Eugene
July 15th, 2002, 04:20 PM
Jesus commanded us to pray, “Thy kingdom come” (Matthew 6:10). If you go to your favorite online Bible (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible) and search for the phrase “kingdom of God” or “kingdom of heaven” and try to take in all the glory of what that phrase meant, I believe you will be thrilled as you try to absorb it all and comprehend all of the wondrous, glorious good news. Preterists say, the kingdom of God, redemption and indeed, the blessed hope, arrived with the destruction of apostate Judaism. I must protest and I have protested. The kingdom Jesus directed us to pray for and look forward to is a glorious kingdom. He never asked us to pray for anything less.
On another thread, The Preterist Chimera is Easily Refuted (http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2690), I asked the orthodox preterist Dee Dee Warren to exegete the following parallel* passages.
1. Then He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.” Luke 21:29-30.
2. “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luke 21:28.
3. “But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36.I made my view clearly known:
Item number 1 points to Matthew 25:31-46. In brief, “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.”
Item number 2 points to redemption. When does that arrive? “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:22-23.
Item number 3 refers to “standing before the Son of Man.” This too is Matthew 25:31-46. “We will all stand before the judgment seat of God” (Romans 14:10). This judgment isn’t a limited, temporal punishment as in 70AD. It’s the final judgment. “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
* The word parallel means 1) Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities. 2) Having the same direction or tendency; running side by side; being in accordance (with); tending to the same result. 3) Continuing a resemblance through many particulars; applicable in all essential parts; like; similar. 4) Having identical or equivalent syntactic constructions in corresponding clauses or phrases.
Here are some parallels:
1. “when you see these things happening”
2. “when these things begin to take place”
3. “these things that are about to take place”
1. When / see these things happening / recognize / what’s coming (the kingdom) / how quickly (soon)
2. When / these things begin to take place / straighten up and lift up your heads / your redemption / is drawing near
3. … / immediacy: be watchful and alert at all times / pray for strength / to stand before the Son of Man / about to take place
1. The kingdom of God is near
2. Your redemption is drawing near
3. The time to stand before the Son of Man is about to take place.
OK. Now we understand the preterist’s conclusions. The kingdom of God and apostolic redemption arrived with the destruction of apostate Judaism. As for the prophesied event of standing before the Son of Man in 70AD, Dee Dee explained it thusly:
We “stand” before God in many ways. In Ephesians 6 we are commanded to stand firm in spiritual warfare, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays for the believers to stand perfect and complete, in Philipians 4:1 we are to stand fast in the Lord, etc.
The “Kingdom of God” has already referred to different contexts and stages, and there is no Biblical reason for thinking that this phrase does not as well. The living Christians were vindicated at the fall of Jerusalem. They stood before the Lord victorious. You and I are always standing before the Lord. The Lukan context … seems to be aimed only at the believers who survive.Here are some Bible quotes for the apostles expecting the blessed hope in their day:
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,... Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless. 2 Pe 3:11-14.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Phil 3:20.
And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 1 John 2:28.
... so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus. 1 Thess 3:13.
... awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Tit 2:13.
... as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1:7,8.
You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess 1:9,10.
Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and ... keep the commandment without stain or reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time. 1 Tim 6:12-15.
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18.
The end of all things is at hand. 1 Pe 4:7.
... The appointed time has grown very short. 1 Cor 7:29.
... The ends of the ages have come. 1 Cor 10:11.
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son. Heb 1:1,2.
Now ... at the consummation of the ages. Heb 9:26.
... a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Pe 1:5.
For He ... appeared in these last times for the sake of you. 1 Pe 1:20.
For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. Heb 10:37.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall... 1 Thess 4:15.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. ... behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:8,9.
But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1 Pe 4:5.That is preterism. It is based on the infallibility of the Bible writers and the preterists’ unique misunderstanding of the Olivet Discourse. Preterists force everything into a first century perspective. They say that everything expected actually took place. I say that it obviously did not.
My view is as follows:
Contextual Realism
What I’m proposing is a whole new paradigm for prophetic interpretation. I’m saying that, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prophesied a complete end-time scenario for the first century, which in fact hit all the major catastrophes, and that the revealing, coming, kingdom of God, redemption, and standing before the Son of Man, is to be understood in its ultimate eschatological sense. I’m also saying that Jesus inserted a disclaimer. There would be a delay in His return.
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:1-3.Jesus did not answer His disciples by taking up separately the destruction of Jerusalem and the great day of His coming. He mingled the description of these two events. Had He opened to His disciples future events as He beheld them, they would have been unable to endure the sight. In mercy to them He blended the description of the two great crises, leaving the disciples to study out the meaning for themselves. In this way, a distinct first century application was mixed with the great day of Christ’s Second Coming.
Here are the facts. In Matthew 24, Jesus presented two irreconcilable kinds of prophecies that are blended together in a seemingly compatible way. One prophecy is an exact, unmistakable delineation of future events. The other insists on your ignorance of the future and cautions you to be ready no matter what.
Most of these distinctions are in two consecutive pieces: Mt 24:1-35 and Mt 24:36-51. I think of the first prophecy as a possible end of the world in the first century. The focus in the second half is in parable form and concerns a certain indeterminable future.
Jesus continues His instruction about the second scenario in Matthew 25:
“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom” (Mt 25:1).
Verse 5 is a key verse:
“Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep” (Mt 25:5).
Following the parable of the Ten Virgins, Christ tells the parable of the Talents. Note the parallel idea:
“After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them” (Mt 25:19).
I’m not basing my interpretation on the contrast between prophecy and parable alone. The book of Daniel is a clear precedent for multiple scenarios and that’s the basis for Jesus’ multi-scenario eschatology. Click here (http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/eschatology5.htm) for a very brief yet comprehensive summary of Daniel’s two-scenario eschatology.
