What Is Matter?

[OlDove]

Hey, what's the matter with matter? I don't know. Let's look.

Matter and energy appear different at different temperatures. Is matter simply energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist? All matter is made up of electrons, neutrons and protons. Do these exist as matter? I know the latest studies brake these down into even smaller particles, but aren't we really just slicing energy into smaller pieces? On our planet we have a drink of water. On another we might have a drink of liquid oxygen. No, please don't try that on this planet. I'm not saying the baseball hitting you on the head won't hurt you. I'm asking did energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist hit you on the head? Is matter an illusion along with being very real?

Ok, this time for real, I'll be back Wednesday.

[smuda]

Energy equals matter times speed-of-light squared.

Matter is engergy and energy is matter. Isn't that the whole thing with Quantum Physics? That we cannot find the indivisible building block of matter?

If matter in our universe could reach the speed of light it would turn into light?

as matter approaches the speed of light it increases in mass and elongates to infinity? I dunno....

[logos_x]

It's the stuff everything is made out of.

[88DT7]

You could think of energy as being a force, and matter as being a substance.

[smuda]

I am that, thou are that, all this is nothing but that. or as John Lennon reworded it: I am he as you are he and you are me and we are all together...

[Letsargue]

Energy equals matter times speed-of-light squared.

Matter is engergy and energy is matter. Isn't that the whole thing with Quantum Physics? That we cannot find the indivisible building block of matter?

If matter in our universe could reach the speed of light it would turn into light?

as matter approaches the speed of light it increases in mass and elongates to infinity? I dunno....


---At the point you’re talking about is where God and Space itself, are the same thing. Beyond that, we go into one of two directions, Science or Religion. From that point God does it all on the side of religion, and on the other side, the laws of science explains everything that space does. We’re not supposed to cross the two, but the unlearned does anyhow.
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[smuda]

Paul,
It looks to me that science and religion are dove-tailing. Eastern Mystics and Quantum Physicists are starting to sound like the same bird in some corners. If my pathetic attempt to describe the Master Einstein is God, as you say, then God it must remain. Science and Religion are two sides of one coin.
respectfully,
Carl

[MB999]

Energy equals matter times speed-of-light squared.

Matter is engergy and energy is matter. Isn't that the whole thing with Quantum Physics? That we cannot find the indivisible building block of matter?

If matter in our universe could reach the speed of light it would turn into light?

as matter approaches the speed of light it increases in mass and elongates to infinity? I dunno....

I would reccomend reading the wikipedia article on quantum mechanics, its quite good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics

I thought that this was interesting-
"Another quantum effect is the wave-particle duality. It has been shown that, under certain experimental conditions, microscopic objects like atoms or electrons exhibit particle-like behavior, such as scattering. ("Particle-like" in the sense of an object that can be localized to a particular region of space.) Under other conditions, the same type of objects exhibit wave-like behavior, such as interference. We can observe only one type of property at a time, never both at the same time."

It does seem reasonable perhaps that waves and particles could be fundamentally the same.

[smuda]

MB999,
that quote is interesting. from things I've read it is thata very duality that launched Quantum Physics in the very early years of the Twentieth Century. There was some experiment that showed light acting like a particle and then a wave. Because Classical Physics could not explain this, Albert Eistein and his other brilliant physicist friends began to "get busy" .....and then they split an atom and all this stuff came out.... :crackup:
respectfully,
Carl

[OlDove]

I am that, thou are that, all this is nothing but that. or as John Lennon reworded it: I am he as you are he and you are me and we are all together...
I saw that writen on the board at the P.I.C.U. waiting room..

Did you do that?

[OlDove]

Energy equals matter times speed-of-light squared.

Matter is engergy and energy is matter. Isn't that the whole thing with Quantum Physics? That we cannot find the indivisible building block of matter?

If matter in our universe could reach the speed of light it would turn into light?

as matter approaches the speed of light it increases in mass and elongates to infinity? I dunno...
.
aint it cool.

Can anything be that is not provable?

[OlDove]

I would reccomend reading the wikipedia article on quantum mechanics, its quite good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics

I thought that this was interesting-
"Another quantum effect is the wave-particle duality. It has been shown that, under certain experimental conditions, microscopic objects like atoms or electrons exhibit particle-like behavior, such as scattering. ("Particle-like" in the sense of an object that can be localized to a particular region of space.) Under other conditions, the same type of objects exhibit wave-like behavior, such as interference. We can observe only one type of property at a time, never both at the same time."

It does seem reasonable perhaps that waves and particles could be fundamentally the same.
today with all mans words we have trouble explaining light. Light is used by early man with few words.

aint it cool how smart man is.

[soothsayer]

Is matter simply energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist? I believe that matter is energy...even in the most solid-seeming objects, there is always motion going on at the atomic level (assuming the temperature stays above absolute zero). So matter is NOT simply energy "frozen" or any of that. I think that matter and energy are one and the same, just different ways of thinking about existence.

What I find fascinating is that life is made up of the same substances as inanimate objects. At the matter/energy level, we are all the same "stuff" as rocks, air, stars, etc. That's amazing to me.

[OlDove]

What I find fascinating is that life is made up of the same substances as inanimate objects. At the matter/energy level, we are all the same "stuff" as rocks, air, stars, etc. That's amazing to me.
But "stuff" alone makes no life.
It thakes........"stuff" plus "stuff" working/married, to make simple life.

[Daniel50]

Hey, what's the matter with matter? I don't know. Let's look.

Matter and energy appear different at different temperatures. Is matter simply energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist? All matter is made up of electrons, neutrons and protons. Do these exist as matter? I know the latest studies brake these down into even smaller particles, but aren't we really just slicing energy into smaller pieces? On our planet we have a drink of water. On another we might have a drink of liquid oxygen. No, please don't try that on this planet. I'm not saying the baseball hitting you on the head won't hurt you. I'm asking did energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist hit you on the head? Is matter an illusion along with being very real?

Ok, this time for real, I'll be back Wednesday.

What is matter?

Matter is meter. :thumb:

[Letsargue]

Paul,
It looks to me that science and religion are dove-tailing. Eastern Mystics and Quantum Physicists are starting to sound like the same bird in some corners. If my pathetic attempt to describe the Master Einstein is God, as you say, then God it must remain. Science and Religion are two sides of one coin.
respectfully,
Carl

---One might say they’re dove-tailing, only because the stupid scientists combine the two so, looking for answers where there are no answers. Science is science, and God is God, God is not scientific, and scientists are not Godly in their science. God explains the universe one way, and scientists explains the universe another way, both are right in their own area of knowledge, Carnal knowledge and Spiritual knowledge, However the two should NEVER COME TOGETHER AND TRY TO MINGLE, or merge which is a marriage of the two which is foolish it even consider.
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---------------Paul---
*

[soothsayer]

But "stuff" alone makes no life.
It thakes........"stuff" plus "stuff" working/married, to make simple life.What do you mean? Cells are made up of atoms...my point is that at the atomic level there is no distinction between the carobon atoms in my brain cells and the carbon atoms in a piece of coal, or in a diamond.

[OlDove]

i see an eye

[OlDove]

What do you mean? Cells are made up of atoms...my point is that at the atomic level there is no distinction between the carobon atoms in my brain cells and the carbon atoms in a piece of coal, or in a diamond.
True, but that part of your brain has a different program, ability to atract does it not?

why does one surround it self with alike things?

[soothsayer]

---One might say they’re dove-tailing, only because the stupid scientists combine the two so, looking for answers where there are no answers. I cannot decipher your gibberish. Which stupid scientists are you referring to?Science is science, and God is God, OK, I'm with you...God is not scientificOh, well...his loss. :chuckle:and scientists are not Godly in their science. So what?God explains the universe one way, and scientists explains the universe another way, both are right in their own area of knowledge, Carnal knowledge and Spiritual knowledge, However the two should NEVER COME TOGETHER AND TRY TO MINGLE, or merge which is a marriage of the two which is foolish it even consider. I agree...so let's abandon God all together and start pursuing Truth through science.

[OlDove]

---One might say they’re dove-tailing, only because the stupid scientists combine the two so, looking for answers where there are no answers. Science is science, and God is God, God is not scientific, and scientists are not Godly in their science. God explains the universe one way, and scientists explains the universe another way, both are right in their own area of knowledge, Carnal knowledge and Spiritual knowledge, However the two should NEVER COME TOGETHER AND TRY TO MINGLE, or merge which is a marriage of the two which is foolish it even consider.
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thats what i hear. but that is here, on earth, from mankind who loves war.

[OlDove]

abandon God all together and start pursuing Truth through science.
science is cool.

It explains in ways that it sees.It is the mesure of what is.It is a gift to mankind.

[One Eyed Jack]

I like to think of it as condensed energy.

[Letsargue]

I like to think of it as condensed energy.

---Why yes; - in fact compressed vibrations of energy, into droplets of vibrations of MASS ENERGY, thus Mass, or matter. Kinda as the Bible says.
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[Letsargue]

What do you mean? Cells are made up of atoms...my point is that at the atomic level there is no distinction between the carobon atoms in my brain cells and the carbon atoms in a piece of coal, or in a diamond.


