God, the devil, and your neighbor

[ibowatjesusfeet]

The following information was taken from netscape.com.


Is There a Devil? Find Out Who Says So

Look to your left. Look to your right. Chances are both people you see believe in the devil and hell.

We are a nation of believers. A Harris Poll surveyed 2,201 American adults about their religious beliefs and found out some fascinating information. Most Christians--not surprisingly--believe in God, the survival of the soul after death, miracles, heaven, the Virgin birth, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But more than half of all adults also believe in ghosts. About a third believe in astrology. And more than a quarter believe they were reincarnated from other people who walked on this Earth generations ago.

This is what your friends and neighbors believe in:

* God: 90 percent
* Miracles: 89 percent
* Survival of the soul after death: 84 percent
* Resurrection of Christ: 80 percent
* Virgin birth: 77 percent
* Devil: 68 percent
* Hell: 69 percent
* Ghosts: 51 percent
* Astrology: 31 percent
* Reincarnation: 27 percent

Where will you go after you die?

* Expect to go to heaven: 63 percent
* Expect to go to hell: 1 percent
* Expect to go to purgatory: 6 percent
* Expect to go someplace else: 11 percent
* Don't have a clue: 18 percent

Here are some fun facts from The Harris Poll:

* Women are more likely than men to hold both Christian and non-Christian beliefs.
* African-Americans are more likely than whites and Hispanics to hold Christian beliefs.
* Republicans are more likely to hold Christian beliefs than members of other political parties.
* The level of religious belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.
* Not all people who call themselves Christians actually hold conventional Christian beliefs. For example, 1 percent of Christians do not believe in God and 8 percent do not believe in the survival of the soul after death.
* More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

--Cathryn Conroy

(PS, I'm not Cathryn Conroy, that's who wrote the article.)

[ibowatjesusfeet]

* The level of religious belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.

Is this saying that only less intelligent people believe in God?

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by ibowatjesusfeet


Is this saying that only less intelligent people believe in God?

Not in my opinion. It says that the majority of people who have graduated college (with the exception of Christian colleges) have been in the public education system too long and are brain-washed by political correctness.

(And, this is coming from someone who has no college degree. :D)

[Freak]

More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

Very interesting?!

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

Not in my opinion. It says that the majority of people who have graduated college (with the exception of Christian colleges) have been in the public education system too long and are brain-washed by political correctness.

(And, this is coming from someone who has no college degree. :D)

From my experience with non-believers I knew in college, it seemed more like an arrogance and pride in their own mental abilities kinda thing. Like they felt confident they could figure out everything they needed for themselves and come up with their own explanations for everything.

[philosophizer]

Originally posted by Freak
More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

Very interesting?!

No kidding! Why?!

[Zakath]

The problem for the Christians is that those folks probably believe in more than one virgin birth...

They also believe that any number of people have been raised from the dead, as well as Jesus of Nazareth.

Their beliefs are not exclusive, but inclusive.

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Freak
More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

Very interesting?!
I doubt the accuracy of the poll. Here's why. I've had similar discussions with people and sometimes I get the impression they are telling me not what they personally believe but rather what the "correct" answer is. They were saying (in essence) "The bible or Christianity or public opinion says Jesus rose from the dead."

With my suspicions raised I clarify: "What I'm really asking you is do you personally believe that Jesus actually existed and was actually raised from the dead as a literal historical fact? Is it as much of a literal event as last year's Super Bowl?

Often they would respond with, "Oh, so that's what you're asking me. No, I don't believe that."

[Zakath]

Actually Jefferson, the point you make is that it's the validity of the poll that should be questioned, not accuracy. You're specifically writing about content validity - does a response to a question mean what we think it means.

Harris polls are nothing if not accurate. Validity depends to a great extent on their client and how badly they muck up the question design...

[ibowatjesusfeet]

1% of the people expect to go to hell. I wonder if they even understand what that means?

[Goose]

So, doing some math and statistics with those percentages, there really is only 1% of the population that has solid Christian beliefs. :D

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Goose
So, doing some math and statistics with those percentages, there really is only 1% of the population that has solid Christian beliefs. :D
Hmmm...

