Children Abused In Abu Ghraib

[Morpheus]

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-iraq-child-detainees,0,3977462.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/iraq.childdetainees.ap/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4339511.stm

The stories and pictures from Abu Ghraib shocked the world some time back, but the shock has worn off, memories are short and the world goes on. Then a few days ago new information was revealed. Women and children were held and abused there also. Not that this information is not shocking enough itself, but the larger story is how the information came to light. It came from an ACLU legal action through the Freedom of Information Act. So not only did these things happen, the DoD tried to cover them up. It was also reported that over 60% of the prisoners were innocent and had nothing to do with the war or insurgency. They were not released even though it was acknowledged that they were innocent. Several were also held secretly without record, "ghost prisoners", and hidden from human rights organizations. These links are only three of the numerous articles, but how well covered is this story in our media? Maybe we're too busy following Michael Jackson.

[Morpheus]

In addition here are some ACLU pages.

List of links to official documents acquired by ACLU through Freedom of Information Act, (including some from Guantanamo and Afghanistan):
http://www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=13962&c=36

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17698&c=206

Ghost detainees:
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17692&c=206

ACLU lawsuit against Rumsfeld:
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17584&c=206

[drRansom]

America's spreading "freedom" in the Middle East. Don't you know that yet, Morpheus? Who cares if women or children are being tortured and these guards who are doing the torturing will one day be police officers here - it's all freedom, my friend.

:rolleyes:

[Granite]

Originally posted by Morpheus

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-iraq-child-detainees,0,3977462.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/iraq.childdetainees.ap/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4339511.stm

The stories and pictures from Abu Ghraib shocked the world some time back, but the shock has worn off, memories are short and the world goes on. Then a few days ago new information was revealed. Women and children were held and abused there also. Not that this information is not shocking enough itself, but the larger story is how the information came to light. It came from an ACLU legal action through the Freedom of Information Act. So not only did these things happen, the DoD tried to cover them up. It was also reported that over 60% of the prisoners were innocent and had nothing to do with the war or insurgency. They were not released even though it was acknowledged that they were innocent. Several were also held secretly without record, "ghost prisoners", and hidden from human rights organizations. These links are only three of the numerous articles, but how well covered is this story in our media? Maybe we're too busy following Michael Jackson.

This is just terrible.

[Morpheus]

So why hasn't it made mainstream news?

[On Fire]

drRetard and his sidekick Mopeyus,

There are children being raped (and worse) everday in your own backyard (not literally). Perverts are everywhere. I assume you'll let us know what your point is eventually....

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by On Fire

drRetard and his sidekick Mopeyus,

There are children being raped (and worse) everday in your own backyard (not literally). Perverts are everywhere. I assume you'll let us know what your point is eventually.... So, I am to assume from your response that putting innocent children at least as young as 12, maybe younger, in a prison with adults where they can be raped is acceptable to you. Furthermore, you must think it ok for drunken guards/soldiers to force a 17-year-old girl to expose herself and molest her, then get a slap on the hand for it. And again, pouring water and smearing mud on a boy and leaving him in the cold shivering in front of his father in order to break him should be acceptable. If you get a little deeper into the actual documents there are ghost detainees with no records so that they could be hidden from Red Cross and other human rights organizations. Some were killed during interogation, packed in ice, and disappeared. In one instance a dead prisoner was put into a cab and the cab driver was paid to dump him. They tell of orders intentionally keeping over 60% of the prisoners even though they knew the prisoners were innocent. The interviews expose just how common and open the abuses were. You would think that if they were concerned about getting caught by superiors they would have been more discreet. It also gets into abuses at Guantanamo that have been covered up. None of this would have seen the light of day if it weren't for the ACLU filing a series of complaints and motions to gain access the documents. The DoD fought hard to keep it buried.

The question is not, doesn't exposing this information hurt our credibility and image? It is, Why were these things allowed to happen to such a massive open scale, and why were they covered up? The administration wouldn't have to worry about our image if we did nothing to destroy it in the first place.

One other question for you. If the media is so liberal, why haven't they jumped all over this? They have been pretty quiet.

Do you get the point now?

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

drRetard and his sidekick Mopeyus,

There are children being raped (and worse) everday in your own backyard (not literally). Perverts are everywhere. I assume you'll let us know what your point is eventually....

Nice attitude. How very Christlike of you. What happened to that millstone around your neck business? Where's the outrage?

Answer: it got buried underneath your neocon politics, supplanting the moral indignation you especially as a Christian SHOULD feel in the face of children being savaged.