---It can only be chemical reactions do to environmental changes, progressed by the carbon radiation in the environment, NOTHING ELSE. Use up the carbon in the earth and life cannot increase, but must decrease.
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[Letsargue]

thats what i hear. but that is here, on earth, from mankind who loves war.


---Sorry!! - That's who you and I are, We are not intelligent, smart, kind, loving, or travelers. We are self indulging, hungry, vicious, warriors. And there is no changing us. Therefore Christ.
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[smuda]

I saw that writen on the board at the P.I.C.U. waiting room..

Did you do that? I did not do that. What is the P.I.C.U. waiting room?

[smuda]

Matter is mostly space. If the nucleus of a Hydron atom was the size of a basketball, the single electron that speeds around the nucleus is twenty-miles away. Matter is non-local. The scientist cannot give us location and direction at the same time. Quantum theory experiments effect the thing being observed. It isn't possible to know what sub-atomic particles are doing when they go unobserved. And sub-atomic particles can communicate with each other faster than the speed of light. I'm just repeating what I can remember from the What the Bleep do we know? book. :o

[billwald]

You are all dodging the REAL question: Does matter exist outside God's mind? If God took a microsecond break would we disappear? Could God create a universe which can exist without his micromanagement

[bob b]

You are all dodging the REAL question: Does matter exist outside God's mind? If God took a microsecond break would we disappear? Could God create a universe which can exist without his micromanagement

Is there value in raising a question that can't possibly be demonstrated one way or the other?

[smuda]

"The entire universe is nothing other than a knowledge construct that exists solely in the Mind of the Creator. What we perceive around us is the illusion of a physical reality. Everything, whether ourselves, another person, a physical object, a concept or an emotion, exiss totally within the Mind of the Creator, in an ocean of consciousness that contains the universes of innumerable other Creators." - SriVyuha.

And Quantum Theory is laying a solid (pun intended) foundation to support this ancient belief.

[OlDove]

---Sorry!! - That's who you and I are, We are not intelligent, smart, kind, loving, or travelers. We are self indulging, hungry, vicious, warriors. And there is no changing us. Therefore Christ.
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No changing???

How can we be self indulging, hungry, vicious, warriors. If we have Jesus???

[OlDove]

Is there value in raising a question that can't possibly be demonstrated one way or the other?
Yes. To askis always wise. To believe takes trust.

[OlDove]

"The entire universe is nothing other than a knowledge construct that exists solely in the Mind of the Creator. What we perceive around us is the illusion of a physical reality. Everything, whether ourselves, another person, a physical object, a concept or an emotion, exiss totally within the Mind of the Creator, in an ocean of consciousness that contains the universes of innumerable other Creators." - SriVyuha.

And Quantum Theory is laying a solid (pun intended) foundation to support this ancient belief.
Was there a first creater within this thought?

[bowhunter]

"What is matter"?

Well, thanks for asking. My head hurts, I am not getting much sleep, I keep sneezing, I don't make enough money, I have to keep cleaning my house (entropy at work) and I have to change the ignition wires on my honda civic.

[OlDove]

"What is matter"?

Well, thanks for asking. My head hurts, I am not getting much sleep, I keep sneezing, I don't make enough money, I have to keep cleaning my house (entropy at work) and I have to change the ignition wires on my honda civic.
Cant you just teach the current to go to the plugs? I mean really, how many times has a spark traveled those paths the wires make. but to teach the coil where to sent its sparks.......... What U think???

[OlDove]

I like to think of it as condensed energy.
OEJ, nice of you to pop in. The attraction of subatomic particles that appear to communicate and travel at the speed of light. Neat stuff ain't it? I forget the technical name, why water became water, and iron became iron. Has anyone ever noticed that the forces all mimic each other? Gravitational, electromagnetic. Gravity is the byproduct of the gathering of mass, yet the weak forces are the cause for the matter to start attracting each other. But to explain beyond that what is known, perhaps a localized fanominon. A fanominon with awareness. A type of energy or force that does not need matter. Kind of like trying to explain a light ray and particle. Two things are one. Even in string theory, does each string have a charge? Any thoughts?

[bowhunter]

I think it is interesting that gravity is faster by far than the speed of light. I mean, how long does it take for light to travel to Pluto? And yet if the Sun were to disappear, Pluto would at the same moment be released from it's orbit, WELL before the light of the sun stopped shining.

[smuda]

Was there a first creater within this thought?as a student of SriVyuha I would say yes. Shiva/Krishna was, is, and always will be. From that point out it gets complicated with many creations, by what I'm reading these days. So the Shiva/Krishna would be the hindu equivalent of the ancient Hebrew tetragrammaton, if you will. YHWH. Hear O Israel, the Lord our Lord is One.

Quantum Theory is giving us peons bizzarre and wacky explanation based on their best findings of sub-atomic particles. Of course it is beyond the scope of understanding since those Brainiacs need their language (Mathematics) to explain this wacky world to us. What gets me is that these Physicists were realizing all this in the early days of the 20th century. For almost 100 years the scientists knew this stuff was...unreal. That matter was a MYTH. Now in early years of the 21st century these paradigms are now trickling down us the non-scientists.

[Letsargue]

I think it is interesting that gravity is faster by far than the speed of light. I mean, how long does it take for light to travel to Pluto? And yet if the Sun were to disappear, Pluto would at the same moment be released from it's orbit, WELL before the light of the sun stopped shining.

---Well, I don't think that's the way it works. There is nothing faster than light. Light is not even the speed of light, as we think of it. Think of the ripples on a pond. The ripples are moving about 3 feet per sec. The water is not moving hardly at all. Just the ripples are moving not the water itself. the same with sound, the ripples of the vibration of air is moving but the air is not moving at the speed of sound. and so it is with light. Light is only the vibration of space itself. Space is the medium for the speed of light and space is not moving at the speed of light, just the vibration of space is moving at the speed of light. There is nothing that vibrates faster than space. So that is the end of the speed race. Like air is the medium for sound, space is the medium for the speed of light.
---I know, that's not taught anywhere, but that does not mean that it is not so.
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[bowhunter]

I know, that's not taught anywhere, but that does not mean that it is not so.

Well....... I guess that settles the question of light.

[OlDove]

So.........is the speed of light a constant?

A void/vacuum, a great spot for light to travel?

Sun go boom,source of gravity gone.Is gravity force gone?

[OlDove]

---Well, I don't think that's the way it works. There is nothing faster than light. Light is not even the speed of light, as we think of it. Think of the ripples on a pond. The ripples are moving about 3 feet per sec. The water is not moving hardly at all. Just the ripples are moving not the water itself. the same with sound, the ripples of the vibration of air is moving but the air is not moving at the speed of sound. and so it is with light. Light is only the vibration of space itself. Space is the medium for the speed of light and space is not moving at the speed of light, just the vibration of space is moving at the speed of light. There is nothing that vibrates faster than space. So that is the end of the speed race. Like air is the medium for sound, space is the medium for the speed of light.
---I know, that's not taught anywhere, but that does not mean that it is not so.
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The angle of the ripple matter?

[Letsargue]

The angle of the ripple matter?

---What angle, of what ripple.
---It appears to me that there is no angel of any ripple, they all travel from the sourse in a streight line.
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*

[B1sh0p]

Hey, what's the matter with matter? I don't know. Let's look.

Matter and energy appear different at different temperatures. Is matter simply energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist? All matter is made up of electrons, neutrons and protons. Do these exist as matter? I know the latest studies brake these down into even smaller particles, but aren't we really just slicing energy into smaller pieces? On our planet we have a drink of water. On another we might have a drink of liquid oxygen. No, please don't try that on this planet. I'm not saying the baseball hitting you on the head won't hurt you. I'm asking did energy frozen, bonded, glued, etc., within the time and space we exist hit you on the head? Is matter an illusion along with being very real?

Ok, this time for real, I'll be back Wednesday.

The nature of creation reflects the Trinity just as Romans states
" since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
So is it any wonder that one of the top scientists/physicists of the last century Ricahrd Fynman said "All matter is interaction" meaning there is no fundamental particle only relationships bewtween particles. We say God is 'one' but He is also 'three' - a relationship of persons. What a coincidence. Everything in creation is a relationship.

[bowhunter]

May the praise of God be in their mouths and a double-edged sword in their hands, to inflict vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples, to bind their kings with fetters, their nobles with shackles of iron, to carry out the sentence written against them. ....Praise the LORD. .
:x cheers:

That reminds me, I gotta go get me some O'Doul's Amber and get drunk tonight~~~

[Letsargue]

So.........is the speed of light a constant?

A void/vacuum, a great spot for light to travel?

Sun go boom,source of gravity gone.Is gravity force gone?

---OOOHHH, Here’s where I get in trouble.

---Light is at a constant speed relative to the compression of space. Let’s say, space is compressed to twice the normal as we know it. That’s a mile of space is of course a mile. But compressed twice the normal, the three dimensional distance of one mile now has two miles of space in it. So looking at it from the side you see only one mile, but if you were in side you would see two miles in it. There is the forth dimension achieved.

