Where are the TruthSmackers in Fighting the Enemy?

[Freak]

Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)

Hear me now, all you so-called "Christians" who rejoice that your scriptures promise hell for "sinners." NOT ONE OF YOU SERVES A LIVING GOD! I defy your false and spurious worship of the Law in Jesus' name.

You are a brood of vipers, as were your fathers the Pharisees. You take no part in Jesus Christ, and you falsely call Him "Lord" while submitting yourselves to the idols of Pride, Self-Righteousness, and Hatred.

I have no fear of your Jesus Christ, because none of you worship Him anymore.

Justin

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?

[Mr. 5020]

So, you're admitting you are not one of them?

[Caille]

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?



Against you ? Doesn't he need a good :chuckle: once in a while, too ?

[Freak]

So, you're admitting you are not one of them?

I belong to Jesus and have been telling him to repent of his witchcraft or find himself in hell when he dies. You?

[Lovejoy]

He is so obviously goading Christians with his complete lack of reverence, that I had absolutely no interest in giving him the satisfaction. It is the hope of people like him that we will answer the call, screaming for blood and slavering at the jaws, while he laughs at his new found power over our emotional responses. I am a grown up, and have a grown up faith, and people like Justin are young people, children, who are exercising their voices and authority. I don't choose to be a part of his little efforts at Christian teasing. I mean, do you really think that was an assault on Christ? Was Jesus stunned by the power of it, or in the least ways shocked? Or was it an assault on Christians, an effort to push our buttons? The Jesus I know (particularly the Son of Man visions in Daniel and Revelation) does not need my defense, and Christians really do not need to participate in the games child wiccans play. I decline.

[Freak]

He is so obviously goading Christians with his complete lack of reverence, that I had absolutely no interest in giving him the satisfaction. It is the hope of people like him that we will answer the call, screaming for blood and slavering at the jaws, while he laughs at his new found power over our emotional responses. I am a grown up, and have a grown up faith, and people like Justin are young people, children, who are exercising their voices and authority. I don't choose to be a part of his little efforts at Christian teasing. I mean, do you really think that was an assault on Christ? Was Jesus stunned by the power of it, or in the least ways shocked? Or was it an assault on Christians, an effort to push our buttons? The Jesus I know (particularly the Son of Man visions in Daniel and Revelation) does not need my defense, and Christians really do not need to participate in the games child wiccans play. I decline.
So let him blaspheme or do we warn him of his impending doom in hell?

[Lovejoy]

So let him blaspheme or do we warn him of his impending doom in hell?
Warn, absolutely! Give him every benefit of the doubt, and assume that he truly does not know better. However, by the time he gets to being like he is (charming and educated to sway opinion, and utterly without interest in hearing the Gospel) we can't be sucked into the vortex of the game that he plays. And certainly not on his terms.

[Emo]

So let him blaspheme or do we warn him of his impending doom in hell?

If he keeps it up, he'll of course, go to hell. :e4e:

He has been told by numerous folks that he's nuts.

Thanks for the concern anyway Freak.

[Knight]

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?I think Freak raises a good point. Sometimes you get numb to all the hell-bound souls that wander into TOL.

I am glad Freak reminded me that although TOL is a place for entertainment and fellowship its main goal is to preach the gospel.

Thanks Freak. :up:

[Poly]

Warn, absolutely! Give him every benefit of the doubt, and assume that he truly does not know better. However, by the time he gets to being like he is (charming and educated to sway opinion, and utterly without interest in hearing the Gospel) we can't be sucked into the vortex of the game that he plays. And certainly not on his terms.

:up:

[Knight]

Warn, absolutely! Give him every benefit of the doubt, and assume that he truly does not know better. However, by the time he gets to being like he is (charming and educated to sway opinion, and utterly without interest in hearing the Gospel) we can't be sucked into the vortex of the game that he plays. And certainly not on his terms.A good point as well.

[Frank Ernest]

Who's to defend the Lord Jesus the Christ? See my avatar, read Revelation quote, and you have my answer.

Now, if anyone thinks that any Christian must jump up and engage in apologetic bantering anytime and everytime some ignorant dolt (i.e., :troll: ) decides to yank the chain, think again.

[Zakath]

Who's to defend the Lord Jesus the Christ? See my avatar, read Revelation quote, and you have my answer.Frankie, I didn't think I'd ever post this on one of your posts, but this part is "Well said." :thumb:

(I checked with Gerald and, yes, the thermostat for the lake of fire is broken again...) ;)

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?
Jay,

Assuming that an omnipotent entity would need someone like Jay Bartlett, or any other finite being, to defend him sounds like the presumed defender is full of their own self-importance.

:rolleyes:

In other words, if what you claim about your deity is true, then your alleged creator of the universe doesn't need your help, Jay. Some people might, but your deity certainly doesn't.

[beanieboy]

Who's to defend the Lord Jesus the Christ? See my avatar, read Revelation quote, and you have my answer.
Now, if anyone thinks that any Christian must jump up and engage in apologetic bantering anytime and everytime some ignorant dolt (i.e., :troll: ) decides to yank the chain, think again.

Isn't that what "Truthsmacking" is?

Litte Debbie goes to school, goes up to Jenny, and says, "You're a skank! Well, y'are! Y'ARE! You need to repent before you go to hell!!!" Then she walks up to Steve and says, "You are a fornicator! You make me vomit! You need to repent before you go to hell!!!" Then she walks up to Rachel and says, "You're a Jew! You need to stop rejecting Jesus, before you go to hell!!!" Then she sees a Muslim girl crying. Her mother has died. Debbie says, "well, your mom is being tortured in hell for rejecting Jesus Christ, and worshipping a false God. Mohammed isn't going to help her now, I tell you what! But it's not too late for you!"

Then she goes home and thinks she's done the work of God.

The truth is, all little Debbie can do is bring fear and shame. Is that what Christianity is about? Is that the Good News? That we are all disgusting piles of filth, and that only Jesus can mask that from God?

The world is full of people that will call you a loser, a waste of space, that you have no reason to live, a pile of filth, simply because it's fun to be cruel, and sometimes, the wolves just put on sheeps clothing and continue to be cruel.

Justin was calling people on something, and they were offended, just like the Pharisees were offended at what Jesus said, Didn't Jesus know that they were the heads of the temple???? They were the teachers and studiers of the law!!! They were better than the other people!!!!

Fear and Shame. "Good News"?

[Aimiel]

Well, to us The Word of God is life. Not because we were good (or are good now, for that matter; since we are not yet perfect, only forgiven) but we were sinners, before we got saved. The sinner who hears and repents gains eternal life from The Word of God. The one who rejects truth gets shame and a blot. You have reason to be afraid of God, and of judgement. Continue to live in fear, if that is your desire. God offers hope, He offers salvation, while you live. It will not always be so. He will offer free redemption to you while you draw breath. After that, it will be too late to repent and recant your words. God knows where to draw the line. He knows when your heart will stop. He knows how to get His Truth across to you. There will not stand one single soul before Him saying, "I didn't get a chance," because He offers salvation to all.

[Zakath]

...Fear and Shame. "Good News"?In my experience, the "good news" seems to be the fact that the speaker is exempted from the alleged penalties of sin, not that anyone they dislike happens to be eligible... it's similiar to why "Good Friday" is good...

[Chileice]

In my experience, the "good news" seems to be the fact that the speaker is exempted from the alleged penalties of sin, not that anyone they dislike happens to be eligible... it's similiar to why "Good Friday" is good...

I think Paul had some great advice for Timothy that too few of us heed... myself included. It is so easy to get wrapped up in the self-importance of our own words. Yes, we need to take our faith seriously, but this "truth-smacker" garbage is the opposite of wahat seems to be taught in the New Testament. It is like flailing around with a machete in both hands while having a log in both eyes... pretty dangerous stuff.

If we spent more time worrying whether we were unashamed workmen rather than whether the other guy had anything to be ashamed about, those very same people would be more likely to listen since actions really do speak louder than words.

A Workman Approved by God
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

It is clear that we should contend for the faith but wasting inordinate amounts of time and breath on people who really don't care (Hey Justin said he went to a Christian College) is a waste of time. He has made a decision that I believe he will one day regret, but "smacking" him is extremely unlikely to bring him back to the Lord, wouldn't you agree, Zak? By the way, I keep praying for that unequivical evidence you are looking for. Don't forget to keep the eyes of your heart open. Who knows maybe 05-05-05 will be the day! But if not tomorrow... some day. Just let us know when it happens.

[Zakath]

I think Paul had some great advice for Timothy that too few of us heed... myself included. It is so easy to get wrapped up in the self-importance of our own words. Yes, we need to take our faith seriously, but this "truth-smacker" garbage is the opposite of wahat seems to be taught in the New Testament. It is like flailing around with a machete in both hands while having a log in both eyes... pretty dangerous stuff.

If we spent more time worrying whether we were unashamed workmen rather than whether the other guy had anything to be ashamed about, those very same people would be more likely to listen since actions really do speak louder than words.It's been said by some old wise Christians of my acquaintance that if more people lived their religion instead of just talking about it, it would be much easier to convert the lost. I think you're onto something here... ;)
It is clear that we should contend for the faith but wasting inordinate amounts of time and breath on people who really don't care (Hey Justin said he went to a Christian College) is a waste of time. He has made a decision that I believe he will one day regret, but "smacking" him is extremely unlikely to bring him back to the Lord, wouldn't you agree, Zak? By the way, I keep praying for that unequivical evidence you are looking for. Don't forget to keep the eyes of your heart open. Who knows maybe 05-05-05 will be the day! But if not tomorrow... some day. Just let us know when it happens.Smacking appears to be merely an excuse to indulge one's own sense of superiority at the expense of someone who you presuppose will not convert. If the smacker happens to be right, that reinforces their behavior and they're likely to do it again. Always, of course, on the lookout for those who are least likely to convert as the targets of their efforts. :rolleyes:

BTW, if your prayers ever get answered, I will definitely cruise by TOL. It would be interesting, to say the least. ;)

[beanieboy]

As for me, I would say that you pray that I don't convert, because if I do, what I call you on now I will call you on 10 times more.