OF, I know you and I signed a kind of off-the-record ceasefire, but this latest statement of yours is absolutely reprehensible, callous, and downright vicious. Willful ignorance or kneejerk, I don't know which, but you've come down on the wrong side here.

[Morpheus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/16/politics/16abuse.html?th

More to come.

[On Fire]

I take exception to drRetard's attempt to link freedom in the Middle East to these horrendous acts. MY point is that there are preverts in your own backyard. Are you outraged? Is there a link between these perverts and the war in Iraq?

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

I take exception to drRetard's attempt to link freedom in the Middle East to these horrendous acts. MY point is that there are preverts in your own backyard. Are you outraged? Is there a link between these perverts and the war in Iraq?

"Freedom in the Middle East" is one thing. A detention center where children are abused is something else altogether.

I don't see any link whatsoever between homegrown pedophiles and foreign children being ravaged.

And you've yet to condemn this abuse. Once.

Too bad.

[Frank Ernest]

For Lie-berals ( :Commie:s), evidence and proof are never required. The seriousness of the accusations determines the degree of guilt.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

For Lie-berals ( :Commie:s), evidence and proof are never required. The seriousness of the accusations determines the degree of guilt. http://www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=13962&c=36
This link was included in the first post. It is evidence and proof. Try following the links on the page. They lead to PDF files of the acquired official DoD documents.

For dufusses proof doesn't prove anything.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by granite1010

"Freedom in the Middle East" is one thing. A detention center where children are abused is something else altogether.

I don't see any link whatsoever between homegrown pedophiles and foreign children being ravaged. Tell that to Alice.


And you've yet to condemn this abuse. Once.

Too bad.

If it's true, it's heinous.

[Granite]

That's an improvement, anyway.:rolleyes:

[Gerald]

Originally posted by On Fire
If it's true, it's heinous. Of course it isn't true!

Those lying, rock-worshipping ragheads will say anything to elicit sympathy, won't they...? :rolleyes:

[On Fire]

As opposed to the awe inspiring:


Originally posted by granite1010

This is just terrible.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by Gerald

Of course it isn't true!

Those lying, rock-worshipping ragheads will say anything to elicit sympathy, won't they...? :rolleyes: :thumb:

[Granite]

We've become what we beheld.

We're condoning torture.

[On Fire]

Originally posted by granite1010

We've become what we beheld.

We're condoning torture.

Who exactly is condoning torture?

[Granite]

Originally posted by On Fire

Who exactly is condoning torture?

Anybody upset by the abuses at Abu Ghraib? The sex offenses? The England photos?

The TOL Brownshirts certainly didn't shed any tears.

[Gerald]

Originally posted by granite1010

Anybody upset by the abuses at Abu Ghraib? The sex offenses? The England photos?

The TOL Brownshirts certainly didn't shed any tears. But y'know, I haven't seen any TOL tears shed for Darfur, either...

[Granite]

Originally posted by Gerald

But y'know, I haven't seen any TOL tears shed for Darfur, either...

Ah, well. After their torture, starvation, rape, and crucifixion, at least the Sudanese brethern are at home with the Lord.:rolleyes:

These camel jockeys, on the other hand...

[Frank Ernest]

Hairball, :granite:1010,
We stand in awe of your holier-than-thou arrogance. :vomit:

[Granite]

Frank has missed the point and just used icons to talk. As usual.

TGIF.

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::granite:1010

Frank has missed the point and just used icons to talk. As usual.

TGIF.
:darwinsm: :drum: :singer: :guitar: :cloud9: :bow: :nananana:

[Zakath]

Originally posted by granite1010

Frank has missed the point and just used icons to talk. As usual.

TGIF. His posts make about as much sense as they usually do... virtually none. Though the smilies are at least a bit of visual variety. ;)

[aikido7]

Courteous presentation of real information just doesn’t play with this gang of born losers.

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::zakath:

His posts make about as much sense as they usually do... virtually none. Though the smilies are at least a bit of visual variety. ;)
Hey, :zakath: Back from licking the wounds inflicted in our last exchange I see.

By the way, congrats on the new grand:baby:! :thumb:

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::aikido:7

Courteous presentation of real information just doesn’t play with this gang of born losers.
:darwinsm: :third: :Commie: :loser:

[Agape4Robin]

Gee, I thought that this was a war:Grizzly:

The enemy:Commie: is not above using these "innocent" "children" against OUR troops, and if they are caught playing an adult game....they play by adult rules! The problem is with the enemy.....NOT our troops!!:nono:

War is hell!!:aikido: :duh:

[drRansom]

Originally posted by Agape4Robin

Gee, I thought that this was a war:Grizzly:

The enemy is not above using these "innocent" "children" against OUR troops, and if they are caught playing an adult game....they play by adult rules! The problem is with the enemy.....NOT our troops!!:nono:

War is hell!!:aikido: :duh:

Huh?

OK, just so I understand, amidst all of your cliches you are saying that this boils down to the problem is not our troops. Nobody here to my knowledge ever said that all of our troops are commiting various atrocities. But I ask you, are the troops who are commiting these types of atrocities a problem? Or are all troops if they have an American flag on their sleeve good and righteous and above reproach?

The enemy is not above using these "innocent" "children" against OUR troops, and if they are caught playing an adult game....they play by adult rules!

Are you saying "if they do it to us we can do it to them"? That sort of thing? Please correct me if I misunderstand you.

[Agape4Robin]

Like I said in my previous post.......if these "children" play an adult game (war) then they must play by the adult rules! War is NOT for children and yet children are recruited by these muslim extremists to carry out their "missions" with the promise of money for their families and heaven for them. THEY are the ones guilty of exploiting those children and placing them in harms way, exposing them to the dangers that war inevitably brings.

This by no means absolves ANY soldier who uses tactics outside of the Geneva Convention.....but they are less than a minority. Unfortunately our liberal media will put the spotlight on such isolated incidents in order to malign the noble and just cause for which our soldiers lay down their lives each day!!!

:bow: I admire every one of them and pray for their safety and the well being of their families!!!:thumb:

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Agape4Robin Gee, I thought that this was a war

The enemy is not above using these "innocent" "children" against OUR troops, and if they are caught playing an adult game....they play by adult rules! The problem is with the enemy.....NOT our troops!!

War is hell!! You might try reading the opening post copied below. Especially the emboldened section.
Originally posted by Morpheus

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-iraq-child-detainees,0,3977462.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/iraq.childdetainees.ap/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4339511.stm

The stories and pictures from Abu Ghraib shocked the world some time back, but the shock has worn off, memories are short and the world goes on. Then a few days ago new information was revealed. Women and children were held and abused there also. Not that this information is not shocking enough itself, but the larger story is how the information came to light. It came from an ACLU legal action through the Freedom of Information Act. So not only did these things happen, the DoD tried to cover them up. It was also reported that over 60% of the prisoners were innocent and had nothing to do with the war or insurgency. They were not released even though it was acknowledged that they were innocent. Several were also held secretly without record, "ghost prisoners", and hidden from human rights organizations. These links are only three of the numerous articles, but how well covered is this story in our media? Maybe we're too busy following Michael Jackson.

[drRansom]

Originally posted by Morpheus

It was also reported that over 60% of the prisoners were innocent and had nothing to do with the war or insurgency. They were not released even though it was acknowledged that they were innocent. Several were also held secretly without record, "ghost prisoners", and hidden from human rights organizations.

Right. I've seen numbers in the range of 70-90%! It's incredible.

[Granite]

Innocent people and children are getting tortured in there. Nothing changes that, no matter how many mirrors and how much smoke is puffed at this scandal.

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :granite:1010

Innocent people and children are getting tortured in there. Nothing changes that, no matter how many mirrors and how much smoke is puffed at this scandal.
All it lacks is evidence and proof.

[Granite]

Other than being covered (and then more or less suppressed or ignored by the media), I'm not sure what proof someone would need...more photos, perhaps? How would that play out? The England pics were bad enough. The minute something surfaces showing kids getting abused--or if a soldier testifies to this--I think everyone will kick into spin mode.

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :granite:1010

Other than being covered (and then more or less suppressed or ignored by the media), I'm not sure what proof someone would need...more photos, perhaps? How would that play out? The England pics were bad enough. The minute something surfaces showing kids getting abused--or if a soldier testifies to this--I think everyone will kick into spin mode.
OH! Anti-American hate propaganda is being supressed or ignored (more or less) by the "media."

:shocked:

[On Fire]

Any time children are abused, hurt or killed, regardless of the circumstances, it's horrible.

drAlice and Mopeyus would like for us to believe that they can predict the future and would have kept the US out of Iraq in order to avoid the hell that war is. They are idiots. They are clinging to the spoils of the war because they can no longer bemoan the clear success of the war. They are sore losers.

And you, drAlice, are the KING of cliches.

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Morpheus

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-iraq-child-detainees,0,3977462.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/iraq.childdetainees.ap/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4339511.stm

The stories and pictures from Abu Ghraib shocked the world some time back, but the shock has worn off, memories are short and the world goes on.

Nah, I remember the guy with the panties on his head. Considering some of the things I've seen happen to people who fell asleep at parties, I wasn't too broken up about it.

Then a few days ago new information was revealed. Women and children were held and abused there also. Not that this information is not shocking enough itself, but the larger story is how the information came to light. It came from an ACLU legal action through the Freedom of Information Act. So not only did these things happen, the DoD tried to cover them up. It was also reported that over 60% of the prisoners were innocent and had nothing to do with the war or insurgency.

Reported by whom?

They were not released even though it was acknowledged that they were innocent.

Acknowledged by whom?

Several were also held secretly without record, "ghost prisoners", and hidden from human rights organizations.

If this is true, then how in the world does anyone know about it? How did the information get out?

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

All it lacks is evidence and proof. Which would include what? Be specific...

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::zakath:

Which would include what? Be specific...
Oh my! Now we want specific rules for evidence and proof! :shocked: This from the person who never provides more than equivocation and :cow:.

:darwinsm: You never fail to disappoint, :zakath: :kiss:

However, being the kindly and compassionate soul that I am, refer to OEJ post #41. That will give you a start.

[Morpheus]

I have been sick for a few days, so unable to comment. But I am amazed at how many true morons continue to ask for proof, or the sources. If any of you rocket scientists would have ever followed the links in the second post, especially http://www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=13962&c=36 , you would have seen that the proof was the original DoD documents acquired through a Freedom Of Information Act lawsuit by the ACLU. That particular page has a series of links to copies of the original documents, including testimony of the soldiers and officers deposed during the original investigation. What more proof do you need?

[Zakath]

I wonder if Frankie ever bothered to read any of the linked content...

:think:

I wonder if Frankie ever bothers to read...

[Frank Ernest]

I wonder if Frankie ever bothered to read any of the linked content...

:think:

I wonder if Frankie ever bothers to read...

:darwinsm: :troll:

[aikido7]

The abuse does not matter as much because the children are out of the womb?

[Frank Ernest]

If it were a fact, it would matter. So far, the only "evidence" presented has been from the usual hysterical hate-America sources.

[Zakath]

If it were a fact, it would matter. So far, the only "evidence" presented has been from the usual hysterical hate-America sources.

"In her interview with Maj Gen George Fay, she also said intelligence officers had worked out an agreement to hold detainees without keeping records.

The Pentagon has acknowledged holding so-called "ghost detainees" on the basis that they were enemy combatants and therefore not entitled to prisoner of war protections."

(the "she" was Brigadier General Karpinski, USA - former commander of Abu Ghraib)

Where would you expect to get evidence, since the US government has officially admitted that it is (conveniently) not keeping records of some undetermined number of "detainees"?

[Morpheus]

My personal favorite, but you have to follow links to PDF files.
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030905/


If you couldn't follow the links, try this and tell me if id doesn't look like proof dimwits.
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030905/DOD208_325.pdf

Anyone else not bright enough to find the proof in front of you?

[Frank Ernest]

"In her interview with Maj Gen George Fay, she also said intelligence officers had worked out an agreement to hold detainees without keeping records.

The Pentagon has acknowledged holding so-called "ghost detainees" on the basis that they were enemy combatants and therefore not entitled to prisoner of war protections."

(the "she" was Brigadier General Karpinski, USA - former commander of Abu Ghraib)

Where would you expect to get evidence, since the US government has officially admitted that it is (conveniently) not keeping records of some undetermined number of "detainees"?
Apparently, this is a big deal to you :Commie:s. No matter how hard you try to keep it going, it's a dead story. Karpinski has been removed and disciplined, some of the guards have been disciplined.

As to the "ghost detainees" (clever phrase when you can't think of anything else): if you don't know and can't identify them, what's the point?

[Morpheus]

Apparently, this is a big deal to you :Commie:s. No matter how hard you try to keep it going, it's a dead story. Karpinski has been removed and disciplined, some of the guards have been disciplined.

As to the "ghost detainees" (clever phrase when you can't think of anything else): if you don't know and can't identify them, what's the point?
The point is that your "Americans are better than everybody else" contention crumbles in the light of evidence. Some of us choose not to ignore it.

BTW the term "ghost detainees" was not invented by us, it was in the original DoD documents used by those running the prison.

[Frank Ernest]

The point is that your "Americans are better than everybody else" contention crumbles in the light of evidence. Some of us choose not to ignore it.
:cow: Now you're making up things that I never said. Par for the course for a :Commie:.

BTW the term "ghost detainees" was not invented by us, it was in the original DoD documents used by those running the prison.
And your point is? :confused: