks it is a sin to marry her why does he think it's ok to date her?

[Zakath]

Originally posted by deardelmar

If the guy thinks it is a sin to marry her why does he think it's ok to date her? "Why pay for the cow...";)

[On Fire]

Does he think he is sinless except for this one thing with your mom?

[godrulz]

One would have to look at Jesus' teaching on marriage, divorce, and adultery. Pauline teaching in I Cor. 7 would have relevant principles.

Divorce assumes that remarriage is likely to occur. This is not a heaven or hell issue.

Is your mother divorced? Is your father alive or remarried? Is there any possibility of reconciliation? Is her boyfriend divorced? Is his spouse remarried? Is there any possibility of reconciliation?

Are both parties genuine believers?

[bibleverse2]

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder . . .

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."

(Mark 10:7-12)

"...and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."

(Luke 16:18)

"...the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

(Romans 7:2-3)

"The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God."

(1 Corinthians 7:39-40)

[Redfin]

lighthouse,

Here's a serious and comprehensive study of the topic.

Down But Not Out- A Study of Divorce & Remarriage
In Light of God's Healing Grace (http://www.zianet.com/maxey/DBNOList.htm)

It takes into consideration much that is Biblical but often ignored, and puts lots of the proof-text verses that people often cite, into an overall context.

I hope it is helpful.

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Redfin

lighthouse,

Here's a serious and comprehensive study of the topic.

Down But Not Out- A Study of Divorce & Remarriage
In Light of God's Healing Grace (http://www.zianet.com/maxey/DBNOList.htm)

It takes into consideration much that is Biblical but often ignored, and puts lots of the proof-text verses that people often cite, into an overall context.

I hope it is helpful.

What is his view in a nutshell?

[Mr. 5020]

Originally posted by Zakath

"Why pay for the cow...";) :chuckle: :thumb:

[Zakath]

If you want to understand why it's OK for Christians to divorce and remarry (especially Christian leaders), ask Enyart's followers... he's a remarried divorcè and a minister, IIRC.

[Lighthouse]

delmar-
I've asked the same question.

bibleverse-
Do you know what youre missing? Especially in the verse from Mark and Luke.

Redfin-
Thank you. I'll have to look at them later, though.

Zakath-
Take a wild guess why I posted the question on this website.:rolleyes:

[Mustard Seed]

Why is serial polygamy/polyandry okay? Is this the question you have?

(Sorry lighthouse, after the questioning about the validity of my opinion simply because I'm LDS (Mormon) brought out the childish retort above. Enjoy!)

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Mustard Seed

Why is serial polygamy/polyandry okay? Is this the question you have?
It's not okay.:duh:

(Sorry lighthouse, after the questioning about the validity of my opinion simply because I'm LDS (Mormon) brought out the childish retort above. Enjoy!)
LDS? Does that stand for Learning Disabled :shut:head?

[On Fire]

*wonders why Brandon is tiptoeing toward the backdoor*

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

It's not okay.:duh:


LDS? Does that stand for Learning Disabled :shut:head?

I like the Star Trek movie when they were on earth and Kirk said Spock had to much LDS (instead of LSD) to explain his odd behavior. I thought it was a funny line given my interest and love for Mormons. No disrespect intended.

[Redfin]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Redfin-
Thank you. I'll have to look at them later, though.


You're welcome! I think you'll find it definitely worth your while. :thumb:

[erethnereh]

lighthouse,what church does this guy belong to? In the Catholic church it's not possible unless if your mother had her marriage annulled. But in other churches, that have similar restrictions on remarriage, it may be possible if your mother's divorced husband was abusive or was unfaithful.

[cattyfan]

read the New Testament carefully. There are two acceptable reasons for divorce: adultery and keeping a believer from following their faith. The second can be applied to situations such as having a spouse who badmouths the church or having one who doesn't set a Godly and righteous lead for the household (such as claiming to be Christian, then using Scripture to excuse abusing their wife and children.)