---Now to you question, Light will travel the same speed thought the same density of space, always at 186,000 miles of space per second. If there were 372,000 miles of space compressed into 186,000 miles of 3D distance, light would take twice as long, or two seconds to travel that 186,000 miles. – Again that’s the true affect of the forth dimension. – The creation, or the universe is filled with that deception. The universe is not even in its compression of space. There are places where space may be thousands of times the compression that of Norman as we know it, that would cause light to take thousands of times as long to travel the normal 3D distance as we know it.
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[Letsargue]

No changing???

How can we be self indulging, hungry, vicious, warriors. If we have Jesus???


---We are supposed to be able to realize that we need Christ, because we are all those things and more and worse. Some people think that the need for Christ is just a casual thing, but its life and death as we cannot understand it.
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[Letsargue]

"The entire universe is nothing other than a knowledge construct that exists solely in the Mind of the Creator. What we perceive around us is the illusion of a physical reality. Everything, whether ourselves, another person, a physical object, a concept or an emotion, exiss totally within the Mind of the Creator, in an ocean of consciousness that contains the universes of innumerable other Creators." - SriVyuha.

And Quantum Theory is laying a solid (pun intended) foundation to support this ancient belief.

---Good thought~~~. Could it be said that God is just simply dreaming a dream???
*
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*

[Letsargue]

So.........is the speed of light a constant?

A void/vacuum, a great spot for light to travel?

Sun go boom,source of gravity gone.Is gravity force gone?

--A void/vacuum, a great spot for light to travel?

---If total void of absolutely anything; - That is not a place, unless you are referring that space is in that void. Where there is no space there is no place to exist or to be, or for anything to happen, such as energy travel. However, there cannot be a total void of space within the universe, only “beyond the universe, if you can even say. “Beyond”, when there is no beyond.

---As some try to say, that there may be two or more universes; That cannot exist either. If you have one universe and there is NOTHING outside that universe, and there is no space outside of that universe; where is the other universe??? You can say, “It’s over there self-contained of itself”. O.K. What’s between the two universes??? – There is nothing between the two universes, not even space. - If there is NO space between the universes, they are together and are just one universe. --- That is the void you ask about.
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[Letsargue]

So.........is the speed of light a constant?

A void/vacuum, a great spot for light to travel?

Sun go boom,source of gravity gone.Is gravity force gone?
---Sun go boom, source of gravity gone is gravity force gone?

---Gravity is a miss-concept; or to say, the concept of gravity is mistaken for that which really is. Space, is again and always is, the only thing that exist, or just say God..
---( If I may insert a little religion into science here: - Space and God, are the same thing at that point, beyond that point, it’s science separate from religion for ever or from then on ).

---Mass or matter, causes the effect of gravity, which is really the mass or matter having to take up “space” as it is in its inter motion, or the function of the atomic particles. You would call that the atom or molecule. It is really a droplet or the harmony of different droplets of compressed frequencies of vibrating “SPACE”.

---( In religion, it’s ALL GOD, and in science, it’s all SPACE, Nothing else, just the same thing, but in different motions, Or the Spirit of God (MOVED).

---As the atomic particles move or vibrate, they use “space” and vibrate that space back out as energy, causing more space to rush toward the mass to re-supply the mass with more space to move and exist in, and vibrating that out, and more space rush toward the mass. If the mass is very large or is the size of the earth. Still, every atomic particle moves into different space and vibrates that space back out as energy, causing a great amount of space to rush toward the earth. If something is caught in the space rushing toward the earth, it is “PUSHED” DOWN TOWARD THE EARTH, nothing pulls anything down. There cannot be anything that pulls, there is no such thing as a pull, in science, just in farming, and small talk.
--The farmer pulls the plow; O.K. fine. But in science there is NO such thing as Gravity pulls, or the gravitational PULL of the moon causes the tide.
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[Middlemoor]

"Batter is a thick or thin liquid mixture, usually based on flour, water or milk, and egg. Batters may be used to make cakes, some breads, to coat meat or vegetables when frying, or to make pancakes, waffles or cookies." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter_%28cooking%29

[smuda]

---Good thought~~~. Could it be said that God is just simply dreaming a dream???
*
-------------------Paul---
*An ancient thought. I've read some of Brahmin sleeping or dreaming. The consciousness is far superior to passive or active dreaming. Dreaming consiousness is only a state. Beyond waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep there is Brahmin Consciousness. They get more technical. We could say God is Dreaming but far more potent than our dreaming consciousness.

And Quantum Theory apparantly has worked very hard to avoid the word "Consciousness."

[OlDove]

interesting thoughts.

any thoughts on this stuff?

dark stuff (http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html)

[Letsargue]

interesting thoughts.

any thoughts on this stuff?

dark stuff (http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/dm.html)


---LLOOLL, ---Scientists are like bad teachers of Bible doctrine. They make up something to explain what they can’t know.