[Caille]

Who's to defend the Lord Jesus the Christ? See my avatar, read Revelation quote, and you have my answer.

Now, if anyone thinks that any Christian must jump up and engage in apologetic bantering anytime and everytime some ignorant dolt (i.e., :troll: ) decides to yank the chain, think again.



I can't believe it ! I gave FrankE good rep :noway:




but where would Freak be if he couldn't stir the pot like this ?

[Lighthouse]

Is that what Christianity is about? Is that the Good News? That we are all disgusting piles of filth, and that only Jesus can mask that from God?
Pretty much.

[Granite]

Isn't that what "Truthsmacking" is?

Litte Debbie goes to school, goes up to Jenny, and says, "You're a skank! Well, y'are! Y'ARE! You need to repent before you go to hell!!!" Then she walks up to Steve and says, "You are a fornicator! You make me vomit! You need to repent before you go to hell!!!" Then she walks up to Rachel and says, "You're a Jew! You need to stop rejecting Jesus, before you go to hell!!!" Then she sees a Muslim girl crying. Her mother has died. Debbie says, "well, your mom is being tortured in hell for rejecting Jesus Christ, and worshipping a false God. Mohammed isn't going to help her now, I tell you what! But it's not too late for you!"

Then she goes home and thinks she's done the work of God.

The truth is, all little Debbie can do is bring fear and shame. Is that what Christianity is about? Is that the Good News? That we are all disgusting piles of filth, and that only Jesus can mask that from God?

The world is full of people that will call you a loser, a waste of space, that you have no reason to live, a pile of filth, simply because it's fun to be cruel, and sometimes, the wolves just put on sheeps clothing and continue to be cruel.

Justin was calling people on something, and they were offended, just like the Pharisees were offended at what Jesus said, Didn't Jesus know that they were the heads of the temple???? They were the teachers and studiers of the law!!! They were better than the other people!!!!

Fear and Shame. "Good News"?

Good stuff, bean, like usual.:thumb:

[DEVO]

As for me, I would say that you pray that I don't convert, because if I do, what I call you on now I will call you on 10 times more.
Yea... were all shakin' in our boots over you. :rolleyes: :flamer:

[Poly]

Yea... were all shakin' in our boots over you. :rolleyes: :flamer:

Ain't no smack like the DEVO smack!!

[Knight]

Smacking appears to be merely an excuse to indulge one's own sense of superiority at the expense of someone who you presuppose will not convert.Just to set the record straight "smacking" is the ability to create a artful, clever, brief, possibly humorous response that delivers truth and rebuts falsehood all while entertaining the reader.

I think I will make a seperate thread with this explanation.

[Balder]

The responses to Justin's comments are interesting. I understood Justin to be criticizing people here for being hateful and self-righteous, and for worshipping a hateful "god of their own making," rather than criticizing Jesus himself. If you read closely, he is saying that he believes that Jesus is better than the "god" that comes across in the rhetoric, attitude, ideation, and overall demeanor of many people here.

Of course, he doesn't know the real Jesus. Probably like me, he grew up in a Christian home in which he heard stories and sermons about Jesus that gave him the impression that Jesus was kind, loving, gentle, non-violent, and so on, and he didn't get to know the real Jesus of the Bible. Like me, he probably grew up with popular, prevalent images of Jesus that inspired love and respect, perhaps, but which were ultimately wrong. Because the real Jesus would have stoned that adulterous woman himself if it weren't for the Roman law over his head and the technicality of the missing male adulterer. The real Jesus would have no problem at all with executing every homosexual, adulterer, and disobedient child that ever disgraced this earth, and in fact would stand fully behind any future Christian government that set out to do so. The real Jesus is totally fine with genocide, if it will help the spread of his father's kingdom on earth, as it did in the old days. And of course, the real Jesus in fact will come again in violence and bloody judgment, wiping out huge numbers of people, and tossing huge piles of "human trash" into the fire when the time (at last!) is ripe.

Peace,
Balder

[Caledvwlch]

Nice.

[Lighthouse]

Yea... were all shakin' in our boots over you. :rolleyes: :flamer:
There you are!

[Poly]

Nice.

Hey hey hey!!!

There's no reason for foul language here!!

[Zakath]

Just to set the record straight "smacking" is the ability to create a artful, clever, brief, possibly humorous response that delivers truth and rebuts falsehood all while entertaining the reader.
Too bad more of the posters here can't quite get the knack... :nono:

[Granite]

Hey hey hey!!!

There's no reason for foul language here!!

:darwinsm:

[Justin (Wiccan)]

He is so obviously goading Christians with his complete lack of reverence, that I had absolutely no interest in giving him the satisfaction.

Lovejoy, you could not be incorrect. I am not goading Christians, but those who falsely claim the name.

Justin

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?

Does Jesus need to be defended? Did I say anything against Jesus Christ ... or did I deride the actions of hypocrites?

Even the title of the thread shows the depths of your error. "Where are the TruthSmackers in Fighting the Enemy?" Fighting the "enemy?" First and foremost, if you consider me an evil man, you are not even to resist me--and if I am your enemy, you are to bless me and pray for me.

