Interpretation of "World"

[The Edge]

I have a question and would like some input on it. It relates to the use of the word "world" in two specific Bible verses, John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2. Before I bring Strong's Concordance into the discussion, I'll start with my interpretation. In John 3:16, I think the word "world" means every human. God loved every human enough that He gave His Son so that all who believes in Him shall not die but have eternal life. Now in 1 John 2:2, it says "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (NKJV) What I get out of that is that "world" here means people from all over the world, not "every human." I think that is the only correct interpretation because if "world" there meant every human, that would teach universalism, and the rest of the Bible clearly does not teach that everyone is going to be saved.

Now with that being said, it seems there are two uses of the word "world" here used with two subtly different meanings, yet the difference is very important for interpretation. My question comes up when I look it up in Strong's Concordance. It uses the number 2889 for both, which means it's the same greek word used in both verses. Does this mean it has to have the same meaning? For more input, I'll add to this post the definitions from Strong's.

The definitions for "world" (2889) from Strong's follows below this line
--------------------------------------------------------
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars,
'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

3) the world, the universe

4) the circle of the earth, the earth

5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ

7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly

a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

b) of believers only, John 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9; 2 Cor. 5:19

[logos_x]

It means every human in both instances.

[The Edge]

i disagree. if it means every human, than that teaches universalism.

[The Edge]

I'm serious....if "world" means every human in every case, than the Bible is teaching that everyone will be saved and we know that is not the case. In some instances it has to mean "people from every race" or something like that. Are there any other thoughts? I'd really like input....some of the big posters, please come on here and educate me with more than one liners ;)

[SOTL]

While I'm not a "BIG" poster, I'll post anyway! :D

You need to look at the context of 1 John 2:2, it says "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

The audience is a group of believers, hence the inclusion "for our sins"

But then the text continues..."and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

We have a two part text here...the first part is directed at believers who are already saved, and the second part is directed to believers in view of the rest of mankind (sinners).

Christ is the propitiation for our sins (believers) and the sins of the lost. While the sacrifice has been made it is given ONLY to those who accept Christ. Also if Christ was not the propitiation for those who are still sinners where is their hope?

I hope that helps some. :think:

And remember to show the knindness of Christ to even the single line posters.:thumb:

[logos_x]

This is a duplicate thread of this one:


http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18244


....So, here's what I posted there:

"and not for ours only but also for the whole world"

"World"...kosmos...clearly means the same here as it does in John 3:16.
Don't change the meaning merely because you are afraid of a particuar doctrine that you have a bias against and don't understand.

Look at what that statment says..."not for ours only". Is this not refering to those who have believed and recieved reconciliation? Jesus clearly is the propitiation for our sins. But he goes on to say it isn't only for ours...but also for the whole world !

The word translated "whole" is :

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol'-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

And yes...it teaches universal reconciliation.

[SOTL]

Logos :think:

While it teaches that Christ died for the whole world...I don't think I would say that "it teaches universal reconciliation" As you stated, if that was the case then unbelievers are reconciled to God, which is not the case unless they accept Christ first.

[logos_x]

Originally posted by SOTL

Logos :think:

While it teaches that Christ died for the whole world...I don't think I would say that "it teaches universal reconciliation" As you stated, if that was the case then unbelievers are reconciled to God, which is not the case unless they accept Christ first.

If you are refering to those who are ignorant of the fact that Jesus took care of the sin problem...it is only that they don't know about it that they haven't recieved it's benefits yet.

If you are refering to those who hear about their reconciliation to God...but don't believe it...even faith to believe is a gift of God. All it would take is God giving the gift to them to believe.in it to be saved.

The real obsticle to faith is not really hearing the good news...which is "all power is given to the Lord Jesus Christ"..that He HAS reconciled us to Himself.... and has given unto men the gift of reconciliation freely.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

I would say that is universal reconciliation. What would you call it?

[niceval4u]

Not all humans will be saved!! But they will have to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord at the beam seat of Christ. Romans 14:11; 'As I live', says the Lord, 'every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue confess to God.' Once they have confessed God determines whether they are to enter heaven or to be sent into the lake of fire.
Hope this helps.
Love and God Bless
Val

[The Edge]

logos,
Universal salvation cannot be true. Jesus himself said that in the wide and narrow gate speech. And all his parables that talked about poeple being thrown out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. But, even those that go to hell will confess christ once they die, because when they die they will see that the Bible was right, and it'll be too late they will go to hell anyway.

