Arranged Marriage

[Mr. 5020]

Why are you for or against arranged marriages?

[ShadowMaid]

The best. :thumb:

[SOTK]

This is an interesting topic. I'm gonna wait and see what people like Shadowmaid says before commenting. :)

[Mr. 5020]

Why are you for or against arranged marriages?
The best. :thumb:
:confused:

[Lovejoy]

A potentially powerful tool, if the family is trustworthy and uses love and discernment. It is also very easily abused by those that don't.

[Imrahil]

It depends on how the term is used. It gets tossed around by different people who use it to mean different things.

[ShadowMaid]

Arranged marriages are the best, because during a relationship, the girl and boy (or maybe just one of them) will become emtionally attached. Well, one of them breaks up with the other, so the other is heartbroken, and when they get into another relationship, they're scared of being hurt like that, so they don't open up completely. That'll hurt a marriage.

Second, you become emotionally attached, and you get married to this person.... but you overlooked some very important things because you were emotionally attached.

[Mr. 5020]

It depends on how the term is used. It gets tossed around by different people who use it to mean different things.
I suppose I'll need this explained to me. :o

[Mr. 5020]

Arranged marriages are the best, because during a relationship, the girl and boy (or maybe just one of them) will become emtionally attached. Well, one of them breaks up with the other, so the other is heartbroken, and when they get into another relationship, they're scared of being hurt like that, so they don't open up completely. That'll hurt a marriage.

Second, you become emotionally attached, and you get married to this person.... but you overlooked some very important things because you were emotionally attached.
During an arranged marriage, wouldn't you have to overlook some things, because you have no choice but to marry them?

[ShadowMaid]

During an arranged marriage, wouldn't you have to overlook some things, because you have no choice but to marry them?

No, that's betrothal.

I can say yes or no to any man Dad sees "worthy."

[Imrahil]

I suppose I'll need this explained to me. :o
An arranged marriage might be simply the parents deciding who and when you marry. Or it could be a whole range of things like the parents just being involved, or someone just forgoing the "traditional" dating approach into a more serious courtship with both families involved or whatever. Maybe other people can give different examples.

[Mr. 5020]

No, that's betrothal.

I can say yes or no to any man Dad sees "worthy."
Well, that's not too "arranged," I guess. That's more like your dad hookin' you up. :)

[ShadowMaid]

Well, that's not too "arranged," I guess. That's more like your dad hookin' you up. :)

Yeah, I guess you could put it that way.

[SOTK]

No, that's betrothal.

I can say yes or no to any man Dad sees "worthy."

How is that arranged then? I'll be honest; I don't know too much about arranged marriages, but I did think it meant that the woman did not have the choice.

[Mr. 5020]

How is that arranged then? I'll be honest; I don't know too much about arranged marriages, but I did think it meant that the woman did not have the choice.
I'm with you there, bro. It seems like you could keep shaking your head until dad brought in someone that made you give the nod.

[Imrahil]

How is that arranged then? I'll be honest; I don't know too much about arranged marriages, but I did think it meant that the woman did not have the choice.
It's pretty hard to pull off a forced marriage these days. Unless it's in a cult or something.

[Lovejoy]

My marriage was arranged by God (or so my wife tells me, I really don't know how it happened).

[Mr. 5020]

It's pretty hard to pull off a forced marriage these days. Unless it's in a cult or something.
I had a funny TGF joke there, but I digress....

[Mr. 5020]

My marriage was arranged by God (or so my wife tells me, I really don't know how it happened).
:chuckle:

[SOTK]

It's pretty hard to pull off a forced marriage these days. Unless it's in a cult or something.

Then what's an arranged marriage?

[SOTK]

My marriage was arranged by God (or so my wife tells me, I really don't know how it happened).

:thumb: :D

[BillyBob]

I arranged all of my marriages......

[ShadowMaid]

How is that arranged then? I'll be honest; I don't know too much about arranged marriages, but I did think it meant that the woman did not have the choice.

No, that's more like betrothal (they mean different things, to clarify and avoid confusion).

It works simply, either a young man comes along, or you see one that you would be interested for a son-in-law. You talk to his parents, and you sort of arrange a possible marriage between the two.

[ShadowMaid]

I'm with you there, bro. It seems like you could keep shaking your head until dad brought in someone that made you give the nod.

And your family agree's, and you agree, the his family agree's, and he agree's. Nothing wrong there.

[SOTK]

No, that's more like betrothal (they mean different things, to clarify and avoid confusion).

It works simply, either a young man comes along, or you see one that you would be interested for a son-in-law. You talk to his parents, and you sort of arrange a possible marriage between the two.

:think:

But after all that arranging, the woman could say "No"? Basically, you are saying that you, as the woman and daughter, are not actively looking for a spouse, but your father is. And once he finds someone he likes, he approaches the young man and the young man's parents and asks them to take your hand in marriage? Right?

[Mr. 5020]

And your family agree's, and you agree, the his family agree's, and he agree's. Nothing wrong there.
I hope I get an invitation to your wedding. I've got this inkling that it will be "interesting."

And if not, hopefully BB will be invited, and he'll make it interesting.

[ShadowMaid]

:think:

But after all that arranging, the woman could say "No"? Basically, you are saying that you, as the woman and daughter, are not actively looking for a spouse, but your father is. And once he finds someone he likes, he approaches the young man and the young man's parents and asks them to take your hand in marriage? Right?

Not after it's all done, she would probably say no before it got to far it. But it's okay, because there's no emotional attachment involved. Just because the girl says no to a particular boy, doesn't mean she doesn't want to get married, it just means that he's not someone she is willing to marry.

[ShadowMaid]

[font=Verdana]I hope I get an invitation to your wedding. I've got this inkling that it will be "interesting."

Now why's that?

[Lighthouse]

I voted yes, but I would like to know who voted no.

I was also thinking more along the lines of what ShadowMaid said. I would not want a marriage where one or the other did not want to be involved. And it would be great if both families were happy for it as well.

[SOTK]

Not after it's all done, she would probably say no before it got to far it. But it's okay, because there's no emotional attachment involved. Just because the girl says no to a particular boy, doesn't mean she doesn't want to get married, it just means that he's not someone she is willing to marry.

Would there be a type of interview, so to speak, before it got to the point where your dad did the arranging? (an interview between you and the prospect ;) )

[Mr. 5020]

Now why's that?
I just want to walk around and listen to all the gossip about the arranged marriage. :)

[ShadowMaid]

Would there be a type of interview, so to speak, before it got to the point where your dad did the arranging? (an interview between you and the prospect ;) )

I'm sorry, but can you be more clear about what you mean? :) It seems to me, that once there's an interview, the arranging has begun.

[SOTK]

Well, you said that you would say, No, prior to the arranging process. How could you say, No, if you hadn't had some type of meeting with him?

[ShadowMaid]

Well, you said that you would say, No, prior to the arranging process. How could you say, No, if you hadn't had some type of meeting with him?

Lol, well I didn't mean that she would say no before knowing anything about him! Lets say she has met him before, then she could say no. Or her Dad has found out some about him, and something comes up and she would not tolerate in her marriage, she could say no. Does this make any sense?

[SOTK]

Yeah, I think I have a better picture of it. :) It's been good talking about this because I have two girls. I'm definitely gonna be heavily involved!

[ebenz47037]

I believe in arranged marriages. My reasoning is based on the differences I've seen between arranged marriages and marriages based on love alone. In the arranged marriages that I've witnessed (one just two years into the marriage, one eighteen years into the marriage, and one 47 years into the marriage), it seemed that the couple had more respect for each other and for their own and their spouse's families. All three couples realized that there has to be reasons other than "we're in love" to be married. And, all three couples seemed to take the contract of marriage more seriously than most married couples I've met. All three of them told me (when I asked) that they work hard to solve any problems, no matter how minor, because they don't want to let it get out of hand and lead to divorce. They also all three said that a divorce would, not only split up the family they had built together but, destroy the trust that their families had in them. The youngest couple were 25 (female) and 29 (male). She was worried that if they ever had a marriage/trust destroying problem in their marriage, that she would disappoint her parents and his parents. He said the same thing to me.

All three of the couples had known their spouse from childhood. The age differences were from 4 years to 12 years apart. All three women told me that their fathers asked them if they would be willing to marry the gentlemen in question before anything close to betrothal was approached. The oldest woman told me that her parents asked her to make a choice between five young men that they had deemed suitable.

As a parent, I think that arranging a marriage for your son or daughter is one of the utmost expressions of your love for your child because you are looking for someone who will treat them with the love and respect that you want them to have.

[ShadowMaid]

Yeah, I think I have a better picture of it. :) It's been good talking about this because I have two girls. I'm definitely gonna be heavily involved!

Good, you should! :thumb:

[ShadowMaid]

As a parent, I think that arranging a marriage for your son or daughter is one of the utmost expressions of your love for your child because you are looking for someone who will treat them with the love and respect that you want them to have.

:BRAVO:

[Lighthouse]

Nori-
:thumb:

[Mr. 5020]

Nori-
:thumb:
Lighthouse is counting on arranged marriages. His only chance of getting married is that some father forces him upon some poor daughter of his. :eek:

[SOTK]

Lighthouse is counting on arranged marriages. His only chance of getting married is that some father forces him upon some poor daughter of his. :eek:

:darwinsm:

[ebenz47037]

Lighthouse is counting on arranged marriages. His only chance of getting married is that some father forces him upon some poor daughter of his. :eek:

:chuckle: Actually, Brandon's quite a nice guy. Based on what I know about him, I would be willing to allow my daughter to marry him. Of course, it would be a few years yet. I want her to finish growing up. And, based on some of the things he's said, he needs to finish growing up as well. (This is being said in love, Brandon.)

[Lighthouse]

1] I actually meant to make that joke myself, and forgot.
2] I know I need to grow up. I need a lot of things before I would ever get married.
3] I honestly, do not want to think about who I might marry, at this time, because the realization that she might be 12-15, right now, is disturbing. Especially when some certain TOLers, ;), mention that they would let me marry their daughters.

[ebenz47037]

:chuckle: Honestly, I don't think that men should get married until they're at least in their mid twenties anyway. Don't worry, Brandon. I'm not rushing my daughter into your arms. :chuckle:

[SOTK]

:crackup:

I agree. Late twenties is probably even better! :up:

[ebenz47037]

I said at least their mid twenties. Steve was 34 when we got married. And, he was never married before.

[Yorzhik]

Actually, if a young man has the character, old enough to hold a job and sign a contract is old enough.

[Lighthouse]

I'm almost 25.:shocked:

[ebenz47037]

I'm almost 25.:shocked:

Man! You're getting old (this coming from a 36 year old.). :chuckle:

[Berean Todd]

I think it's good, it avoids the problems we have in society of people marrying for the wrong reasons and turning into throw away marriages. Heck, my wife and I often joke about my oldest son - we have some friends, a little older than us, who have sort of been mentors to us through the years, and are god-parents to my daughter. They have four beautiful daughters, it's a wonderful, godly home, and they are loaded with cash to boot. We often have joked about an arranged marriage between their youngest daughter and my oldest son, who are the same age.

[MrsDearDelmar]

As a parent, I think that arranging a marriage for your son or daughter is one of the utmost expressions of your love for your child because you are looking for someone who will treat them with the love and respect that you want them to have.[/QUOTE]

It's neat to hear positive stories about this subject. My first marriage was a bad one, had I trusted my parents and waited, things would be different. ( Although I wouldn't know that wonderful man I am married to now!)
We have joked with our daughter about this in another thread, but being involved in our children's lives when they get to that point is a good thing. Not being controlling, but helping and making suggestions.

[MrsDearDelmar]

1] I actually meant to make that joke myself, and forgot.
2] I know I need to grow up. I need a lot of things before I would ever get married.
3] I honestly, do not want to think about who I might marry, at this time, because the realization that she might be 12-15, right now, is disturbing. Especially when some certain TOLers, ;), mention that they would let me marry their daughters.

Yeah, Delmar says in 6 more years he will introduce our daughter to lighthouse!

[Granite]

How about letting people figure out who they love?

[Crow]

Just curious--has anyone here married as a result of an arrainged marriage?

[Lighthouse]

Yeah, Delmar says in 6 more years he will introduce our daughter to lighthouse!
*starts exercising, eating healthy, learning to drive, furthers education, gets real job...*

:eek:

[MrsDearDelmar]

*starts exercising, eating healthy, learning to drive, furthers education, gets real job...*

:eek:

:)

[RiotGurl]

[QUOTE=Lighthouse]I voted yes, but I would like to know who voted no.

I voted NO!!

[Granite]

I think they're a horrible mistake. Remember the line from "Fiddler on the Roof": the first time I saw you was our wedding day...

[Zakath]

Just curious--has anyone here married as a result of an arrainged marriage?
It's a small sample, but I personally know three couples living in America who were married as the result of an arranged marriage.

All three couples are Muslims.

All three marriages were arranged to benefit the bride's family.

Two of the three couples are currently divorced with considerable acrimony between the families. The third couple live apart in two separate states and maintain separate residences. The wife is raising the children. The husband sees the children about once a month.

In my very limited experience, arranged marriages seem to work no better than "unarranged" ones. :think:

[Dread Helm]

I voted yes, but I would like to know who voted no.

I voted NO!! And 6 others. :D

[Sold Out]

How about letting people figure out who they love?

Well, in scripture there were arranged marriages, but God also said in Psalm 18:22, "Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD."

Scripturally, it goes both ways, although we are not commanded to arrange marriages. I'm sure a lot of marriages were arranged during biblical times to ensure religious purity in the family (prevent paganism from creeping in). Also, the lineage of Christ had to be preserved.

I'm not for arranged marriages. I think if you train your children to seek a godly spouse, then they will make the right choice (hopefully!!).

Our 15 yr old son was dating a girl we were not real pleased about. We would kid around with him about it, but we never came out and said he couldn't see her. Well, he valued mom & dad's opinion enough to reconsider the relationship, and he decided not to date her anymore. He ended up telling us later that he had gotten caught up in the emotional part, but failed to see trouble ahead, and that by us interjecting our opinion in a joking way, he was able to see that she wasn't the type of girl a young Christian man should be dating.

[Granite]

Well, in scripture there were arranged marriages, but God also said in Psalm 18:22, "Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD."

Scripturally, it goes both ways, although we are not commanded to arrange marriages. I'm sure a lot of marriages were arranged during biblical times to ensure religious purity in the family (prevent paganism from creeping in). Also, the lineage of Christ had to be preserved.

I'm not for arranged marriages. I think if you train your children to seek a godly spouse, then they will make the right choice (hopefully!!).

Our 15 yr old son was dating a girl we were not real pleased about. We would kid around with him about it, but we never came out and said he couldn't see her. Well, he valued mom & dad's opinion enough to reconsider the relationship, and he decided not to date her anymore. He ended up telling us later that he had gotten caught up in the emotional part, but failed to see trouble ahead, and that by us interjecting our opinion in a joking way, he was able to see that she wasn't the type of girl a young Christian man should be dating.

As long as you're a good parent playing matchmaker shouldn't be necessary. I mean, talk about refusing to let your children grow up.

[Mr. 5020]

As long as you're a good parent playing matchmaker shouldn't be necessary. I mean, talk about refusing to let your children grow up.
"You can grow up when you get married, but as long as you're under my roof..."

[Lighthouse]

[QUOTE=Lighthouse]I voted yes, but I would like to know who voted no.

I voted NO!!
:chuckle:

[RiotGurl]

[QUOTE=RiotGurl]
:chuckle:

Nothing against you!! I'm just 100% against the idea!! :D

[Granite]

"You can grow up when you get married, but as long as you're under my roof..."

Any parent who's that big of a micromanager needs a nice, stiff reality check. Setting up your CHILDREN to be MARRIED? Let them live, for crying out loud.

[Poly]

Any parent who's that big of a micromanager needs a nice, stiff reality check. Setting up your CHILDREN to be MARRIED? Let them live, for crying out loud.

I fail to see anywhere on this thread where the parents have advocated doing this against the child's will, with him/her kicking and screaming, begging not to have to marry a person that the parents are forcing on them. I have seen where a mutual agreement by all parties involved has been suggested. Doesn't sound like the kids are being kept from "living".

[Lighthouse]

Nothing against you!! I'm just 100% against the idea!! :D
You wouldn't be willing to marry someone your dad thinks is a great guy?

Not that I'm thinking about actually marrying you...

[Granite]

I fail to see anywhere on this thread where the parents have advocated doing this against the child's will, with him/her kicking and screaming, begging not to have to marry a person that the parents are forcing on them. I have seen where a mutual agreement by all parties involved has been suggested. Doesn't sound like the kids are being kept from "living".

In an ideal situation a "mutual agreement" is a good sign for marriage but you don't need to arrange one for all parties to be happy. And frankly, even a successful marriage often involves a few in-laws (or whoever) not getting along. Just the way things go. Nothing is ever perfect and sometimes people just don't get along. The most important thing is ensuring the future couple does.

[Sold Out]

"You can grow up when you get married, but as long as you're under my roof..."

Thank you.....

[Poly]

In an ideal situation a "mutual agreement" is a good sign for marriage but you don't need to arrange one for all parties to be happy.

Says you.
Some parents feel that this helps to ensure a happier marriage. They don't just arbitrarily pick any old person. For instance, you may have 2 families, both putting heavy emphasis on teaching their kids exactly what it means to be a good wife or a good husband. They are sure to tell their kids that Hollywood's idea of love and marriage is false and they make sure that they realize what a good marriage is based on biblical standards.... a husband loving his wife so much, protecting her at all costs even if it means he must die for her and a wife having so much appreciation for this that she's finds it an honor to serve him and meet his needs. How could 2 kids finding interest in each other and coming from families such as this not be more likely to find happiness than kids who are under the false impression the world and Hollywood gives of marriage, only seeking to have their own needs met?

