Should women go to college?

[anna]

Hi everyone,

This question is for Lucky, but other Christians are welcome to post as well.

I've often wondered about my role as a woman in society. I know the scripture says women are helpmates and I have also learned in other books and from my own experienes that women are responders while men are the ones who initiate.

If any man or woman is to fulfill the basic roles that God had intended them to fill, it is only reasonable to say that education is (in itself) necessary to draw out the talents or gifts that God has given to each of us so that each person can serve others more effectively.

At this point I see no problem in women going to college since college would give some opportunity to learn some basic learning tools such as reading, writing, and mathematics. Of course as a public school student going to a public university, I am fully aware of the amount of bull (to be frank) that students have to learn in order to gain access to some classes that could be useful for basic skills. So I know that colleges don't really educate people but rather brainwash them, but I know that there is at least some things that could possibly be beneficial.

Just so you know. I am currently a Computer Science Major who is seriously thinking of changing her major, but can't see any possible alternative at this point because the Computer Science curriculum has more classes that could be useful in developing skills in Mathematics (my weak spot) and the sciences (which I find myself drawn to more so then Literature at this time). I guess I am confused because Computer Science is a field that primarily men go into and if I go into this field, I may find that I would possibly be more in competition with men rather then one who is a "helper". :think:

thanks

anna

[GuySmiley]

Hi everyone,

This question is for Lucky, but other Christians are welcome to post as well.

I've often wondered about my role as a woman in society. I know the scripture says women are helpmates and I have also learned in other books and from my own experienes that women are responders while men are the ones who initiate.

If any man or woman is to fulfill the basic roles that God had intended them to fill, it is only reasonable to say that education is (in itself) necessary to draw out the talents or gifts that God has given to each of us so that each person can serve others more effectively.

At this point I see no problem in women going to college since college would give some opportunity to learn some basic learning tools such as reading, writing, and mathematics. Of course as a public school student going to a public university, I am fully aware of the amount of bull (to be frank) that students have to learn in order to gain access to some classes that could be useful for basic skills. So I know that colleges don't really educate people but rather brainwash them, but I know that there is at least some things that could possibly be beneficial.

Just so you know. I am currently a Computer Science Major who is seriously thinking of changing her major, but can't see any possible alternative at this point because the Computer Science curriculum has more classes that could be useful in developing skills in Mathematics (my weak spot) and the sciences (which I find myself drawn to more so then Literature at this time). I guess I am confused because Computer Science is a field that primarily men go into and if I go into this field, I may find that I would possibly be more in competition with men rather then one who is a "helper". :think:

thanks

anna
There is nothing wrong with women having jobs. Jobs sometimes require higher education. If you are interested in a job that requires higher education, then go to college. No problem.

[kmoney]

What GuySmiley said. :thumb:

[PureX]

Women should go to "special" colleges where they learn how to please their men more fully. They should take classes like: "Obedience 101", "Accepting Male Domination And Superiority For Jesus Sake", and "Advanced Homaking". They should be thoroughly tested and scored so that their future husbands will know that his prospective bride's docility is bonsfide, and not just some female ploy cooked up by satan.

[anna]

Women should go to "special" colleges where they learn how to please their men more fully. They should take classes like: "Obedience 101", "Accepting Male Domination And Superiority For Jesus Sake", and "Advanced Homaking". They should be thoroughly tested and scored so that their future husbands will know that his prospective bride's docility is bonsfide, and not just some female ploy cooked up by satan.

:chuckle:
I think that some men do get to be ridiculus when they say that women shouldn't go to college, but I was curious to see what Lucky's reasons were. :think:

I don't plan on getting married any time soon, but if I did it wouldn't be to someone who thought so highly of himself that he was somehow God's gift to women. I know that there are men out there who believe the scriptures but don't use them to rule women with an iron fist. :Princess:

anna

[One Eyed Jack]

If math isn't your strong point, then computer science might not be the thing for you.

[anna]

There is nothing wrong with women having jobs. Jobs sometimes require higher education. If you are interested in a job that requires higher education, then go to college. No problem.

I agree. I live in the real world , so I know I need a job. I am just a women who is very detail oriented and analytical so I don't think I would fit in as well in jobs that are filled primarily by women. It's kinda wierd because I don't fit the stereotypical mold of a woman and there are alot of men who are easily threatened by women like me, so I try to soften up a little.

[anna]

If math isn't your strong point, then computer science might not be the thing for you.

See..that is what I am thinking too eventhough I have heard from people who write programs that math has nothing to do with it. I am beginning to think that those people who told me that were misinformed or are not as advanced in their programming skills. My programming professors tell me not to worry about the math and focus on the programming classes

But then again...alot of math majors are stuggling too with Calculus. The professors tell me that it takes a long time to understand proofs and yet we have less then half the time to understand at least the concepts. The math professors also tell me that alot of people avoid taking math because they are just too intimidated but who have the potential to learn the math because they didn't get the opportunity to learn it because the education system is pathetic.

[Lucky]

:noid:

[CRASH]

Women should go to "special" colleges where they learn how to please their men more fully. They should take classes like: "Obedience 101", "Accepting Male Domination And Superiority For Jesus Sake", and "Advanced Homaking". They should be thoroughly tested and scored so that their future husbands will know that his prospective bride's docility is bonsfide, and not just some female ploy cooked up by satan.

Typical :PureX:

[One Eyed Jack]

See..that is what I am thinking too eventhough I have heard from people who write programs that math has nothing to do with it.

I've been programming since I was 12, and believe me, math has everything to do with it. You're manipulating numbers -- that's what a computer does. Anyone who says math has nothing to do with it is simply being foolish.

I am beginning to think that those people who told me that were misinformed or are not as advanced in their programming skills. My programming professors tell me not to worry about the math and focus on the programming classes

Hey, if you like programming, then try to bone up on your math skills and stick with it. If you don't like it, find something else.

But then again...alot of math majors are stuggling too with Calculus. The professors tell me that it takes a long time to understand proofs and yet we have less then half the time to understand at least the concepts.

I dunno. Math has always come easy to me, so I can't really relate to that.

[CRASH]

No. Generally it is really a bad idea.

[anna]

:noid:
:confused:

[elohiym]

Women should go to "special" colleges where they learn how to please their men more fully. They should take classes like: "Obedience 101", "Accepting Male Domination And Superiority For Jesus Sake", and "Advanced Homaking". They should be thoroughly tested and scored so that their future husbands will know that his prospective bride's docility is bonsfide, and not just some female ploy cooked up by satan.And they should only be admitted to that college if they are virgins.

[CRASH]

I agree. I live in the real world , so I know I need a job. I am just a women who is very detail oriented and analytical so I don't think I would fit in as well in jobs that are filled primarily by women. It's kinda wierd because I don't fit the stereotypical mold of a woman and there are alot of men who are easily threatened by women like me, so I try to soften up a little.

Do you ever plan to get married and have children?

[hoosiermommy]

To give my womenly opinion on the topic.

I know first hand that you can indeed survive in this world without a college degree.
True, you might limit your job market.

There are some careers that will pay for your training at a specialized school. (ex: the nursing home I worked for would sponser some of the CNA's to become LPN's).

Having gone to college, I also know that it can be a danger zone for Christians that are week in their faith.

Also, from the non-feminist point of veiw, it seems that some women seem to put family life on hold so that they can justify their degree. They go to college, get their degree, then have to climb the corperate ladder. Then they get high enough on that corperate ladder that they don't want to lose their spot.

[anna]

I've been programming since I was 12, and believe me, math has everything to do with it. You're manipulating numbers -- that's what a computer does. Anyone who says math has nothing to do with it is simply being foolish.



Hey, if you like programming, then try to bone up on your math skills and stick with it. If you don't like it, find something else.



I dunno. Math has always come easy to me, so I can't really relate to that.

From what I know of math, the same process you go about solving word problems is the same or similar process you would go about writing programs. It's true, you are manipulating numbers and yet the way you do it is not all math but rather you are using some math with the logic of the particular programming language so I know that strong communication skills is a must.
I also read how strong reading and writings skills is connected to math skills. It seems reasonable to think this since math and communications involving becoming familiar with symbols and the relationships the symbols have with each other.

Yeah..I bought a Precalculus book and when I read that book, it doesn't look as greek as when I open my Calculus book so I know I can't be completely lost.

Being able to grasp the meaning of words became a strength once I overcame a learning disability I had as a child. I think in this case it will take some time to figure out if I am any good at math since I seem to be having problems concentrating. Right now, I think the reason I could follow and appreciate the lectures in my Biology class easier then I could follow math is because of a lack of experience, but I don't know for certain at this time.

[Lucky]

If the woman wants to become a successful wife and mother, then going to college is not a good idea. If she wants take on Adam's curse, then college will most likely be quite beneficial.

[anna]

Do you ever plan to get married and have children?

I know that marrage in the future would be a possibility, but right now I know that it isn't.
:Princess:

I have learned not to make many assumptions, but I try to make plans that would be both consistent to my understanding of the scriptures. I have ideals and principles but I try to be practical in the applying these ideals. I read the scriptures and see the way things should be; I live in the world and I see the way things are, but I try to apply what I read.

[The Berean]

anna,

What other potential majors are you considering switching to?

[One Eyed Jack]

How about psychology? If I weren't a computer geek, that's what I would have gotten into. Then again, I changed majors several times and dropped out, so who am I to be giving advice?

[anna]

To give my womenly opinion on the topic.

I know first hand that you can indeed survive in this world without a college degree.
True, you might limit your job market.

There are some careers that will pay for your training at a specialized school. (ex: the nursing home I worked for would sponser some of the CNA's to become LPN's).

Having gone to college, I also know that it can be a danger zone for Christians that are week in their faith.

Also, from the non-feminist point of veiw, it seems that some women seem to put family life on hold so that they can justify their degree. They go to college, get their degree, then have to climb the corperate ladder. Then they get high enough on that corperate ladder that they don't want to lose their spot.

I have heard from people that the blue-collared people are the ones who get the jobs.

I heard this too, but you have to know what you want to do or you are stuck doing that because you have to pay the bills.

That is most certainly true. It takes diligence to keep one's faith in college. I have never had doubts about salvation, but I know how much influence the destructive teachings taught as scientifc or scholarly have on the individual thought lives of christians. The scriptures warn us against myths and old fables (I remember reading Medea and realized that studing it along with other greek literature can encourage strife)

That's true in some cases, but I have no desire to make a name for myself. I just want to be able to pay the bills and afford decent health care.

[CRASH]

I know that marrage in the future would be a possibility, but right now I know that it isn't.
:Princess:

I have learned not to make many assumptions, but I try to make plans that would be both consistent to my understanding of the scriptures. I have ideals and principles but I try to be practical in the applying these ideals. I read the scriptures and see the way things should be; I live in the world and I see the way things are, but I try to apply what I read.

I do not condemn you for going to college. It's just that it often is not wise. It is doubtful that any of my children will go to college and especially my girls. Why is marriage not a possibility now? Are you too young?

I have to agree with Lucky on this. Are you a big fan of rush hour traffic and handing over your kids to some minimum wage earner who will get to hear your baby utter her first "Mommy"?

[anna]

anna,

What other potential majors are considering switching to?

Teaching is a possible major, but I don't know since I don't think I could be effective in a public school and I don't know what subject I want to teach, but if the government made it illegal someday for people to homeschool then I would be a licensed teacher and could teach my children or someone elses childern.
I was a Music Ed major at one time, but I also want to instill in people the importance of reading and writing because I see alot of college students struggle more then me because they lack basic skills.

I would also consider Technical Writing since I can understand things and break them down on a conceptual level. I would consider editing or writing textbooks if I knew if I had the freedom to write or edit textbooks that would support the Christian world view instead of the garbage I have to read.

[anna]

I do not condemn you for going to college. It's just that it often is not wise. It is doubtful that any of my children will go to college and especially my girls. Why is marriage not a possibility now? Are you too young?

I have to agree with Lucky on this. Are you a big fan of rush hour traffic and handing over your kids to some minimum wage earner who will get to hear your baby utter her first "Mommy"?

No, I am not too young(I'm 26), but I have many issues I have to work out before I could be a good wife and mother.

I am not a big fan of giving over my childern to anyone who didn't believe in God. I would want to stay home and teach my children myself, but I haven't fully developed as a human being eventhough I have a much more solid foundation in my faith then most Christian college students.
:angel:

[One Eyed Jack]

When is one ever fully developed as a human being? If you're waiting for that, you might end up waiting forever.

[avatar382]

Anna how far are you in your Computer Science curriculum? There are many areas of study within comp sci, and some are more math intensive than others.

Regardless, any University program in computer science is going to be heavy on the math, particularly discrete math. Not quite the same as high school or college algebra/pre-calc, etc.

Good luck with your studies. There is a lot of opportunity for women in Computer Science. I love to see women in the sciences.

If you have any specific questions about comp sci, feel free to ask, I have a bachelor's degree in it and am employed as a php programmer.

[anna]

I do not condemn you for going to college. It's just that it often is not wise. It is doubtful that any of my children will go to college and especially my girls. Why is marriage not a possibility now? Are you too young?

I have to agree with Lucky on this. Are you a big fan of rush hour traffic and handing over your kids to some minimum wage earner who will get to hear your baby utter her first "Mommy"?


Hi Crash,

What kind of education would your children have and what would they do? How will they use their gifts? :angel:

[One Eyed Jack]

Hopefully, they will use them wisely. Personally, I'd be more concerned about my own dilemma.

[erinmarie]

No, I am not too young(I'm 26), but I have many issues I have to work out before I could be a good wife and mother.

I am not a big fan of giving over my childern to anyone who didn't believe in God. I would want to stay home and teach my children myself, but I haven't fully developed as a human being eventhough I have a much more solid foundation in my faith then most Christian college students.
:angel:

I think though this might be okay for you, alot of christian women are trapped by this mentality. They get a good job, get married, and buy a home, two cars, and get used to living the two income lifestyle, and then by the time the children come it's pretty hard to give all that up. I know lots of couples that have fallen down this pit, it's near to impossible to climb out of.

Now, I do believe that college can be good for women. I know a few couples that the wife is college educated and a stay at home mom, and Thank God that they didn't fall into the two income pit. ;)
The college degree helps the woman better herself and have a good background for homeschooling (although not neccesary).
Also, if something might happen to the husband, there would be the security of a college degree and more income opportunities for the mother.

[anna]

When is one ever fully developed as a human being? If you're waiting for that, you might end up waiting forever.

:chuckle: :think: I guess what I mean to say is that I don't know what I want. If I ever decided to get married then I would have to know when I meet someone that he and I not only share the same beliefs and values, but also he and I would have a common goal or direction. It's important for me to know that if I marry that I could actually share a life with someone and not just be only ships passing in the night.

[CRASH]

No, I am not too young(I'm 26), but I have many issues I have to work out before I could be a good wife and mother.

I am not a big fan of giving over my childern to anyone who didn't believe in God. I would want to stay home and teach my children myself, but I haven't fully developed as a human being eventhough I have a much more solid foundation in my faith then most Christian college students.
:angel:

Like what? Who doesn't have issues? Get it worked out today. Go to a good church - there are guys there who need a loving Christian wife now. Heck, some guy might be able to help you solve those problems if you can be humble. Be strong in who you are in Christ!

[Sozo]

Women should be workers at home. If it takes an education of some sort to further that position and be more successful at it, then so be it.

[Christine]

I believe that believers should be able to support themselves. If you're married, you're husband can support you and the family. However, if you're single, you have to have some way of supporting yourself. If you have to go to college to be able to support yourself, then so be it. I'm recently graduated and attending college, something I never thought I would do.

[anna]

Anna how far are you in your Computer Science curriculum? There are many areas of study within comp sci, and some are more math intensive than others.

Regardless, any University program in computer science is going to be heavy on the math, particularly discrete math. Not quite the same as high school or college algebra/pre-calc, etc.

Good luck with your studies. There is a lot of opportunity for women in Computer Science. I love to see women in the sciences.

If you have any specific questions about comp sci, feel free to ask, I have a bachelor's degree in it and am employed as a php programmer.

Hi avatar382, :wave:

I am not very far in my actual computer science classes, but since my credits transfered from a different college(different major too) and I took some general core classes in the curriculum, I am an upperclass student. I was taking Calculus and the second computer science class (programming in Java).

I am considered to be your typical user(at best) who hasn't learned how to use all the programs on my computer, but I learn fairly quickly and I know that when you write programs, you are interacting with the computer at a lower level, so it doesn't seem crucial that I be a whiz at using applications software, but I am sure it helps in designing a program that is more user friendly.

What I like about Computer Science is that it is very black and white. It is either off or on there is no in between. Sometiems I like things to be simple and make sence eventhough human beings are too complex to grasp simple things. When I get frustrated at the computer I know that I am frustrated with myself and that is comforting because it is easier to figure out how to solve the problem or write the code. There is no messenger, message, and recipient of message so the only person I need to be patient with is my self. ;) Of course sometimes I like helping people eventhough it can be very stressful trying to communicate with them.

[anna]

I believe that believers should be able to support themselves. If you're married, you're husband can support you and the family. However, if you're single, you have to have some way of supporting yourself. If you have to go to college to be able to support yourself, then so be it. I'm recently graduated and attending college, something I never thought I would do.

I think so too eventhough we have to be very diligent and not let the college life influence us. :thumb:

[CRASH]

Hi Crash,

What kind of education would your children have and what would they do? How will they use their gifts? :angel:

Research indicates that there is no correlation between level of education of the parents and academic success of homeschool children. What is required is at least one loving parent.



My boys will apprentice at whatever career they choose or go into business. If they have to go to college to follow their dreams - like to become a doctor, they will pay their own way.



Colleges in general, are moral sinkholes and financial sinkholes.



Colleges are almost obsolete. Ever heard of Google? Virtually all known information is at our fingertips now. I know tons of people who do not have degrees but are successful (honest and provide for their families) and there are lots of burger flippers with college degrees!



