Sanders vs. White Open View Debate

[drdeutsch]

I downloaded an MP3 version of the Open View debate (I got the Inclusivism debate also!), and I must say that James White is very well learned. I've never read Sanders before, nor have I heard him speak, but I can't say that I'm very impressed.
I'll discuss this more when I finish listening to the entire debate.

Dr. Deutsch

[Dee Dee Warren]

I was personally present for the OV debate. White manhandled Sanders. However, it was obvious in all fairness that Sanders was not at all used to or prepared for a verbal debate. I have not yet read his book, but from what I understand, while he may stink at verbal debates, he writes very well. That is not uncommon.

[Yxboom]

I have the debate on mp3. I have listened to the OV as well as inclusivist debates a couple times thus far. I have read all of Sander's books I am aware of to date and have pre-ordered his upcoming book Does God Have A Future. He is by far the most respected and (personally) admired of the OVT champions. He is great in spoken dissertation from what I have heard but this is the first debate I had heard from him and I found it lacking in respect to being such a great expositor on paper.
Just for anyone who may be interested the debate in mp3 format may be downloaded for $2.50 at James White website Alpha & Omega Ministries (http://www.aomin.org/)

[drdeutsch]

Yep, that's where I got it from, Yx.

Dee Dee, perhaps you are right. I've heard so much about him, but White seemed so much more prepared and able to perform well in a spoken debate than Sanders. Sanders fumbled, said a lot of "um's" and "uh's" and generally seemed to be confused...

Both of them did bring up good points and made good arguments, but Sanders really needs to work on his public communication/rhetorical skills.

Dr. Deutsch

[Dee Dee Warren]

DrD - I am very upfront that I am not OV, so of course, I have to be careful that my opinions are not colored by my theological loyalties... but then again, some of the arguments that White made that are lodged in Calvinism I thoroughly disagree with as well.

But... and I know Boom hates me for saying this, Sanders was downright awful as a debater, and I don't think it will translate that well on tape as it was in being there. He had the deer in the headlights look the whole time, and judging from what I know of White... he toned down lest he look like a really nasty bully.

And Boom will hate me even more but the best part was when White asked him a question, and the response was "I don't remember what I wrote about that, " to which White responded, "I have your book, would you like me to look it up for you?"

But... even though I have not read his book.... I know way too many people here that I respect, such as Boom, who think so highly of Sanders that I know that what I witnessed cannot be representative of his abilities.

[drdeutsch]

That's fair, Dee Dee. Even if you aren't an Open View Theist... no one's perfect! :D

When White looked up what Sanders wrote and quoted it for him, it was pretty good. Also, so far I've counted at least two instances where Sanders said "I must admit, I'm confused/lost... how can this be?" Hehe.

But, I do have all of Sanders' books on my wishlist, as well as several from White and look forward to reading them all when I get there.
Dr. Deutsch

[Dee Dee Warren]

When White looked up what Sanders wrote and quoted it for him, it was pretty good.

That was priceless and I do not let Boom forget it. I about choked.

Also, so far I've counted at least two instances where Sanders said "I must admit, I'm confused/lost... how can this be?" Hehe.

In person the effect was much more dramatic.

And again, after criticisms, I like to balance it a bit.... he was very charming and likeable.. I mean after seeing him and listening to him, though I totally disagree with his pov... I liked him as a person. Sometimes you go to debates, and even if someone does a good job, you leave thorouhgly disliking the person.

[drdeutsch]

I would like to hear Bob Hill debate somebody like White. Even better, I'd like to hear Timothy McMahon debate White.

Anybody know of any audio files for those? I don't think any exist... :(

Dr. Deutsch

[Dee Dee Warren]

White (despite whatever disagreements someone may have with him) is an awesome debater. He toned down his capabilities at the Sanders debate so as not to come off as a total bully. The thing I respect about White is his profiency to be able to debate so many different topics well. At his website, there is just a plethora of debates on a wide variety of topics. To me that is way cool. I am a decent debater on a certain variety of topics... and am only an excellent debater in eschatology... and of course, I could kill White in eschatology (pan-millennialism ha!) if he ever debated that subject, which is one of the few that he does not.

[drdeutsch]

Yeah,
I plan on hearing some of White's stuff on KJV-only advocates and his Mormonism & Catholicism debates.

Dee Dee,
If I thought we both had time, I'd challenge you to an individual predestination debate (me arguing against it), but you seem to have about 30 eschatology threads going on, and I'm involved in an email debate it.

As it is, perhaps I will take up Eschatology and jump into the fray.
Dr. Deutsch

[Dee Dee Warren]

Yeah DrD... I am absolutely swamped... I have to turn down debates quite a bit. I too have several email intense discussoins going on that are completely outside of TOL and the responses in those tend to be even longer since there is no Admin to rebuke me for being too wordy (LOL).

[Adambassador]

This is the debate being referenced, and yes, John Sanders did horribly from a debate standpoint.

Fortunately, the Open View has many great orators today.

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