That puts about 60 million people in heaven.

Looks like the other 5.94 billion are hosed...

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ibowatjesusfeet
The following information was taken from netscape.com.


Is There a Devil? Find Out Who Says So

Look to your left. Look to your right. Chances are both people you see believe in the devil and hell.

We are a nation of believers. A Harris Poll surveyed 2,201 American adults about their religious beliefs and found out some fascinating information. Most Christians--not surprisingly--believe in God, the survival of the soul after death, miracles, heaven, the Virgin birth, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But more than half of all adults also believe in ghosts. About a third believe in astrology. And more than a quarter believe they were reincarnated from other people who walked on this Earth generations ago.

This is what your friends and neighbors believe in:

* God: 90 percent
* Miracles: 89 percent
* Survival of the soul after death: 84 percent
* Resurrection of Christ: 80 percent
* Virgin birth: 77 percent
* Devil: 68 percent
* Hell: 69 percent
* Ghosts: 51 percent
* Astrology: 31 percent
* Reincarnation: 27 percent

Where will you go after you die?

* Expect to go to heaven: 63 percent
* Expect to go to hell: 1 percent
* Expect to go to purgatory: 6 percent
* Expect to go someplace else: 11 percent
* Don't have a clue: 18 percent

Here are some fun facts from The Harris Poll:

* Women are more likely than men to hold both Christian and non-Christian beliefs.
* African-Americans are more likely than whites and Hispanics to hold Christian beliefs.
* Republicans are more likely to hold Christian beliefs than members of other political parties.
* The level of religious belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.
* Not all people who call themselves Christians actually hold conventional Christian beliefs. For example, 1 percent of Christians do not believe in God and 8 percent do not believe in the survival of the soul after death.
* More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

--Cathryn Conroy

(PS, I'm not Cathryn Conroy, that's who wrote the article.)

O.K you believe in a Devil who tortures sinners whom he loves, and they love him, to please a God he hates?
How does that makes any sense?

NuMessJew

[ibowatjesusfeet]

Originally posted by NuMessJew


O.K you believe in a Devil who tortures sinners whom he loves, and they love him, to please a God he hates?
How does that makes any sense?

NuMessJew

????

I don't believe that. I just posted an article that I found intresting.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ibowatjesusfeet


????

I don't believe that. I just posted an article that I found intresting.


"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by NuMessJew

"O.K you believe in a Devil who tortures sinners whom he loves, and they love him, to please a God he hates?
How does that makes any sense?"


Glad to hear, but I posted that hoping to hear from those who do believe in this silly idea.

Thanks,
NuMesJew

[ibowatjesusfeet]

lol,

Ok, NuMessJew, I thought (obviously) that you were reffering to me. Sorry about that, have a nice day!

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ibowatjesusfeet


Is this saying that only less intelligent people believe in God?


It depends on what you mean by God?

NuMessJew

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ebenz47037


Not in my opinion. It says that the majority of people who have graduated college (with the exception of Christian colleges) have been in the public education system too long and are brain-washed by political correctness.

(And, this is coming from someone who has no college degree. :D)

"(with the exception of Christian colleges) have been in the public education system too long and are brain-washed by political correctness."

Is it possible that they have been enlightend? That they see the facts differently than you. Why do you say they have been brainwashed?

NuMessJew

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Freak
More than a quarter of those who say they are not Christian do believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the Virgin birth.

Very interesting?!

Those same people believe in ghosts and aliens.

NuMessJew

[Goose]

Originally posted by NuMessJew
Is it possible that they have been enlightend? That they see the facts differently than you. Why do you say they have been brainwashed?

NuMessJew Pub schooling is anything but enlightening. It sucks the very life out of you.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Goose
Pub schooling is anything but enlightening. It sucks the very life out of you.

In public school I learned;
Mathematics
Science
Art
Music
English
Spanish
Greek
Latin
Hebrew
Psychology
History
Philosophy
Social science
Bible History
Yada yada yada

I’m sorry your experience was not as fulfilling. Perhaps you did take advantage of the opportunity you were given.