Jay, I think you've either been reading the wrong Bible, or perhaps you could benefit from some remedial reading courses.

Justin

[Lighthouse]

Loks like Justin isn't as versed in the Bible as was previously thought.

Of course, if that's what he really thinks is the way Christianity is supposed to be, then why did he leave it?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Loks like Justin isn't as versed in the Bible as was previously thought.

So point me out any errors in my statements.

Of course, if that's what he really thinks is the way Christianity is supposed to be, then why did he leave it?

For the same reason that Elijah did not speak to the earthquake, the fire, or the great wind.

Justin

[Lighthouse]

The errors are not in your statements, but rather your perceptions. And the fact that you use one section, while ignoring another. The most blessing one can do for you is to point you to your need for Christ. Of course, if you don't care, then the smart thing is to let you remain in ignorance.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

The errors are not in your statements, but rather your perceptions.

Such errors can be illustrated by way of examples, Have you any?

And the fact that you use one section, while ignoring another.

That's a contextual error. Again, as I said, if I'm making any, point them out.

The most blessing one can do for you is to point you to your need for Christ. Of course, if you don't care, then the smart thing is to let you remain in ignorance.

Lighthouse, let me point out an "error in perception" on your part. If you think that "if you don't care," is anywhere close to an accurate statement, then you are in abject ignorance of the most basic facts of who I am.

Justin

[Freak]

First and foremost, if you consider me an evil man, you are not even to resist me--and if I am your enemy, you are to bless me and pray for me.


Justin I do bless you--by sharing you the truth--that you will die in your sins if you reject Jesus. Witchcraft will keep you from knowing God. And I do pray for you.

Next.

[Lighthouse]

:bang:
Did I say that you didn't care?! No! Get a clue! Grow a brain! The word "if" is a clause, moron! Why does anyone put up with you?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I do bless you--by sharing you the truth--that you will die in your sins if you reject Jesus. Witchcraft will keep you from knowing God. And I do pray for you.

And pride will keep you from knowing God. The pride that lies to you and tells you "I can condemn another because I have been forgiven and they have not." The pride that whispers in your ear and says "I am someone important, because God callled me to a special ministry."

The pride that causes you to say "God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." See, Jay, that's what calling gays "faggots" is all about--pride.

As for me, Jay, I'm not concerned if you hate me. I'm not concerned if you think you are better than me. The one and only thing I am concerned about is that if you are going to talk the talk of "Jesus is Lord," that you will also walk the walk, and make Him the Lord of your life ... including of your pride.

I'm not even concerned about what you think about Wiccans. To place it in your terms, I have only one Judge. And you are not He.

Justin

[Justin (Wiccan)]

:bang:
Did I say that you didn't care?! No! Get a clue! Grow a brain! The word "if" is a clause, moron!

The word "if" is most certainly not a "clause," though it does make the phrase behind it a conditional clause.

Why does anyone put up with you?

Lighthouse, the only people who ever have problems with me are people who want to excuse their own wrong-doing.

Justin

[Freak]

As for me, Jay, I'm not concerned if you hate me. Are you living in drug dazed haze? I never said I hated you. My wife and I love and care for you.

I'm not concerned if you think you are better than me. I am just like you--a human needing God--though I am now saved by the goodness and love of Jesus.
I'm not even concerned about what you think about Wiccans. To place it in your terms, I have only one Judge. And you are not He.

Justin
You should be concerned what God thinks:

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD...

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Are you living in drug dazed haze?

Actually, I am a recovering drug addict.

I never said I hated you. My wife and I love and care for you.

Oh, I know you never said it. I'm quite aware of that.

I am just like you--a human needing God--though I am now saved by the goodness and love of Jesus.

Yet you can, with those same fingers, call homosexuals names intended to drive them away from the Gospel Message that you claim to be spreading? :think:

You should be concerned what God thinks:

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD...

As should you ... for if you read the above passage, it's saying "rebellion is just as bad as witchcraft, and stubbornness is just as bad as iniquity and idolatry." Your refusal to abide by passages such as Rom 2:1-4 is rebellion. Your continued excuse-making demonstrates your stubbornness.

Justin

[Balder]

Someone gave me bad rep points and commented that I need psychotherapy for my post on this thread, but didn't leave an initial or a name. Would you care to address me in the open and non-anonymously?

[Freak]

Actually, I am a recovering drug addict. Okay.

Yet you can, with those same fingers, call homosexuals names intended to drive them away from the Gospel Message that you claim to be spreading? :think: I have seen homosexuals change through the power of Jesus. Sometimes we sinners need to be jolted!
for if you read the above passage, it's saying "rebellion is just as bad as witchcraft, and stubbornness is just as bad as iniquity and idolatry."
Justin As stated, witchcraft is wrong, evil, sin!

[Justin (Wiccan)]

As stated, witchcraft is wrong, evil, sin!

So is your false and pride-centered notion that it is "Christlike" to call a homosexual a "faggot."

Justin

[Freak]

So is your false and pride-centered notion that it is "Christlike" to call a homosexual a "faggot."