[Sold Out]

Says you.
Some parents feel that this helps to ensure a happier marriage. They don't just arbitrarily pick any old person. For instance, you may have 2 families, both putting heavy emphasis on teaching their kids exactly what it means to be a good wife or a good husband. They are sure to tell their kids that Hollywood's idea of love and marriage is false and they make sure that they realize what a good marriage is based on biblical standards.... a husband loving his wife so much, protecting her at all costs even if it means he must die for her and a wife having so much appreciation for this that she's finds it an honor to serve him and meet his needs. How could 2 kids finding interest in each other and coming from families such as this not be more likely to find happiness than kids who are under the false impression the world and Hollywood gives of marriage, only seeking to have their own needs met?

Yes, Yes, Yes!

My husband just got lucky when he married me, because I came from an absolute mess. I know that sounds weird, but what I'm saying is that he didn't have enough knowledge of the bible to know that you should only marry a believer. I just happened to be one, but he never asked. Only a miracle kept us intact. We will celebrate our 16th anniversary this Sunday!!

Now with my children, I want them to make informed decisions.

[Lucky]

...learning to drive...
You're 25 and you don't know how to drive?! :noway:

[Granite]

Says you.
Some parents feel that this helps to ensure a happier marriage. They don't just arbitrarily pick any old person. For instance, you may have 2 families, both putting heavy emphasis on teaching their kids exactly what it means to be a good wife or a good husband. They are sure to tell their kids that Hollywood's idea of love and marriage is false and they make sure that they realize what a good marriage is based on biblical standards.... a husband loving his wife so much, protecting her at all costs even if it means he must die for her and a wife having so much appreciation for this that she's finds it an honor to serve him and meet his needs. How could 2 kids finding interest in each other and coming from families such as this not be more likely to find happiness than kids who are under the false impression the world and Hollywood gives of marriage, only seeking to have their own needs met?

Poly, don't be contrary just for the sake of being contrary, for crying out loud. It's NICE if families and inlaws get along but it's not a requirement. The interests of the couple should be first and foremost, yes or no?

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by an "arranged" marriage. My mother's grandparents and greatgrandparents were both produced by arrangement--a blind wedding, so to speak, in the home country (Poland, in this case; my mother's people were and are Jewish). It sounds like you're talking about two families gently encouraging young folks to hook up. Not the same thing.

[Lighthouse]

Almost 25.:noid:

[Caledvwlch]

This reminds me of one of my favorite Irish drinking tunes:

"Mary Mack's father's making Mary Mack marry me
My father's making me marry Mary Mack..."

[Granite]

This reminds me of one of my favorite Irish drinking tunes:

"Mary Mack's father's making Mary Mack marry me
My father's making me marry Mary Mack..."

There's a group I encountered in a town called Beckford, goes by the name of Biggie Sullivan. Does a great cover of "Dirty Old Town." And "Mary Mack," of course.

[Caledvwlch]

There's a group I encountered in a town called Beckford, goes by the name of Biggie Sullivan. Does a great cover of "Dirty Old Town." And "Mary Mack," of course.
Beckford, eh? I drove through that hole once.

[Caledvwlch]

Beckford, eh? I drove through that hole once.
In my old Blue Volvo, I think.

[Poly]

Poly, don't be contrary just for the sake of being contrary, for crying out loud.

Explaining your false interpretation of what those on this board are suggesting is not being contrary.

It's NICE if families and inlaws get along but it's not a requiremThe interests of the couple should be first and foremost, yes or no?
Who said this was about making sure the inlaws get along? Yes, we're talking about what's best for the couple first and foremost. Not the in-laws.
Maybe I don't understand what you mean by an "arranged" marriage.

Then how about being honest enough to say that in the first place rather than implying a meaning that nobody on here has given for that term. It's already been suggested that it may mean different things to different people but none of descriptions given by those who advocate it, fit what you're implying in suggesting that it means refusing to let your kids grow up, not letting them "live". You're giving the impression that people here are talking about 2 kids who've never even spoken to each other or who have absolutely no say in the whole thing or who are forced to be married against their will.

[Granite]

Beckford, eh? I drove through that hole once.

It's come a long way for a college town. A lot of the old mills and whatever have been converted, offices and condos and all that happy schtuff.

[Granite]

Explaining your false interpretation of what those on this board are suggesting is not being contrary.


Who said this was about making sure the inlaws get along? Yes, we're talking about what's best for the couple first and foremost. Not the in-laws.


Then how about being honest enough to say that in the first place rather than implying a meaning that nobody on here has given for that term. It's already been suggested that it may mean different things to different people but none of descriptions fit what you're implying in suggesting that it means refusing to let your kids grow up, not letting them "live". You're giving the impression that people here are talking about 2 kids who've never even spoken to each other or who have absolutely no say in the whole thing or who are forced to be married against their will.

"False interpretation"? Okay, time out. I'm not LYING about anything here, I'm trying to understand what people mean by the term. "Arranged marriage" means different things to different people. I've yet to bump into anyone who's actually explained what it means to THEM. I have; you jumped down my throat. As I understand the term, "arranged marriage" is a situation where the future spouses have little to no input in the matter. The phrase may mean something completely different to somebody else. Until we get on the same page, please don't imply I'm deliberately trying to misrepresent anyone.

I'd appreciate it if you quit getting your nose in a twist just because I happen to rub you the wrong way.

[Yorzhik]

Well, in scripture there were arranged marriages, but God also said in Psalm 18:22, "Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD."
I agree. A man should be ready to find a wife by himself if his parents aren't willing to help. But if the parents are willing to help he should realize their wisdom and love for him will get better results.

Scripturally, it goes both ways, although we are not commanded to arrange marriages. I'm sure a lot of marriages were arranged during biblical times to ensure religious purity in the family (prevent paganism from creeping in). Also, the lineage of Christ had to be preserved.
I'm sure religious purity is a good idea. But I would be interested in a marriage wherein both parties don't just survive, but thrive. A big part of the process is finding someone that my child can not only work with, but have fun with, too.

It's too bad those Muslim marriages Zakath mentioned weren't interested in this. Look what good it did to arrange only for convenience.

I'm not for arranged marriages. I think if you train your children to seek a godly spouse, then they will make the right choice (hopefully!!).
You'd take that risk with your children? It might be wiser to minimize the risk because you make it clear there is a significant risk in what you say next:

Our 15 yr old son was dating a girl we were not real pleased about. We would kid around with him about it, but we never came out and said he couldn't see her. Well, he valued mom & dad's opinion enough to reconsider the relationship, and he decided not to date her anymore. He ended up telling us later that he had gotten caught up in the emotional part, but failed to see trouble ahead, and that by us interjecting our opinion in a joking way, he was able to see that she wasn't the type of girl a young Christian man should be dating.
Of course he got caught up in the emotional part. Everyone gets caught up emotionally. I know the girl got caught up in the emotional part as well, and I'll talk about that more in just a bit. Now consider - your boy had to tear apart his emotional attachment. Since she wasn't a girl that would have been good to marry, according to your standards, it may turn out to be better that he go through that pain in the long run. However, why set it up to put him through that pain? How much will that cost the girl he meets next, or his future wife? If the next girl doesn't work out, he'll have to tear through another emotional attachment - how much easier does that make it to tear up the next one, and the next one, and eventually the emotional attachment when he is married? And what of that girl that you don't approve of; I'm sure it hurt her to have her heart torn. What will she do next time? Will she feel she has to give more to the relationship to avoid the pain? You're taking risks with the girls your son is dating too, not just with your son.

[Sold Out]

Of course he got caught up in the emotional part. Everyone gets caught up emotionally. I know the girl got caught up in the emotional part as well, and I'll talk about that more in just a bit. Now consider - your boy had to tear apart his emotional attachment. Since she wasn't a girl that would have been good to marry, according to your standards, it may turn out to be better that he go through that pain in the long run. However, why set it up to put him through that pain? How much will that cost the girl he meets next, or his future wife? If the next girl doesn't work out, he'll have to tear through another emotional attachment - how much easier does that make it to tear up the next one, and the next one, and eventually the emotional attachment when he is married? And what of that girl that you don't approve of; I'm sure it hurt her to have her heart torn. What will she do next time? Will she feel she has to give more to the relationship to avoid the pain? You're taking risks with the girls your son is dating too, not just with your son.

I think you missed the point. We only joked with him about it, and not once did we ever say he could not see her. We trust his judgment, believe me, but as a teen, emotions are all over the place. It's a matter of focus. A woman has more power over a man than even God, so we know he has to be careful. We do have to learn to not let our emotions make decisions for us. I'm all for the 'in-love-butterflies-in-your-stomach' experience, but it does not last forever, so you have to have something worth building on for it to make it past that.

And for the girl....well they are still friends and she still comes over to hang out. She even made me a Mother's Day card on the computer saying how much she appreciated me making her feel welcome and for being a mother-figure to her. It's all good!!

[Gerald]

You wouldn't be willing to marry someone your dad thinks is a great guy?That depends upon the definition of "great guy"...

[Gerald]

And frankly, even a successful marriage often involves a few in-laws (or whoever) not getting along.I lucked out on that front: I have only one set of in-laws, my wife's, and we all get along fantastically. My side of the family is conspicuously absent.

[RiotGurl]

[QUOTE=Lighthouse]You wouldn't be willing to marry someone your dad thinks is a great guy?

