Legislators want ban on RU486

[cattyfan]

in the news:

Rep. Bartlett Wins Support to Ban Abortion Pill
Wednesday, February 01, 2006
By Elissa Petruzzi

WASHINGTON — Not only is the abortion pill RU-486 killing babies, Maryland Rep. Roscoe Bartlett said Wednesday, it's now known to kill their mothers and should be banned immediately.

Bartlett held a news conference Wednesday to boost passage of his legislation, commonly known as "Holly's Law," which calls for the Food and Drug Administration's suspension of RU-486.

"I don't want it on the market," the pro-life Republican said. "We need to be responsible. We need to move on this. This is a very modest bill."

The bill has 79 other co-sponsors, including Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio.

"Too many girls have been lured into the masquerade that this is a quick-and-easy fix," she said. "Let's give it a vote."

Named after Holly Patterson, an 18-year-old California woman who died in 2003 after taking the drug, the bill is before the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. No hearings have been scheduled.

At least five women have died from taking the drug, which is used to terminate early pregnancies, since its approval in 2000, according to a New England Journal of Medicine article, although the precise number is disputed. More than 460,000 doses have been shipped from Danco Laboratories, the manufacturer of the drug, although it is not clear how many doses have actually been taken, according to the Journal.

Using these figures, the article, by Michael Greene of Harvard Medical School, puts the risk of death at less than one per 100,000.

Four of the deaths associated with RU-486 were caused by septic shock, an overwhelming bacterial infection that can decrease blood pressure and flow, according to the FDA. The other was attributed to an ectopic pregnancy, where the embryo is attached outside the uterus.

"The bacteria has also been found in pregnant women and women who have had medical abortions," said Jennifer Morcone, spokeswoman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "There are a lot of scientific questions."

Bill proponents insist that regardless of the cause of death, the drug is dangerous to expectant mothers.

"It is undeniable that these women were healthy before the use of (RU-486) and became very sick or died shortly after its use," wrote Margaret Gary and Donna Harrison, of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, in The Annals of Pharmacotherapy.

The drug currently has a "black box" label, which calls specific attention to the possible serious consequences of the drug.

"It's one of the more serious warnings, meant to highlight the risks," said Susan Cruzan, spokeswoman for the FDA.

Bartlett also called for a law requiring parental notification, and cited the same Holly Patterson case, even though at age 18, she would have been considered an adult at the time she sought the abortion drug.

"Her parents didn't know she was pregnant until she was in the hospital and dying," he said. "That begs for another law on notification."

(Capital News Service contributed to this report.)

[One Eyed Jack]

I'm all for banning RU-486 because it kills babies, but I don't find myself particularly bothered by the fact that it might kill the mother who takes it.

[ebenz47037]

I'm all for banning RU-486 because it kills babies, but I don't find myself particularly bothered by the fact that it might kill the mother who takes it.

:BRAVO: I agree with you, Jack.

[On Fire]

Ban it.

[Granite]

RU-486's dangers are well-documented and it should be banned.:cheers:

[firechyld]

The risk factor for dangerous side effects are significantly less than that of viagra.

[Mr. 5020]

The risk factor for dangerous side effects are significantly less than that of viagra.I'm okay with banning both of them.

[cattyfan]

I'm okay with banning both of them.


Me, too.

[Mr. 5020]

Me, too.:thumb:

[OlDove]

How do you feel about plan-B?

[kmoney]

I'm okay with banning both of them.
Ok, at the risk of all the jokes that may be thrown at me....

Why would you ban viagra?

[Mr. 5020]

How do you feel about plan-B?Making sex illegal for unmarried people?

[Mr. 5020]

Ok, at the risk of all the jokes that may be thrown at me....

Why would you ban viagra?As has been pointed out already, it is just as dangerous as RU486.

By the way, I've already told you to stop taking it kmoney.

[kmoney]

As has been pointed out already, it is just as dangerous as RU486.
:doh: ok....

By the way, I've already told you to stop taking it kmoney.
:noid:

[OlDove]

Making sex illegal for unmarried people?
No, this plan B (http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/planB/planBQandA.htm)

[Mr. 5020]

No, this plan B (http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/planB/planBQandA.htm)Here is a quote from that page:
3. How does Plan B work?

Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation). If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work.
I wish Crow was here, but it seems like that would basically cause the same symptoms as an ovarian cyst, which, from what I understand, is extremely painful.

[OlDove]

Here is a quote from that page:
3. How does Plan B work?

Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation). If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work.
I wish Crow was here, but it seems like that would basically cause the same symptoms as an ovarian cyst, which, from what I understand, is extremely painful.
Whats in 9 months after getting raped?

[Mr. 5020]

Whats in 9 months after getting raped?Good point. I was just noting the possible long-lasting pain that would happen (if I understand the situation correctly).

[OlDove]

Good point. I was just noting the possible long-lasting pain that would happen (if I understand the situation correctly).
Is it an abortion pill? Is it like you ..........using a raincoat on a rainy day. ......... the rain coat leaked. Can the MRS. use plan B?

[Mr. 5020]

Is it an abortion pill? Is it like you ..........using a raincoat on a rainy day. ......... the rain coat leaked. Can the MRS. use plan B?Seems that way...kind of like a "morning after" pill, but it seems like you can use it three or four mornings after, too.

[OlDove]

Seems that way...kind of like a "morning after" pill, but it seems like you can use it three or four mornings after, too.
So, If I am raped, may I use plan Bl? If the rain coat fails, may I use plan B?If a man decides I must have his child, and he lies about ............exiting... I must have a child?

[Mr. 5020]

So, If I am raped, may I use plan Bl? If the rain coat fails, may I use plan B?If a man decides I must have his child, and he lies about ............exiting... I must have a child?Sounds like it going to be prescription only.

[OlDove]

Sounds like it going to be prescription only.
Because?

G'Nite Tol

[Mr. 5020]

Because?The FDA said so.
G'Nite TolGood night. :)

[OlDove]

The FDA said so.


It's more a question of why the FDA said so. Bush made sure that Plan B would be looked upon as an abortion, but because you are a man, please see my next reply.

[OlDove]

To all the men of TOL. Are good Christian men allowed to use their imagination? If so, please continue.

Put yourself in the time frame of looking for a partner to marry. You could be at a church gathering or at a bar. You meet an interesting new person. You're having a nice time getting to know them, and that's the last thing you remember. You wake up the next morning in your bed alone and find out someone had sex with you. Can any of you allow yourselves to imagine this feeling? Now tell me, what are you going to do? Do you want to be pregnant because some clown gave you the date rape drug? Explain to me how you catching your little soldiers in a rubber bag or using proper exit strategy, (letting your little soldier rain where the rain ain't needed), somehow isn't an abortion, but my ability to go get a Plan B pill after someone stupidly lets their soldier go where it shouldn't, is looked upon as me getting an abortion? But then if you're using your imagination properly, you must imagine YOU are waking up. YOU have been violated and YOU might be pregnant. Is it because a man did it, it's God's will you may be pregnant? Remember you may have just got knocked up by some guy who took advantage of you. Tell me your plans. Would you like to go see the pharmacist without first needing a doctor's appointment to explain what happened to you?

[Mr. 5020]

To all the men of TOL. Are good Christian men allowed to use their imagination? If so, please continue.

Put yourself in the time frame of looking for a partner to marry. You could be at a church gathering or at a bar. You meet an interesting new person. You're having a nice time getting to know them, and that's the last thing you remember. You wake up the next morning in your bed alone and find out someone had sex with you. Can any of you allow yourselves to imagine this feeling? Now tell me, what are you going to do? Do you want to be pregnant because some clown gave you the date rape drug? Explain to me how you catching your little soldiers in a rubber bag or using proper exit strategy, (letting your little soldier rain where the rain ain't needed), somehow isn't an abortion, but my ability to go get a Plan B pill after someone stupidly lets their soldier go where it shouldn't, is looked upon as me getting an abortion? But then if you're using your imagination properly, you must imagine YOU are waking up. YOU have been violated and YOU might be pregnant. Is it because a man did it, it's God's will you may be pregnant? Remember you may have just got knocked up by some guy who took advantage of you. Tell me your plans. Would you like to go see the pharmacist without first needing a doctor's appointment to explain what happened to you?I've never seen the "morning after" pill as an abortion.

[Sozo]

OlDove... you are a deranged little pervert aren't you?

[Sozo]

I've never seen the "morning after" pill as an abortion.It is.