These are the criterium used by the Catholic church to grant annulments and by many other Christian denominations for accepting a divorce/second marriage.

[elohiym]

Originally posted by lighthouse

So, please. If you can think of any verses that would work that she could show him, that say it isn't a sin. Please. Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Simply put, their love will cover the possible sin they think they are commiting. I can't think of a better scripture for your mom to use.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by erethnereh

lighthouse,what church does this guy belong to? In the Catholic church it's not possible unless if your mother had her marriage annulled. But in other churches, that have similar restrictions on remarriage, it may be possible if your mother's divorced husband was abusive or was unfaithful.
Church of Christ. I've already learned thay they are pretty legalistic. I have a friend whose parents go to one, and it's the same place that I went to school in second grade [Christian school, obviously].

Also, my mom's first marriage ended because of her, and I know my dad didn't believe in Christ back then. And neither did my mom. Her second marriage ended because he was committing adultery. Her third marriage ended because of abuse. Her new boyfriend has been married and divorced four times. I don't know the reasons. So the point of contention is why he got divorced.

[Lighthouse]

Redfin-
That's a lot to read.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by cattyfan

read the New Testament carefully. There are two acceptable reasons for divorce: adultery and keeping a believer from following their faith. The second can be applied to situations such as having a spouse who badmouths the church or having one who doesn't set a Godly and righteous lead for the household (such as claiming to be Christian, then using Scripture to excuse abusing their wife and children.)

These are the criterium used by the Catholic church to grant annulments and by many other Christian denominations for accepting a divorce/second marriage.

lighthouse,

I am in complete agreement with cattyfan here. She is right about the two acceptable reasons. I looked into this carefully when my first wife committed adultery, filed for divorce, and took off. Although we both weren't Christians at the time, this later became important to me when I became a Christian. Also, I remarried as a Christian and Mrs. SOTK has also been previously married. Like me, her spouse committed adultery. According to the Bible, especially with regards to the New Testament, I found the reasons cattyfan cited.

Also, with most denominations, our situation would not prevent me from being a Deacon if I was ever asked to be one, however, this doesn't seem to be the case for all denominations which I don't get. To my way of thinking I am excused.

Here's an interesting situation to ponder: marriages are required to be legal in the secular world. Because of this, when one spouse files for divorce, the divorce will occur whether the other spouse wants it too or not. In Washington State, as the respondent, I wasn't even required to show up for court. In other words, I could have not shown up for the legal divorce nor signed anything and the divorce still would have occured. What about this situation? Biblically speaking, would the Christian spouse who did not file for the divorce nor wanted the divorce be considered to be in the wrong for the divorce occuring? :think:

[cattyfan]

Originally posted by SOTK

lighthouse,

I am in complete agreement with cattyfan here. She is right about the two acceptable reasons. I looked into this carefully when my first wife committed adultery, filed for divorce, and took off. Although we both weren't Christians at the time, this later became important to me when I became a Christian. Also, I remarried as a Christian and Mrs. SOTK has also been previously married. Like me, her spouse committed adultery. According to the Bible, especially with regards to the New Testament, I found the reasons cattyfan cited.

Also, with most denominations, our situation would not prevent me from being a Deacon if I was ever asked to be one, however, this doesn't seem to be the case for all denominations which I don't get. To my way of thinking I am excused.

In my case, my first spouse could neither spell nor define the word "fidelity." It was completely foreign to him, but I turned a blind eye for almost a decade.

I had been seeking council with the district bishop (I was Catholic at the time.) When I found the husband had been having an affair with one of my "friends" (he invited he to our home and went upstairs with her while I was there) I asked him to go to counseling with me and he flew into one of his all to common rages. He had violent fits and was physically and verbally abusive. I went to the bishop, who had know me and the situation for years. He said, "My child, you've suffered enough." (so you know it was pretty bad.) The bishop personally oversaw my divorce and anullment proceedings and he continued to counsel me.