[logos_x]

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phi 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

[The Edge]

Logos, this does not back up your position on universal salvation. Especially your last verse where it says no man can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost. That is simply teaching that people who confess Christ have the Holy Spirit in them, for only the HS can bring someone to salvation; they won't do it on their own. And Rom 14:11 says that everyone will eventually confess Christ....either before they die for salvation, or after they die when they see Him sending them to hell, and they realize that the Bible was right.

[logos_x]

october...that is only your opinion. And it needs to be re-examined.

[The Edge]

in your opinion it needs to be examined. I have been examining it for the past ten (10) years. I don't believe in universal salvation and the Bible does not teach universal salvation.

[logos_x]

You're wrong.

[The Edge]

I'm sorry but I am not wrong on that point. I think most people here will agree with me too.

[God_Is_Truth]

Originally posted by october

I'm sorry but I am not wrong on that point. I think most people here will agree with me too.

while i'm not a universalist, i think 1 John 2:2 is speaking to every human being.

[The Edge]

I don't see how it can, God is Truth. There is no way to interpret it that way without being universalist.

[God_Is_Truth]

Originally posted by october

I don't see how it can, God is Truth. There is no way to interpret it that way without being universalist.

sure there is. Jesus died for all the sins of the world. but it's only credited to them when they believe, just like abraham. he belived and it was credited to him as righteousness. so it is with us now. when we believe, the work of Christ is credited to us and we become righteous. the work of Christ was done for all so all could believe. not all believe, but he has given all opportunity.

[The Edge]

I guess that's one way to look at it without it being universalism.

[billwald]

"God is Truth."

Famous scientist said, "We think we know what '2' is because 1 and 1 is 2 but we havn't begun to understand 'and'." I think same goes for "is."

[Dave Miller]

Originally posted by billwald

"God is Truth."

Famous scientist said, "We think we know what '2' is because 1 and 1 is 2 but we havn't begun to understand 'and'." I think same goes for "is."

Not the definition of what "is" is again...

[Dave Miller]

I think that the context of "the world" means "all of creation."

I think that the term "salvation" as described in the NT applies more
to one becoming aware of Christ's saving power, opening one's
eyes to the Kingdom of God which is all around us.

If someone gives you an inheritance of a million dollars, if you're not
aware of it, does it do you any good?

While not everyone is aware of it, everyone will become aware of it
at some point. Truley aware, like being in the presence of the real
and Living God, in all God's warrmth and light and peace and healing.
Not just a witness from church or you or me, but a real and living
witness.

The reward for becoming aware of this presence here and now, instead
of at teh time of one's death, is to participate in the kingdom here and
now, and bear the fruits of the Spirit...

Dave

[The Edge]

I think that the term "salvation" as described in the NT applies more
to one becoming aware of Christ's saving power, opening one's
eyes to the Kingdom of God which is all around us.
Dave Miller, are you saying that when it says "salvation has come to the world" it's more like saying 'the offer of salvation has come to the world', thus not implying universalism?

[Rafael Almeida]

I believe that "world" means the sin system in the world.

[Turbo]

I believe that "world" means the sin system in the world.
For God so loved the sin system? :nono:

[Redfin]

Just a few thoughts...

As you stated, if that was the case then unbelievers are reconciled to God, which is not the case unless they accept Christ first.

1st, there will be no unbelievers in hell.

2nd, does the Bible ever explicitly say that people can't accept Christ after death? Before the judgment? After the judgment?

Jesus himself said that in the wide and narrow gate speech.

1st, where does it say that the narrow gate isn't still open to people at some point after death?

2nd, though "few there are that find it," what rules out the possibility that many will not be "shown" it, at some point?

And all his parables that talked about poeple being thrown out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That doesn't necessitate that it's unending.

But, even those that go to hell will confess christ once they die, because when they die they will see that the Bible was right, and it'll be too late they will go to hell anyway.

You're reading your conclusion into that. Going to hell does not necessitate staying there. Jesus went there with the sins of the world (there's that word again), yet He didn't have to stay there forever.

And Rom 14:11 says that everyone will eventually confess Christ....either before they die for salvation, or after they die when they see Him sending them to hell, and they realize that the Bible was right.

Again, reading your own presupposition in. "Forever" is not a necessary component of that scenario.

I think most people here will agree with me too.

Interesting that you're appealing to the "majority view," even while you're pleading the "narrow gate" argument! :think:

The reward for becoming aware of this presence here and now, instead of at teh time of one's death, is to participate in the kingdom here and now, and bear the fruits of the Spirit...

Excellent point, Dave! :thumb:

[Lighthouse]

If John 3:16 means the whole world, so does 1 John 2:2. They are saying the same thing, that Jesus dies for all sins. Neither of them have anything to do with who will be saved, only who He died for.