[Mr. 5020]

It is.Okie-dokie.

My understanding was that life started at conception (when the fertilized egg entered the womb). If something stopped that from happening, then it was never life.

Am I missing something? :5020:

[Granite]

RU-486 is a chemical abortion and the morning after pill is not. I don't know why you people insist on equalizing them.

[Sozo]

Okie-dokie.

My understanding was that life started at conception (when the fertilized egg entered the womb). If something stopped that from happening, then it was never life.

Am I missing something? :5020:


Yes, conception is a fertilized egg. The pill can stop implantation which murders the child.

The Pill has three mechanisms of action which can easily be looked up in the Physician's Desk Reference.
1) Sometimes, the Pill suppresses ovulation. When this happens, an egg is not released and conception cannot occur. (It's important to read on and find out about the high rates of breakthrough ovulation. When ovulation is not suppressed, pregnancy can occur.)
2) The Pill also works to thicken the woman's cervical mucus which can "restrict" sperm from moving up the reproductive tract toward the egg.
3) One way the Pill causes early abortions is that it interfers with the flexing motions and the cilia movement of the fallopian tubes. These changes slow the transportation of newly conceived child from the fallopian tubes to the womb. Unfortunately, many small babies starve to death in the fallopian tubes because chemicals caused changes that prevented them from reaching the womb in time to be nourished.
4) Another way the Pill causes early abortions: If your tiny baby survives the ride down the fallopian tube to your womb, the Pill will almost always cause the endometrium (the lining of your uterus) to reject your child. Chemical reactions often cause the lining of your womb to become thin, shriveled and unable to support implantation of your newly conceived child.
This means that in almost every case, your new child will not be able to attach to the wall of your womb where he or she would normally live, grow and receive nourishment for 9 months. This means your tiny baby will starve to death and his or her remains will be passed along in your next bleeding cycle. (The "Study of Abortion Deaths Commission" estimates that this happens in women in America who use the Pill approximately 1 to 4 million times each year.)
The chemicals that cause these early abortions are called abortifacients which is the medical term for any chemical agent that causes an abortion.


Any Christian that uses any Pill, IUD, Norplant, Depo-Provera, for birth control is either a knowingly or unknowingly muderer of children.

[On Fire]

RU-486 is a chemical abortion and the morning after pill is not. I don't know why you people insist on equalizing them.
They bring about the same results. I don't know why YOU people think ginving murder cute names and numbers is fooling anyone.

[Granite]

They bring about the same results. I don't know why YOU people think ginving murder cute names and numbers is fooling anyone.

By that rationale a D&C and a condom do the same thing, too.

[Sozo]

RU-486 is a chemical abortion and the morning after pill is not. I don't know why you people insist on equalizing them.
That is false. The morning after pill is simply the same thing as the Pill with higher doses of oestrogen and progesterone. They still cause chemical abortions. Pregnancy is NOT implantation.

[On Fire]

By that rationale a D&C and a condom do the same thing, too.
:nono:

[Sozo]

By that rationale a D&C and a condom do the same thing, too.You do understand what conception is, right?

[Granite]

You do understand what conception is, right?

:yawn:

I do, and I also understand what goes where, in case you were gonna ask.

[Sozo]

:yawn:

I do, and I also understand what goes where, in case you were gonna ask.

Has conception taken place with a condom*?

Abortion is the extermination of a fertilized egg through a concious willfull decision, not a natual result of a physical rejection of the body (miscarriage).





* Note... I am against all forms of birth control and do not advocate the use of a condom. Also, it is possible to become pregnant when a condom is used.

[Jukia]

Aside from the issue that cranks up many here, should not one of the issues be the % of women who die in connection with RU-486 use as opposed to the % who die in connection with continuing a pregnancy?
My guess is that this is just another band wagon for the right wing politicians to jump on and wring their hands about.

[Sozo]

Aside from the issue that cranks up many here, should not one of the issues be the % of women who die in connection with RU-486 use as opposed to the % who die in connection with continuing a pregnancy?
My guess is that this is just another band wagon for the right wing politicians to jump on and wring their hands about.
What is your point?

[Jukia]

Okie-dokie.

My understanding was that life started at conception (when the fertilized egg entered the womb). If something stopped that from happening, then it was never life.