I don't know, if I got introduced to this guy, got to know him, and dated for a while, then maybe!! But I'm not promising anything!! :firechyld

[Poly]

I've yet to bump into anyone who's actually explained what it means to THEM.

Can you read? Shadowmaid has gone to great lengths as well as a few others giving what "arranged marriage" means to them. It's been made out to be a positive thing with all parties being willing and eager to participate. Yet YOU want to suggest that it's something other than what they're saying it is. Why would one want to make it out to seem as if it's something done against the will of the child when the opposite has been said? They are either stupid or a little deceitful.

As I understand the term, "arranged marriage" is a situation where the future spouses have little to no input in the matter.
No, that's how YOU want others to think of arranged marriages so that people who advocate them will look stupid.

Until we get on the same page, please don't imply I'm deliberately trying to misrepresent anyone.
You're not interested in getting on the same page with those on this thread who've clearly explained what they mean by "arranged marriage". I know you're not stupid and I know you can read so you're obviously only interested in making them look foolish.

[SOTK]

As long as you're a good parent playing matchmaker shouldn't be necessary. I mean, talk about refusing to let your children grow up.

It seems to me that the children arguing for arranged marriage on this board are quite grown up!

[Yorzhik]

Can you read? Shadowmaid has gone to great lengths as well as a few others giving what "arranged marriage" means to them. It's been made out to be a positive thing with all parties being willing and eager to participate. Yet YOU want to suggest that it's something other than what they're saying it is. Why would one want to make it out to seem as if it's something done against the will of the child when the opposite has been said? They are either stupid or a little deceitful.


No, that's how YOU want others to think of arranged marriages so that people who advocate them will look stupid.


You're not interested in getting on the same page with those on this thread who've clearly explained what they mean by "arranged marriage". I know you're not stupid and I know you can read so you're obviously only interested in making them look foolish.
What Poly said.

Reps for Poly.

[ShadowMaid]

I don't know, if I got introduced to this guy, got to know him, and dated for a while, then maybe!! But I'm not promising anything!! :firechyld

I think arranged marriage is a beautiful thing. Not only does it show the love your parent has for you, but it shows the trust you have in your parent. I love and trust my Dad enough to know that he'll pick out a wonderfull spouse for me. And he loves me enough to know what a man for me should be like. We've talked about musts and must-nots in a husband for me, and it's really wonderful to be able to share something important as that with him, as it should be for every girl having a marrige arranged. It's a really happy, heart-warming subject to talk about. :)

So I highly suggest you think about this a little more, and see the benefits of an arranged marriage. :thumb:

[Gerald]

I love and trust my Dad enough to know that he'll pick out a wonderfull spouse for me. And he loves me enough to know what a man for me should be like. We've talked about musts and must-nots in a husband for me...
If I may be so bold, what are some of the "must-nots"? Is sterility one of them?

[ShadowMaid]

If I may be so bold, what are some of the "must-nots"? Is sterility one of them?

If I were in that sort of marriage, I would adopt. If he didn't want to adopt, I'm not sure if the marriage would work out.

[Mr. 5020]

If I were in that sort of marriage, I would adopt. If he didn't want to adopt, I'm not sure if the marriage would work out.
Did you answer the first question somewhere in there?

[ShadowMaid]

Did you answer the first question somewhere in there?

I gave one example, yes.

[Mr. 5020]

I gave one example, yes.
Oh, I see it now. What are some more "must-nots?"

[ShadowMaid]

Oh, I see it now. What are some more "must-nots?"

He can't be a different religion as myself.

[Yorzhik]

I think arranged marriage is a beautiful thing. Not only does it show the love your parent has for you, but it shows the trust you have in your parent. I love and trust my Dad enough to know that he'll pick out a wonderfull spouse for me. And he loves me enough to know what a man for me should be like. We've talked about musts and must-nots in a husband for me, and it's really wonderful to be able to share something important as that with him, as it should be for every girl having a marrige arranged. It's a really happy, heart-warming subject to talk about. :)

So I highly suggest you think about this a little more, and see the benefits of an arranged marriage. :thumb:
:o

[Mr. 5020]

He can't be a different religion as myself.
Like Baptist? :chuckle:

[ShadowMaid]

Like Baptist? :chuckle:

No, he can't be a baptist. :D

[ShadowMaid]

:o

Rep points for you! I just cant give you any. :madmad:

[Mr. 5020]

No, he can't be a baptist. :D
I'm :shocked:!

No, I'm not ... :(

[Zimfan]

Lighthouse is counting on arranged marriages. His only chance of getting married is that some father forces him upon some poor daughter of his. :eek:

I was just thinking the opposite for me. My only chance is a hormone induced lapse of judgement on the woman's part. No father would be desperate enough for his daughter to get married to want me to marry her. :eek:

[Mr. 5020]

I was just thinking the opposite for me. My only chance is a hormone induced lapse of judgement on the woman's part. No father would be desperate enough for his daughter to get married to want me to marry her. :eek:
:chuckle:

I lean more towards the other side, but I know plenty of guys with you there, Zimster.

[ShadowMaid]

I'm :shocked:!

No, I'm not ... :(

But I'm not a baptist... I don't see much reason to marry one. We wouldn't get along.

[Mr. 5020]

But I'm not a baptist... I don't see much reason to marry one. We wouldn't get along.
No kidding. :chuckle:

[Lucky]

He can't be a different religion as myself.
I think what you mean to say is (Christian) denomination.

[Mr. 5020]

I think what you mean to say is (Christian) denomination.
Yep.

[Jujubee]

I think that is is god's will as to who you will be with... not someone elses descision

[Zimfan]

I think what you mean to say is (Christian) denomination.

That seems a bit restrictive.

[Mr. 5020]

That seems a bit restrictive.
So does letting your dad pick your mate, eh mate?

[Mr. 5020]

I think that is is god's will as to who you will be with... not someone elses descision
I'm on your side, but I'm not liking the argument. God does place people in authority over us.

[Lucky]

That seems a bit restrictive.
Yes it is, but it's not like that's a bad thing.

One less thing to argue about...

[ShadowMaid]

I think what you mean to say is (Christian) denomination.

I would have thought so, but last time I phrased my setence like that, someone said I meant religion. :confused:

[Zimfan]

So does letting your dad pick your mate, eh mate?

Yep.

[ShadowMaid]

I think that is is god's will as to who you will be with... not someone elses descision

God does set guide-lines for us to follow when choosing a spouse. :)

[Zimfan]

What denomination are you, Shadowmaid?

[ShadowMaid]

What denomination are you, Shadowmaid?

Acts 9 dispensationalist, OV! :thumb:

[Zimfan]

And I take it that Baptists aren't dispensationalists?

[ShadowMaid]

And I take it that Baptists aren't dispensationalists?

Not Acts 9, and not all are OV.

[Zimfan]

How many types of Dispensationalists are there?

[ShadowMaid]

How many types of Dispensationalists are there?

Actually... I'm not sure. :think:

[Zimfan]

What makes Act 9 Dispensationalism different from the others?

[ShadowMaid]

What makes Act 9 Dispensationalism different from the others?

I trust you're a little familiar with Mr. Enyart. He's my pastor.

[Lucky]

What makes Act 9 Dispensationalism different from the others?
I think the most important aspect of dispensationalism is when the dispensation of grace began, simply because it's our dispensation, so to speak. And that's probably where most of the debate is among dispensationalists: when did "our" dispensation start? So you can probably differentiate between the various dispensationalisms based on that factor.

There's Acts 9, or Mid-Acts, dispensationalism, which says our dispensation officially started with the conversion of Paul, which is in there around Acts 9. I think there's also Acts 2 dispensationalism, or something like that. Where our dispensation began with Pentecost, or the beginning of Acts, something like that. I'm no expert.

[Zimfan]

I think the most important aspect of dispensationalism is when the dispensation of grace began, simply because it's our dispensation, so to speak. And that's probably where most of the debate is among dispensationalists: when did "our" dispensation start? So you can probably differentiate between the various dispensationalisms based on that factor.

There's Acts 9, or Mid-Acts, dispensationalism, which says our dispensation officially started with the conversion of Paul, which is in there around Acts 9. I think there's also Acts 2 dispensationalism, or something like that. Where our dispensation began with Pentecost, or the beginning of Acts, something like that. I'm no expert.

So it comes down to splitting hairs, then?

[ebenz47037]

"False interpretation"? Okay, time out. I'm not LYING about anything here, I'm trying to understand what people mean by the term. "Arranged marriage" means different things to different people. I've yet to bump into anyone who's actually explained what it means to THEM. I have; you jumped down my throat. As I understand the term, "arranged marriage" is a situation where the future spouses have little to no input in the matter. The phrase may mean something completely different to somebody else. Until we get on the same page, please don't imply I'm deliberately trying to misrepresent anyone.

I'd appreciate it if you quit getting your nose in a twist just because I happen to rub you the wrong way.

I described arranged marriages that I've known about in post #36 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=744929&postcount=36), granite.

[Zimfan]

I trust you're a little familiar with Mr. Enyart. He's my pastor.

A little familiar is a good way to put it. I don't really know what he teaches, but judging from the number of people here that I respect who hold him in high regard it must be scripturally sound.

