Sadly

[Nineveh]

Results from a recent survey conducted by a North Carolina researcher reveal that the majority of America's youth believe in God, yet there is a shallowness in their religious knowledge, and they have difficulty expressing their faith.

Christian Smith, a sociologist at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, led 133 researchers and consultants in conducting a project that involved telephone surveys of 3,370 English- and Spanish-speaking Americans and face-to-face interviews with 267 of the participants -- all ages 13 to 17. Protracted funding will allow the researchers to track these young people through 2007.

Thus far, telephone surveys reveal that young people have a broad fondness for religion, although their religious knowledge is labeled as "meager, nebulous and often fallacious" as found through the personal interview portion of the study.

In other words, teens were unable to coherently express their beliefs and the impact of faith on their lives. In addition, many participants appeared so separated from the traditions of their faith that they viewed God as a feel-good problem solver who merely existed for that purpose. There were no indications of an absolute, truth-based theology among the teens.

"God is something like a combination Divine Butler and Cosmic Therapist who is available when needed," Smith wrote in his new book titled Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers, co-authored with Melinda Lundquist Denton.

Smith credits parental tendencies of Baby Boomers, poor educational and youth programs, and responsibilities and activities that vie for teenagers' time as reasons for their skewed view of the Almighty. cite (http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/282005g.asp)

[Zakath]

So, what are you suggesting?

Christians are losing the culture war?

If so, that's nothing new. It's been a common complaint for at least a thousand years...

[Nineveh]

I suggest solid teaching from good preachers :)

[Zakath]

I suggest solid teaching from good preachers :)
Both commodities apparently scarcer than hens' teeth.

[Nineveh]

But hope springs eternal :)

[Poly]

"God is something like a combination Divine Butler and Cosmic Therapist who is available when needed," Smith wrote in his new book titled Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers, co-authored with Melinda Lundquist Denton.

This is the result of Christianity becoming a fad with teens. They've been taught that God is their big ol' buddy in the sky. They're taught that they should be able to get whatever they want from the church since churches cater to youth groups, not wanting to offend them after all since they're at that age where they could become rebellious. They are seldom taught the attributes of God or how serious sin is to Him. They are told that they can be saved but they're not told what they need to be saved from.

[Freak]

I suggest solid teaching from good preachers :) And believers whom will listen and act.

[Zakath]

And believers whom will listen and act.
"Believers" like you remind me of my dad's saying, "No one's good for nothing. They can always be used as a bad example."

:loser:

[Turbo]

...said the unbelieving former pastor. ;)

[Sold Out]

Both commodities apparently scarcer than hens' teeth.

And I totally agree with that!

The preachers these days hoard their knowledge (if they actually have any), and never transfer any solid biblical truths to their flock. They tickle their ears with what they think everyone wants to hear to keep the money coming in. Luckily, I met a man 5 years ago (my current pastor) who has spent over 28 years studying the bible every single day, and freely transfers solid biblical truth to us every week. He hasn't let his knowledge 'puff him up', so to speak.

So I have to give big cyberspace kudos to my pastor who has opened up the bible to me in a way I never knew, and now I am able to transfer truth to others by personal discipleship.

And BTW....my 15 year old son has more bible doctrine in his head than some preachers. He challenged a substitute teacher last week, who happened to be a COC youth pastor, about baptism. AND, in his speech class, he presented the Gospel as his 'How-to' speech. He showed his entire class how to be saved.

[Yorzhik]

And the belief that God knows the future exhaustively is one big reason that we have this problem, too.

[Yorzhik]

I'll bet Zakath believed that when he was a pastor.

[Zakath]

I'll bet Zakath believed that when he was a pastor.
:confused:

If you are suggesting that I did not accept the heterodox "Open View" theology while I was a pastor, you are correct.

Of course some people call it heresy.

But one man's heterodoxy is another's heresy. :D

[Yorzhik]

:confused:

If you are suggesting that I did not accept the heterodox "Open View" theology while I was a pastor, you are correct.