[justchristian]

Exactly Lighthouse. Salvation is a gift for made possible through Jesus' death. Whether we accept the gift is the crux of salvation.

[Lighthouse]

Amen.

[Redfin]

Whether we accept the gift is the crux of salvation.

And when we can accept the gift is the crux of the universalist/exclusivist debate.

[42ndgen]

Quite some time back....I read these scriptures......it might aid you to understand , the second death is not the extinction of life.........just sin.....until God will one day be in all.........but each in his time....please take your time to study these....

and then please tell me me which ones are not true..........

.Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (John 1:1, Mark 20:31) T or F

He was crucified, was buried and rose again on the third day. (Acts 2:23; 4:10) T or F

Jesus Christ’s blood was shed for the remission of sins. (Matt. 26:8) T or F

“The Father has sent the Son as Savoir of the world.” (1 John 4:14) T or F

Jesus is “the Christ, the Savoir of the world.” (John 4:42) T or F

“This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God our saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim. 2:3-6, KJV) T or F

Jesus “is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.” (1 John 2:2) T or F

Jesus “did not come to judge the world but to save the WORLD.” (John 12:47) T or F

“Jesus, was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for EVERYONE.” (Heb. 2:9) T or F

“Love NEVER fails.” (1 Cor. 13:8) T or F

“With God NOTHING is impossible.” (Luke 1:37) T or F

“This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.” (1 Tim. 4:9-11) T or F

“At the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” (Phil. 2:10:11) T or F

“God was pleased to have all fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself ALL THINGS on earth or in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross. Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation.” (Col. 1:19, 21, 22) T or F

In Jesus Christ is “the restoration of ALL THINGS, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:21) T or F

The Gospel is “good tidings of great joy will be to ALL people.” (Luke 2:10) T or F

Believers in Christ are “born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13) T or F

God appointed Jesus “heir of ALL THINGS, and through whom He made the universe.” (Heb. 1:2) T or F

“No one can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him.” (John 6:44) T or F

“As God gave Jesus authority over ALL FLESH, that he should give eternal life to as many as God have Him.” (John 17:2) T or F

The Father “has given ALL THINGS into Jesus’ hands.” (John 13:3) T or F

Jesus “was the true light which gives light to EVERY MAN who come into the world.” (John 1:9) T or F

“Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of ALL MEN, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL MEN.” (Rom. 5:18) T or F

Jesus is “able even to subdue ALL THINGS to Himself.” (Phil. 3:21) T or F

Jesus came “that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of His will.” (Eph. 1:10, 11) T or F

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) T or F

“God was Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God.” (2 Cor. 5:19, 20) T or F

“ALL the nations shall be blessed.” (Gal 3:8) T or F

“The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD.” (John 6:33) T or F

Jesus commanded us to be like Himself and His Father: “Love your enemies, bless those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” (Matt. 5:44, 45) T or F

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (drag in the Greek, helkuo) ALL MANKIND unto Myself.” (John 12:32) T or F

“Creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope, because creation ( man) itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” (Rom. 8:20, 21) T or F

“The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into His hands.” (John 3:35) T or F

“Since by man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam

ALL died, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive.” (1 Cor. 15:22) T or F

Jesus “is the image of the invisible God, the first born over ALL CREATION. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.” (Co. 1:15, 16) T or F

“ALL shall know the Lord, from the least of them to the greatest of them.” (Heb. 8:11) T or F

“The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN.” (Titus 2:11) T or F

We are not to “repay evil for evil.” (Rom. 12:17) T or F

“If anyone’s work which he has built endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire.” (1 Cor. 3:14, 15) T or F

“Of Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS, to whom be glory forever. Amen” (Rom. 11:36) T or F

“ALL Israel will be saved.” (Rom. 11:26) T or F

“Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore all died.” (2 Cor. 5:14) T or F.

“The head of EVERY man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3) T or F

“ALL nations shall come and worship You, for your judgments have been made manifested.” (Rev. 15:4) T or F

“When God’s judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the WORLD will learn righteousness.” (Isaiah 26:9) T or F

“Mercy shall TRIUMPH OVER (exalt over) judgment.” (James 2:13) Tor F

“Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.” (Rom. 5:20) T or F

“EVERY CREATURE which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever.” (Rev. 5:13) T or F

If we REALLY knew the Lord, we “would not have condemned the guiltless.” (Matt. 12:7) T or F

“God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning EVERY MAN and teaching

EVERY MAN man in all wisdom that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” (Col. 1: 27, 28) T or F

“ALL nations whom God has made will come and worship before Him” (Psalm 86:9) T or F