[Lucky]

So it comes down to splitting hairs, then?
Also known as "rightly dividing the word of truth.*" ;)

*2 Timothy 2:15

[Zimfan]

I think that rednecks are only allowed to hijack threads for :spam: ing purposes so I'll get back to the topic now.

As long as noone is forced to marry anyone else I don't see anything wrong with arranged marriages. I can't say that I would want one myself. I supose that I've been left to my own devices by my parents for so long that I'd resent the interference.

I'm actually a little thankful my family doesn't practice arranged marriages. If they did my paternal grandparents would never have married. My grandfather's family didn't want him marrying a catholic(I'm sure why they would have expected him to marry a catholic. He wasn't one himself) and my grandmother's family didn't want her marrying a lowly Irishman(They were English and Welsh and could trace their lineage back to the Wedgwoods and a certain peot by the name of Wordsworth). If they weren't willing to go against their parent's wishes, I wouldn't be here. There marriages lasted forty plus years(until my grandfather died). On the other hand, my parents' marriage, which very well could have been arranged considering how much their families approved of the match, ended in divorce.

[Zimfan]

Also known as "rightly dividing the word of truth.*" ;)

*2 Timothy 2:15

Hmm...the more I hear about the things churches argue about, the more I want to join your post-congregationalist non-church.

[Mr. 5020]

Wow, the poll evened out ... 10-10.

The only :loser:s are the undecided ones.

[Granite]

I described arranged marriages that I've known about in post #36 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=744929&postcount=36), granite.

Thanks. Still think it's a pretty terrible idea, but that's just me.

[Granite]

Can you read? Shadowmaid has gone to great lengths as well as a few others giving what "arranged marriage" means to them. It's been made out to be a positive thing with all parties being willing and eager to participate. Yet YOU want to suggest that it's something other than what they're saying it is. Why would one want to make it out to seem as if it's something done against the will of the child when the opposite has been said? They are either stupid or a little deceitful.


No, that's how YOU want others to think of arranged marriages so that people who advocate them will look stupid.


You're not interested in getting on the same page with those on this thread who've clearly explained what they mean by "arranged marriage". I know you're not stupid and I know you can read so you're obviously only interested in making them look foolish.

Poly, grow up. Are you so petty that you think someone who disagrees with you is automatically a liar? Real sad, lady. I described how I understood the term; either you've never encountered arranged marriages like I described, or you think I'm making this stuff up. Either way you're overreacting here. I think arranged marriages are a rotten idea no matter HOW you slice the phrase. I'd appreciate it if you quit assuming I'm trying to lie or trick someone here. I think everyone's smart enough to figure things out for themselves.

[Lighthouse]

Of course he got caught up in the emotional part. Everyone gets caught up emotionally. I know the girl got caught up in the emotional part as well, and I'll talk about that more in just a bit. Now consider - your boy had to tear apart his emotional attachment. Since she wasn't a girl that would have been good to marry, according to your standards, it may turn out to be better that he go through that pain in the long run. However, why set it up to put him through that pain? How much will that cost the girl he meets next, or his future wife? If the next girl doesn't work out, he'll have to tear through another emotional attachment - how much easier does that make it to tear up the next one, and the next one, and eventually the emotional attachment when he is married?
Don't forget the risk of emotional attachment becoming non-existant, in an attempt to not be hurt again, and therefore being distant in a relationship, which would make it fall apart quickly.

[Lighthouse]

I don't know, if I got introduced to this guy, got to know him, and dated for a while, then maybe!! But I'm not promising anything!! :firechyld
:crackup:

[Granite]

Don't forget the risk of emotional attachment becoming non-existant, in an attempt to not be hurt again, and therefore being distant in a relationship, which would make it fall apart quickly.

Some pre-packaged Dr. Phil for you, folks.:rolleyes:

[Lighthouse]

Some pre-packaged Dr. Phil for you, folks.:rolleyes:
Dr. Phil's a quack.

[Poly]

Rep points for you! I just cant give you any. :madmad:

I took care of it for ya! :up:

[Mustard Seed]

Why are you for or against arranged marriages?

They place too great a burden of responsibility on the parents. Not for the present day.

[Mustard Seed]

It's like having an earthly king, do-able, but not recomended.

19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

--1 Sam 10:19

[Delmar]

You wouldn't be willing to marry someone your dad thinks is a great guy?

Not that I'm thinking about actually marrying you...
She's doen't like to admit it but she knows I have very good taste in such matters.

[ShadowMaid]

:thumb:

[Lighthouse]

She's doen't like to admit it but she knows I have very good taste in such matters.
"You think you know me, but you have no idea."

[Christine]

And I take it that Baptists aren't dispensationalists?
Most Baptists are Acts 2 dispensationalists. :)

[Yorzhik]

They place too great a burden of responsibility on the parents. Not for the present day.
No, really, it's not too great a responsibility. But thanks for your concern.

Just because it's harder to do the right thing in a culture that does things differently doesn't mean that you don't do it.

:edit to fix typo

[Knight]

Arranged marriages are morally neutral.

They could be both good or bad depending on the conditions.

Therefore I cannot vote. :)

[Mr. 5020]

Arranged marriages are morally neutral.

They could be both good or bad depending on the conditions.

Therefore I cannot vote. :)Maybe you could change "No Opinion" to "No Opinion / Other" and then vote.

[Mustard Seed]

No, really, it's not too great a responsibility. But thanks for your concern.


The child can always blame the fact that their marriage didn't work out on their parents and to some degree they could very well be right.


Just because it's harder to do the right thing in a culture that does things differently doesn't mean that you don't do it.

:edit to fix typo

Arranged marriages are not the right thing in this culture at this moment.

[Mr. 5020]

Arranged marriages are not the right thing in this culture at this moment.Oohhhhhhhh....Yorzhik got served!!!

[Zimfan]

Wow, this thread had been dead for a while.

P.S. :spam:

[Mustard Seed]

Wow, this thread had been dead for a while.

P.S. :spam:


Yep. I had to respond though. For some reason I didn't recall seeing that response to my previous post.

[Mr. 5020]

Wow, this thread had been dead for a while.

P.S. :spam:I went on a thread-resurrecting rampage earlier.

[Zimfan]

Yep. I had to respond though. For some reason I didn't recall seeing that response to my previous post.

That happens a lot. You don't check a thread because you're busy for a few days, then it goes off your subscribe list and you never know someone was waiting for your post.

[Zimfan]

I went on a thread-resurrecting rampage earlier.
It was a valiant effort, but I think someone may have to make a substantive post for the thread to be truly revived. That, or say something offensive that'll get a bunch of people to feel the need to post here to vehemently deny it and/or lambaste the offending poster. Something like this:

Arranged marriages suck, and people who support them dress funny!

:nananana: :mock: :arranged :marriage supporters: :nananana:

[SOTK]

Oohhhhhhhh....Yorzhik got served!!!

:chuckle:

[Zimfan]

Yep. I had to respond though. For some reason I didn't recall seeing that response to my previous post.

It was a good response, too, and exactly the kind of post we need if this thread is going to get rolling again. I was just surprised at how long it'd been since the thread's last post. It had seemed just like yesterday that I was posting in it!

[SOTK]

I think this is an interesting topic as well. It sure ran out of steam quickly though.

[Zimfan]

Well, we could start discussing the issue...

[Mustard Seed]

Well, we could start discussing the issue...


Don't know quite what you have in mind.

Well I was manning a set up (a booth) we had (while I was on my LDS mission) and a man from Saudi Arabia came up and was interested (more in us as 'interesting' specimens of american young men than our religion) He went about describing how marraiges were arranged in his corner of the arab world. I'd just assumed they all had arranged marriages carried out by the parents. He talked about how if you saw a girl (well likely just her eyes or maybe face possibly some hair, and only for a short time as gazing at eyes for any period of time in their culture is taboo from what I understand) then you'd keep her in mind then you'd talk to your sisters about her who in turn would talk to her sisters and line up a brief meeting. If things worked out you went from there. I thought it was neat that despite the covert and semi oppressed nature it still gave (seemingly for the guy anyway) some choice. It also was interesting to think how much better we might treat our siblings if we knew they were our primary means of finding a good spouse.

I know that it's not much. But I tried.

[Zimfan]

:think: That is rather interesting, but rather tough on those that don't have siblings(or even just don't have sisters!).

[ShadowMaid]

The child can always blame the fact that their marriage didn't work out on their parents and to some degree they could very well be right.

I think arranged marriage would work better, because the parents really REALLY care what happens to their child. A child who is emotionally attached to their boyfriend/girlfriend will overlook the things that might destroy their marriages.

Arranged marriages are not the right thing in this culture at this moment.

Might I inquire as to why? Why couldn't parents arrange a marriage for their child? And when would be the right moment?

[elohiym]

All marriages are arranged. Either someone is arranging it for you, or you are arranging it for yourself. However, in the light that arranged marriages are being discussed on this thread, I support them. I would prefer them for my children.

We don't believe in dating, so it's going to come down to an arranged marriage eventually.

[anna]

All marriages are arranged. Either someone is arranging it for you, or you are arranging it for yourself. However, in the light that arranged marriages are being discussed on this thread, I support them. I would prefer them for my children.