He was thrilled for me when I finally found Mr. cattyfan (a.k.a. CleverDan.) He told me my first marriage had met both Biblical criteria for divorce and I should remarry and be happy. Good advice, and I am. Very.


Here's an interesting situation to ponder: marriages are required to be legal in the secular world. Because of this, when one spouse files for divorce, the divorce will occur whether the other spouse wants it too or not. In Washington State, as the respondent, I wasn't even required to show up for court. In other words, I could have not shown up for the legal divorce nor signed anything and the divorce still would have occured. What about this situation? Biblically speaking, would the Christian spouse who did not file for the divorce nor wanted the divorce be considered to be in the wrong for the divorce occuring? :think:

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered. And it's true of the anullment process, too. I had to notify the spouse, but he didn't need to respond at all (and didn't) and it still went through.


I miss the days of "fault" divorce. I didn't get to introduce his shmucky behavior in court and he managegd to look more needy than me. (He had a back injury from a car accident.) The judge gave him almost everything and told me I was capable of taking care of myself. Illinois law sucks and so did my legal counsel.

And when someone asked me for a divorce lawyer recommendation, I recommended my former husband's lawyer.

[Zakath]

So, I wonder what LH decided after all this "helpful" advice from those who really understand what YHWH thinks. :think:

[Turbo]

Hey Zakath, note the forum this thread is in.

[Redfin]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Redfin-
That's a lot to read.

Indeed, but isn't it an important enough subject to invest some time and effort in?

It sounds like your Mom and her boyfriend desperately need to break out of a destructive cycle of failed relationships. The study I linked you to not only provides a sound Biblical basis for doing so, but it emphasizes in a marvelous manner the grace of God as it can work with people wherever they find themselves along the way.

And since it's written by a Church of Christ preacher (although it's not what you might typically expect to hear from one), it may have some additional credibility with the boyfriend.

[Redfin]

So people know what we're referring to -

Originally posted by Redfin

Down But Not Out- A Study of Divorce & Remarriage In Light of God's Healing Grace (http://www.zianet.com/maxey/DBNOList.htm)

[erethnereh]

situation? Biblically speaking, would the Christian spouse who did not file for the divorce nor wanted the divorce be considered to be in the wrong for the divorce occuring?

SOTK, if you take the position that divorce isn't possible, then the divorce would have never really occurred. Sure, they can claim to be married, divorced, or whatever, the law may even support them, but that doesn't mean they are. A similar situation is gay marriage. But, still, if the marriage has been annulled, there are certain legal benefits to divorce, I'd suppose, and so for legal purposes, divorce doesn't seem so bad.



Church of Christ. I've already learned thay they are pretty legalistic. I have a friend whose parents go to one, and it's the same place that I went to school in second grade [Christian school, obviously].

Also, my mom's first marriage ended because of her, and I know my dad didn't believe in Christ back then. And neither did my mom. Her second marriage ended because he was committing adultery. Her third marriage ended because of abuse. Her new boyfriend has been married and divorced four times. I don't know the reasons. So the point of contention is why he got divorced.

lighthouse, it sounds like all those prior marriages could be annulled or somehow not appilcable. But I think if the boyfriend was that concerned about the issue, then he'd never get involved.

[godrulz]

Sometimes there is a difference between what is legal in the land vs what is moral or immoral in God's eyes.

[cattyfan]

Originally posted by godrulz

Sometimes there is a difference between what is legal in the land vs what is moral or immoral in God's eyes.

precisely the point...that's why we've been discussing the only two Biblically acceptable reasons for divorce.

[SOTK]

Originally posted by cattyfan

In my case, my first spouse could neither spell nor define the word "fidelity." It was completely foreign to him, but I turned a blind eye for almost a decade.