---ALL matter is very active, which means that it is fairly easy to detect. If it cannot be detected, then it is either not there or beyond your detection.

---Dark matter; matter that’s missing, is false doctrines of the brains of the world. - They need to study the Book.
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[Letsargue]

An ancient thought. I've read some of Brahmin sleeping or dreaming. The consciousness is far superior to passive or active dreaming. Dreaming consiousness is only a state. Beyond waking, dreaming, dreamless sleep there is Brahmin Consciousness. They get more technical. We could say God is Dreaming but far more potent than our dreaming consciousness.

And Quantum Theory apparantly has worked very hard to avoid the word "Consciousness."

--- BUT! - but, but BUT: LOL.

---What about those dreams that God pulls us into, that are his dreams, like Daniel, Joseph, and others??? Todays talk of dreams has nothing to do with what really is. We don't do the dreaming, the good dreams are always God's dream, that he lets some of us share. -- And so does Satan. But you can tell which is scriptural.
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[OlDove]

---LLOOLL, ---Scientists are like bad teachers of Bible doctrine. They make up something to explain what they can’t know.

---ALL matter is very active, which means that it is fairly easy to detect. If it cannot be detected, then it is either not there or beyond your detection.

---Dark matter; matter that’s missing, is false doctrines of the brains of the world. - They need to study the Book.
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*
no faith in dark matter?

how bout anti-matter?

[OlDove]

--- BUT! - but, but BUT: LOL.

---What about those dreams that God pulls us into, that are his dreams, like Daniel, Joseph, and others??? Todays talk of dreams has nothing to do with what really is. We don't do the dreaming, the good dreams are always God's dream, that he lets some of us share. -- And so does Satan. But you can tell which is scriptural.
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-----------------Paul---
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Swiss cheese. I really don't like the stuff. Too stinky. So what the hell am I talking about swiss chees for? No, I didn't have a dream about swiss cheese.

I want you to think - swiss cheese existence. And now you have a funny word to make fun of the idea with. Each air pocket within a block of swiss cheese is a universe. The inhabitants of each air pocket exist only because God, or God's equivalant, has created this existence by dreaming or wishing it to be. Us, the byproduct of this, ponder our existence and sometimes wonder if there are other universes. Just as the inhabitants of the other air pockets of this swiss cheese ponder if we exist. And just like in a block of swiss cheese, there are many air pockets and therefore a God who made the air pocket possible. And yes there would be a first air pocket. Something possibly each air pocket can ponder if they are. Does that explain it in a swiss cheese type of way?

Nope, Bears fan. Though I wish Green Bay well.

[Letsargue]

Swiss cheese. I really don't like the stuff. Too stinky. So what the hell am I talking about swiss chees for? No, I didn't have a dream about swiss cheese.

I want you to think - swiss cheese existence. And now you have a funny word to make fun of the idea with. Each air pocket within a block of swiss cheese is a universe. The inhabitants of each air pocket exist only because God, or God's equivalant, has created this existence by dreaming or wishing it to be. Us, the byproduct of this, ponder our existence and sometimes wonder if there are other universes. Just as the inhabitants of the other air pockets of this swiss cheese ponder if we exist. And just like in a block of swiss cheese, there are many air pockets and therefore a God who made the air pocket possible. And yes there would be a first air pocket. Something possibly each air pocket can ponder if they are. Does that explain it in a swiss cheese type of way?

Nope, Bears fan. Though I wish Green Bay well.

---That may work with the cheese or a spunge, but the, all that there can be, JUST ONE, AS GOD IS ONE. I think the Book teaches it that way.
*
--------------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

---That may work with the cheese or a spunge, but the, all that there can be, JUST ONE, AS GOD IS ONE. I think the Book teaches it that way.
*
--------------------Paul---
*
If God is the swiss cheese?

[Letsargue]

no faith in dark matter?

how bout anti-matter?

---No, no dark matter, no black holes and no ghosts, and no-no, No ant-matter, or anti-me or anti-you. I don’t think the Lord made all this stuff that complicated. However; as God says, “(Things) are not made of (things) which (do appear)”. -- If that is true, and I have to believe it is so. Then the only option left is that everything is made of GOD; or his carnal factor, being SPACE. -- If “THAT” is so, then, Space and Spirit is the same thing, being equal. Space is the carnal creator of all things and space is just one thing and is not a compound of any two or more things, just one thing. Space has all power to be and do anything that can be done in the universe. Space establishes all physical Law. God establishes all spiritual Law. There is nothing but Space or God in all their different actions.
*
--------------Paul---
*

[Letsargue]

If God is the swiss cheese?