Am I missing something? :5020:

I think conception normally takes place in the Fallopian tube. The fertilized egg then travels down the Fallopian tube to the uterus where it then has a chance to get implanted. According to the definitions being uses here it appears to be human life at the instant of conception.

[OlDove]

Yes, conception is a fertilized egg. The pill can stop implantation which murders the child.

The Pill has three mechanisms of action which can easily be looked up in the Physician's Desk Reference.
1) Sometimes, the Pill suppresses ovulation. When this happens, an egg is not released and conception cannot occur. (It's important to read on and find out about the high rates of breakthrough ovulation. When ovulation is not suppressed, pregnancy can occur.)
2) The Pill also works to thicken the woman's cervical mucus which can "restrict" sperm from moving up the reproductive tract toward the egg.
3) One way the Pill causes early abortions is that it interfers with the flexing motions and the cilia movement of the fallopian tubes. These changes slow the transportation of newly conceived child from the fallopian tubes to the womb. Unfortunately, many small babies starve to death in the fallopian tubes because chemicals caused changes that prevented them from reaching the womb in time to be nourished.
4) Another way the Pill causes early abortions: If your tiny baby survives the ride down the fallopian tube to your womb, the Pill will almost always cause the endometrium (the lining of your uterus) to reject your child. Chemical reactions often cause the lining of your womb to become thin, shriveled and unable to support implantation of your newly conceived child.
This means that in almost every case, your new child will not be able to attach to the wall of your womb where he or she would normally live, grow and receive nourishment for 9 months. This means your tiny baby will starve to death and his or her remains will be passed along in your next bleeding cycle. (The "Study of Abortion Deaths Commission" estimates that this happens in women in America who use the Pill approximately 1 to 4 million times each year.)
The chemicals that cause these early abortions are called abortifacients which is the medical term for any chemical agent that causes an abortion.


Any Christian that uses any Pill, IUD, Norplant, Depo-Provera, for birth control is either a knowingly or unknowingly muderer of children.Explain to me how you catching your little soldiers in a rubber bag or using proper exit strategy, (letting your little soldier rain where the rain ain't needed), somehow isn't an abortion, but my ability to go get a Plan B pill after someone stupidly lets their soldier go where it shouldn't, is looked upon as me getting an abortion?

[Jukia]

What is your point?
My point is that if you are hanging your hat on the death of women who take the drug you need to compare the incidence of death or other major side effects with the incidence of those in pregnancies that go further as well. I recognize the fact that many here oppose this drug for reasons in addition to any deaths it may cause in the women taking it but it seems disingenuous to me to use deaths of those taking it as a rallying cry if the rate is less than what occurs in pregnancy (I have no idea by the way of what the numbers may be)

More importantly, this is likly to go nowhere other than to allow right wing politicians to get a few more in their base out to vote for them ala Terri Schiavo (although that was such a fiasco that it may have generated more votes against Frist, Delay, et al.)

[Jukia]

Is Sozo really the Pope???

[Granite]

Has conception taken place with a condom*?

Abortion is the extermination of a fertilized egg through a concious willfull decision, not a natual result of a physical rejection of the body (miscarriage).





* Note... I am against all forms of birth control and do not advocate the use of a condom. Also, it is possible to become pregnant when a condom is used.

Given the amount of kids you have this doesn't exactly surprise me.

Conception is prevented by all forms of birth control; the only thing setting apart the morning after pill is timing. No baby, no infant. No murder.

[Sozo]

Explain to me how you catching your little soldiers in a rubber bag or using proper exit strategy, (letting your little soldier rain where the rain ain't needed), somehow isn't an abortion, but my ability to go get a Plan B pill after someone stupidly lets their soldier go where it shouldn't, is looked upon as me getting an abortion?


If you abort a fertilized egg through a willful concious decision on your part, you are a premeditated murderer.

[Sozo]

Given the amount of kids you have this doesn't exactly surprise me.

Conception is prevented by all forms of birth control; the only thing setting apart the morning after pill is timing. No baby, no infant. No murder.

Preventing conception is not abortion. Preventing implantaion of a fertilized egg is. Because of breakthrough ovulation, eggs do get fertilized, and the morning after pill causes a chemical abortion by preventing implantation. The pills that are prescribed today, as opposed to those prescribed in the '60's, allow for a greater perecntage of breakthrough ovulation.