I had been seeking council with the district bishop (I was Catholic at the time.) When I found the husband had been having an affair with one of my "friends" (he invited he to our home and went upstairs with her while I was there) I asked him to go to counseling with me and he flew into one of his all to common rages. He had violent fits and was physically and verbally abusive. I went to the bishop, who had know me and the situation for years. He said, "My child, you've suffered enough." (so you know it was pretty bad.) The bishop personally oversaw my divorce and anullment proceedings and he continued to counsel me.

He was thrilled for me when I finally found Mr. cattyfan (a.k.a. CleverDan.) He told me my first marriage had met both Biblical criteria for divorce and I should remarry and be happy. Good advice, and I am. Very.

cattyfan,

I'm sorry you went through that. :( Believe me, I know how it feels and what it's like.

I'm really glad you found CleverDan! :thumb:


Originally posted by cattyfan
That's an excellent point I hadn't considered. And it's true of the anullment process, too. I had to notify the spouse, but he didn't need to respond at all (and didn't) and it still went through.


I miss the days of "fault" divorce. I didn't get to introduce his shmucky behavior in court and he managegd to look more needy than me. (He had a back injury from a car accident.) The judge gave him almost everything and told me I was capable of taking care of myself. Illinois law sucks and so did my legal counsel.

And when someone asked me for a divorce lawyer recommendation, I recommended my former husband's lawyer.

Yes, "fault" divorce should make a come-back! :up: I also didn't get to introduce my spouse's infidelity. :rolleyes: :down: I got stuck with the majority of the bills. :mad: And the ones she was responsible for, she defaulted on! :mad:

It's just plain crappy that the innocents (us) get the short end of the stick!

So, what do you think about my question? I lean towards what godrulz said. In God's eyes, He knows what's going on and what is in my heart. As a Christian, if my spouse files for divorce and I don't want it, God knows my heart and I don't think I would be held responsible, however, what bothers me is that I think many denominations would still choose to believe that I had sinned. What do you think?

[cattyfan]

So, what do you think about my question? I lean towards what godrulz said. In God's eyes, He knows what's going on and what is in my heart. As a Christian, if my spouse files for divorce and I don't want it, God knows my heart and I don't think I would be held responsible, however, what bothers me is that I think many denominations would still choose to believe that I had sinned. What do you think?

divorced legally and divorced using Biblical standards are different. I guess it would come down to whether or not you believed the divorce met the Biblical criteria in spite of you not wanting the dissolution of the marriage.

And if you didn't want the divorce and thought the marriage could have been salvaged, than by Biblical standards it wouldn't meet the criteria...so even if your former spouse remarries, in your own heart you may feel like remarriage would be being unfaithful.

It's very confusing. That's the kind of thing I would have to take to a trusted member of the clergy for guidance.

And in almost all circumstances, divorce is still very painful. I felt embarrassed when I had to say I was divorced...I hated having broken that covenant made before God and with God.

[firechyld]

Hey, neat. My divorce was Biblical.

Kinda funny considering that he was the Christian of the couple.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by SOTK

lighthouse,

I am in complete agreement with cattyfan here. She is right about the two acceptable reasons. I looked into this carefully when my first wife committed adultery, filed for divorce, and took off. Although we both weren't Christians at the time, this later became important to me when I became a Christian. Also, I remarried as a Christian and Mrs. SOTK has also been previously married. Like me, her spouse committed adultery. According to the Bible, especially with regards to the New Testament, I found the reasons cattyfan cited.
Same here.

Also, with most denominations, our situation would not prevent me from being a Deacon if I was ever asked to be one, however, this doesn't seem to be the case for all denominations which I don't get. To my way of thinking I am excused.
The denom I used to attend; the same one Zakath was a pastor in, by the way; was just like that. And if you were just an usher, and you seperated then you had to step down [happened to my dad]. And the pastors were not even allowed to perform wedding ceremonies if even one of the two were divorced. Yet, no one said a thing about all the pregnant teenage girls in the youth group.:kookoo:

Here's an interesting situation to ponder: marriages are required to be legal in the secular world. Because of this, when one spouse files for divorce, the divorce will occur whether the other spouse wants it too or not. In Washington State, as the respondent, I wasn't even required to show up for court. In other words, I could have not shown up for the legal divorce nor signed anything and the divorce still would have occured. What about this situation? Biblically speaking, would the Christian spouse who did not file for the divorce nor wanted the divorce be considered to be in the wrong for the divorce occuring? :think:
That's why I've enver felt my dad should have been looked at the way he was in the A/G. My mom left him, and he didn't want her to.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Redfin

Indeed, but isn't it an important enough subject to invest some time and effort in?