My kids are homeschooled. They know how to think. We visit college campuses and debate college students on abortion, homosexuality and if there a God. My little kids pin the big smart philosophical college students every time. Talk about an education. When some idiot starts spouting the f word because he lost the debate, my kids take note of the evil residing in man and the broken thinking they see all around them at the college campus!



My girls will marry Christian men and be loving wives who homeschool their kids! They will have arranged marriages.

[anna]

Like what? Who doesn't have issues? Get it worked out today. Go to a good church - there are guys there who need a loving Christian wife now. Heck, some guy might be able to help you solve those problems if you can be humble. Be strong in who you are in Christ!

I can understand your frustration, every church I go I find young men and sometimes their mothers who are looking for marrage, but I know enough about my own walk to know that now is not the time. It is better to be patient and let God work on my heart and mind then to insist that I act on some impulse to avoid being alone.

[Shalom]

Women should do whatever they want to do. If they dont want to be housewives then they shouldnt. If they want to go to college and become pediatricians they should. If they want to get married and have ten children they should. If they get married and dont want children then they shouldnt have them. There is nothing wrong with openly admitting that you dont really know or you are not sure if your ready for marriage. Jumping into marriage and having babies isnt the smartest move either. There are many factors that play into these desicions and choices. Bottom line there is nothing wrong with women who have careers, your kids dont have to get handed over to someone "evil" while you work, and if you dont even want to have kids or ever get married then thats okay too. On the other hand being married and a stay at home Mom is a wonderful experience if it works for you and your husband.

[Christine]

I think so too eventhough we have to be very diligent and not let the college life influence us. :thumb:
I believe that if one is truly a grounded believer there is little chance of that happening. When I hear of such incidents, I wonder of the college student was truly a believer or just saying so to placate Dad and Mom. When freed from "Mama's apron strings" for the first time, their true colors show.

[anna]

Research indicates that there is no correlation between level of education of the parents and academic success of homeschool children. What is required is at least one loving parent.



My boys will apprentice at whatever career they choose or go into business. If they have to go to college to follow their dreams - like to become a doctor, they will pay their own way.



Colleges in general, are moral sinkholes and financial sinkholes.



Colleges are almost obsolete. Ever heard of Google? Virtually all known information is at our fingertips now. I know tons of people who do not have degrees but are successful (honest and provide for their families) and there are lots of burger flippers with college degrees!



My kids are homeschooled. They know how to think. We visit college campuses and debate college students on abortion, homosexuality and if there a God. My little kids pin the big smart philosophical college students every time. Talk about an education. When some idiot starts spouting the f word because he lost the debate, my kids take note of the evil residing in man and the broken thinking they see all around them at the college campus!



My girls will marry Christian men and be loving wives who homeschool their kids! They will have arranged marriages.

Cool...

I agree with you. I think all you need is a parent who loves their children and the rest will take care of itself. I have read studies that claim that teachers who get degrees in higher education actually have students who test lower. This doesn't suprise me. I have had teachers who couldn't even write me a recomendation letter because their basic skills were not very good and I have been looking over the curriculum at different colleges for teaching programs and much of it is just a waste of time. This is why if I am going to college then I must try to find a curriculum that has more emphasis on math and science and foreign languages rather then classes like psychology, sociology, etc...

[CRASH]

I can understand your frustration, every church I go I find young men and sometimes their mothers who are looking for marrage, but I know enough about my own walk to know that now is not the time. It is better to be patient and let God work on my heart and mind then to insist that I act on some impulse to avoid being alone.

I'm not frustrated. I want the best for you!

[anna]

I believe that if one is truly a grounded believer there is little chance of that happening. When I hear of such incidents, I wonder of the college student was truly a believer or just saying so to placate Dad and Mom. When freed from "Mama's apron strings" for the first time, their true colors show.

I think it is true that true believers will stick to their guns, but even the true believers waste alot of time fighting battles in their head(some battles are necessary for spiritual growth, though) then learning knowledge that will open their hearts and minds and give them the true joy of learning. When I first became a Christian, I just was in awe and wanted to know more about everything because I knew even then that true knowledge brings me closer to God.

[Shalom]

I believe that if one is truly a grounded believer there is little chance of that happening. When I hear of such incidents, I wonder of the college student was truly a believer or just saying so to placate Dad and Mom. When freed from "Mama's apron strings" for the first time, their true colors show.


I must admit that I will be very picky about the whole where and for what my kids would be going to college. My decisions would have to be based on a lot of different things as far as where and why my kids would be going to college. I also wouldnt really care at all if my kids didnt ever go to college. I would want what is best for them.

I know of a lot of different situations that people I know choose and some were great and some didnt work at all. I also know a lot of girls who went to college and got a degree then got married had kids and never used it, so it was a waste. It all just depends on what happens or what your plans are.

[anna]

I'm not frustrated. I want the best for you!

Aww... ;)

It is going to take time. You can't hurry progress, but I appreciate the sentiment and the exhortation :angel:

[anna]

I must admit that I will be very picky about the whole where and for what my kids would be going to college. My decisions would have to be based on a lot of different things as far as where and why my kids would be going to college. I also wouldnt really care at all if my kids didnt ever go to college. I would want what is best for them.

I know of a lot of different situations that people I know choose and some were great and some didnt work at all. I also know a lot of girls who went to college and got a degree then got married had kids and never used it, so it was a waste. It all just depends on what happens or what your plans are.

It must be tough being a parent, but I don't think that the idea of college is a complete waste even for those who never use their degree to pursue a career. If you try to take advantage of what little there is to teach basic skills then it isn't a complete loss. I think you have to try to make the most out of what you have to work with and doing that will be a reward unto itself. Sometimes you can look at what seems to be time that was spent going nowhere and still find something useful about it.

[PureX]

And they should only be admitted to that college if they are virgins.Of course. They must be tested, and the one's that aren't virgins get sent to that other college where they learn to be professional prostitutes. Because in the bible, there are only virgins and whores.

[Sozo]

Of course. They must be tested, and the one's that aren't virgins get sent to that other college where they learn to be professional prostitutes.


Sound like No Worries may have found his calling!

[anna]

Of course. They must be tested, and the one's that aren't virgins get sent to that other college where they learn to be professional prostitutes. Because in the bible, there are only virgins and whores.

:chuckle: :think: That is true; if a woman sleeps with a man she is not married to then she is a whore, and the man who sleeps with a whore is not really a man but a male who lacks self control and is not qualified to be a good leader in his own home or in the church.

[anna]

If the woman wants to become a successful wife and mother, then going to college is not a good idea. If she wants take on Adam's curse, then college will most likely be quite beneficial.

What would you suggest for women who need to get a job to pay bills while possibly considering marrage in the future?

[Christine]

I must admit that I will be very picky about the whole where and for what my kids would be going to college. My decisions would have to be based on a lot of different things as far as where and why my kids would be going to college. I also wouldnt really care at all if my kids didnt ever go to college. I would want what is best for them.
My parents didn't really care if my sister or I went to college. However, I want to go into nursing, where it's pretty hard to get a job without college. My sister is unsure of what she'll do, but hasn't ruled out anything. :)

[CRASH]

What would you suggest for women who need to get a job to pay bills while possibly considering marrage in the future?
Get married.:wave:

[anna]

Women should do whatever they want to do. If they dont want to be housewives then they shouldnt. If they want to go to college and become pediatricians they should. If they want to get married and have ten children they should. If they get married and dont want children then they shouldnt have them. There is nothing wrong with openly admitting that you dont really know or you are not sure if your ready for marriage. Jumping into marriage and having babies isnt the smartest move either. There are many factors that play into these desicions and choices. Bottom line there is nothing wrong with women who have careers, your kids dont have to get handed over to someone "evil" while you work, and if you dont even want to have kids or ever get married then thats okay too. On the other hand being married and a stay at home Mom is a wonderful experience if it works for you and your husband.

This is why I have to decide what I want first and then figure out how to go about doing it.
Many people get married and don't have a clue what they are getting into. They just want someone they can play house with, but when the chips fall down (and they do if you are human and live on planet Earth) they crumble because their marrage was not based on equal submission to the lord and love and service to one another.

[anna]

Get married.:wave:

You're funny :chuckle:

[Shalom]

My parents didn't really care if my sister or I went to college. However, I want to go into nursing, where it's pretty hard to get a job without college. My sister is unsure of what she'll do, but hasn't ruled out anything. :)

That is how I was also raised. I too was going to go into nursing untill my Dad made the desicion to want to start to retire at my families electrical contracting business. I learned to estimate houses when I was a junior in high school and I used to help my Dad out by doing some houses on occasion. When he wanted to start to retire the desicion was made in my family for me to take over the residential estimating for our business and now I am doing so. My kids go to private school and are picked up by my Mom at 3:15pm and she has them till 5:00pm. They love getting to spend time with their Grandma and I love to work with and help out my brothers Vaquero45 and Guysmilie who are now taking over the business so it all works out for my situation.

[Freak]

Hi everyone,

This question is for Lucky, but other Christians are welcome to post as well.

I've often wondered about my role as a woman in society. I know the scripture says women are helpmates and I have also learned in other books and from my own experienes that women are responders while men are the ones who initiate.


annaGod's Word gives us insight into this:

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

[anna]

My parents didn't really care if my sister or I went to college. However, I want to go into nursing, where it's pretty hard to get a job without college. My sister is unsure of what she'll do, but hasn't ruled out anything. :)

My mother was a nurse and she told me that you have to go to college for that, but when she got her license she didn't have to have a 4yr degree. I know there are some jobs in healthcare that don't require 4yr degrees but it doesn't look like they pay well. I think if you're going to spend any lengthy period of time in any school, you might as well get a job that will pay a decent salary so you can afford decent healthcare.

[anna]

God's Word gives us insight into this:

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

Hi Freak :wave:
Proverbs is my favorite book

[Freak]

[color=black][size=2]Colleges in general, are moral sinkholes and financial sinkholes.



Colleges are almost obsolete. Ever heard of Google? Virtually all known information is at our fingertips now. I know tons of people who do not have degrees but are successful (honest and provide for their families) and there are lots of burger flippers with college degrees!


My girls will marry Christian men and be loving wives who homeschool their kids! They will have arranged marriages.All great points and true too!

[Shalom]

This is why I have to decide what I want first and then figure out how to go about doing it.
Many people get married and don't have a clue what they are getting into. They just want someone they can play house with, but when the chips fall down (and they do if you are human and live on planet Earth) they crumble because their marrage was not based on equal submission to the lord and love and service to one another.

This is so true which is why you must choose your mate wisely.

I got married when I was barely 20 and had my first baby girl when I was barley 21. I'm 29 now and my friends are just now getting married. My husband and I always say thats okay that way our kids can be their baby sitters and ours can earn some extra money. ;)
Marriage can be as difficult as you want to make it, that is what my husband and I have noticed. We watch our friends fight over some of the most piddley things, and some of my girlfriends are the most high-maintenence chicks :chuckle: It is rather entertaining sometimes though.

[Freak]

Hi friend!Hi Freak :wave:
Proverbs is my favorite bookLook at verse 16: She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

A righteous woman can work outside the home but never at the cost of losing ones family. My wife works at home 4 days out of the 5 days a work week. This leaves alot of time for family!

[Shalom]

My mother was a nurse and she told me that you have to go to college for that, but when she got her license she didn't have to have a 4yr degree. I know there are some jobs in healthcare that don't require 4yr degrees but it doesn't look like they pay well. I think if you're going to spend any lengthy period of time in any school, you might as well get a job that will pay a decent salary so you can afford decent healthcare.

You can get your nursing degree in two years if you can meet all the pre-requisite class requirements I think.

[anna]

Hi friend!Look at verse 16: She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

A righteous woman can work outside the home but never at the cost of losing ones family. My wife works at home 4 days out of the 5 days a work week. This leaves alot of time for family!

That's true , if you choose a career that will allow you to be more at home. If I choose the computer science route, I may be able to do work on the side and in the convience of my own home. If I was a teacher, I would have summers off, but during the year it would be difficult for me to devote time and attention to my family(my sister is a teacher and tells me whats involved with her job) and I would have to try to teach in a private Christian school.

[anna]

You can get your nursing degree in two years if you can meet all the pre-requisite class requirements I think.

I would have to check into that. My mother was an nurse anesthiatist(don't know how to spell it, but basically she put people to sleep). One good thing about nursing would be to work will doctors who specialize in integrative medicine. I don't know much about this branch of medicine, but from the looks of it, it sounds like something that would be more helpful in teaching people to live healthier lifestyles instead of telling them to pop pills all of the time.

[CRASH]

All great points and true too!

Welcome back Freak-a-zoid.

:CRASH:

[anna]

I think though this might be okay for you, alot of christian women are trapped by this mentality. They get a good job, get married, and buy a home, two cars, and get used to living the two income lifestyle, and then by the time the children come it's pretty hard to give all that up. I know lots of couples that have fallen down this pit, it's near to impossible to climb out of.

Now, I do believe that college can be good for women. I know a few couples that the wife is college educated and a stay at home mom, and Thank God that they didn't fall into the two income pit. ;)
The college degree helps the woman better herself and have a good background for homeschooling (although not neccesary).
Also, if something might happen to the husband, there would be the security of a college degree and more income opportunities for the mother.

Hi erinmarie,
I think it is important for me to get a degree or some kind of education so that I can get a job because I think it is the right thing to do for me. Not only would I be able to support myself, but if I got married and my husband couldn't work or left me then I would be able to support the family.

[CRASH]

Hi erinmarie,
I think it is important for me to get a degree or some kind of education so that I can get a job because I think it is the right thing to do for me. Not only would I be able to support myself, but if I got married and my husband couldn't work or left me then I would be able to support the family.

Or if your husband left you could just get married again. Not many husbands can't work and a degree will not increase your chances much to get a job. Sorry to be such a party pooper on your big plans but planning your life around marrying a guy who will leave you or soon after the honeymoon become obsolete economically seems pretty crazy to me.

[CRASH]

Anna-

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In Titus 2 where God commands the aged women to teach the younger women, I have obeyed and given you my very best - 24 chapters, 291 pages, from meal planning to sex, including letters from my readers, recounting counseling sessions, wisdom gleaned from my own daughters, my very own personal experience and, of course, the Word of God (524 Scripture references).

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[No Worries]

I recommend 'The Female Eunuch' by Germaine Greer.



If Germaine sees this thread, duck and cover.
Duck And Cover.

[Christine]

My mother was a nurse and she told me that you have to go to college for that, but when she got her license she didn't have to have a 4yr degree. I know there are some jobs in healthcare that don't require 4yr degrees but it doesn't look like they pay well. I think if you're going to spend any lengthy period of time in any school, you might as well get a job that will pay a decent salary so you can afford decent healthcare.
That's very true. While I'm just working on pre-nursing courses right now, I'll probably enroll in a diploma program and have just as many job opportunities as someone with a 4 year degree in nursing. However, since I want to be a nurse-midwife, eventually I'll have to get a 4 year, but this way, I won't have to go into debt to get it. :D

[Christine]

That is how I was also raised. I too was going to go into nursing untill my Dad made the desicion to want to start to retire at my families electrical contracting business. I learned to estimate houses when I was a junior in high school and I used to help my Dad out by doing some houses on occasion. When he wanted to start to retire the desicion was made in my family for me to take over the residential estimating for our business and now I am doing so. My kids go to private school and are picked up by my Mom at 3:15pm and she has them till 5:00pm. They love getting to spend time with their Grandma and I love to work with and help out my brothers Vaquero45 and Guysmilie who are now taking over the business so it all works out for my situation.
It's great that you had a family business to work at!

[Freak]

That's true , if you choose a career that will allow you to be more at home. If I choose the computer science route, I may be able to do work on the side and in the convience of my own home. .My wife works in the computer industry & is able to work at home 4 days a week. The day she is out of the home, it's a short day, perhaps 5 hours. Not bad & alot of time for the family!

[OlDove]

Should women go to college?

YES!!!!!!!!

[anna]

Or if your husband left you could just get married again. Not many husbands can't work and a degree will not increase your chances much to get a job. Sorry to be such a party pooper on your big plans but planning your life around marrying a guy who will leave you or soon after the honeymoon become obsolete economically seems pretty crazy to me.

What would happen between divorcing one husband and marrying another (assuming that this is possible)?" Where would the children and I get the financial resources to exist.

True most men have to work, but not many people who work have good health benefits.

I don't plan on anything, I just don't make that many assumptions.

It only seems crazy to you because you don't have the ability to understand what life is like for other people. With most christians I talk with, I find that they have a difficult time stepping outside of their own world of expectations. They have never been in the circumstances I have encountered but still they give simple pat answers because they make too many assumptions and don't have much patience for those who see things a different way. They want to solve the problem now and they want the answers to everything now which is why they spend so much money on books that tell them what to think and do instead of focusing more meditating on the Word of God and applying what they know to the particular situation they are in.

I am not against reading other books, (I will check out the ones mentioned above), but I don't feel the urgent need to have somebody personally (or indirectly thru some book) to
constantly be standing over my shoulder telling me "now you should do such and such" and "you should think so and so". That isn't the way I work. I read the Bible and some other books, go to church, fellowship with other christians,talk to other people, and I go and have quiet time where I actually think things out for myself without catering to the voices that tell me to do otherwise.

[anna]

My wife works in the computer industry & is able to work at home 4 days a week. The day she is out of the home, it's a short day, perhaps 5 hours. Not bad & alot of time for the family!
Cool..what specifically does she do ..if you don't mind my asking. Computer Science is such a broad field and I am a novice, but I enjoy things that challenge me to find out what my gifts and limitations are. :)

[anna]

That's very true. While I'm just working on pre-nursing courses right now, I'll probably enroll in a diploma program and have just as many job opportunities as someone with a 4 year degree in nursing. However, since I want to be a nurse-midwife, eventually I'll have to get a 4 year, but this way, I won't have to go into debt to get it. :D
I see.. you are step stoning to your career. That's neat, now if I can figure out what I want then I could do that too, take classes that will get me a job so that I can afford or get payed to take other classes to get where I want to get.