One last point:
Preterists need to give more weight to the powerful disclaimers given by Jesus. I honestly don’t believe that they can exegete the parables and dogmatically conclude that they were intended only for the apostolic church.
Therefore:
“Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch. Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ” Mark 13:33-37.
On another thread, The Preterist Chimera is Easily Refuted (http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2690), I asked the orthodox preterist Dee Dee Warren to exegete the following parallel* passages.
1. Then He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.” Luke 21:29-30.
2. “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luke 21:28.
3. “But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36.I made my view clearly known:
Item number 1 points to Matthew 25:31-46. In brief, “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.”
Item number 2 points to redemption. When does that arrive? “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:22-23.
Item number 3 refers to “standing before the Son of Man.” This too is Matthew 25:31-46. “We will all stand before the judgment seat of God” (Romans 14:10). This judgment isn’t a limited, temporal punishment as in 70AD. It’s the final judgment. “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
* The word parallel means 1) Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities. 2) Having the same direction or tendency; running side by side; being in accordance (with); tending to the same result. 3) Continuing a resemblance through many particulars; applicable in all essential parts; like; similar. 4) Having identical or equivalent syntactic constructions in corresponding clauses or phrases.
Here are some parallels:
1. “when you see these things happening”
2. “when these things begin to take place”
3. “these things that are about to take place”
1. When / see these things happening / recognize / what’s coming (the kingdom) / how quickly (soon)
2. When / these things begin to take place / straighten up and lift up your heads / your redemption / is drawing near
3. … / immediacy: be watchful and alert at all times / pray for strength / to stand before the Son of Man / about to take place
1. The kingdom of God is near
2. Your redemption is drawing near
3. The time to stand before the Son of Man is about to take place.
OK. Now we understand the preterist’s conclusions. The kingdom of God and apostolic redemption arrived with the destruction of apostate Judaism. As for the prophesied event of standing before the Son of Man in 70AD, Dee Dee explained it thusly:
We “stand” before God in many ways. In Ephesians 6 we are commanded to stand firm in spiritual warfare, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays for the believers to stand perfect and complete, in Philipians 4:1 we are to stand fast in the Lord, etc.
The “Kingdom of God” has already referred to different contexts and stages, and there is no Biblical reason for thinking that this phrase does not as well. The living Christians were vindicated at the fall of Jerusalem. They stood before the Lord victorious. You and I are always standing before the Lord. The Lukan context … seems to be aimed only at the believers who survive.Here are some Bible quotes for the apostles expecting the blessed hope in their day:
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,... Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless. 2 Pe 3:11-14.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Phil 3:20.
And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 1 John 2:28.
... so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus. 1 Thess 3:13.
... awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Tit 2:13.
... as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1:7,8.
You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess 1:9,10.
Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and ... keep the commandment without stain or reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time. 1 Tim 6:12-15.
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18.
The end of all things is at hand. 1 Pe 4:7.
... The appointed time has grown very short. 1 Cor 7:29.
... The ends of the ages have come. 1 Cor 10:11.
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son. Heb 1:1,2.
Now ... at the consummation of the ages. Heb 9:26.
... a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Pe 1:5.
For He ... appeared in these last times for the sake of you. 1 Pe 1:20.
For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. Heb 10:37.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall... 1 Thess 4:15.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. ... behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:8,9.
But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 1 Pe 4:5.That is preterism. It is based on the infallibility of the Bible writers and the preterists’ unique misunderstanding of the Olivet Discourse. Preterists force everything into a first century perspective. They say that everything expected actually took place. I say that it obviously did not.
My view is as follows:
Contextual Realism
What I’m proposing is a whole new paradigm for prophetic interpretation. I’m saying that, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prophesied a complete end-time scenario for the first century, which in fact hit all the major catastrophes, and that the revealing, coming, kingdom of God, redemption, and standing before the Son of Man, is to be understood in its ultimate eschatological sense. I’m also saying that Jesus inserted a disclaimer. There would be a delay in His return.
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:1-3.Jesus did not answer His disciples by taking up separately the destruction of Jerusalem and the great day of His coming. He mingled the description of these two events. Had He opened to His disciples future events as He beheld them, they would have been unable to endure the sight. In mercy to them He blended the description of the two great crises, leaving the disciples to study out the meaning for themselves. In this way, a distinct first century application was mixed with the great day of Christ’s Second Coming.
Here are the facts. In Matthew 24, Jesus presented two irreconcilable kinds of prophecies that are blended together in a seemingly compatible way. One prophecy is an exact, unmistakable delineation of future events. The other insists on your ignorance of the future and cautions you to be ready no matter what.
Most of these distinctions are in two consecutive pieces: Mt 24:1-35 and Mt 24:36-51. I think of the first prophecy as a possible end of the world in the first century. The focus in the second half is in parable form and concerns a certain indeterminable future.
Jesus continues His instruction about the second scenario in Matthew 25:
“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom” (Mt 25:1).
Verse 5 is a key verse:
“Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep” (Mt 25:5).
Following the parable of the Ten Virgins, Christ tells the parable of the Talents. Note the parallel idea:
“After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them” (Mt 25:19).
I’m not basing my interpretation on the contrast between prophecy and parable alone. The book of Daniel is a clear precedent for multiple scenarios and that’s the basis for Jesus’ multi-scenario eschatology. Click here (http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/eschatology5.htm) for a very brief yet comprehensive summary of Daniel’s two-scenario eschatology.
One last point:
Preterists need to give more weight to the powerful disclaimers given by Jesus. I honestly don’t believe that they can exegete the parables and dogmatically conclude that they were intended only for the apostolic church.
Therefore:
“Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch. Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ” Mark 13:33-37.