Of course some people call it heresy.

But one man's heterodoxy is another's heresy. :D
I should have bet money.

Believing that God knows the future exhaustively creates a weakness in faith that has a greater chance of causing one to fall away. Too bad, really.

[Emo]

Believing that God knows the future exhaustively creates a weakness in faith that has a greater chance of causing one to fall away. Too bad, really.

Very true......

It must be tough to always make God accountable for any failure, accident, & evildoing that one comes across. I choose to serve a God which keeps the door open for possibilities instead of One that has already closed it shut.

[swanca99]

My observation has been that there are not many pastors interested in teaching the Word, and there are not many people interested in hearing it.

In the 70s and 80s, people wanted to be "counselled." I began to wonder if one stood a better chance of becoming a pastor if he had a Ph.D. in psychology than if he had a Th.D. in exegisis or theology.

In my recent encounters with mainstream denominations, I found that a pastor needed to be more of a businessman than a Bible scholar. Countless building programs and drives to increase church membership...a membership that is Biblically illiterate and includes many unsaved people.

I think that some Christians would really love to get more Bible teaching, and there are even some who, if EXPOSED to good Bible teaching, would really be inspired to get into the Word more. But I remember talking to the owner of a Christian book store once who told me that his biggest sellers were not commentaries or theology books, but paperback "how to" books.

I agree with Nineveh, though...it has to start with preachers willing to put the Word above the whims of the people. That's one thing I've enjoyed about not being a "professional" preacher: I'm not depending on anybody's approval for a paycheck.

[Lighthouse]

Looks like maybe that calling God has on my life is desperately needing to be fulfilled.

[Sold Out]

My observation has been that there are not many pastors interested in teaching the Word, and there are not many people interested in hearing it.

In the 70s and 80s, people wanted to be "counselled." I began to wonder if one stood a better chance of becoming a pastor if he had a Ph.D. in psychology than if he had a Th.D. in exegisis or theology.

In my recent encounters with mainstream denominations, I found that a pastor needed to be more of a businessman than a Bible scholar. Countless building programs and drives to increase church membership...a membership that is Biblically illiterate and includes many unsaved people.

I think that some Christians would really love to get more Bible teaching, and there are even some who, if EXPOSED to good Bible teaching, would really be inspired to get into the Word more. But I remember talking to the owner of a Christian book store once who told me that his biggest sellers were not commentaries or theology books, but paperback "how to" books.

I agree with Nineveh, though...it has to start with preachers willing to put the Word above the whims of the people. That's one thing I've enjoyed about not being a "professional" preacher: I'm not depending on anybody's approval for a paycheck.

Whoooo-weeee! You need to meet my preacher! He's a maverick if I've ever seen one! He says the exact same thing - "if you don't like what I have to say, and it's biblical, then don't let the door hit you in the po-po on the way out...."

The people in our church walk around with perpetual limps....from having their toes stepped on.

What you described above is the kind of church I attend. It's amazing. I can't TELL you how much bible I have learned in the last 4 years since being under my pastor. I'll send you a link to our church website so you can check it out.

[aikido7]

Why the surprise? Fundamentalism is the typical result of bad theology.

[Mr. Coffee]

Why the surprise? Fundamentalism is the typical result of bad theology.
This means there's such a thing as good theology. How Either/Or of you.

[aikido7]

Good theology is either fact-based or not. It starts with facts and material data--gathered in a systematic, scholarly way--plus a peer-reviewed methodology and a belief-based meaning applicable to the times.

The facts of Christian theology are Christ was crucified and buried and on the third day he rose from the dead and will come to judge the quick and the dead, etc. Or that Jesus died for our sins. Those are meanings. Beliefs. Borne out by certain historical facts. It's either fact-based theology from real data or not. You cannot have it both ways (although some still try).

[beanieboy]

"meager, nebulous and often fallacious"

Well, at least they will have high SAT scores...

[Mr. Coffee]

Good theology is either fact-based or not. It starts with facts and material data--gathered in a systematic, scholarly way--plus a peer-reviewed methodology and a belief-based meaning applicable to the times.

The facts of Christian theology are Christ was crucified and buried and on the third day he rose from the dead and will come to judge the quick and the dead, etc. Or that Jesus died for our sins. Those are meanings. Beliefs. Borne out by certain historical facts. It's either fact-based theology from real data or not. You cannot have it both ways (although some still try).Jesus intended something in his death; he meant something by it; and he accomplished the purpose of the cross. These aren't external meanings projected on it by us.

[aikido7]

Jesus intended something in his death; he meant something by it; and he accomplished the purpose of the cross. These aren't external meanings projected on it by us.
Reading someone's intentions can be difficult. Seeing the effect of one's intentions is easier for me. Results, not intentions, are what matter in the long run.

[One Eyed Jack]

Reading someone's intentions can be difficult. Seeing the effect of one's intentions is easier for me. Results, not intentions, are what matter in the long run.

So the end justifies the means?

[aikido7]

"Justify" implies a human judgement; consequences are often random, unforseen. For example, our government fixed the intelligence to "justify" its need to go to war. The consequences of those intentions proved much different than the good intentions themselves.

[Mr. Coffee]

Reading someone's intentions can be difficult. I"m not saying that I read God's mind. We know God's purposes and work in salvation through Scripture. And there is a second part to this. There is a very personal way of knowing that Jesus "loved me and gave himself up for me" (Gal. 2.20). Public revelation and personal assurance; the historical case for the Son of God and a faith that is as incommunicable as your own sense of self (but no less real)--God puts it all together, wonderfully. This is how WE KNOW that Jesus is the savior, our savior.

[aikido7]

I"m not saying that I read God's mind. We know God's purposes and work in salvation through Scripture. And there is a second part to this. There is a very personal way of knowing that Jesus "loved me and gave himself up for me" (Gal. 2.20). Public revelation and personal assurance; the historical case for the Son of God and a faith that is as incommunicable as your own sense of self (but no less real)--God puts it all together, wonderfully. This is how WE KNOW that Jesus is the savior, our savior.Actually, I was saying that we cannot know Jesus' intentions. The gospels give us little indication of his interior mind.

The rest of your post, eloquent as it is and edifying as it may be, is more theological and inspirational than it is concrete and factual. I can "assent" to it as I would a verse of poetry but I cannot "prove" it like a legal brief.

You and I approach our faith differently. I don't know God's purposes or his "work in salvation through Scripture." And, I see a difference between "public revelation" and "personal assurance." Public revelation (to me) is the historically factual unfolding of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. The "personal assurance" is a statement of meaning or belief that I personally extract from that public revelation chronicled in the gospel accounts. And I see the Bible not as history only, but as a complex blend of oral tradition, mythology, and theology as well.

[Mr. Coffee]

Actually, I was saying that we cannot know Jesus' intentions. The gospels give us little indication of his interior mind.
I know what you meant. And the gospels tell us what he thought about what he came to do. "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mk 10.45; Mt 20.28). He identified himself as the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 (Luke 22.37).
Public revelation (to me) is the historically factual unfolding of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. The "personal assurance" is a statement of meaning or belief that I personally extract from that public revelation chronicled in the gospel accounts. And I see the Bible not as history only, but as a complex blend of oral tradition, mythology, and theology as well. There is a Lord of history, and he's in history and he speaks through events. He speaks first, before we "personally extract" anything. We didn't create ourselves and we can't reinvent the requirements of a meaningful life. We submit to them and enter the Kingdom as children. This includes believing in the one he sent.

[Lighthouse]

Is aikido being an idiot, again... wait, is there ever a time when aikido is not being an idiot?:rolleyes:

[aikido7]

Is aikido being an idiot, again... wait, is there ever a time when aikido is not being an idiot?:rolleyes:If only you were Christian, then you could forgive me....












As long as you don't call me a fool, I guess...