Nurse-midwife..that sounds neat. There are so many things about healthcare that I don't know. I am just now begining to learn about how to deal with insurance companies, so it gives me an idea of how to make practical plans. It's expensive to get quality healthcare so I want to know what I can expect to spend on insurance and out of pocket expenses. Of course, this depends on your own individual set of health concerns. :)

[Freak]

Cool..what specifically does she do ..if you don't mind my asking. Computer Science is such a broad field and I am a novice, but I enjoy things that challenge me to find out what my gifts and limitations are. :)She is a systems admin. I would encourage you to get some of the basic certifications and that may assist you in locating a good job.

[anna]

She is a systems admin. I would encourage you to get some of the basic certifications and that may assit you in locating good job.

thanks, I'll look into it further. One of my sisters is in the IT business and has her own marketing business, so I will ask her what specific certifications are the most marketable at this time.

[CRASH]

What would happen between divorcing one husband and marrying another (assuming that this is possible)?" Where would the children and I get the financial resources to exist.

True most men have to work, but not many people who work have good health benefits.

I don't plan on anything, I just don't make that many assumptions.

It only seems crazy to you because you don't have the ability to understand what life is like for other people. With most christians I talk with, I find that they have a difficult time stepping outside of their own world of expectations. They have never been in the circumstances I have encountered but still they give simple pat answers because they make too many assumptions and don't have much patience for those who see things a different way. They want to solve the problem now and they want the answers to everything now which is why they spend so much money on books that tell them what to think and do instead of focusing more meditating on the Word of God and applying what they know to the particular situation they are in.

I am not against reading other books, (I will check out the ones mentioned above), but I don't feel the urgent need to have somebody personally (or indirectly thru some book) to
constantly be standing over my shoulder telling me "now you should do such and such" and "you should think so and so". That isn't the way I work. I read the Bible and some other books, go to church, fellowship with other christians,talk to other people, and I go and have quiet time where I actually think things out for myself without catering to the voices that tell me to do otherwise.

Anna-
I think I do have some idea of what life can be like for others. I've lived 43 years and survived some pretty extreme experiences including extreme poverty, constant physical abuse, divorced parents, drug addiction and public school! My life has changed forever because of what Jesus has done for me and I truley live the abundant life in every way now! 18 years of strong marriage, 5 great children, basic needs met. I try to see things the way I think God sees them - very black and white - like the Bible. I am only trying to encourage you. Take it or leave it.

The Bible is where you get the answers to life. And God gave teachers to the body so I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at a teachers in depth study on a certain subject and lining it up with God's word. I am sorry if you thought I was calling you crazy. I wasn't. This is just an imperfect method of communication. I think your way of doing things is fine. relax. Just trying to be helpful.:D

[anna]

Anna-
I think I do have some idea of what life can be like for others. I've lived 43 years and survived some pretty extreme experiences including extreme poverty, constant physical abuse, divorced parents, drug addiction and public school! My life has changed forever because of what Jesus has done for me and I truley live the abundant life in every way now! 18 years of strong marriage, 5 great children, basic needs met. I try to see things the way I think God sees them - very black and white - like the Bible. I am only trying to encourage you. Take it or leave it.

The Bible is where you get the answers to life. And God gave teachers to the body so I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at a teachers in depth study on a certain subject and lining it up with God's word. I am sorry if you thought I was calling you crazy. I wasn't. This is just an imperfect method of communication. I think your way of doing things is fine. relax. Just trying to be helpful.:D

I have met many people who have lived longer than me and have been through alot, but still lacked the patience to listen and try to understand what life is like for other people.
They think that because of their age and experience, that they are experts and that younger people or younger christians are simpletons.

I too, like to see things as God would see them. I tend to be very black and white about things, but I know that while God expects us to follow him, he knows that the path to maturity is not a quick easy fix.

I share the details of my life with you and others in the hope that while you may have more knowledge of the bible and more experience in living, you will realize the ever-growing need to be patient and better listeners so that when you deal with someone who is younger or younger in the faith, you will know how to keep the lines of communication open. Our attitudes influence our thoughts and our thoughts influence our words.

true, it is difficult to communicate on the internet, but the internet gives us the opportunity to think more before we speak and it helps us see our attitudes reflected in the words we speak. :)

[anna]

I have read the except on the book "Created to be his help meet" It sounds like a book for people who have already chosen someone in particular to marry. It's a little intertaining, but not a book that I would read at this time. Thanks for the suggestion.
:cool:

[anna]

I read a little of The Female Eunich. It is a catchy title, but its not really my style. If I want to bash evil men, I can use the Bible instead of worldly philosophy, but I'd rather not; It's a complete waste of time. :)

[Sealeaf]

All this talk of marriage and family verses career is fine but no one knows the future. You may very well have to be both a mother and a career woman. Get all the preparation you can.
The point of a college education is to develope "critical facilities". This means you learn how to sift data and determine objective truth. Not just take some authority's word for it. This is why a lot of loose talk and arguement are essential to the college experience. It is by experiencing this that you learn to sift the data for yourself. Along the way you are exposed to the recorded thought of some of the brightest people who have ever lived, hopefully presented to you by some pretty bright professors. You do not have strong beliefs until you have tested and defended those beliefs.

May I suggest that while you learn to think in college you also prepare for a specific job? I came out of school with a degree in English Literature. A BA in EngLit and $2.00 will get you a cupa coffee. I found that I wanted to get married after college and I can tell you that going back to school the get a saleable education while working at a menial job to support a family is not fun. ( I will never regret the EngLit course load though. I have read all of Shakespear. He remains the finest writer ever to write in English.)

[The Berean]

Colleges are almost obsolete. Ever heard of Google? Virtually all known information is at our fingertips now. I know tons of people who do not have degrees but are successful (honest and provide for their families) and there are lots of burger flippers with college degrees!
I agree with mostly everything you said, CRASH but I'm sorry this is absurd!! I work as an engineer in the aerospace industry. Try going to an interview at Lockheed Martin (where I work presently), Boeing, Space Systems/Loral, Orbital Sciences Corp., Northrop Grumman, Scaled Composites, Raytheon Space Systems, SpaceDev, Spectrum Astro, SLAC, SpaceX, T/Space, Kistler Aerospace, Applied Aerospace Structured Corporation, Vought Aircraft Industries, etc. and tell them, "No, I don't have an engineering degree but I watched lots of Star Trek and read about spacecraft and aircraft on Google!" What kind of response do you think they will get? :rolleyes:

Do you want the contractor who builds your house to learn about construction from Google? Do you want the doctor that may perform surgery on you to learn about surgery from Google? Do you want the engineer that design airliners that you may fly to learn about aerospace enigneering from watching Star Trek?

[BillyBob]

Should women go to college?



I didn't realize there are colleges that teach how to cook, wash dishes and do laundry.

[koban]

:darwinsm: That would be "The Academy For Barefoot and Pregnant" :chuckle:

[BillyBob]

Yeah, the course lasts about 15 minutes....on a good day!

[Frank Ernest]

Do you want the contractor who builds your house to learn about construction from Google?
:darwinsm: :BillyBob:?

Do you want the doctor that may perform surgery on you to learn about surgery from Google?
The last one that worked on me must have been a WalMart meat-cutter at one time.

Do you want the engineer that design airliners that you may fly to learn about aerospace enigneering from watching Star Trek?
Hey! The space shuttle idea and design were copped from the movie "2001!"

Seriously, I see your point. I worked in aerospace for a stretch. Most of the engineers I worked with were pretty good. Far as I know, they all had university degrees. (There was no Google to search at the time, but we did have DARPA.)

[BillyBob]

I can learn about construction from Google? :noway:

And here I've wasted the past 30 years learning it the 'old fashioned' way. :freak:

[CRASH]

I agree with mostly everything you said, CRASH but I'm sorry this is absurd!! I work as an engineer in the aerospace industry. Try going to an interview at Lockheed Martin (where I work presently), Boeing, Space Systems/Loral, Orbital Sciences Corp., Northrop Grumman, Scaled Composites, Raytheon Space Systems, SpaceDev, Spectrum Astro, SLAC, SpaceX, T/Space, Kistler Aerospace, Applied Aerospace Structured Corporation, Vought Aircraft Industries, etc. and tell them, "No, I don't have an engineering degree but I watched lots of Star Trek and read about spacecraft and aircraft on Google!" What kind of response do you think they will get? :rolleyes:

Do you want the contractor who builds your house to learn about construction from Google? Do you want the doctor that may perform surgery on you to learn about surgery from Google? Do you want the engineer that design airliners that you may fly to learn about aerospace enigneering from watching Star Trek?

Okay I retract the statement partially and it was to be understood in the context of the rest of my post. What I meant was "vast array of knowledge" is available and much of it is useful in various fields such as business. I did state previously that if my kid wanted to be a doctor he would need to go to College. I have a friend who apprenticed as an engineer and eventually worked on an optics application for the Apache helicopter. I bet you can apprentice as a homebuilder and fill in the blanks with Google.

[anna]

All this talk of marriage and family verses career is fine but no one knows the future. You may very well have to be both a mother and a career woman. Get all the preparation you can.
The point of a college education is to develope "critical facilities". This means you learn how to sift data and determine objective truth. Not just take some authority's word for it. This is why a lot of loose talk and arguement are essential to the college experience. It is by experiencing this that you learn to sift the data for yourself. Along the way you are exposed to the recorded thought of some of the brightest people who have ever lived, hopefully presented to you by some pretty bright professors. You do not have strong beliefs until you have tested and defended those beliefs.

May I suggest that while you learn to think in college you also prepare for a specific job? I came out of school with a degree in English Literature. A BA in EngLit and $2.00 will get you a cupa coffee. I found that I wanted to get married after college and I can tell you that going back to school the get a saleable education while working at a menial job to support a family is not fun. ( I will never regret the EngLit course load though. I have read all of Shakespear. He remains the finest writer ever to write in English.)

Hi Sealeaf,

My main goal in going to college is to get a job in a field that pays a decent salary. I also at the same time want to improve my thinking skills whether that be in communication or math skills. I agree that the future is uncertain and that some exposure to loose talk is good in helping me shape my own belief system.

One class that I found that was very helpful was a writing class I took at USM. The book we used was called Academic Writing and I think it was written by a Canadian author named Sonia Masik (sp?). The professor used the book to introduce a genre of writing that was said to exist between school-room writing and scholarly writing and helped me begin to understand how to shape or construct arguments that didn't start with the assumption that the reader believed in the Bible or even in absolute truth.

I think I understand what you mean by strong beliefs. I think that you are saying that beliefs are the ideas themselves or rather the persons understanding, knowledge, or ability to explain or debate their beliefs in a rational, consistent manner. I guess a better way to put things is to say that as a person, I am not as easily conformed or pursuaded to the ideas or attitudes that exist on campus that seem to be the most popular. I tend to think more about things then just automatically follow the crowd eventhough I may not have enough knowledge and perspective to fully articulate or defend my beliefs. I am not sure if this is a better way of saying this but I think it is at least a little more specific.

I had thought about teaching English eventhough I am not really a literature buff and tend to have a tough time with writers block, so I don't know if I would be a good English teacher. Even if I had the skills, I would still have to read enough literature so that I could understand how to take a student from where he is to where he could be(I've had other students ask me to help them with their papers, but I knew that I couldn't help them.). Like anything else it would take time that I don't know if I should spend.

When you mentioned Shakespeare, it reminded me of one of his sonnets that my English teacher used as an assignment for me to give me encouragement. I can't remember much it now since my memory is shot, but it starts like this:

When in disgrace in fortunes eyes.
I beweep my outcast state

mabye you could find some comfort in this sonnet whenever you are discouraged. I am sure you can remember it well since you love Shakespear.
:wave:

anna

[anna]

I didn't realize there are colleges that teach how to cook, wash dishes and do laundry.

Actually, some colleges do teach home economics, but if I choose to learn how to cook, I would go to culinary school so that learn use it at home and market it as a business. One particular kind of cooking I would be interested in would be the Mediterranean cuisine. It's exotic and from what I read is very good for you. I just love hummus. :Servent:

[anna]

I agree with mostly everything you said, CRASH but I'm sorry this is absurd!! I work as an engineer in the aerospace industry. Try going to an interview at Lockheed Martin (where I work presently), Boeing, Space Systems/Loral, Orbital Sciences Corp., Northrop Grumman, Scaled Composites, Raytheon Space Systems, SpaceDev, Spectrum Astro, SLAC, SpaceX, T/Space, Kistler Aerospace, Applied Aerospace Structured Corporation, Vought Aircraft Industries, etc. and tell them, "No, I don't have an engineering degree but I watched lots of Star Trek and read about spacecraft and aircraft on Google!" What kind of response do you think they will get? :rolleyes:

Do you want the contractor who builds your house to learn about construction from Google? Do you want the doctor that may perform surgery on you to learn about surgery from Google? Do you want the engineer that design airliners that you may fly to learn about aerospace enigneering from watching Star Trek?

Cool.. My dad is an aerospace engineer. He is the one who encouraged me to study computer science since I could understand most of what he says. He loves talking shop about transducers and locks-rich fuel and all kinds of other things you don't hear in everyday conversations. I guess that is why I like being around people who say things I don't understand because I like trying to figure out what they are saying.

[Christine]

All this talk of marriage and family verses career is fine but no one knows the future. You may very well have to be both a mother and a career woman. Get all the preparation you can.
The point of a college education is to develope "critical facilities". This means you learn how to sift data and determine objective truth. Not just take some authority's word for it. This is why a lot of loose talk and arguement are essential to the college experience. It is by experiencing this that you learn to sift the data for yourself. Along the way you are exposed to the recorded thought of some of the brightest people who have ever lived, hopefully presented to you by some pretty bright professors. You do not have strong beliefs until you have tested and defended those beliefs.

May I suggest that while you learn to think in college you also prepare for a specific job? I came out of school with a degree in English Literature. A BA in EngLit and $2.00 will get you a cupa coffee. I found that I wanted to get married after college and I can tell you that going back to school the get a saleable education while working at a menial job to support a family is not fun. ( I will never regret the EngLit course load though. I have read all of Shakespear. He remains the finest writer ever to write in English.)

Going to college just to develop "critical facilities" sure seems like a waste of money when you could better develop critical thinking and worldview from books.

[BillyBob]

Actually, some colleges do teach home economics, but if I choose to learn how to cook, I would go to culinary school so that learn use it at home and market it as a business. One particular kind of cooking I would be interested in would be the Mediterranean cuisine. It's exotic and from what I read is very good for you. I just love hummus. :Servent:


Ummmm.......a word of advice from your Uncle BillyBob. If you want to have any chance of getting a man, forget the hummus and learn how to grill a nice, thick steak. Oh, and when he rings that bell next to the Lazy Boy, bring him a beer.

[anna]

Ummmm.......a word of advice from your Uncle BillyBob. If you want to have any chance of getting a man, forget the hummus and learn how to grill a nice, thick steak. Oh, and when he rings that bell next to the Lazy Boy, bring him a beer.

I guess thats why children learn to call their dad's Santa Clause, because of the big pot belly...but I love having me a big fat jucy stacke,myself which is unfortunate because women have to be more concerned about health then men do since we get sicker often...besides there are men who whine and complain about how their wives cooked the things they wanted and subsequently they (the men) have health problems because they didn't listen to their wives sound advice, but having their own weight problems doesn't keep them form critizing other people for the same problems they have. If getting a man means dealing with a whining hyprocrite who is wise in his own eyes, then I would prefer living alone.

[The Berean]

Okay I retract the statement partially and it was to be understood in the context of the rest of my post. What I meant was "vast array of knowledge" is available and much of it is useful in various fields such as business. I did state previously that if my kid wanted to be a doctor he would need to go to College. I have a friend who apprenticed as an engineer and eventually worked on an optics application for the Apache helicopter. I bet you can apprentice as a homebuilder and fill in the blanks with Google.

I've met lots of awesome homebuilders that work with fiberglass, carbon fiber, have mills and lathes at home. Those guy are awesome. I love talking to them becasue I can learn things that can help me be a better engineer. Yes, Google has vast information but knowing how to apply that information is the main skill one learns from college, at leasting in engineering.

[The Berean]

Cool.. My dad is an aerospace engineer. He is the one who encouraged me to study computer science since I could understand most of what he says. He loves talking shop about transducers and locks-rich fuel and all kinds of other things you don't hear in everyday conversations. I guess that is why I like being around people who say things I don't understand because I like trying to figure out what they are saying.
Does your dad working with propulsion systems?

[BillyBob]

I guess thats why children learn to call their dad's Santa Clause, because of the big pot belly...but I love having me a big fat jucy stacke,myself which is unfortunate because women have to be more concerned about health then men do since we get sicker often...besides there are men who whine and complain about how their wives cooked the things they wanted and subsequently they (the men) have health problems because they didn't listen to their wives sound advice,

Translation: Nagging.


but having their own weight problems doesn't keep them form critizing other people for the same problems they have. If getting a man means dealing with a whining hyprocrite who is wise in his own eyes, then I would prefer living alone.

Sounds like you are off to a good start....

[CRASH]

For most women, not all, but most, they face a major dilemma when they want to have children. They want to be home with their children but it is hard to give up the career when they have invested so much time and money into college, the job and they have built a lifestyle based on 2 incomes.

[anna]

Does your dad working with propulsion systems?

I'll have to ask him specifically. Whenever I ask him what he does, he tells me that he tests rocket fuel engines and primarily works more on the softeware aspect then the hardware. I jokingly refer to my dad as the man who pushes buttons and writes instructions :chuckle:

[anna]

For most women, not all, but most, they face a major dilemma when they want to have children. They want to be home with their children but it is hard to give up the career when they have invested so much time and money into college, the job and they have built a lifestyle based on 2 incomes.

Yeah..I can see how easy it is to fall into that mindset. I come from a family where both parents worked in high paying jobs, so I had alot of stuff that others didn't have, but I didn't have a real stable family life. I also was raised on the idea that you had to go to college and that hard work was necessary.

I definately don't come from a line of slackers. Everybody in my family works and works really hard which is something I can be proud about. I'm sure that living on one salary would be an adjustment for me, but I doubt that I would miss all the stuff. Often times when I think of buying something, I can hear my dad's voice saying "what do you need that for" which is generally why I wear the same set of shirts and slacks each week and wear my shoes out till I can see the scuff marks and roll-step markings influenced by the days when I was in JROTC.
:)

[anna]

Translation: Nagging.



Sounds like you are off to a good start....

thank you

[Shalom]

For most women, not all, but most, they face a major dilemma when they want to have children. They want to be home with their children but it is hard to give up the career when they have invested so much time and money into college, the job and they have built a lifestyle based on 2 incomes.

Now that is definatley the truth....

I have seen many girls (lots of my friends) do this. I have one girlfriend who makes goobes (is that a real word?)of money as a realestate agent, so when she and her husband have children, the plan is that he will stay home with the kids not her. That would personally be so hard for me to leave my babies. I am glad I stayed home with my kids at least until they were in the school that we love so much for full time. That is why earlier I was saying Anna that you want to think about your future plans real carefully before you make your desicion. Being a stay at home wife/Mommy is the most wonderful job you can have. I got married young and had my first baby right away and then did the college thing afterwards. I took night classes after my kids were in bed most of the time, plus my husband really enjoyed his night out with the kids on the one night per week I had college classes for a few hours.

[CRASH]

..:thumb: :thumb:..:thumb::thumb:

[anna]

Does your dad working with propulsion systems?

Yes, he does.

[anna]

Now that is definatley the truth....

I have seen many girls (lots of my friends) do this. I have one girlfriend who makes goobes (is that a real word?)of money as a realestate agent, so when she and her husband have children, the plan is that he will stay home with the kids not her. That would personally be so hard for me to leave my babies. I am glad I stayed home with my kids at least until they were in the school that we love so much for full time. That is why earlier I was saying Anna that you want to think about your future plans real carefully before you make your desicion. Being a stay at home wife/Mommy is the most wonderful job you can have. I got married young and had my first baby right away and then did the college thing afterwards. I took night classes after my kids were in bed most of the time, plus my husband really enjoyed his night out with the kids on the one night per week I had college classes for a few hours.

I think that its neat that it's working out for you. It's good to know that for some people it can all work out. :thumb:

Decisions..decisions..lots of decisions to make :eek:

[Shalom]

Anna I will pray for God to help you with your desicion. Thats more important then any of the advice or opinions given here is to include God while making these important desicions. I know you know this and have already said this in a few different ways. :D

[anna]

Anna I will pray for God to help you with your desicion. Thats more important then any of the advice or opinions given here is to include God while making these important desicions. I know you know this and have already said this in a few different ways. :D

Thank you. I appreciate that. :angel:

[Sealeaf]

Going to college just to develop "critical facilities" sure seems like a waste of money when you could better develop critical thinking and worldview from books.
Not my opinion Christine. I was told that by the authors of "Womens Ways Of Knowing" at a daylong seminar they presented some years ago. They are philosophers who were working on the way people judge something to be true. Their book came to be when they noticed that their students,. at a major women's college, gave mostly uncodable answers when they gave them a test developed by a collegue at harvard. The standards of his test had been developed from the responses of a male student body. Since it was obvious that their students were quite able to think clearly, there was something wrong with the standards. They put together a test of how people deal with information and what they accept as truth. It was in the form of a structured interview. They then tested women in all walks of life from the illiterate and poverty stricken to the leaders in education, medicine and politics.
The development of the ablity to extract objective truth from a mass of data and conflicting opinions was what they identified as the primary function of post high school education. I would add, from my own observation, that professionals who have been educated in a highly techical field like medicine or engineering have these skills but they are restricted to their area of expertise. Outside their fields they are shockingly less competent.

[anna]

Not my opinion Christine. I was told that by the authors of "Womens Ways Of Knowing" at a daylong seminar they presented some years ago. They are philosophers who were working on the way people judge something to be true. Their book came to be when they noticed that their students,. at a major women's college, gave mostly uncodable answers when they gave them a test developed by a collegue at harvard. The standards of his test had been developed from the responses of a male student body. Since it was obvious that their students were quite able to think clearly, there was something wrong with the standards. They put together a test of how people deal with information and what they accept as truth. It was in the form of a structured interview. They then tested women in all walks of life from the illiterate and poverty stricken to the leaders in education, medicine and politics.
The development of the ablity to extract objective truth from a mass of data and conflicting opinions was what they identified as the primary function of post high school education. I would add, from my own observation, that professionals who have been educated in a highly techical field like medicine or engineering have these skills but they are restricted to their area of expertise. Outside their fields they are shockingly less competent.

That's interesting. I am amazed when I talk to my parents and while I respect both of them for being hard workers and good at what they do, I find somehow their thinking changes when they are outside their area of expertise.

My mother is a nurse; My father is an engineer. Both seem to be more educated then the average person, but not geniuses.My father is not a Christian yet in some ways his thinking is similiar to mine yet not completely. My mother is a Christian but her thinking is very different from mine yet somewhere there is a connection.

I am not sure if this makes any sence and I don't claim to be the most logical or well educated or what have you, but there seems to be a lack of unified thinking or body of knowlege (is that a word ?) or something that connects all the different areas of study or skills together so that the individual has a more fully developed way of thinking. Maybe it has something to do with the idea of specialization. Each person gets specialized knowlege instead of a more rounded education that I have read comes from reading Roman and Greek Literature as well as rigours study in the math and sciences and mastery of foreign languages.

I am just throwing something out here... :confused: :think:

[themuzicman]

Women should definately go to college. It's a great place to get your MRS degree.. *snicker*

[Lucky]

I have seen many girls (lots of my friends) do this. I have one girlfriend who makes goobes (is that a real word?)of money as a realestate agent, so when she and her husband have children, the plan is that he will stay home with the kids not her.
It makes me wonder, is the future of the American economy designed for success for women? (Does that make sense?) I think I've heard somewhere that we're going from the Information Age to the Service Age. And it seems like with service, i.e. customer service, women have the advantage of having a nicer face and personality to deal with. I mean, based on their "help meet" nature, they're designed to be good servants, er, customer service folks.

Oh, and it's gobs.

[anna]

It makes me wonder, is the future of the American economy designed for success for women? (Does that make sense?) I think I've heard somewhere that we're going from the Information Age to the Service Age. And it seems like with service, i.e. customer service, women have the advantage of having a nicer face and personality to deal with. I mean, based on their "help meet" nature, they're designed to be good servants, er, customer service folks.

Oh, and it's gobs.

It makes sence to me. We have women who organize peoples homes for them, women who provide day care, personal coaches etc.. Who knows maybe we will have governesses since the schools are really getting bad. Instead of going to public school or a private school maybe some of the well- to- do folks will hire someone to raise and teach their kids for them.

[Sealeaf]

That's interesting. I am amazed when I talk to my parents and while I respect both of them for being hard workers and good at what they do, I find somehow their thinking changes when they are outside their area of expertise.

My mother is a nurse; My father is an engineer. Both seem to be more educated then the average person, but not geniuses.My father is not a Christian yet in some ways his thinking is similiar to mine yet not completely. My mother is a Christian but her thinking is very different from mine yet somewhere there is a connection.

I am not sure if this makes any sence and I don't claim to be the most logical or well educated or what have you, but there seems to be a lack of unified thinking or body of knowlege (is that a word ?) or something that connects all the different areas of study or skills together so that the individual has a more fully developed way of thinking. Maybe it has something to do with the idea of specialization. Each person gets specialized knowlege instead of a more rounded education that I have read comes from reading Roman and Greek Literature as well as rigours study in the math and sciences and mastery of foreign languages.

I am just throwing something out here... :confused: :think:If I were to have my choice it would be for everyone to have a liberal arts education. That's where you get that broad knowledge base. That will not make everyone agree with eachother of course. In any case the needs of the modern world are such that we need specialists and they simply don't have time to get a broad lib art education. Instead we just need to be aware that expertise in one area does not mean experise in all areas. Particularly expertise does not mean moral excellence. Not everyone who goes to college learns to do critical thinking, even in a specialized field. It is possible to go through the motions but not get the idea.

[anna]

If I were to have my choice it would be for everyone to have a liberal arts education. That's where you get that broad knowledge base. That will not make everyone agree with eachother of course. In any case the needs of the modern world are such that we need specialists and they simply don't have time to get a broad lib art education. Instead we just need to be aware that expertise in one area does not mean experise in all areas. Particularly expertise does not mean moral excellence. Not everyone who goes to college learns to do critical thinking, even in a specialized field. It is possible to go through the motions but not get the idea.

I often think that Liberal arts is the ticket to broad knowledge, but it is difficult to learn or endure these classes because alot of the literature I've read and the assignments I had to do fostered rebellion against Biblical principles. Often times the professor would make observations about the text that could not be argued based on the whole text. They would purposely read too much into things to subtly promote anti-Christian views. I know though it is important to try to undertand different cultures so that I could be more effective in communicating with different people wheter I am trying to ask a simple question to work with them on some project or wheter I am giving them a reason why I believe the things I believe.

True. No two people think alike even if you put them in the same circumstances and give them the same education. Time is definately a factor and knowledge doesn't lead us to wisdom ( aka humility, which is an attitude that doesn't come from age and experience but is a choice that any person of any age could make ) If anything the little knowledge we do know often tempts us to be arrogant.

I think most people just go to college to get a piece of paper because you learn very early on that going to school is just a game or something to endure because you learn that Life is meaningless because God either doesn't exist or isn't really someone who cares enough to be involved in the lives of humans plus you spend most of your time with the same age group which makes it difficult to know how to talk to different people and learn how to be kind and mature instead of cruel and shallow.

:think:

[beefalobilly]

If the woman wants to become a successful wife and mother, then going to college is not a good idea. If she wants take on Adam's curse, then college will most likely be quite beneficial.
you're a fool. my mom went to college and I couldn't have asked for a better mother :loser:

[Poly]

That's very true. While I'm just working on pre-nursing courses right now, I'll probably enroll in a diploma program and have just as many job opportunities as someone with a 4 year degree in nursing. However, since I want to be a nurse-midwife, eventually I'll have to get a 4 year, but this way, I won't have to go into debt to get it. :D

Christine, I'm curious. I know that you were homeschooled and it always sounded as if it was very successful for you. You seem to really advocate it so I assume you plan on homeschooling your kids as well. Do you not worry that by working as a nurse, you might have a hard time effectively homeschooling your kids at the same time?

[firechyld]

Crash, it's sounding a little like you think it's a good idea for a woman to rush into marriage. I find that a little at odds with your statement that your daughters will enter into arranged marriages. Personally, I think anna has the right idea with waiting for the right man and for her to be fully ready for marriage and motherhood.

Anna, you should also remember that it's quite OK to go to university for the simple reason that you like what you are studying. My degree is essentially useless in terms of career, and while I am contemplating changing it to something with a little more real world application, I wouldn't give back the years I've spent studying something because I loved it. It enriches you as a person and enhances skills you wouldn't think it focussed on, as well as your knowledge of the area you're studying.

I mean... obviously if you take a business management degree, you're looking at career. But teaching or computer science... it's something that enhances your skills AND makes you employable AND gives you the potential to work out of home. I think you have some pretty good ideas on what you want to do, and they seem well thought out and rationalised. I say go with what you think is right for you.

[Christine]

Christine, I'm curious. I know that you were homeschooled and it always sounded as if it was very successful for you. You seem to really advocate it so I assume you plan on homeschooling your kids as well. Do you not worry that by working as a nurse, you might have a hard time effectively homeschooling your kids at the same time?
Hi Poly, you are correct in assuming that I plan on homeschooling my future children. How does that fit in with a career? I'm not sure. My mother was also a nurse, but gave it up to be a stay-at-home mom. If I have a big family, I doubt I'd be working, but if I just had a few children (or while I just had the first few), I might consider working, probably just part-time. Whatever I decide, will have to be a joint decision between my future husband and I and will depend on many factors. One thing I know is with the time needed for homeschooling, it's extremely doubtful I'd work full-time. :)

[Poly]

Hi Poly, you are correct in assuming that I plan on homeschooling my future children. How does that fit in with a career? I'm not sure. My mother was also a nurse, but gave it up to be a stay-at-home mom. If I have a big family, I doubt I'd be working, but if I just had a few children (or while I just had the first few), I might consider working, probably just part-time. Whatever I decide, will have to be a joint decision between my future husband and I and will depend on many factors. One thing I know is with the time needed for homeschooling, it's extremely doubtful I'd work full-time. :)

:up:

[No Worries]

On this concept of homeschooling how does anyone think they can teach a child everything they need know to give it choices. Its depriving a child.

[Jukia]

You know, I dont have any particular ax to grind against home schooling. From everything I have seen, most of the kids turn out pretty well. It clearly shows a great deal of parental interest, which, despite the comments that are often made on this board against public schooling, is the main reason public school students do not do well (that from my public school teaching wife). However, the initial question, "Should women go to college?" is just dumb. I have 2 grown daughters, one an M.D. and one a Ph.D. Can't imagine they would have been able to get to where they are without college.

[ebenz47037]

On this concept of homeschooling how does anyone think they can teach a child everything they need know to give it choices. Its depriving a child.

How is homeschooling depriving a child?

[No Worries]

I just can't understand how a parent can teach all subjects. I aced French at school getting an A. It was my worst subject. I could never teach a child how to speak French. Sure if I study I can get myself to that level if I have help but a teacher draws on more information than just that which is taught. To teach someone to an A grade I'd have to study much further past that level or spend alot longer with that kid. At Math and sciences I was an A grade student too but there were some kids that just weren't mathematically inclined, teaching these kids maths and sciences would be a nightmare if I didn't have a natural inclination to the sciences. I have a degree in history but ask me to teach someone geology and I'd be absolutely lost, I couldn't do it because I chose to study history and as it turned out when I had to choose my subjects it was either geography or history. As a result my geology which is a later spin off of geography is poor.

I don't understand how one parent can teach all classes to a good level. Social skills must take an absolute battering as well. Clearly with 2 bright daughters but by the sounds of it both have taken different tracks through choice and ability. My brother works with computers and programming, its what he's good at. He only knew that because the choice was available to him to find out.

How if you homeschool do you find out if your child is a natural at math or acting or music or language. They're forever held back by one's own ability to teach that subject.

I completely agree with Jukia.

[bob b]

I just can't understand how a parent can teach all subjects. I aced French at school getting an A. It was my worst subject. I could never teach a child how to speak French. Sure if I study I can get myself to that level if I have help but a teacher draws on more information than just that which is taught. To teach someone to an A grade I'd have to study much further past that level or spend alot longer with that kid. At Math and sciences I was an A grade student too but there were some kids that just weren't mathematically inclined, teaching these kids maths and sciences would be a nightmare if I didn't have a natural inclination to the sciences. I have a degree in history but ask me to teach someone geology and I'd be absolutely lost, I couldn't do it because I chose to study history and as it turned out when I had to choose my subjects it was either geography or history. As a result my geology which is a later spin off of geography is poor.

I don't understand how one parent can teach all classes to a good level. Social skills must take an absolute battering as well. Clearly with 2 bright daughters but by the sounds of it both have taken different tracks through choice and ability. My brother works with computers and programming, its what he's good at. He only knew that because the choice was available to him to find out.

How if you homeschool do you find out if your child is a natural at math or acting or music or language. They're forever held back by one's own ability to teach that subject.

I completely agree with Jukia.

It has been my belief that home schooled kids do better at learning primarily because they learn at an early age how to learn. This does not mean that a good teacher wouldn't be helpful at times to explain difficult points, but at least up to High School most parents are fully capable of filling this role.

A love of reading is also a critical factor. I'm not sure exactly how this comes about, but one thing seems obvious, a home that doesn't have books in it is one where the kids do not seem to have a love of reading.

It's tough to be a good student if you don't like to read.

[ebenz47037]

I just can't understand how a parent can teach all subjects. I aced French at school getting an A. It was my worst subject. I could never teach a child how to speak French. Sure if I study I can get myself to that level if I have help but a teacher draws on more information than just that which is taught. To teach someone to an A grade I'd have to study much further past that level or spend alot longer with that kid. At Math and sciences I was an A grade student too but there were some kids that just weren't mathematically inclined, teaching these kids maths and sciences would be a nightmare if I didn't have a natural inclination to the sciences. I have a degree in history but ask me to teach someone geology and I'd be absolutely lost, I couldn't do it because I chose to study history and as it turned out when I had to choose my subjects it was either geography or history. As a result my geology which is a later spin off of geography is poor.

I don't understand how one parent can teach all classes to a good level. Social skills must take an absolute battering as well. Clearly with 2 bright daughters but by the sounds of it both have taken different tracks through choice and ability. My brother works with computers and programming, its what he's good at. He only knew that because the choice was available to him to find out.

How if you homeschool do you find out if your child is a natural at math or acting or music or language. They're forever held back by one's own ability to teach that subject.

I completely agree with Jukia.

Different parents do different things. People are gifted at different things, as well. Me? I'm a math/history/music nut with a photographic memory. I've had no problems teahing my daughter, so far. And, when she wanted to learn something that I don't know, I hired someone to do it for me.

As far as socialization, that's a non-worry for me and most homeschooling parents I know. Every homeschooled child I've ever met socializes with all age groups, instead of just their own ages. In other words, my daughter has her teenage friends. But, she also loves to talk to the old men and women in the nursing homes about the "good ole days" and play with the little kids in the church nursery.

By the way, I started homeschooling at the suggestion of a publi