Justin
The apostle Paul called false teachers dogs. Was he prideful? Or did he love people and wanted them to repent?

[Lighthouse]

The word "if" is most certainly not a "clause," though it does make the phrase behind it a conditional clause.
Either way, I never said you didn't care.


Lighthouse, the only people who ever have problems with me are people who want to excuse their own wrong-doing.

Justin
:rolleyes:

You're a pathetic troll. I argue for what the Bible says, and you take it as a personal attack, and then attack me for attacking you, when I did not such thing. You don't care about the truth. You just want to label Christians as hypocrites, and use us as an excuse to not follow Jesus, even though you say we are completely contradictory to Him. That's one of the most pathetic cop-outs I have ever heard from anyone.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

The apostle Paul called false teachers dogs. Was he prideful? Or did he love people and wanted them to repent?

Paul was not speaking to the false teachers, but to those who might be swayed by them. He warned the Phillipians in the strongest possible terms--not because he wanted the false teachers to "repent," for the letter is not addressed to them, but because he wanted to Phillipians to avoid them.

Was Paul prideful? Well, he adamantly refused to take a second chance on John Mark--indeed, the contention over that was so strong as to separate Paul and Barnabas for a while.

Nonetheless, I am not speaking to Paul, or of Peter ... I am speaking to you, Jay, and to Lighthouse, and this is my question. How is calling homosexuals "faggots" in obedience to Rom 2:1-4?

Justin

[Justin (Wiccan)]

You don't care about the truth. You just want to label Christians as hypocrites, and use us as an excuse to not follow Jesus, even though you say we are completely contradictory to Him. That's one of the most pathetic cop-outs I have ever heard from anyone.

That is a lie on your part. My leaving the Christian church had nothing to do with you or Jay, nor even with other Christians.

I do not wish to label Christians as hypocrites: the only people who deserve that label (in this specific conversation) are you and Jay, for you say "Obey God," yet refuse to do what you say.

Justin

[Lighthouse]

Show how I have not obeyed God. Go ahead.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Show how I have not obeyed God. Go ahead.

One example of the actual scriptures that you have disobeyed are:
Rom 2:1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

You, who pass judgement on homosexuals for "breaking the law," are condemning yourself, because you also break the law.

Are you not sinners? Whether or not you are saved, have you not "fallen short of the grace of God," each and every one of you? According to your scriptures, God is not concerned over which part of the Law is broken, only that there has been a breach. If a person commits a homosexual act, they have broken the law. If a person tells a little white lie against their neighbor, they have broken the law.

So what should be your treatment of "sinners?"

Jude 22-23
22 Be merciful to those who doubt;
23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Where is your mercy mixed with fear?

Justin

[Freak]

Paul was not speaking to the false teachers, Whom did he call dogs? Answer the question and was he righteous for doing so?

Nonetheless, I am not speaking to Paul, or of Peter ... I am speaking to you, Jay, and to Lighthouse, and this is my question. How is calling homosexuals "faggots" in obedience to Rom 2:1-4?

JustinAre you a homosexual, a faggot, a queer?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Whom did he call dogs? Answer the question and was he righteous for doing so?

You have ignored many of my questions. I shall return the favor.

Are you a homosexual, a faggot, a queer?

What would it matter to you?

Justin

[SOTK]

Where are the Christians who will defend the Lord Jesus?

Right here! :up:

[Freak]

What would it matter to you?

JustinNot only are you a witch but a homosexual. Both deserve the death penalty.

My friend, you need to turn to Jesus Christ, who is God, before dying and ending up in hell.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Not only are you a witch but a homosexual.

On what basis do you say this?

Justin

[Lighthouse]

One example of the actual scriptures that you have disobeyed are:
Rom 2:1 "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

You, who pass judgement on homosexuals for "breaking the law," are condemning yourself, because you also break the law.
You're retarded, aren't you?

I do not "pass judgment" on homosexuals for "breaking the law." And, beside, God has already judged them, and they have condemned themselves for not believing on God's Son.

Also, I may have broken the law, but I am no longer under the law, and can therefore no longer break it. Not only am I currently not a lawbreaker, I have enver been a homosexual. So I am not doing the "same things" homos are.

Are you not sinners? Whether or not you are saved, have you not "fallen short of the grace of God," each and every one of you? According to your scriptures, God is not concerned over which part of the Law is broken, only that there has been a breach. If a person commits a homosexual act, they have broken the law. If a person tells a little white lie against their neighbor, they have broken the law.
I have fallen short of the glory of God, but I have been sanctified and justified by faith in Him. And I am no longer a sinner, for I have been freed from sin, by the blood of Jesus Christ!

So what should be your treatment of "sinners?"

Jude 22-23
22 Be merciful to those who doubt;
23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Where is your mercy mixed with fear?

Justin
You don't doubt. You outright deny. That's completely a different matter.

"...hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.":think:

[Lighthouse]

On what basis do you say this?

Justin
James 2:10:duh:

:rolleyes:

You want to use it against us, be prepared to have it used against you. Unless you want to be a hypocrite.:think:

[Justin (Wiccan)]

James 2:10:duh:

:rolleyes:

You want to use it against us, be prepared to have it used against you. Unless you want to be a hypocrite.:think:

And James 2:10 tells you I am a homosexual?

[Lighthouse]

:doh:

No! But the way you present it, wanting it to mean what you think it means, then it would mean that you are guilty of homosexuality. Wouldn't it?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

You're retarded, aren't you?

As I said to Doc, the only thing that Ad Hominem rmarks prove is just how close people are to running out of things to say.

I do not "pass judgment" on homosexuals for "breaking the law." And, beside, God has already judged them, and they have condemned themselves for not believing on God's Son.

You condemn homosexuals for acting in such a manner--OK, that's at least in accord with your scripture. Your use of hateful speech is not, however, in accord with Col 4:6.

Also, I may have broken the law, but I am no longer under the law, and can therefore no longer break it.

Excuse me? James certainly says it is still possible to sin, and uses the Law to illustrate it. You are no longer under the condemnation of the Law ... but that does nothing for how you are supposed to live.

That is, unless you're disagreeing with your friend Bob Enyart...?

And I am no longer a sinner, for I have been freed from sin, by the blood of Jesus Christ!

If Christians were no longer sinners, then Paul would not have called himself the "chief" sinner.

Justin

[Justin (Wiccan)]

:doh:

No! But the way you present it, wanting it to mean what you think it means, then it would mean that you are guilty of homosexuality. Wouldn't it?

No. It would mean solely and simply that I am a lawbreaker. :D

Justin

[Lighthouse]

As I said to Doc, the only thing that Ad Hominem rmarks prove is just how close people are to running out of things to say.
Well, seeing as how I had more to say in the rest of my post, you just made yourself out ot be a fool.


You condemn homosexuals for acting in such a manner--OK, that's at least in accord with your scripture. Your use of hateful speech is not, however, in accord with Col 4:6.
Hateful speech? What hateful speech?


Excuse me? James certainly says it is still possible to sin, and uses the Law to illustrate it. You are no longer under the condemnation of the Law ... but that does nothing for how you are supposed to live.

That is, unless you're disagreeing with your friend Bob Enyart...?
1] I've met Bo once. I'd hardly say that we were friends.
2] Have you read 1 John 3:1-10? How about Romans 7:20? Sin is in the flesh, and the flesh is not redeemed. That which is redeemed does not sin.:nono:


If Christians were no longer sinners, then Paul would not have called himself the "chief" sinner.

Justin
See above.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Well, seeing as how I had more to say in the rest of my post, you just made yourself out ot be a fool.

Again with the ad hominems?

Hateful speech? What hateful speech?

Calling a homosexual a homosexual is clinically accurate, and allows you to tell them that their actions are condemned by scripture. Calling a homosexual a faggot is hateful speech, in that it is a word that only causes pain and rejection of the speaker, because it indicates that the speaker has already rejected the listener.

1] I've met Bo once. I'd hardly say that we were friends.

For someone who does not claim friendship, you sure agree with a lot of his teachings....

2] Have you read 1 John 3:1-10? How about Romans 7:20? Sin is in the flesh, and the flesh is not redeemed. That which is redeemed does not sin.:nono:

So in other words, your flesh is still capable of sin, correct?

Justin

[Lighthouse]

Again with the ad hominems?
Paraphrase: "If you don't want to be treated like a foll, don't act like one."


Calling a homosexual a homosexual is clinically accurate, and allows you to tell them that their actions are condemned by scripture. Calling a homosexual a faggot is hateful speech, in that it is a word that only causes pain and rejection of the speaker, because it indicates that the speaker has already rejected the listener.
I reserve that word for people who refuse to listen. People who are defiant, and proud of their sin.


For someone who does not claim friendship, you sure agree with a lot of his teachings....
And? I've read a couple of his books, and I agree with things he believes. But he didn't make any of them up. In fact, one of the things I agree with him on was something I started thinking about before I even knew who Bob was.


So in other words, your flesh is still capable of sin, correct?
Yeah. So?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Paraphrase: "If you don't want to be treated like a foll, don't act like one."

Accurate paraphrase: "If someone disagrees with Lighthouse, he calls them names like "idiot" and "troll." ;)

I reserve that word for people who refuse to listen. People who are defiant, and proud of their sin.

Lighthouse, there is a certain logic in that ... and I don't argue that this logic makes sense at first glance, or to the "worldly." My whole point is that this "logic" is not consistant with Biblical principles--indeed, if I were to couch my argument in Christian terms, I would say that this logic is of the flesh, and of the world.

And? I've read a couple of his books, and I agree with things he believes. But he didn't make any of them up. In fact, one of the things I agree with him on was something I started thinking about before I even knew who Bob was.

My purpose in calling Bob Enyart your friend was to illustrate the similarity of ideas, not to state that you two are close chums or anything of the sort.

So in other words, your flesh is still capable of sin, correct?
Yeah. So?