[Sozo]

Granite... the pill (or Morning After Pill) does not cause an abortion everytime, but it can and does happen. Taking the pill is simply a pregnancy insurance policy, for those people who want to murder their child in case it happens. It is an out of sight / out of mind alternative.

Those who use the pill have the same motive as those who have partial birth abortions...

They do not want a child, and they will resort to murder to prevent it.

[Granite]

Granite... the pill (or Morning After Pill) does not cause an abortion everytime, but it can and does happen. Taking the pill is simply a pregnancy insurance policy, for those people who want to murder their child in case it happens. It is an out of sight / out of mind alternative.

Those who use the pill have the same motive as those who have partial birth abortions...

They do not want a child, and they will resort to murder to prevent it.

The pill when used regularly as a form of birth control is just that: birth control. There's no murdering going on, Sozo, and I don't understand why you're so unwilling to understand that. Believe me, having been involved in a marriage that utilized the pill, it was the desire of neither party to share the motives of those who used partial birth abortion. You simply do not know what you're talking about.

[Sozo]

No, this plan B (http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/planB/planBQandA.htm)


From your link...

"Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation). If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work."

The part in bold is murder.

It also says...

"Emergency contraception is a method of preventing pregnancy to be used after a contraceptive fails"

This is telling you that if the contraceptive "failed", the egg has been fertilized, and you are pregnant. Plan B will then allow you to starve your child to death by preventing implantation.

[Sozo]

The pill when used regularly as a form of birth control is just that: birth control. There's no murdering going on, Sozo, and I don't understand why you're so unwilling to understand that. Believe me, having been involved in a marriage that utilized the pill, it was the desire of neither party to share the motives of those who used partial birth abortion. You simply do not know what you're talking about.

You are either a liar or a fool!

I just gave you the proof of breakthrough ovulation! Even the pro-abortionist admit that breakthrough ovulation happens quite often. You are simply ignorant of this subject.

You ALONE have created a lie that neither side believes or accepts.

I know exactly what I am talking about, and not even my enemies who promote the killing of babies would disagree. Only an idiot who doesn't know :PureX: about this subject, like yourself, would make the ludicrious statements you have made.

You weren't as pro-life as you thought you were when you were "claiming" to be a "christian", which you were also as uninformed and deceived about.

[Granite]

You are either a liar or a fool!

I just gave you the proof of breakthrough ovulation! Even the pro-abortionist admit that breakthrough ovulation happens quite often. You are simply ignorant of this subject.

You ALONE have created a lie that neither side believes or accepts.

I know exactly what I am talking about, and not even my enemies who promote the killing of babies would disagree. Only an idiot who doesn't know :PureX: about this subject, like yourself, would make the ludicrious statements you have made.

You weren't as pro-life as you thought you were when you were "claiming" to be a "christian", which you were also as uninformed and deceived about.

Isn't the first time and it won't be the last that you start foaming at the mouth and acting like a six year old.

It happens but there is no baby involved. I don't really know how else to spell this out. We're talking an egg. That's it. No baby. No infant. No heart beat. No brain activity. It's potential and nothing more. Nobody exists yet. As a Christian I can understand that you believe life begins at conception but I don't, so we're stalemated there.

[On Fire]

Conception is prevented by all forms of birth control; the only thing setting apart the morning after pill is timing. No baby, no infant. No murder.
This is the single-most idiotic thing I have EVER heard.

Can we at least set a few ground rules for sake of argument?

1. A couple has unprotected sex and the woman has ovulated.

2. It takes about 5 minutes for the fastest sperm to reach the fallopian tubes. http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5049,00.html

3. Fertilization can take place as soon as 5 minutes after ejaculation and for as long as 7 days after. http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/sperm-survive.html

4. Conception is defined as "formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization." Once conception has taken place there is no longer an "egg" and a "sperm". They have joined to form a zygote. http://www.answers.com/conception&r=67

5. The union of an egg and a sperm (conception/fertilization), forms a zygote. The instant the egg and sperm join and the cell is formed, a living, human life has been created.

6. Implantation starts 5-8 days after conception and is completed 9-10 days post-conception.

7. Doctors have any number of terms they use to refer to the developing baby: ovum, zygote, blastocyst, embryo, etc. None of them are as sophisticated as you or I but they are undeniably living, human organisms.

8. The "morning after pill" has two properties: one prevents ovulation and the other prevents implantation. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/morningafterpill.htm

9. Women cannot tell if fertilization/conception has taken place.

10. If a woman elects to take a "morning after pill" post-conception and successfully prevents the zygote from implanting, she has, in fact, killed her baby.

[ebenz47037]

Granite... the pill (or Morning After Pill) does not cause an abortion everytime, but it can and does happen. Taking the pill is simply a pregnancy insurance policy, for those people who want to murder their child in case it happens. It is an out of sight / out of mind alternative.

Those who use the pill have the same motive as those who have partial birth abortions...

They do not want a child, and they will resort to murder to prevent it.

Sozo, although I agree with you on the biggest part of the birth control/abortion issue, I have to point out that some women take b/c pills for reasons other than birth control. When I was younger, I had to take it for other reasons and I wasn't having sex. So, it had nothing to do with not wanting to get pregnant for me.

[Sozo]

Sozo, although I agree with you on the biggest part of the birth control/abortion issue, I have to point out that some women take b/c pills for reasons other than birth control. When I was younger, I had to take it for other reasons and I wasn't having sex. So, it had nothing to do with not wanting to get pregnant for me.


Who told you that you had to take the Pill? Did you have a disease?

[Mr. 5020]

Who told you that you had to take the Pill? Did you have a disease?My girlfriend has to take it for some sort of medical reason. Without giving out too many personal details, it has something to do with a miscarriage she had.

I guess I should not that my girlfriend and I are not, and never have been, sexually active.

[Turbo]

Here is a quote from that page:
[indent]3. How does Plan B work?

Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation). Translation: "Plan B" kills unborn children.

It is true that "Plan B works like other birth control pills" because all birth control pills prevent implantation when fertization does occur. However it is deceptive to call this "preventing pregnancy." To be pregnant (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pregnant) is to be "carrying developing offspring within the body." An offspring comes into existence the moment an egg is fertilized and its development begins immediately; it doesn't wait to be implanted in the womb and then suddenly come to life.

The birth control marketers are trying to redefine pregnancy as beginning at implantation rather than fertilization to obscure the truth that their products are in fact abortafacients. If pregnancy does not begin until the offspring is implanted in the womb, then there would be no such thing as an ectopic pregnancy.

[Mr. 5020]

Woah, it's :turbo:!

[Sozo]

Isn't the first time and it won't be the last that you start foaming at the mouth and acting like a six year old.

I tried to explain it to you as an adult, but since you were unable to understand the language, I came down to your level.

Not believeing that life begins at conception makes you pro-abortion (pro-murder) if you are willing to exterminate that life.

It is not a question of will you murder, but when.

[ebenz47037]

Who told you that you had to take the Pill? Did you have a disease?

My doctor. It was when I was 16. I had an inherited hormonal disorder that cleared up later in life.

[Turbo]

Like preganancy, conception is another word that hormonal "birth contol" pushers are attempting to redefine to mean "implantation" rather than "fertilization" in order to fool people into thinking that their products don't kill the unborn.

[Sozo]

My girlfriend has to take it for some sort of medical reason. Without giving out too many personal details, it has something to do with a miscarriage she had.

I guess I should not that my girlfriend and I are not, and never have been, sexually active.

As far as I know, most of the reasons that they are prescribed are to treat intense menses or acne, but there are other safer and natural ways to solve those issues.

Here are just a few of the possible side effects...

bacterial infections (because the pill weakens the immune system.)
pelvic inflammatory disease-an infection of the fallopian tubes that can cause sickness or sterility
infertility-unable to ever bear children
cervical cancer
ectopic pregnancy
shrinking of the womb (endometrial atrophy)
breast cancer
blood clots
birth defects in children conceived while women are on the pill
stroke
weight gain
irregular bleeding
heavy bleeding
abdominal pain
headaches
may contribute to the formation of gallstones and rare benign liver tumors

[Sozo]

My doctor. It was when I was 16. I had an inherited hormonal disorder that cleared up later in life.

Okay, I would need more details, but that is not what this thread is about, or the reasons that I am coming out against the Pill.

This is about it's use to make a conscious willful decision to exterminate a fertilized egg, and therefore murder a baby.

[Granite]

This is the single-most idiotic thing I have EVER heard.

Can we at least set a few ground rules for sake of argument?

1. A couple has unprotected sex and the woman has ovulated.

2. It takes about 5 minutes for the fastest sperm to reach the fallopian tubes. http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5049,00.html

3. Fertilization can take place as soon as 5 minutes after ejaculation and for as long as 7 days after. http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/sperm-survive.html

4. Conception is defined as "formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization." Once conception has taken place there is no longer an "egg" and a "sperm". They have joined to form a zygote. http://www.answers.com/conception&r=67

5. The union of an egg and a sperm (conception/fertilization), forms a zygote. The instant the egg and sperm join and the cell is formed, a living, human life has been created.

6. Implantation starts 5-8 days after conception and is completed 9-10 days post-conception.

7. Doctors have any number of terms they use to refer to the developing baby: ovum, zygote, blastocyst, embryo, etc. None of them are as sophisticated as you or I but they are undeniably living, human organisms.

8. The "morning after pill" has two properties: one prevents ovulation and the other prevents implantation. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/morningafterpill.htm

9. Women cannot tell if fertilization/conception has taken place.

10. If a woman elects to take a "morning after pill" post-conception and successfully prevents the zygote from implanting, she has, in fact, killed her baby.

A zygote is not a child. Sorry. We disagree.

[Sozo]

A zygote is not a child. Sorry. We disagree.

At least that is an honest answer.

[Mr. 5020]

My doctor. It was when I was 16. I had an inherited hormonal disorder that cleared up later in life.My sister had to take it temporarily for some sort of hormonal imbalance, too.

[ebenz47037]

Okay, I would need more details, but that is not what this thread is about, or the reasons that I am coming out against the Pill.

This is about it's use to make a conscious willful decision to exterminate a fertilized egg, and therefore murder a baby.

I agree with you on your opinion about birth control. I was just pointing out that not all women take the pill because they don't want a baby.

[ebenz47037]

As far as I know, most of the reasons that they are prescribed are to treat intense menses or acne, but there are other safer and natural ways to solve those issues.

Here are just a few of the possible side effects...

bacterial infections (because the pill weakens the immune system.)
pelvic inflammatory disease-an infection of the fallopian tubes that can cause sickness or sterility
infertility-unable to ever bear children
cervical cancer
ectopic pregnancy
shrinking of the womb (endometrial atrophy)
breast cancer
blood clots
birth defects in children conceived while women are on the pill
stroke
weight gain
irregular bleeding
heavy bleeding
abdominal pain
headaches
may contribute to the formation of gallstones and rare benign liver tumors

The side effects explain a lot to me, Sozo. It was 20 years ago when I started taking them (I was on them for about four years). Since then, I've had seven miscarriages, including one right after Steve passed away, and I've had a hard time getting pregnant (only talking about when I was married). I know what to look for if any of the others show up.

[OlDove]

If you abort a fertilized egg through a willful concious decision on your part, you are a premeditated murderer.
I'm not going to enter the age old debate of, if life starts at conception or when there is first blood. Since you seem to fully understand my position on Plan B being equal to you using a rubber, I want you to prove to me Biblically that God wants you to use a rubber at all. Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so?

Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirits are about to speak. Are they friendly spirits? I don't know, let's listen.

[Sozo]

I'm not going to enter the age old debate of, if life starts at conception or when there is first blood. Good, because you'd lose.Since you seem to fully understand my position on Plan B being equal to you using a rubber. Your "position" is self-interest. You would kill a baby to protect your freedom to do as you please. You are a godless female :dog:

[OlDove]

I want you to prove to me Biblically that God wants you to use a rubber at all. Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so?

Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirits are about to speak. Are they friendly spirits? I don't know, let's listen.

[Granite]

:think:

[Sozo]

I want you to prove to me Biblically that God wants you to use a rubber at all.


God doesn't want anyone to use a rubber. You are a pervert.

[OlDove]

Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so?

Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirits are about to speak. Are they friendly spirits? I don't know, let's listen.

[Mr. 5020]

I want you to prove to me Biblically that God wants you to use a rubber at all. Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so? :nono:

[Sozo]

Is coitus interuptous Biblical? You don't have a single interest in hearing anything the bible has to say. You are a #####.

[Granite]

:down: :nono:

Dude. That was completely uncalled for.

[Jukia]

Hey what happened to playing nicely together?

[OlDove]

You don't have a single interest in hearing anything the bible has to say. You are a #####.Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so?

Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirits are about to speak. Are they friendly spirits? I don't know, let's listen.

[Granite]

Answer Dove's questions or sit down and shut up. If you got cornered and can't or won't answer, leave the thread.

[Sozo]

Slut! Whore! Go to hell!

You have lost every right to hear anything I have to say on this subject.

[OlDove]

Slut! Whore! Go to hell!

You have lost every right to hear anything I have to say on this subject.Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirit HAS SPOKEN. Are they friendly spirits?

[Sozo]

Answer Dove's questions or sit down and shut up. If you got cornered and can't or won't answer, leave the thread.

Her question has been answered several times on other threads by me. All I would have to do is copy and paste it, but that is not going to happen. She made this personal, so you and her can go screw yourselves.

[Mr. 5020]

Is coitus interuptous Biblical? Or does your poor wife have to get pregnant everytime King Sozo says so?

Teeny weeny jelly beanie, the spirits are about to speak. Are they friendly spirits? I don't know, let's listen.Why did you make this personal? :nono:

[Granite]

Sozo: if you can't stand the heat, get lost. You don't hesitate to make personal attacks and yet when someone asks you a personal question that could make you a hypocrite, you lose control.

Why don't you take your foul mouth, hatred, and pent up aggression elsewhere?

I hear you're actually a nice guy in person. I suspect TOL is the only opportunity you have to vent. If so, that's your problem. But don't accuse people of "making it personal" and clam up when asked a very simple question. Do you practice what you preach or not?

[OlDove]

Her question has been answered several times on other threads by me. All I would have to do is copy and paste it, but that is not going to happen. She made this personal, so you and her can go screw yourselves.
YES Sozo has made it rain. He sees how close his thinking is now to mine. That is where that hate comes from.

L8tr

[Mr. 5020]

This thread needs to be closed.

[Sozo]

Sozo: if you can't stand the heat, get lost. You don't hesitate to make personal attacks and yet when someone asks you a personal question that could make you a hypocrite, you lose control.

Why don't you take your foul mouth, hatred, and pent up aggression elsewhere?

I hear you're actually a nice guy in person. I suspect TOL is the only opportunity you have to vent. If so, that's your problem. But don't accuse people of "making it personal" and clam up when asked a very simple question. Do you practice what you preach or not?

Kiss my ### you piece of :PureX:

[Granite]

Is there a moderator in the house?

Sozo: I suspect you are a hypocrite.

Or nuts.

Or a very sad, very frustrated guy.

Your loss.

[Mr. 5020]

Sozo, calm down!

[Sozo]

YES Sozo has made it rain. He sees how close his thinking is now to mine. That is where that hate comes from.

L8tr


I am NOTHING like you, nor do I believe in killing babies like you do, you whore.

I hate child killers, and YOU are one!

[Jukia]

I once got banned for what? Being annoying? so this buffoon gets to stay on. Lets see if the moderators have any onions.

[Mr. 5020]

I once got banned for what? Being annoying? so this buffoon gets to stay on. Lets see if the moderators have any onions.Sozo has been banned more than once.

[Sozo]

I once got banned for what? Being annoying? so this buffoon gets to stay on. Lets see if the moderators have any onions.


Do you think I give a rip if I am banned?

I will not let some ##### insult my wife!

[Mr. 5020]

Do you think I give a rip if I am banned?

I will not let some ##### insult my wife!Please calm down, Sozo.

[Jukia]

At the risk of incurring your wrath, yeah calm down or simply have your stroke and get it over with. Wow. Maybe some prayerful meditation. Chill out. Oldove may have insulted your thinking but not your wife. Get a grip man.

[Sozo]

Please calm down, Sozo.


Believe it or not, I am calm.

[Sozo]

Oldove may have insulted your thinking but not your wife. You possess a poor ability of discernment. The whore knew exactly what she was saying.

[Mr. 5020]

Believe it or not, I am calm.Can you edit the profanity out of your posts then?

[Knight]

* dispersing the crowd *

Move on now... nothing to see here... move on people nothing to see here.