---OOOHH please, if that is so, Then by reason of God himself, The rat eat the God. NO-NO, that don't work. As you say, God may send out such an oder that drives the rats crazy. -- NAHHHH.
*
--------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

---No, no dark matter, no black holes and no ghosts, and no-no, No ant-matter, or anti-me or anti-you. I don’t think the Lord made all this stuff that complicated. *

that could be a good song.

[OlDove]

---OOOHH please, if that is so, Then by reason of God himself, The rat eat the God. NO-NO, that don't work. As you say, God may send out such an oder that drives the rats crazy. -- NAHHHH.
*
--------------Paul---
*
howbout if God is a sponge?

please no sponge Bob jokes.

[Letsargue]

howbout if God is a sponge?

please no sponge Bob jokes.

---NO!!! - that don't work either, The Roman solders used a spung on a stick to clean their donkey.
*
---------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

---NO!!! - that don't work either, The Roman solders used a spung on a stick to clean their donkey.
*
---------------Paul---
*
:chuckle:

ok you think of something holy........sorry, wholey.

[Letsargue]

:chuckle:

ok you think of something holy........sorry, wholey.

---God is wholey Holy, Take thy shoes from off thy feet, then drop your sack cloth, and step through the door, INTO~~~
*
----------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

---God is wholey Holy, Take thy shoes from off thy feet, then drop your sack cloth, and step through the door, INTO~~~
*
----------------Paul---
*
is it BYO cheese?

[Letsargue]

is it BYO cheese?

---Well, YAH, O.K.
*
------------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

---Well, YAH, O.K.
*
------------------Paul---
*
:readthis:
cheese (http://www.cheesehead.com/products.asp_Q_catid_E_6)

OK so within this thread I believe I also saw the thought that each of us are the equivalent to one of those stinky air pockets. So just as a negative of a photograph, the cheese is everything that would make it the really big cheese I guess. And in negative, the air pockets are just bags of skin with bones and water in them. And of course that universe that contemplated its existence. Wow! That really would make us a universe unto ourself. I'm going to go eat some pizza. Cheese makes me dream.

[OlDove]

wow, tough room

[smuda]

--- BUT! - but, but BUT: LOL.

---What about those dreams that God pulls us into, that are his dreams, like Daniel, Joseph, and others??? Todays talk of dreams has nothing to do with what really is. We don't do the dreaming, the good dreams are always God's dream, that he lets some of us share. -- And so does Satan. But you can tell which is scriptural.
*
-----------------Paul---
*Best understanding I have at the moment is that we are all each one of us a little fleck off Shiva/Krishna. Like a holographic glass. If you break off pieces of the holographic glass, each little piece can project the same 3D image. Every jiva (soul) is a little hologram of Shiva/Krishna but simply no where near as powerful.

I'm still unsure that dreams mean anything. But dreams do remind us that all of our lives are just a dream. waking is more powerful than dreams. I actually had a dream of the Parousia less than 3 years ago. And it was a first for me. Brahmin/Atman can communicate by dreams. Actually in deep meditation thoughts can rise from the source of thought and they take on all kinds of wacky images until the jiva is aware that something is there, instead of the Blank-mind of deep meditation. Paul, under your Christian paradigm anything not Biblical is demonic. Under other paradigms there are other things.

[smuda]

Swiss cheese. I really don't like the stuff. Too stinky. So what the hell am I talking about swiss chees for? No, I didn't have a dream about swiss cheese.

I want you to think - swiss cheese existence. And now you have a funny word to make fun of the idea with. Each air pocket within a block of swiss cheese is a universe. The inhabitants of each air pocket exist only because God, or God's equivalant, has created this existence by dreaming or wishing it to be. Us, the byproduct of this, ponder our existence and sometimes wonder if there are other universes. Just as the inhabitants of the other air pockets of this swiss cheese ponder if we exist. And just like in a block of swiss cheese, there are many air pockets and therefore a God who made the air pocket possible. And yes there would be a first air pocket. Something possibly each air pocket can ponder if they are. Does that explain it in a swiss cheese type of way?

Nope, Bears fan. Though I wish Green Bay well.That's pretty good. each air pocket is a universe and we are all part of one of those air pockets. The cheese part of this analogy is BEING. Everything rises from Being. Being is Atman. We are each one of us from Being. You who read this. You cannot get behind that which is reading this. If you go behind that which reads now, there is something behind that which observes something reading. The source of this observer is either atman or ego, I'm not sure which. Each hole in the Swiss Cheese has a Brahmin. And each of us Jivas are as chldren at play in Brahmin's Field.