It sounds like your Mom and her boyfriend desperately need to break out of a destructive cycle of failed relationships. The study I linked you to not only provides a sound Biblical basis for doing so, but it emphasizes in a marvelous manner the grace of God as it can work with people wherever they find themselves along the way.

And since it's written by a Church of Christ preacher (although it's not what you might typically expect to hear from one), it may have some additional credibility with the boyfriend.
She said thank you, for the link. I haven't had a chance to read over it yet, and didn't know who wrote it. You rock! Thank you. Now let's all just pray it helps.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by erethnereh

lighthouse, it sounds like all those prior marriages could be annulled or somehow not appilcable. But I think if the boyfriend was that concerned about the issue, then he'd never get involved.
Annulled? They're not Catholic!

Also, I still do not know what his reasons for divorce were.

As for your last sentence, I agree. It really makes no sense to me.

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by SOTK

So, what do you think about my question? I lean towards what godrulz said. In God's eyes, He knows what's going on and what is in my heart. As a Christian, if my spouse files for divorce and I don't want it, God knows my heart and I don't think I would be held responsible, however, what bothers me is that I think many denominations would still choose to believe that I had sinned. What do you think?
If she left you, then she is being unfaithful [see: infidelity]. The grounds are Biblical.:thumb:

[erethnereh]

Annulled? They're not Catholic!
Also, I still do not know what his reasons for divorce were.
As for your last sentence, I agree. It really makes no sense to me.

Yes, I know. I thought they might have something similar in their church.

[bibleverse2]

"...Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried
or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the
husband put away his wife."

(1 Corinthians 7:10-11)

"Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be
for fornication..."

(Matthew 19:9)

"...Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came
together, she was found with child of the Holy
Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man,
and not willing to make her a publick example,
was minded to put her away privily."

(Matthew 1:18-19)

"If any man take a wife... and say, I took this
woman, and when I came to her, I found her not
a maid..."

(Deuteronomy 22:13-14)

[Emo]

Originally posted by lighthouse

because they want to be together, but his church teaches that it's a sin, and that he would lose his salvation over it.:rolleyes:


Lighthouse, do they truely love each other? First, I would recommend a good marriage counselor, someone who would make it a 4 step interview process like this:

Session #1: Couple
Session #2: Groom
Session #3: Bride
Session #4: Couple again

I learned this from Richard Flint, who is a Christian that is a renowned motivational speaker & counselor. He believes that for a relationship/marriage to work you have to learn how to "blend personalities" because you are not going to change who the other person is. Think about it, makes perfect sense.

Secondly, if your mom's boyfriend is a member of the Church of Christ than he is drowning in legalism, as you somewhat pointed out already. If I were him I would find a different church. You've already seen the quoted Scripture on this thread in regards to marriage/divorce so I won't waste your time with that. I've been happily married to my lovely wife for 7 1/2 years & it continues to get even better because of God enriching our lives. But, remember that Christians are human too & they still get divorced everyday (unfortunately) just like everyone else. Remember, as Christians we are not subject to the Law & only your mother & boyfriend and God know their hearts so they should trust in Him to let His Love lead the way. I hope that it really works out this time for the both of them.

[Lighthouse]

Thank you, emohaslove.

bibleverse2-
Learn to say something, instead of quoting scripture. What do you think those verses say? If you can't tell me, then don't post in my threads, or respond to me in any others.:rolleyes: