The Essenes, Anybody Know Anything About 'Em?

[allsmiles]

As you may have been able to surmise from the title of this thread, I'm interested in learning about the essenes, they were Jewish sect in the times of Jesus, apparently on par with the pharisees and saducees, wore signature white robes, I'm learning that Jesus was, or possibly was an essene himself. If anyone knows anything about it, I'm trying to learn more about them and would like to discuss it.

[logos_x]

These were the people who hid away the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The best site I'e found concerning who they were, their beliefs, and ways, is linked below:

http://www.thenazareneway.com/

[allsmiles]

thanks

[allsmiles]

Holy god, this is an awesome site!

[noguru]

Be careful. They touch on this in "The True Story Of Jesus of Nazareth". But since the first part is written by a person who claims to have had communed with the dead, no Christian should read this book and accept anything it has to say as "truth".

[Caledvwlch]

Be careful. They touch on this in "The True Story Of Jesus of Nazareth". But since the first part is written by a person who claims to have had communed with the dead, no Christian should read this book and accept anything it has to say as "truth".
I love the smell of censorship in the mornings... :dunce:

[logos_x]

:crackup:

[allsmiles]

Be careful. They touch on this in "The True Story Of Jesus of Nazareth". But since the first part is written by a person who claims to have had communed with the dead, no Christian should read this book and accept anything it has to say as "truth".

Even though you take literally a story that when your savior was tortured to death, the dead rose from the ground? What about the witch of endor? What about Lazarus?

[Zakath]

Be careful. They touch on this in "The True Story Of Jesus of Nazareth". But since the first part is written by a person who claims to have had communed with the dead, no Christian should read this book and accept anything it has to say as "truth".
This from a person whose religion canonizes as scripture more than a dozen books by an author who claims to have received his doctrinal teaching from a dead man...

:chuckle:

[logos_x]

This from a person whose religion canonizes as scripture more than a dozen books by an author who claims to have received his doctrinal teaching from a dead man...

:chuckle:

hmmm..really? Who was the dead man?

[Zakath]

hmmm..really? Who was the dead man?
That Nazarean fellow who was crucified, the carpenter... ;)

[logos_x]

That Nazarean fellow who was crucified, the carpenter... ;)

In case you didn't hear...He didn't stay dead. He's alive

[noguru]

Quote:
Originally Posted by noguru

Be careful. They touch on this in "The True Story Of Jesus of Nazareth". But since the first part is written by a person who claims to have had communed with the dead, no Christian should read this book and accept anything it has to say as "truth".

This from a person whose religion canonizes as scripture more than a dozen books by an author who claims to have received his doctrinal teaching from a dead man...

:chuckle:

Zakath, I think you misunderstand. I was being sarcastic. I do not believe that people can communicate with the dead. Therefore, I think the author might have been hallucinating. This does not mean that there is not knowledge in this book. Nor do I believe that we can become possessed by evil spirits, as many Christians believe. I do believe that one can succumb to the evil in themselves if they have not purged their guilt through Christ's way. But I am not tethered to the ceremonial aspects of Christianity. And I do understand that human's compiled what we now know as scripute. But I also believe that God and Jesus was smart enough to get the message through all the human biases. So that those of who have it in our heart to listen will hear.

[allsmiles]

Quote:
Originally Posted by noguru

Zakath, I think you misunderstand. I was being sarcastic. I do not believe that people can communicate with the dead. Therefore, I think the author might have been hallucinating. This does not mean that there is not knowledge in this book. Nor do I believe that we can become possessed by evil spirits, as many Christians believe. I do believe that one can succumb to the evil in themselves if they have not purged their guilt through Christ's way. But I am not tethered to the ceremonial aspects of Christianity. And I do understand that human's compiled what we now know as scripute. But I also believe that God and Jesus was smart enough to get the message through all the human biases. So that those of who have it in our heart to listen will hear.

Actually, if what I believe is true, and were are replicas of god, and within us is his divine spark, than Jesus (being one in the same with god the father) taught that he being the way, the truth and light simply meant that the way, the truth and the light are already within us and we should find god there, inside of us. Salvation is not required.

That and from what I've been reading lately, Jesus may not have died on the cross.

[Zakath]

Zakath, I think you misunderstand. I was being sarcastic.That's why Knight has obligingly included "smilies" like this one :rolleyes: in our forum.

I do not believe that people can communicate with the dead. Therefore, I think the author might have been hallucinating. I think the same thing about many religionists, as well.

This does not mean that there is not knowledge in this book.True enough, but why sift through a mound of manure to find a few grains of wheat? It's easier to take a walk through a wheat field...

Nor do I believe that we can become possessed by evil spirits, as many Christians believe. I do believe that one can succumb to the evil in themselves if they have not purged their guilt through Christ's way. And I do not believe that anyone can be "possessed by evil spirits". Basically, because I do not believe in spirits... :rolleyes:

But I am not tethered to the ceremonial aspects of Christianity. And I do understand that human's compiled what we now know as scripute. But I also believe that God and Jesus was smart enough to get the message through all the human biases. So that those of who have it in our heart to listen will hear.Well, after two thousand years it's only managed to work for around a quarter of the human population... I guess you guys will have to keep trying.

[Zakath]

In case you didn't hear...He didn't stay dead. He's alive
I've heard rumors to that effect, yes.

I've also heard rumors that Apollonius of Tyana had resurrected from the dead and ascended to heaven as well...

So many stories... which ones to believe?

[allsmiles]

I've read very intelligent studies centering around the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, that he survived and lived out the rest of his life in India.

Anybody know anything about this?

[Caledvwlch]

I've read very intelligent studies centering around the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, that he survived and lived out the rest of his life in India.

Anybody know anything about this?
Hmmm... intriguing. :think:

[Zakath]

I've read very intelligent studies centering around the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, that he survived and lived out the rest of his life in India.

Anybody know anything about this?
Yes.

I don't know that I'd classify them as any more or less "intelligent" than the stories in the Christians' gospels.

[logos_x]

I've read very intelligent studies centering around the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, that he survived and lived out the rest of his life in India.

Anybody know anything about this?

He was killed by crucifixion by professionals, and a spear was thust into His side to make sure the job was done.
He resurrected from the dead, was seen by many, especially the Apostles. He ascended after many days in full sight of the disciples. The promise was given that He would return in the same manner that He departed.

There was no "survival" of the crucifixion. Yet He lives.
If He appeared in India it wasn't to "live out the rest of His days".

The Mormons believe He appeared and taught many in America after He rose from the dead. He could have. He can do this anywhere, and at any time. Whether He actually did...is another issue.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I've read very intelligent studies centering around the idea that Jesus didn't die on the cross at all, that he survived and lived out the rest of his life in India.

I've heard the claims -- mostly from the Theosophic camp. They're so much hog-wash. if Jesus was crucified, he came down off that cross "deader than four-o-clock." (Don't ask ... it's a Southern thing....)

Justin

[Zakath]

..."deader than four-o-clock." (Don't ask ... it's a Southern thing....)
Yet, "enquiring minds want to know"... :chuckle:

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Yet, "enquiring minds want to know"... :chuckle:

Didn't I just say it's a Southern thing? Nobody understands!

Justin

Zakath ... thanks for the set-up. ;)

[Zakath]

Didn't I just say it's a Southern thing? Nobody understands!I do, I'm Southern... ;)
Zakath ... thanks for the set-up. ;)
You're welcome. :D

[noguru]

Actually, if what I believe is true, and were are replicas of god, and within us is his divine spark, than Jesus (being one in the same with god the father) taught that he being the way, the truth and light simply meant that the way, the truth and the light are already within us and we should find god there, inside of us. Salvation is not required.

I am not certain what Jesus meant regarding salvation. After all he is talking about other "worldly" things or things from another dimension. Things for which I have no foundational experience. But I do believe the things he says about this world.

I agree that the Bible is more about the struggle of good and evil within ourselves, than it is about some external political struggle.

"Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's, Give unto God that which is God's."



That and from what I've been reading lately, Jesus may not have died on the cross.

Well I hope your not reading that apostate book "The True Life of Jesus of Nazareth". :kookoo: (Did I do allright Zak?)

[noguru]

That's why Knight has obligingly included "smilies" like this one :rolleyes: in our forum.

Sorry Zakath. I didn't mean to put you on the defensive. :shocked:


True enough, but why sift through a mound of manure to find a few grains of wheat? It's easier to take a walk through a wheat field...

Well Zakath I don't look through manure for grains of wheat. I would probably use it as fertilizer to grow the wheat though. I don't think that manure is a very good analogy for the Bible. I think the Bible is the manure, the seed, the growing plant, and the needed sunlight. All together in one package.

I once worked for a :nori: that said; "The 86 list is a living breathing document, just like the Bible." I think I was the only employee who knew what he meant.

Let me ask you something Zakath. If you order lobster or shrimp at the supermarket, do you prefer them cooked and already removed the shell. Or do you prefer live ones or fresh ones that you can cook yourself?

It seems to me that your view of the Bible is a preprocessed and prepackaged food that has gone bad.

Would a rose be the same flower without the thorns or would it grow as well without the nutrients that manure can give it?


And I do not believe that anyone can be "possessed by evil spirits". Basically, because I do not believe in spirits... :rolleyes:

Well I just had some Isle Of Jura :cheers:, neat. Does that count? :D

And I have definitely seen some intoxicated people who were acting like evil spirits. They had suppressed their anger :box:, sadness :cry:, and dissapointment :sigh: until they were drunk. And then it came out as hostility, self-pity, and disgust all at once :madmad:.


Well, after two thousand years it's only managed to work for around a quarter of the human population... I guess you guys will have to keep trying.

Yes, persistence is the key. Of course hope is the mother of persistence. :wave:

"It's too late to stop now."
George Ivan Morrison

[allsmiles]

He was killed by crucifixion by professionals, and a spear was thust into His side to make sure the job was done.

Yet he was taken off of the cross prematurely as it were in comparison to the average time to suffocate on the cross. His legs weren't broken, the spear in his side could have been more like a prick to see if he was really dead. Remember when Joseph of Arimethea went to Pilate for the body and Pilate was surprised that he was already dead? Remember the story (from the gospel of john I believe) that depicts men in white robes in the empty tomb? Could have been essenes. But you would have us believe they were angels. Men in white robes is just too plausible.

He resurrected from the dead, was seen by many, especially the Apostles. He ascended after many days in full sight of the disciples. The promise was given that He would return in the same manner that He departed.

Resurrection is a physical impossibility. Rescucitation is not.

There was no "survival" of the crucifixion. Yet He lives.
If He appeared in India it wasn't to "live out the rest of His days".

Well, neither of us have put any real study into this (maybe you have but that's not the impression I get from you) so we don't really have an educated opinion.

The Mormons believe He appeared and taught many in America after He rose from the dead. He could have. He can do this anywhere, and at any time. Whether He actually did...is another issue.

Good point.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Remember the story (from the gospel of john I believe) that depicts men in white robes in the empty tomb? Could have been essenes.

Doubtful. The Essenes were greatly concerned with ritual purity, and would most probably not have been in an area where bodies were buried--bodies are ritually impure.

Resurrection is a physical impossibility. Rescucitation is not.

The whole point of any Resurrection claim is that it is physically impossible, and therefore a miracle.

Justin

[logos_x]

The whole point of any Resurrection claim is that it is physically impossible, and therefore a miracle.

Justin

BINGO!

[Zakath]

Doubtful. The Essenes were greatly concerned with ritual purity, and would most probably not have been in an area where bodies were buried--bodies are ritually impure.Particularly that close to a high holy day. :thumb:

[Zakath]

Resurrection is a physical impossibility. Rescucitation is not. That's why the Christians believe in the first and claim "miracle". If it was merely the second, then their entire "atonement theology" is meaningless.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Particularly that close to a high holy day. :thumb:

I think I read somewhere that part of their disagreement with the Temple was on the calculation of the date of Purim. So they may or may not have considered it a high holy day. However, I may be misremembering....

Justin

[Zakath]

I think I read somewhere that part of their disagreement with the Temple was on the calculation of the date of Purim. So they may or may not have considered it a high holy day. However, I may be misremembering....

Justin
Could be. The Eastern and Western Christian churches haven't celebrated the same day for their high holy day, Easter, in how many centuries now????

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Could be. The Eastern and Western Christian churches haven't celebrated the same day for their high holy day, Easter, in how many centuries now????

The parallels (Temple Judaism:Essenes::Western Church:Eastern Church) are fascinating to contemplate....

Justin

[Zakath]

The parallels (Temple Judaism:Essenes::Western Church:Eastern Church) are fascinating to contemplate....

Justin
[Teal'c voice]Indeed. [/Teal'c voice]

[Zakath]

Sorry Zakath. I didn't mean to put you on the defensive. :shocked: No worries. I was merely commenting. :thumb:

Well Zakath I don't look through manure for grains of wheat. I would probably use it as fertilizer to grow the wheat though. I don't think that manure is a very good analogy for the Bible. I think the Bible is the manure, the seed, the growing plant, and the needed sunlight. All together in one package. OK, it's your metaphor. Go for it.

I once worked for a :nori: that said; "The 86 list is a living breathing document, just like the Bible." I think I was the only employee who knew what he meant. Good for you, I certainly don't... not knowing what "the 86 list" is.

Let me ask you something Zakath. If you order lobster or shrimp at the supermarket, do you prefer them cooked and already removed the shell. Or do you prefer live ones or fresh ones that you can cook yourself?

It seems to me that your view of the Bible is a preprocessed and prepackaged food that has gone bad. The difference in our views appear to be that I don't view any static document as dynamic or "living", you do.

Different strokes and all that.

[allsmiles]

Doubtful. The Essenes were greatly concerned with ritual purity, and would most probably not have been in an area where bodies were buried--bodies are ritually impure.

Unless they knew Jesus didn't die. That's why they only stuck him with a spear and didn't break his legs, he "died" too quickly, that's why Pilate was surprised when Joseph asked for the body, Jesus "died" too quickly. You make a valid point, but it's only valid if no one knew Jesus was still alive, and according to what little I've been able to find on the point, that's not the theory.

The whole point of any Resurrection claim is that it is physically impossible, and therefore a miracle.

Yeah, the more unbelievable the more it is believed. How does that make any sense?

Does anyone know who Yuz Asaf was?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Unless they knew Jesus didn't die. That's why they only stuck him with a spear and didn't break his legs, he "died" too quickly, that's why Pilate was surprised when Joseph asked for the body, Jesus "died" too quickly. You make a valid point, but it's only valid if no one knew Jesus was still alive, and according to what little I've been able to find on the point, that's not the theory.

Eh. I'm severely tempted to doubt this particular theory. Crucifixion was too common--if jesus was crucified (something that only the Gospels present, so I'm not willing to comment on the historicity one way or another), he came down dead.

Yeah, the more unbelievable the more it is believed. How does that make any sense?

Credo qui absurdum has been a strong element of many religious beliefs.

Does anyone know who Yuz Asaf was?

19th century story. What of it?

Justin

[allsmiles]

Eh. I'm severely tempted to doubt this particular theory. Crucifixion was too common--if jesus was crucified (something that only the Gospels present, so I'm not willing to comment on the historicity one way or another), he came down dead.

It may not have been you, but someone scolded me about making such broad, absolute statements. Have you studied this theory at all?

Credo qui absurdum has been a strong element of many religious beliefs.

Right?

19th century story. What of it?

It was originally written in the 19th century, or it first came into public in the 19th century?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

It may not have been you, but someone scolded me about making such broad, absolute statements. Have you studied this theory at all?

Extensively.

Right?

Sorry: Latin for (loose translation) "I believe because it is absurd." There's a school of apologetic that extolls Christianity precisely because it is not logical.

It was originally written in the 19th century, or it first came into public in the 19th century?

I've yet to see a supposed "secret knowledge" that was this useful in rebutting one's opponents that was kept a secret for this long. If this was known in Muslim circles before the founding of the Ahmadiyya movement, it was certainly a secret long kept that could have been useful in the previous 1200 or so years of debate between Muslim and Christian.

I tend to view the tales of Yuz Asaf in much the same light as the tales of the Grail Bloodline: interesting late developments of offshoot doctrines, but not relevant to the history of the religion befor ethey developed.

Justin

[allsmiles]

Extensively.

I'm not asking you to test you, but I was wondering if you know who wrote the book Jesus Lived In India?

Sorry: Latin for (loose translation) "I believe because it is absurd." There's a school of apologetic that extolls Christianity precisely because it is not logical.

Sorry, when I say, right? it's more like an acknowledgement. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

I've yet to see a supposed "secret knowledge" that was this useful in rebutting one's opponents that was kept a secret for this long. If this was known in Muslim circles before the founding of the Ahmadiyya movement, it was certainly a secret long kept that could have been useful in the previous 1200 or so years of debate between Muslim and Christian.

When was the earliest recorded mention of him?

I tend to view the tales of Yuz Asaf in much the same light as the tales of the Grail Bloodline: interesting late developments of offshoot doctrines, but not relevant to the history of the religion befor ethey developed.

Perhaps. I haven't done much research on this myself, so you'll excuse me if I don't take your word for it until I have checked it out myself.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I'm not asking you to test you, but I was wondering if you know who wrote the book Jesus Lived In India?

Holger Kersten. However, it's been some six years since I read it, so I had to look it up. I've also read Notovich and several others. Allsmiles, the history just isn't there: it's all conjecture, pseudo-history, and pseudo-science.

Sorry, when I say, right? it's more like an acknowledgement. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

Sorry--the question mark threw me. I thought I'd lost you.

When was the earliest recorded mention of him?

Well, let's see. Blavatsky wrote that Jesus went to India before his crucifixion back in 1889. Notovich wrote in 1890. Masih Hindustan mein was written in 1899. Now, the tomb in the Rozabal Shrine that Ahmad cites lists "Yuza Asif" as a prophet and prince who lived around 100 CE .. the point of contention is whether or not this is Jesus of Nazareth.

Perhaps. I haven't done much research on this myself, so you'll excuse me if I don't take your word for it until I have checked it out myself.

Absolutely. However, I would in all seriousness recommend that you not reject mainstream scholarship in your search. A lot of the (pardon the term) "fringe scholarship" is very derisive of mainstream research, but I would earnestly propose to you that part of the reason for that is because the "fringe" stuff is frequently to fragile to withstand much scrutiny.

Justin

[allsmiles]

Holger Kersten. However, it's been some six years since I read it, so I had to look it up. I've also read Notovich and several others. Allsmiles, the history just isn't there: it's all conjecture, pseudo-history, and pseudo-science.

Wish I could take your word for it. I'll check it out. Would Notovitch fall under the category of "fringe" scholarship?

Sorry--the question mark threw me. I thought I'd lost you.

Internet sucks. If you heard me say it you would have understood.

Well, let's see. Blavatsky wrote that Jesus went to India before his crucifixion back in 1889. Notovich wrote in 1890.

But who/what were their sources? I don't know why, but I find it hard to believe that these stories of Iza and Yus Asaf just sprang out of the creative minds of 19th century writers.

Masih Hindustan mein was written in 1899. Now, the tomb in the Rozabal Shrine that Ahmad cites lists "Yuza Asif" as a prophet and prince who lived around 100 CE .. the point of contention is whether or not this is Jesus of Nazareth.

I can definitely see how that could be the point of contention. Weren't there writings of Yus Asaf traveling with companions named Mary and Thomas? Could be any old Thomas and Mary, still, if it's true that they were mentioned, it's one heck of a coincidence no matter who they are.

Absolutely. However, I would in all seriousness recommend that you not reject mainstream scholarship in your search. A lot of the (pardon the term) "fringe scholarship" is very derisive of mainstream research, but I would earnestly propose to you that part of the reason for that is because the "fringe" stuff is frequently to fragile to withstand much scrutiny.

Mind pointing me in the right direction for the mainstream?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Would Notovitch fall under the category of "fringe" scholarship?

:shrug: I guess he's more of a "You pays your money and you takes your choice." He was a journalist, not a "formal" scholar ... so it's possible to make the argument either way.

But who/what were their sources?

Blavatski claimed divine revelation--"visions." I don't even remember if Notovich had a bibliography, so I don't know.

I don't know why, but I find it hard to believe that these stories of Iza and Yus Asaf just sprang out of the creative minds of 19th century writers.

And it seems especially difficult to believe, since these writers were writing in two radically different cultures. The big problem is, to the absolute best of my research, the 19th century is the very first mention of the theory that "Jesus survived the crucifixion and moved to India." If it's not 19th cent. inventiveness, then I have no idea what to attribute it to ... especially after at least 1800 years of absolute silence.

I can definitely see how that could be the point of contention. Weren't there writings of Yus Asaf traveling with companions named Mary and Thomas? Could be any old Thomas and Mary, still, if it's true that they were mentioned, it's one heck of a coincidence no matter who they are.

Not that I know of before the 1800s.

Mind pointing me in the right direction for the mainstream?

Hoo, boy.

For the process of crucifixion, see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion).

For the rest ... heck, you're gonna have to tell me what you want to research. Or you can start with Wikipedia--it's not perfect, but it is extensive, and it tends to at least mention the less popular theories, unlike most encyclopedias.

[allsmiles]

:shrug: I guess he's more of a "You pays your money and you takes your choice." He was a journalist, not a "formal" scholar ... so it's possible to make the argument either way.

Okay, I guess what would really help me is to know your definition of fringe and what criteria you use or is used to determine when a scholar or author is fringe.

Blavatski claimed divine revelation--"visions." I don't even remember if Notovich had a bibliography, so I don't know.

Well, if what the christians say could be true than I guess it's all up in the air, right?

And it seems especially difficult to believe, since these writers were writing in two radically different cultures. The big problem is, to the absolute best of my research, the 19th century is the very first mention of the theory that "Jesus survived the crucifixion and moved to India." If it's not 19th cent. inventiveness, then I have no idea what to attribute it to ... especially after at least 1800 years of absolute silence.

There could be any number of reasons for the silence. The prolonged "tenure" of the silence doesn't seem like a good enough argument to discredit it. I will agree that it doesn't make sense, the length of time and the lack of explanation for it, but at this point it could be anything.

For the process of crucifixion, see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion).

I know how people got crucified, the process was long and grueling. Jesus' crucifixion was not a typical crucifixion. It was over too quickly, the bible relates this, the soliders who pierced his side knew it, Pilate knew, you can bet your bottom dollar that Joseph of Aremethia knew it too. Jesus' crucifixion wasn't an according to hoyle, wikipedia crucifixion. It was quick, it was over too quickly. Everyone knew it. Then there's the story of men in white robes (essenes wore white robes) in the tomb.

If Jesus didn't die, than things like this:

there is a body of suggestive evidence available from a variety of manuscripts and other texts. The most prominent of these is the Bhavishya Maha Purana. This is one of the 18 holy books (Puranas) of Hinduism. Compiled in AD 115, it includes an intriguing encounter between King Shalivahana and a holy man referred to as Isa-Masih. 5

Isa explains who he is:

“I am called a Son of God, born of a virgin, minister of the non-believers… I come from a foreign country where there is no truth… I appeared as the Messiah.”http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/183_jesuseast4.shtml

...begin to make perfect sense.

Justin, what do you make of this (you've probably already seen this stuff):

Another striking instance linking Jesus to the name Yuz Asaf, and to the locale of Srinagar, is to be found at the Takhat Sulaiman (Throne of Solomon) temple at Lake Dal in Srinagar. Here, there are four inscriptions:

1. The mason of this pillar is Bihishti Zargar, year fifty and four.

2. Khwaja Rukun son of Murjan erected this pillar.

3. At this time Yuz Asaf proclaimed his prophethood. Year fifty and four.

4. He is Jesus, prophet of the children of Israel.

The year 54 is usually believed to equate to AD 78.
http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/183_jesuseast4.shtml

"'O king, lend your ear to the religion that I brought unto the non-believers: after the purification of the essence and the impure body and after seeking refuge in the prayers of the Naigama, man will pray to the Eternal. Through justice, truth, meditation and unity of spirit, man will find his way to Isa in the center of light. God, as firm as the sun, will finally unite the spirit of all wandering beings in himself. Thus, O king, Ihamasi will be destroyed; and the blissful image if Isa, the giver of happiness, will remain forever in the heart; and I was called Isa-Masih.' After the king heard these words, he took the teacher of the non-believers and sent him to their pitiless land."
(verses 16-33 of the third khanda of the Pratisarga parvan of the Bhavishya Mahapurana)

This is very cool stuff Justin.