We don't believe in dating, so it's going to come down to an arranged marriage eventually.

That's interesting. I don't believe in dating either, but I wouldn't know how to keep my children from dating if I had any. I think it would be difficult for me to explain to them why dating in the traditional sence isn't wise. I guess it would all come down to whether or not my children could trust me to give them advise and wheter they have enough patience to wait for the right person to marry and have the wisdom to know when they have met the right person to marry. :think:

[Mustard Seed]

All marriages are arranged. Either someone is arranging it for you, or you are arranging it for yourself. However, in the light that arranged marriages are being discussed on this thread, I support them. I would prefer them for my children.

We don't believe in dating, so it's going to come down to an arranged marriage eventually.


I believe the 'aranged' is implicitly arranged by those not actually getting married. I understand the technicality though.

Just be ready for your kids to blame you if they have a failed marriage.

I love my parents. On many things I trust their judgement. But on the topic of my future wife I KNOW that I am better capable of finding the right woman for me, and will be far more willing to invest in the choice I make, in a marriage I arrange.

[Mustard Seed]

I think arranged marriage would work better, because the parents really REALLY care what happens to their child. A child who is emotionally attached to their boyfriend/girlfriend will overlook the things that might destroy their marriages.

Parents need to know boundaries. I'm certain my parents could set me up with a capable woman who would be able to provide temporal things to me and my childeren sufficiently. But my parents have only the slightest incling of my innerself. They know me, but not the way I know me. If all you see marriage as is a way to secure the well being of your kids then you have a terrible view of marriage. If you train a child up in the way they are to go then they will not depart from it when they're old. Sure kids make mistakes. But I don't give parents a free pass. Parents, through the ages, have screwed up a great many lives simply because what they saw as being in their childs best interest wasn't considering all the aspects of that childs needs.

Hormonal influences are strong. But they are not inherently evil. If you trust your kids, and your raising of them, why would you take back that trust the moment they came to the most important decision of their life? It would be like God stepping in at the very moment you were going to show what you were truly made of only to have the entire test, the entire experience for which you've been training, reduced to just another parental intervention.

Monarchies had their place. Righteous kings make them wonderful institutions. Sadly most don't experience such saintly rulers, and even the best intentioned rulers have some snafus. Monarchies are like parentaly arranged marriages, they had a time and place in the world but are now past their usefullness. Like the mosaic law they have been 'fullfilled' and we now have the greater option. Agency.

Trust your kids. Don't take away their first paycheck after they've left the house and then ration it "so they don't make any horrible mistakes" let your kids grow up. Let them grow up. Let them choose for themselves who they will spend the rest of their lives with. If you don't I promise that you will, at some point in the future, regret it, and so might your kids.



Might I inquire as to why? Why couldn't parents arrange a marriage for their child? And when would be the right moment?

Because we live in an age where it's not required for physical survival and perpetuation of the society. We live in a world where self determination is the catalyst of our societies integrity, yes it leads to serious problems, but if we got rid of it we'd be in welfare state, only instead of 'securing' our financial outcomes it would 'secure' our character's outcome.

LET YOUR KIDS GROW UP!!! LET THEM DO IT WITHOUT YOU DECIDING WHAT GROWING UP WILL ENTAIL.

[Mustard Seed]

We don't believe in dating, so it's going to come down to an arranged marriage eventually.


What do you define as dating?

[Lighthouse]

Methinks Mustard Stain should just shut up. I don't see too many people agreeing with his ignorant behind.

[elohiym]

What do you define as dating?Sampling the milk without buying the cow. :)

[Mustard Seed]

Sampling the milk without buying the cow. :)

If you mean sampling the milk being anything beyond a simple peck of the lips and hug. Then I'd agree with you as to it's impropriety.

I've always grown up with the idea that dating wa not suppose to envolve any deep physical contact. It was suppose to be a time to get to know each other by doing wholesome recreational activities together. I think intimate sexual relationships of any stripe are ONLY for after marriage. And even then there are bounds.

[Mustard Seed]

Methinks Mustard Stain should just shut up. I don't see too many people agreeing with his ignorant behind.

That's clearly your problem. We are not discussing my behind, nor it's lack of a central nervous system capable of interpersonal communication (on it's own). We're discussing arranged marriages.

If I had a dollar for every user here that thinks you should shut up much of the time I'd be well on my way to an upper level subscription here on TOL, and a few more smilies too.

[Mr. 5020]

If I had a dollar for every user here that thinks you [Lighthouse] should shut up much of the time I'd be well on my way to an upper level subscription here on TOL, and a few more smilies too.This is true.

[anna]

Sampling the milk without buying the cow. :)

:thumb: and having undefined relationships without any comitment to the other person's well being

[anna]

Methinks Mustard Stain should just shut up. I don't see too many people agreeing with his ignorant behind.

Just because a person's view is unpopular doesn't mean we should't give that person a chance to say what he thinks. I'd like to hear some of Mustard Seed's comments. I think that alot of parents are afraid to let their children make mistakes. I would be too if I was a parent, but I would hope that when I have my own children that I would not allow my fear to keep my child from learning.

[Mustard Seed]

Just because a person's view is unpopular doesn't mean we should't give that person a chance to say what he thinks.

Nor does it mean that they are incorrect. A great many towns that kicked the apostles out (and Christ's hometown where he was kicked out) had the same philosophy carried to it's extreem.

I'd like to hear some of Mustard Seed's comments. I think that alot of parents are afraid to let their children make mistakes. I would be too if I was a parent, but I would hope that when I have my own children that I would not allow my fear to keep my child from learning.

I appreciate the above.

[ShadowMaid]

Hormonal influences are strong. But they are not inherently evil. If you trust your kids, and your raising of them, why would you take back that trust the moment they came to the most important decision of their life? It would be like God stepping in at the very moment you were going to show what you were truly made of only to have the entire test, the entire experience for which you've been training, reduced to just another parental intervention.

I don't understand how an arranged marriage would stop this most important decision of their life. The child cannot be forced into this, it's their choice. It's still a very important decision, and the parent is trusting, or hoping, that the child will make the right one.


Trust your kids. Don't take away their first paycheck after they've left the house and then ration it "so they don't make any horrible mistakes" let your kids grow up. Let them grow up. Let them choose for themselves who they will spend the rest of their lives with. If you don't I promise that you will, at some point in the future, regret it, and so might your kids.

There are times to trust your kids, and there are times to not trust them. Or, you trust your kids but you don't trust the situation the child will get into, or has gotten into.

LET YOUR KIDS GROW UP!!! LET THEM DO IT WITHOUT YOU DECIDING WHAT GROWING UP WILL ENTAIL.

I still don't understand how an arranged marriage would stop the child from growing up.

[Yorzhik]

I love my parents. On many things I trust their judgement. But on the topic of my future wife I KNOW that I am better capable of finding the right woman for me, and will be far more willing to invest in the choice I make, in a marriage I arrange.
I realize it would be a safe bet in any circumstance, but I'd be willing to bet that you were not homeschooled - more likely public schooled (although a number of private schools are not better pubic schools).

[anna]

Nor does it mean that they are incorrect. A great many towns that kicked the apostles out (and Christ's hometown where he was kicked out) had the same philosophy carried to it's extreem.



I appreciate the above.

Good point. Jesus was unpopular with his own people.

You're welcome.

btw. can you tell me how to quote a post without quoting the entire post.?I tried the FAQ section and didn't ask the right question.

[Lighthouse]

anna-
Firstly, Mustard Stain is a Mormon. The majority of people at TOL do not agree with him. And he also seems to be th eonly Mormon who sticks around.

As for quoting without quoting the entire post, the only thing you can do is delete the sections of the quote you don't want to quote.

[Mustard Seed]

anna-
Firstly, Mustard Stain is a Mormon. The majority of people at TOL do not agree with him. And he also seems to be th eonly Mormon who sticks around.

"She's a witch! She turned me into a newt!... ...I got better!"

The fact that I am one of the few mormons on here is proof that, on Mormonnism at least, many don't agree with me. If they did they would become adherents of the LDS faith.


As for quoting without quoting the entire post, the only thing you can do is delete the sections of the quote you don't want to quote.

You can put anything in quotes. all you have to do is take the "[" folowed by the word "quote" followed by "]" then insert whatever you want in the quote box then use the same brackets to end it off. Only this time instead of "quote" put "/quote" inbetween them.

If you want it to say who is being quoted then you just put an "=thepersonsname" after the first braketed "quote" but still inbetween the brackets "[]".

This works for colors too. Just put the word "color" in place of the word "quote" then follow the first "color" with an "=" and the color you want. It'll look like "color=firebrickred" only with quotes around it.

If you quote (actualy click on the button at the lower right of their post that says "quote") someone's post that has a feature that you like you can then see the code they used to accomplish what they did. Whether it's enlarged type or a scrolling smilie.

[anna]

anna-
Firstly, Mustard Stain is a Mormon. The majority of people at TOL do not agree with him. And he also seems to be th eonly Mormon who sticks around.

As for quoting without quoting the entire post, the only thing you can do is delete the sections of the quote you don't want to quote.