God’s “mercy endures forever.” (1 Chron. 16:34) T or F

God’s Spirit “will be poured out on ALL FLESH.” (Joel 2:28) T or F

God beckons us: “Come, and let us return to the Lord, for He has torn, but He will heal us. He has stricken, but He will bind us. After 2 days, He will revive us. On the THIRD DAY He will raise us up that we may live in His sight.” (Hosea 6:1, 2) T or F

“The Lord had made bare His Holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and ALL the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.” (Isaiah 52:10) T or F

“The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and ALL FLESH shall see it together; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.” (Isaiah 40:5) T or F

God will “open His hand and satisfy the desire of EVERY living thing.” (Psalm 145:16) T or F

God is “gracious in ALL His works.” (Psalm 145:17) T or F

“The EARTH is the Lord’s and ALL its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein.” (Psalm 24:1) T or F

“ALL the kings of the earth shall praise you, O Lord, when they hear the words of your mouth.” (Psalm 138:4) T or F

God “reveals Himself by those who did not ask for Him: He was found by those who did not seek Him.” (Isaiah 65:1) T or F

“The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy. The Lord is good to ALL, and His tender mercies are over ALL His works. ALL your works shall praise you, O Lord.” (Psalm 145:8-10) T or F

“ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord, and ALL the families of the nations shall worship before You. ALL those who go down to the dust (death) shall bow before You.” (Psalm 22:27, 29) T or F

“O You Who hear prayer, to you ALL flesh will come. Iniquities prevail against me; as for our transgressions, you will provide atonement for them.” (Psalm 65:2-4) T or F

“Through the greatness of your power your enemies shall submit themselves to you. ALL the earth shall worship You and sing praises to you.” (Psalm 66:3, 4) T or F

“Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, because His compassions FAIL NOT. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness.” (Lam. 3:21-24) T or F

“The Lord will NOT cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies.” (Lam. 3:31, 32) T or F

“For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made.” (Isaiah 57:16) T or F

“There is no God besides Me, a just God and Savior; There is none besides Me. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. He shall say, surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. In the Lord ALL the descendants of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.” (Isaiah 45:21-25) T or F

“In this mountain the Lord of Hosts will make for all people a feast of choice pieces, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of well-refined wines on the lees. And he shall destroy on this mountain the surface of the covering cast over ALL nations. He will swallow up death forever, and the Lord will wipe away tears from all faces.” (Isaiah 25:6-8) T or F

“ALL the nations of the earth shall be blessed.” (Gen. 18:18) T or F

“ALL the families of the earth shall be blessed.” (Gen. 12:3, 28:14) T or F

“It shall come to pass the saying that is written: ‘death is swallowed up in victory. Oh, Death, where is your sting Oh, Hell (Hades) where is your victory.’ The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor. 15:54-58) T or F

Of those who crucified Him (which is all of us) Jesus asked: “Father forgive them; for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34) Did the Father forgive us all? T or F

“It is finished.” (John 19:30) T or F

[42ndgen]

The edge has said: ( I have made bold what I want to place emphasis on.)

Universal salvation cannot be true. Jesus himself said that in the wide and narrow gate speech. And all his parables that talked about people being thrown out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. But, even those that go to hell will confess Christ once they die, because when they die they will see that the Bible was right, and it'll be too late they will go to hell anyway.

And Rom 14:11 says that everyone will eventually confess Christ....either before they die for salvation, or after they die when they see Him sending them to hell, and they realize that the Bible was right.

You do realize that what you said and I have made bold is actually never even stated in any verse that you quoted about those who confess Jesus Christ is Lord.

In fact everyone that confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, their confession brings them "into" the glory of the Father. No where does it say that there confession brings them into Hell.

Phi 2:10-11 KJVA That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now the word 'to' in the Greek is the word ice and means 'into'. So our confession that Jesus Christ is Lord brings us into the Glory of the Father.

Now what is the Glory you may ask?

Joh 17:5 KJVA And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The glory is nothing less than all that the Father own self is.
But it does not end there because Jesus turns around and gives us this very same glory later in the chapter.

Joh 17:20-23 KJVA Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

God is now after only a few overcomers called 'firstfruit' who will become the manifested sons of God but when He has them ready and they are enjoying the fullness of the Glory of the Father then they will have a commision to fulfill which is to bring All creatures into the very same liberty of the glory of the sons of God that they possess. ( this is literally what the Greek says. It does not use the word glorious as an adjective but is instead a genitive, possessive case noun.)

Rom 8:18-24 KJVA For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (20) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, (21) Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. (23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (24) For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


The word creature means original creature and refers solely to men not to animals.