I think the Physicists who work at Quantum Theory have discovered long ago that matter is a myth. Most of what we see, taste, touch, hear, & smell is mostly just space.

[Letsargue]

Best understanding I have at the moment is that we are all each one of us a little fleck off Shiva/Krishna. Like a holographic glass. If you break off pieces of the holographic glass, each little piece can project the same 3D image. Every jiva (soul) is a little hologram of Shiva/Krishna but simply no where near as powerful.

I'm still unsure that dreams mean anything. But dreams do remind us that all of our lives are just a dream. waking is more powerful than dreams. I actually had a dream of the Parousia less than 3 years ago. And it was a first for me. Brahmin/Atman can communicate by dreams. Actually in deep meditation thoughts can rise from the source of thought and they take on all kinds of wacky images until the jiva is aware that something is there, instead of the Blank-mind of deep meditation.
************************************************** *************************************


Paul, under your Christian paradigm anything not Biblical is demonic. Under other paradigms there are other things.

---You could have asked. -- No I don't believe that at all. -- Just in the worship of God is anything not Bibical is error, and is condemned of God, Just in the worship. Hunting is not worship, BBQing, watching TV. Millians of other things. However, most of my life I count as the worship of the Father some how.
*
---------------------Paul---
*

[spaz]

Matter is just a mode in which energy expresses itself.

[Mustard Seed]

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

--D&C 131: 7-8

[Letsargue]

Matter is just a mode in which energy expresses itself.

---OOOOHHHH, MMYYY:
*
---------------Paul---
*

[Letsargue]

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

--D&C 131: 7-8

---There is nothing but Space, everything is made of vibrating Space which is the energy, and energy is compressen into mass. Therefore everythinmg is made of Space, Scientifically.
---But Spiritually, everything is made of God, his Word and Spirit.
*
----------------Paul---
*

[Mustard Seed]

---There is nothing but Space, everything is made of vibrating Space which is the energy, and energy is compressen into mass. Therefore everythinmg is made of Space, Scientifically.
---But Spiritually, everything is made of God, his Word and Spirit.
*
----------------Paul---
*

I don't think your perception of matter/energy in terms of current scientific views is correct. There is Super-string theory that holds that the most fundamental objects would be vibrating strings of energy but I'm not aware of any scientific theory that has those vibrating strings as being themselves space/time. I may be wrong, I'm not the Theoretical Physicist (ThePhy seems to be--you could ask him) but I'm not aware of anything that holds that energy/matter is the same as space/time.

And everything that can be made is made/organized by God.

[chrysostom]

Matter is an illusion of a non-dual nature

[Letsargue]

I don't think your perception of matter/energy in terms of current scientific views is correct. There is Super-string theory that holds that the most fundamental objects would be vibrating strings of energy but I'm not aware of any scientific theory that has those vibrating strings as being themselves space/time. I may be wrong, I'm not the Theoretical Physicist (ThePhy seems to be--you could ask him) but I'm not aware of anything that holds that energy/matter is the same as space/time.

And everything that can be made is made/organized by God.

---Yes, the modern view, of everything has changed, YES???.
---Laws, foods, medicines, weapons, words, housing, RELIGION AND SCIENCE. Who changes everything??? Who follows the changers of everything??? I’ll bet Christ would not follow a whole lot of the NEW STUFF. Some things don’t matter so much, BUT GOD, who changed God??? And who’s following the changers of God??? Every time there’s another church, God has changed and there are new followers. It’s still DIVISION, DIVISION CHANGES GOD EVERY TIME. There cannot be division in the true Church of the Lord. There is none in MINE at all.
*
------------Paul---
*

[OlDove]

That's pretty good. each air pocket is a universe and we are all part of one of those air pockets. The cheese part of this analogy is BEING. Everything rises from Being. Being is Atman. We are each one of us from Being. You who read this. You cannot get behind that which is reading this. If you go behind that which reads now, there is something behind that which observes something reading. The source of this observer is either atman or ego, I'm not sure which. Each hole in the Swiss Cheese has a Brahmin. And each of us Jivas are as chldren at play in Brahmin's Field.

.

so to have our own ego stops the observer?

[OlDove]

Matter is an illusion of a non-dual nature
I challenge you to a dual. And if you do not accept? It's hard for one to have a dual unless I shoot at my left and right hand having a gun in each. There's the old saying, we need to have a bad day so that we can understand when we are having a good one. Now mono-poles, those are interesting. They are one charge without the other. But to have something come out a garden hose, something must go in the other side. Even if we shorten the garden hose, or so it appears. Quite real but also an illusion. If you were one and wanted to divide, how would you do it?

[OlDove]

be back l8tr