I don't care what the majority of people think of Mustard Seed. I don't agree with everything that Mustard Seed says either. I think it is silly to allow other people to do our own thinking. If I disagree with someone, it is because I personaly don't think that what they are saying makes sence to me.

Thanks, Mustard Seed. I was looking for that kind of instuction. I just didn't know how to ask the FAQ the right question. :thumb:

[Zimfan]

Methinks Mustard Stain should just shut up. I don't see too many people agreeing with his ignorant behind.

I agree with him, at least on this issue.

anna-
Firstly, Mustard Stain is a Mormon. The majority of people at TOL do not agree with him. And he also seems to be th eonly Mormon who sticks around.

As for quoting without quoting the entire post, the only thing you can do is delete the sections of the quote you don't want to quote.

Well, actually as a Mormon, he's more likely to be in step with most of the moral and political beliefs than your average Protestant Christian. :p

[anna]

Well, actually as a Mormon, he's more likely to be in step with most of the moral and political beliefs than your average Protestant Christian. :p

How so? I'm just curious. :angel:

[Zimfan]

How so? I'm just curious. :angel:

Mormons tend to be on the conservative side both morally and poilitically, as are most of the poeple here on TOL. I know from reading his posts that Mustard Seed is in line with most of TOL's Christian posters on moral issues like abortion, pre-marital sex, etc. I expect that, if he votes or supports any political party at all, it's the republican party, again like most of the posters here.

Protestants in general, in the U.S. at least, are about as likely to be politically and/or religiously liberal as conservative. As such, a protestant picked at random from the general population is probably further apart from your average TOL poster on moral and political issues than a random Mormon.

[Mustard Seed]

Mormons tend to be on the conservative side both morally and poilitically, as are most of the poeple here on TOL. I know from reading his posts that Mustard Seed is in line with most of TOL's Christian posters on moral issues like abortion, pre-marital sex, etc. I expect that, if he votes or supports any political party at all, it's the republican party, again like most of the posters here.

Protestants in general, in the U.S. at least, are about as likely to be politically and/or religiously liberal as conservative. As such, a protestant picked at random from the general population is probably further apart from your average TOL poster on moral and political issues than a random Mormon.


We're not as conservative as we're painted. I wish many here in Utah were more conservative. I guess in many ways I'm the far right of the far right, not on everything, but on alot.

[Zimfan]

We're not as conservative as we're painted. I wish many here in Utah were more conservative. I guess in many ways I'm the far right of the far right, not on everything, but on alot.

:think: I had no idea...

[Mustard Seed]

:think: I had no idea...


When I hear the statements made to the effect that Utah's state legislature is the most fiscaly conservative and sound in the Nation it scares me to no end. We may be in first place, but when the rest of the nation isn't doing so hot that's not inherently saying much. Too many of us, in my view, are ready to succumb to socialst pressures of wealth realocation via the government DESPITE the warnings of leaders given not many decades ago against socialism and other related ailments in society.

[Zimfan]

Is Utah running a deficit?

[Mustard Seed]

Is Utah running a deficit?

Not to my knowledge, but forces in the government seem plenty ready to cut into reserves that were meant for a truly rainy day when none such exists. They are also willing to allow enviromental wackos gut a desperately needed freeway project. Now we're aiming to be as densly populated as LA with only one major freeway.

[Zimfan]

Not to my knowledge, but forces in the government seem plenty ready to cut into reserves that were meant for a truly rainy day when none such exists.

Of course, why worry about some economic disaster that may occur in the future when you need to buy votes now ! :devil: Don't ya just hate politicians.

They are also willing to allow enviromental wackos gut a desperately needed freeway project. Now we're aiming to be as densly populated as LA with only one major freeway.

Why would the wackos want to gut a freeway project? Is the habitat of some nasty form of poisonous fungus going to be destroyed?

[Mustard Seed]

Of course, why worry about some economic disaster that may occur in the future when you need to buy votes now ! :devil: Don't ya just hate politicians.



Why would the wackos want to gut a freeway project? Is the habitat of some nasty form of poisonous fungus going to be destroyed?

No, it would just take out a few acres of wetlands that were MAN MADE originaly, they are not the 'native' habitat of utah. And never mind that they are being replaced AND THEN SOME by a portion of the agreement that mandates the creation of such. So you're labeled as evil for destroying, and then recreating plus, man made wetlands. Yet our politicians caved, cut the road short of going anywhere near as far north as it was going to and then BANNING truckers from using the new road. I mean the major reason iti was going to be built was to support and freeup interstate traffic through the state. But no there's a bunch off wacked out...

Never mind...

We were talking about arranged marriages. Any other contributions? Comments on the subject?

[Mustard Seed]

I don't understand how an arranged marriage would stop this most important decision of their life. The child cannot be forced into this, it's their choice. It's still a very important decision, and the parent is trusting, or hoping, that the child will make the right one.

It sounds like your talking about chosing arranged marriage. Are you saying that you'd prefer to have all potential spouses go through your parents before you decide? That sounds like your parents deciding what stuff they'll allow you to purchase with your money that you earn in your job, then you may have a choice but it would only be to buy or not buy.


There are times to trust your kids, and there are times to not trust them. Or, you trust your kids but you don't trust the situation the child will get into, or has gotten into.

But this is precisly the point. I know there are situations and times that I would not trust myself, be I 16 or 60. The point is that once you reach a certain point in your life, the period we call adult hood, you should be at full liberty to chose when and where you will be. If you are forever stuck with a curfew, a permited allowance, imposed by your parents then you are not really ever maturing fully. If you want to be a responsible adult then you must be granted the opportunity to make the choices inherent to adulthood.



I still don't understand how an arranged marriage would stop the child from growing up.

It would keep them, in the most vital decision of their life, dependant on momsy and popsy. Independence from Mom and Dad is vital to TRUE adulthood AND to a successful husband wife relationship. It would be far harder for a man to leave his parents and a woman to leave hers and join together, and become one, if they had that kind of tie to their parents.

[anna]

sorry if I encouraged y'all to get off the topic : :eek:

I think it must be neat for a child to have the kind of relationship with his parents that would allow him to trust his parents to decide who he marries. If they are wise, they will keep him from alot of trouble. I don't think that I would the confidence that I had the wisdom to make that kind of decision for my children, though. I would really have to be on my knees.

[Mustard Seed]

I realize it would be a safe bet in any circumstance, but I'd be willing to bet that you were not homeschooled - more likely public schooled (although a number of private schools are not better pubic schools).


I did go through public school, that doesn't inherently mean I was schooled by the public.

What does this have to do with arranged marriage, if I might venture the question?

[Mustard Seed]

sorry if I encouraged y'all to get off the topic : :eek:

I think it must be neat for a child to have the kind of relationship with his parents that would allow him to trust his parents to decide who he marries. If they are wise, they will keep him from alot of trouble. I don't think that I would the confidence that I had the wisdom to make that kind of decision for my children, though. I would really have to be on my knees.

I think that may be true but I think it far more preferable if the parents trust the child (who is no longer a CHILD) to discern for themselves. If they are wise they will see the import of him or her being the prime aribter of who they spend the rest of their lives with.

If you advocate arranged marriage then why not advocate arranged careers. A parent may well know better than a child what they could make a good living at.

Essentialy you can play the trust card both ways. I think more effectively in my view. If the parents trust both the child and what they've taught them then I think it would be the wisest course for them to, after having all they could in prudance to guide them, let them try and fly WITHOUT the safety net below the nest. THEN they will invest there all, if they know that they MUST make it work between their choice, themselves and God THEN they will make the choices and take the initiative that will not be as likely to leave them at the ground underneath the nest, if they always think momsy and popsy can save them or be there to chose for them, or to get there opinion on every little detail then they will always utilize that cruch.

[ShadowMaid]

It sounds like your talking about chosing arranged marriage. Are you saying that you'd prefer to have all potential spouses go through your parents before you decide? That sounds like your parents deciding what stuff they'll allow you to purchase with your money that you earn in your job, then you may have a choice but it would only be to buy or not buy.

Oh yes! I'm very excited about an arranged marriage! And why wouldn't I want my potential spouses to go through my Dad? Even if I were dating, I would look to Dad for approval. Looking to Dad for approval isn't hanging onto childhood to long, is it? :think:

But this is precisly the point. I know there are situations and times that I would not trust myself, be I 16 or 60. The point is that once you reach a certain point in your life, the period we call adult hood, you should be at full liberty to chose when and where you will be. If you are forever stuck with a curfew, a permited allowance, imposed by your parents then you are not really ever maturing fully. If you want to be a responsible adult then you must be granted the opportunity to make the choices inherent to adulthood.

Absolutely! You can't look to your parents for money all the time. Or a car, or a job. You would become lazy then.

It would keep them, in the most vital decision of their life, dependant on momsy and popsy. Independence from Mom and Dad is vital to TRUE adulthood AND to a successful husband wife relationship. It would be far harder for a man to leave his parents and a woman to leave hers and join together, and become one, if they had that kind of tie to their parents.

No, I don't think so. I love my Dad, and I tell him many many things. When I'm married, I hope I'll e-mail him all the time. He is full of the wisdom I lack, and he's funny, and he's caring. My relationship with him should, in fact, improve my marriage.

It's a very important decision. The point you're missing or not trying to see, is that it's all up to me. If I like the man in question, and Dad does not, I can go and marry him anyway. Or lets say Dad doesn't agree, and I see his reasons. They're very good reasons, so I have to make the big choice all on my own, whether I will listen to these reasons, or whether I will run back into arms I deemed worthy. It's not up to Dad, he can't force me to say yes or no.

Of course, I think loving parents make very good guardian angels. ^_^ It doesn't mean you're not becoming a responsible adult.

[anna]

I think that may be true but I think it far more preferable if the parents trust the child (who is no longer a CHILD) to discern for themselves. If they are wise they will see the import of him or her being the prime aribter of who they spend the rest of their lives with.

If you advocate arranged marriage then why not advocate arranged careers. A parent may well know better than a child what they could make a good living at.

Essentialy you can play the trust card both ways. I think more effectively in my view. If the parents trust both the child and what they've taught them then I think it would be the wisest course for them to, after having all they could in prudance to guide them, let them try and fly WITHOUT the safety net below the nest. THEN they will invest there all, if they know that they MUST make it work between their choice, themselves and God THEN they will make the choices and take the initiative that will not be as likely to leave them at the ground underneath the nest, if they always think momsy and popsy can save them or be there to chose for them, or to get there opinion on every little detail then they will always utilize that cruch.

Right now I think that it is better to allow the children to make the decision on who to marry.I consider the idea of arranged marrages, though, since I think it is interesting and it seems possible that it could work if the children from both families were raised under the same set of principles and they try to live up to those principles.

If I get married, I know I need to marry a man who doesn't heavily depend on his parents, so I can respect him.I know the bible says we are to honor our parents, so it is good to try to defer to them in at least some things if that is possible, but for a man to allow his parents to do all his thinking is not good. He needs to learn to be a leader and part of being a leader is breaking away from his parents

[anna]

Oh yes! I'm very excited about an arranged marriage! And why wouldn't I want my potential spouses to go through my Dad? Even if I were dating, I would look to Dad for approval. Looking to Dad for approval isn't hanging onto childhood to long, is it? :think:

Absolutely! You can't look to your parents for money all the time. Or a car, or a job. You would become lazy then.

No, I don't think so. I love my Dad, and I tell him many many things. When I'm married, I hope I'll e-mail him all the time. He is full of the wisdom I lack, and he's funny, and he's caring. My relationship with him should, in fact, improve my marriage.

.

That is so neat that you have a dad that can screen your potential spouses. It's tough if you are a woman and don't have a wise Christian father to protect you. Men can be very deceptive and manipulative. That's good that you honor your father; that will keep you safer.

That's true. If you don't work you shouldn't eat.

I know you don't need me to tell you that you've got alot going for you, but I wanted to anyway cause it is an encouragment to me. Sounds like you've got a good relationship with your Dad which is good because we learn alot about relationships from our parents. If you can get along with people you were born to live with, it makes getting along with other people easier because you're not carrying alot of baggage. :thumb:

[Mustard Seed]

Oh yes! I'm very excited about an arranged marriage! And why wouldn't I want my potential spouses to go through my Dad? Even if I were dating, I would look to Dad for approval. Looking to Dad for approval isn't hanging onto childhood to long, is it? :think:


It's very different to take a preselected person to your parents as compared to them bringing the preselected to you.


Absolutely! You can't look to your parents for money all the time. Or a car, or a job. You would become lazy then.

Or a wife or husband. Part of the joy of finding the one, is finding the one, not your parents doing it for you. If you wanted their expertise on getting a spouse then why stop there, why not have them come along for the honey moon? I mean they are experienced and you're not.



No, I don't think so. I love my Dad, and I tell him many many things. When I'm married, I hope I'll e-mail him all the time. He is full of the wisdom I lack, and he's funny, and he's caring. My relationship with him should, in fact, improve my marriage.

I'm not saying you cut of your relationship with your dad, I'm saying that despite how wonderfull it is that if you do not learn to cleave to your husband far more than you do to your dad then you will not grow to become one with him. There's a time to cling close to your parents, and then there's a time for a more pronounced seperation. Lest you do not leave your parents and fully cling to your husband.

It's a very important decision. The point you're missing or not trying to see, is that it's all up to me. If I like the man in question, and Dad does not, I can go and marry him anyway.

Then that would not be an aranged marriage of the kind we're talking about. Your confusing me here.

Or lets say Dad doesn't agree, and I see his reasons. They're very good reasons, so I have to make the big choice all on my own, whether I will listen to these reasons, or whether I will run back into arms I deemed worthy. It's not up to Dad, he can't force me to say yes or no.

Then are you really defending arranged (by the parents) marriages? Again, I'm confused as to what you are defending.

Of course, I think loving parents make very good guardian angels. ^_^ It doesn't mean you're not becoming a responsible adult.


I'm not saying you don't seek their advice. I'm simply saying that you don't have them go and give your number to only guys they will alow you to marry, that's what an aranged marriage, as carried out by parents, is generaly viewed.

[ShadowMaid]

It's very different to take a preselected person to your parents as compared to them bringing the preselected to you.

It's not up to my Dad if I decide to marry him or not. I will take his advice, and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean I will cling to my Dad more then my husband.

Or a wife or husband. Part of the joy of finding the one, is finding the one, not your parents doing it for you. If you wanted their expertise on getting a spouse then why stop there, why not have them come along for the honey moon? I mean they are experienced and you're not.

I don't believe there is a special man out there for me (although when I am getting married, I will no doubt, think I have the best and most special). I think there are a number of men out there whom I could marry and live very happily with.

Now you are being ridiculous. I do want my Dad's expertise on a husband. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not saying you cut of your relationship with your dad, I'm saying that despite how wonderfull it is that if you do not learn to cleave to your husband far more than you do to your dad then you will not grow to become one with him. There's a time to cling close to your parents, and then there's a time for a more pronounced seperation. Lest you do not leave your parents and fully cling to your husband.

Oh please. Just because I honor my Dad's advice to actually listen to him, doesn't mean I'm going to trust him more then my husband! That's the whole point of a marriage! Two people (male and female) coming together to start trusting, caring, self-sacrificing family. Just because I listen to him about whether this man is good to marry or not, doesn't mean I'm not thinking on my own. I am thinking on my own, and I'm weighing whether I will go through with this relationship or not. It has nothing to do with Dad in my head. I merely weighed his advice with my willingness.

Then that would not be an aranged marriage of the kind we're talking about. Your confusing me here.

Am I confusing you? Why? Did you honestly think he would force me into a marriage like they did with the royals? Of course not. When it comes down to it, it's up to me, and I need to decide on my own. I need the find that special one, on my own.

Then are you really defending arranged (by the parents) marriages? Again, I'm confused as to what you are defending.

My Dad, sees a guy he thinks might make a good husband. He talks to his parents about it, or he talks to an elder friend of the boys. He talks it over with me. Dad may say, I don't think it'll work, and he give me a reason. I will look at that reason, and agree with him, or I will marry this kid anyway. It's up to me.

So yes, I am. The parents pick out the guy, or he goes to them to arrange a marriage. It goes through my Dad.

I'm not saying you don't seek their advice. I'm simply saying that you don't have them go and give your number to only guys they will allow you to marry, that's what an aranged marriage, as carried out by parents, is generaly viewed.

Yes, and isn't it silly? They can't force me, can they? They can run a background check, and I can agree or disagree, but if I agree, it's not because they said he's a good one, I give you my go. It's because I decided I like him enough to marry him. When it's down to the last thread of the rug, it's all up to me.

Lets say my Dad knows a guy, and my Dad reallllllly likes him. Lets call him Jack. Dad really really really likes Jack. He is pressing me to say yes to Jack. I myself, don't want to marry Jack, and while Dad wants me to, he's not going to drop me in a dress and walk me down the aisle. He's going to shake his head, and he might tell me he thinks I'm making a mistake.

Lets say I didn't want to marry Jack (even though I agreed, he would have been good to me), because I wanted to marry John. John is a bit more care-free, and Dad doesn't think this is a wise choice. So I agree to marry John, and Dad shakes his head, and might tell me I'm making a mistake. But he's not going to stop me, because he can't. He would even walk me downt he aisle to John.

Does this make more sense to you now? It's all up to me. In the end, it doesn't really matter what my Dad says, it's up to me. Of course I will listen to what he has to say, and think about it. But I can say no. I can say yes.

[Mustard Seed]

ShadowMaid,

I think we're not understanding each other. I am all for parental consent on marriage. I'm not arguing that you can't or shouldn't seek your parents advice. I think it's one of the most importat things TO DO. What I am opposing is ONLY deciding between guys that are presented to you by your parents. I do not think that Parents, here and now, should be the ones chosing all the options or getting all the dates lined up. I have no problem with my parents setting me up on blind dates, and I won't exclude a potential wife based on parentel referal. But to limit all contacts with potential mates to being only initiated by ones parents is what I'm opposed to.

[ShadowMaid]

ShadowMaid,

I think we're not understanding each other. I am all for parental consent on marriage. I'm not arguing that you can't or shouldn't seek your parents advice. I think it's one of the most importat things TO DO. What I am opposing is ONLY dec