Mar 16:15 KJVA And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
2Co 5:17 KJVA Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Now in verse 20 we are assured that 'the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.' and that the hope that the creature will have is the hope that will save them verse 24.

Now in order to fully understand Philippians 2:10 you must go back to where it is originally stated in the Old Testament prophet who is Isaiah.

Isa 45:18-24 KJVR For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (19) I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. (20) Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. (21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. (22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

A God who cannot save ALL the ends of the earth is an idol made from the wood of your imagination. God has sworn by Himself therefore making it His immutable council of God, and nothing that we do can stop it from coming to pass because He swore to bring it to pass. That every (that is all) Knees will bow and every (that is all) tongues will swear - that is to speak it seven times which is a covenant swear that In Him they have righteousness and strength.

Heb 6:13-20 KJVA For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, (14) Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. (15) And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. (16) For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. (17) Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: (18) That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: (19) Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


God's greatest guarantee that He is absolutely going to do something is when He swears by His own name to do it. Nothing can stop it from coming to pass. Not even man's so called free will can stop it from coming to pass.
Dan 4:35 KJVA And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Psa 33:9-11 KJVA For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast. (10) The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect. (11) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Isa 43:13 KJVA Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?


There are several points that need to be said

1. The whole context is about saving all men.
2. All men will swear and bow their knees and swear that In Him they have righteousness and strength.
3. God has put His greatest guarantee on this fact, and His own name is on the line. Either He saves all or He is a liar. There can be no other conclusion that can be reached. Heb 6:13-20
4. Every one will be in Him and have righteousness and strength.
5. Without obedience to what God has spoken there can be no righteousness Rom 4:3-5
6. All will be obedient by faith because all will have righteousness.

So saying that Jesus Christ is Lord does not bring honor to God if it is a forced confession that does not bring us into the glory. But the confession that Jesus Christ is Lord and that we have righteousness and strength in Him does brings us into the Glory of the Father. John 17:5,20-22. No man can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Ghost. I Cor 12:3

So everyone will be in Him.
Everyone will have strength in Him
Everyone will have righteousness in Him.
Everyone that confesses Jesus Christ is Lord through the Holy Ghost.
Everyone that confesses Jesus Christ is Lord will be brought into the Glory of the Father.


Paul even went so far as to say that everyone that confesses Jesus Christ is Lord will be saved.

Rom 10:9-13 KJVR That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (11) For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness

[Rafael Almeida]

For God so loved the sin system? :nono:

No, no, no, I was talking about this "world": "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you"
John 15:18, 19. I didn't specify :doh: .
The "world" in John 3:16 refers to the humanity, I believe.

[logos_x]

42ndgen...Outstanding! :BRAVO:

[42ndgen]

Hey logos :

Thanks

[Dave Miller]

Dave Miller, are you saying that when it says "salvation has come to the world" it's more like saying 'the offer of salvation has come to the world', thus not implying universalism?

Hey Edge,

Some how I missed your question from way back in February. Sorry. Feel
free to point me to open questions through PM...

I think that when John speaks of salvation coming to the world, He is speaking
of Christ the person directly.

Theologically, I think that the Kingdom is accessible here and now for those who
would open their eyes, ears, and hearts to receive it and participate in it.
I think the gates of the Kingdom were opened to all of humanity through
Christ, "repent, for the Kingdom is at hand." The gift is available, all we need
do is recognize and accept it.

Dave

[444thebride]

Here is something that I was led today:

John 12:47
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."

The LORD revealed to me a while ago that the person who hears his words is one who is in the body of Christ. If you are one who hears what an ear for the body of Christ hears then you are one who represents the world. If you are able to hear what Jesus hears from God then you are one who is saved from judgment. God lives in Jesus. Jesus is the Son because the Father and the Son are ONE. Those who remain in the Father and the Son are one with God. God will not judge those who live in him.

[Lighthouse]

What version is that? The KJV makes it sound completely different from what you posted.

[logos_x]

John 12:47
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."
???

(KJV) "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

(WNT) And if any one hears my teachings and regards them not, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

(YLT) and if any one may hear my sayings, and not believe, I--I do not judge him, for I came not that I might judge the world, but that I might save the world.

(MRC) "And if anyone hears My spoken words, and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but save the world.

I don't think "completely different" is entirely accurate.

[Lighthouse]

Keeping and believing are tow different things. And the way 444 explained their interpretation is contrary to what the first three versions you posted say.

[logos_x]

Keeping and believing are tow different things.

I guess it could be looked at that way.
The original word translated "keep" and "believe" is pisteuō which means to have faith.


And the way 444 explained their interpretation is contrary to what the first three versions you posted say.

Well, the explanation didn't have much to do with the verse itself did it.