Lighthouse, it is my assertion--quite a serious assertion, one that leaves behind the back-and-forth jabs we've been amusing ourselves with--that such behavior as calling homosexuals "faggots" is contrary to your scriptures. Such behavior is contrary to Christian principles ... even if the Bible does not explicitly cover the use of that word.

If you want to win homosexuals to Christ, I feel that you will find a much better example in Paul's decision to be "all things to all men." That certainly does not mean that you have to approve of homosexuality if you want to win homosexuals to Christ ... but you do have to speak to them as though they were people with whom you want to have an amicable relationship, not one that is defined by the names that each calls the other.

It's the same with Wicca. I am a member of the Ex-Witch.org Forums, a Christian forum dedicated to evangelizing Wiccans, Pagans, and Occultists, and providing support for new Christians coming out of these groups. They do not go around screaming that Wiccans are worthy of death--though they do note that Wicca is condemned by the Scriptures, and they clearly state that in their beliefs unrepentant Wiccans will wind up in hell. They do not go around calling Wiccans nasty names--indeed, while not compromising their witness, they have repeatedly defended me and other Wiccans from folks who wanted to do nothing but call names.

I am saying this, Lighthouse: calling homosexuals "faggots" is hiding your lamp under the bushel of animosity. It is a violation of Col 4:6, and is therefore direct disobedience to your scriptures, but it is also an act that grossly impairs your witness. A term like that is the end of any constructive conversation with a homosexual--and if you cannot converse with him, then you cannot speak of Christ to him.

Justin

[Lighthouse]

Accurate paraphrase: "If someone disagrees with Lighthouse, he calls them names like "idiot" and "troll." ;)
I never called you a troll. I had a typo on the word "fool."


Lighthouse, there is a certain logic in that ... and I don't argue that this logic makes sense at first glance, or to the "worldly." My whole point is that this "logic" is not consistant with Biblical principles--indeed, if I were to couch my argument in Christian terms, I would say that this logic is of the flesh, and of the world.
What would you know about Christianity? You left it, because you did not agree with it. And you did not agree, because you did not understand it.


My purpose in calling Bob Enyart your friend was to illustrate the similarity of ideas, not to state that you two are close chums or anything of the sort.
And what ideas would these be?

Yes, I do respect Bob. Very much. I do not want to misrepresent how I feel about him. But I will say that when I joined TOL my feelings towards Bob were much different. You can see for yourself if you search my posts.


Lighthouse, it is my assertion--quite a serious assertion, one that leaves behind the back-and-forth jabs we've been amusing ourselves with--that such behavior as calling homosexuals "faggots" is contrary to your scriptures. Such behavior is contrary to Christian principles ... even if the Bible does not explicitly cover the use of that word.

If you want to win homosexuals to Christ, I feel that you will find a much better example in Paul's decision to be "all things to all men." That certainly does not mean that you have to approve of homosexuality if you want to win homosexuals to Christ ... but you do have to speak to them as though they were people with whom you want to have an amicable relationship, not one that is defined by the names that each calls the other.

It's the same with Wicca. I am a member of the Ex-Witch.org Forums, a Christian forum dedicated to evangelizing Wiccans, Pagans, and Occultists, and providing support for new Christians coming out of these groups. They do not go around screaming that Wiccans are worthy of death--though they do note that Wicca is condemned by the Scriptures, and they clearly state that in their beliefs unrepentant Wiccans will wind up in hell. They do not go around calling Wiccans nasty names--indeed, while not compromising their witness, they have repeatedly defended me and other Wiccans from folks who wanted to do nothing but call names.

I am saying this, Lighthouse: calling homosexuals "faggots" is hiding your lamp under the bushel of animosity. It is a violation of Col 4:6, and is therefore direct disobedience to your scriptures, but it is also an act that grossly impairs your witness. A term like that is the end of any constructive conversation with a homosexual--and if you cannot converse with him, then you cannot speak of Christ to him.

Justin
Then Jesus was going against Colossians 4:6 when He called people names. When he used spiteful terms, such as; hypocrite, brood of vipers, sons of hell, children of Satan, satan, dog, etc., etc.

But, as we all know, Jesus did not contradict such ideas. For, as you can plainly see above, His speech was quite seasoned with salt.;)

So, if someone wants to spit in the face of God, with no regard for the blood shed on the cross, then they are what they are. And no amount of being nice is going to change a damn thing. So the only thing left is to let them know that they have chosen, and let them be the disgusting wickedness that they are.

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I never called you a troll. I had a typo on the word "fool."

:chuckle: To tell the truth, I didn't know which word you wanted there, but heck, "typos happen."

What would you know about Christianity? You left it, because you did not agree with it. And you did not agree, because you did not understand it.

Lighthouse ... that's a discussion for a different time. Let us simply say that you might be surprised at what I do and do not understand about Christianity.

So, if someone wants to spit in the face of God, with no regard for the blood shed on the cross, then they are what they are. And no amount of being nice is going to change a damn thing. So the only thing left is to let them know that they have chosen, and let them be the disgusting wickedness that they are.

Then we disagree ... and that disagreement is quite fundamental.

However, there will be much we agree on, and much we disagree on. Yes, I feel you are acting contrary to your scriptures, and I know you are acting contrary to my understanding of right and wrong ... but I have made my opinions clear, as have you.

However, I do not "agree to disagree," and I reserve the right to bring this topic up again (as, I assume, you do). ;)

Justin

[avatar382]

Highway to Hell
----------------------------------------------
Living easy, living free
Season ticket on a one-way ride
Asking nothing, leave me be
Taking everything in my stride
Don't need reason, don't need rhyme
Ain't nothing I would rather do
Going down, party time
My friends are gonna be there too

I'm on the highway to hell

No stop signs, speed limit
Nobody's gonna slow me down
Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Nobody's gonna mess me round
Hey Satan, payin' my dues
Playing in a rocking band
Hey Momma, look at me
I'm on my way to the promised land

I'm on the highway to hell
(Don't stop me)

And I'm going down, all the way down
I'm on the highway to hell

:singer: :drum: :guitar: :guitar:

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Highway to Hell

I never was much of an AC/DC fan. Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull are more my style.

Justin

[Caille]

I never was much of an AC/DC fan. Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull are more my style.

Justin



Yeah - Floyd rules !

Pre or post Sid ?

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Yeah - Floyd rules !

Pre or post Sid ?

Definitely post Sid, but both with and without Waters.

Justin

[Lighthouse]

:chuckle: To tell the truth, I didn't know which word you wanted there, but heck, "typos happen."
It was supposed to be the word "fool."


Lighthouse ... that's a discussion for a different time. Let us simply say that you might be surprised at what I do and do not understand about Christianity.
I believe that you know what you were taught, when you were going to church.


Then we disagree ... and that disagreement is quite fundamental.

However, there will be much we agree on, and much we disagree on. Yes, I feel you are acting contrary to your scriptures, and I know you are acting contrary to my understanding of right and wrong ... but I have made my opinions clear, as have you.

However, I do not "agree to disagree," and I reserve the right to bring this topic up again (as, I assume, you do). ;)

Justin
I agree that I am acting contrary to what you think Scripture states. And you're idea of rigth and wrong aer precisely that, youridea.

As far as the last statement, I say, "quite."

[Agape4Robin]

Does being a truthsmacker mean that you have to be rude or abrasive?

[Caledvwlch]

Does being a truthsmacker mean that you have to be rude or abrasive?
I think it means you have to be a Christian version of the Rock, and layeth the smacketh down. Or perhaps like Austin. Drive right into the Smackdown hotel, check into room 316, and burn that sum***** to the ground!

[Agape4Robin]

I think it means you have to be a Christian version of the Rock, and layeth the smacketh down. Or perhaps like Austin. Drive right into the Smackdown hotel, check into room 316, and burn that sum***** to the ground!
Oh yeah....I can smell it! :think: :chuckle:

[Caledvwlch]

Oh yeah....I can smell it! :think: :chuckle:
Closing in on 1000, are we?

[Agape4Robin]

Closing in on 1000, are we?
Working on it! :)
I want a green star! I want to be part of "the club"!!!! :thumb:

[Caledvwlch]

Working on it! :)
I want a green star! I want to be part of "the club"!!!! :thumb:
Eh. It's ok. I like the daily massages but the wine could be better.

[Agape4Robin]

Eh. It's ok. I like the daily massages but the wine could be better.
I"m in it for the status! :chuckle:

[Lovejoy]

I"m in it for the status! :chuckle:
To be honest, we are just the "goffers" for the Purple Star elitists. I, personally, am responsible for cleaning Billybob's truck.

[Lighthouse]

Does being a truthsmacker mean that you have to be rude or abrasive?
Sometimes.

[Lighthouse]

To be honest, we are just the "goffers" for the Purple Star elitists. I, personally, am responsible for cleaning Billybob's truck.
BillyBob and I have discussed trading our gofers. So you can wash my car, you know, to give you a break.:chuckle:

[Lovejoy]

BillyBob and I have discussed trading our gofers. So you can wash my car, you know, to give you a break.:chuckle:
Good, because I think Billybob actually aims his truck at small animals.

[Lighthouse]

Apparently you didn't get the joke.

[Lovejoy]

Apparently you didn't get the joke.
I think I got it, I just assumed your car is cleaner than his truck, you know.

[SOTK]

Does being a truthsmacker mean that you have to be rude or abrasive?

I think sometimes it means we can come off like that, yeah, however, I try not to be rude and abrasive as much as I can. :)

[Lighthouse]

I think I got it, I just assumed your car is cleaner than his truck, you know.
Nope. You didn't get it.

[Agape4Robin]

Wash a car? A truck?!
Manual labor!!!!???? :shut:

I might break a nail! :lucy:

[Lovejoy]

Nope. You didn't get it.
I hate it when that happens.

[Lighthouse]

I don't have a car.

[Lovejoy]

I don't have a car.
What?! I had no idea, but that would have been funny as heck if I had. Sorry. But hey, my ingnorance is good for a laugh, yeah?

[Lighthouse]

Always.;)

[Rafael Almeida]

Ahh, so that's why Freak was angry with Agape4Robin because she didn't agree with him in this issue.

[fool]

yup