NuMessJew

[MisplacedHead]

I goto a Catholic High School, and if anything, it's made me question more parts of my faith than it has deepened them. I am still a firm believer in Jesus Christ, however, sometimes, I find it difficult to accept everything I am told to believe about God and religion. But this is what faith is for.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by MisplacedHead
I goto a Catholic High School, and if anything, it's made me question more parts of my faith than it has deepened them. I am still a firm believer in Jesus Christ, however, sometimes, I find it difficult to accept everything I am told to believe about God and religion. But this is what faith is for.

Questions are good. Don't be afraid of them.

NuMesssJew

[Goose]

Originally posted by NuMessJew


In public school I learned;
Mathematics
Science
Art
Music
English
Spanish
Greek
Latin
Hebrew
Psychology
History
Philosophy
Social science
Bible History
Yada yada yada

I’m sorry your experience was not as fulfilling. Perhaps you did take advantage of the opportunity you were given.

NuMessJew Pub school for me was just trying to keep all the kids out of trouble. Learning was secondary. Pub school is different then it was 35-40 years ago.

[Goose]

Originally posted by MisplacedHead
I goto a Catholic High School, and if anything, it's made me question more parts of my faith than it has deepened them. I am still a firm believer in Jesus Christ, however, sometimes, I find it difficult to accept everything I am told to believe about God and religion. But this is what faith is for. It's good to question your faith. God doesn't expect us to walk blindly. Keep the questions rolling, and always keep in mind that humans aren't perfect, but God is. Take care and God Bless

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Goose
Pub school for me was just trying to keep all the kids out of trouble. Learning was secondary. Pub school is different then it was 35-40 years ago.

Never to late to learn.

NuMessJew

[Goose]

Originally posted by NuMessJew


Never to late to learn.

NuMessJew I teach myself.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Goose
I teach myself.

Thats great! A mentor can save one steps.

NuMessJew

[Goose]

Originally posted by NuMessJew


Thats great! A mentor can save one steps.

NuMessJew Mentors are few and far between, I hate to say.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Goose
Mentors are few and far between, I hate to say.

True, but they exist. Don't give up.

NuMessJew

[Goose]

thanks

[Godless_One]

Originally posted by ebenz47037


Not in my opinion. It says that the majority of people who have graduated college (with the exception of Christian colleges) have been in the public education system too long and are brain-washed by political correctness.

(And, this is coming from someone who has no college degree. :D)

I'd disagree with you because I've gone to Catholic school my entire life, raised by Catholic parents, with Catholic friends, and through enough of my own thought, I've come to the conclusion that i do not believe in a god. Ideas such as 'god' or 'heaven' are merely tools of religion used as an incentive for believers to act morally. They use our human nature by turning something which we should do anyway into something we do for ourselves, for the promise of an eternal life. I know that the lives of others as well as my own would be better if people would act morally, and that's incentive enough for me.

So basically, there tends to be a greater number of college graduates who are atheist not because of brainwashing, but rather because they'd like to think for themselves.

(And, this is coming from a college-bound HS Student :P)]

[Godless_One]

Originally posted by MisplacedHead
I goto a Catholic High School, and if anything, it's made me question more parts of my faith than it has deepened them. I am still a firm believer in Jesus Christ, however, sometimes, I find it difficult to accept everything I am told to believe about God and religion. But this is what faith is for.

I also go to a Catholic High School, and I went through the same thing you are going through now. After enough thought, I determined that atheism was right for me. Even though i don't believe in God, I know that there are people who need God. I often think about how life would be better if I could believe that there was someone that makes all things possible and can give us hope when we can't find it anywhere else. So, go ahead and keep searching and you'll find what's right for you, whether it would be Catholicism, atheism, or any other system of beliefs.

[shilohproject]

Originally posted by Goose
Mentors are few and far between, I hate to say.

How does that old saying go: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear? Something like that...

[Goose]

Godless_One,

It seems like your problem is with false theology. Not with God.

[Godless_One]

Goose,

You're right, sure I think it'd be great if there was a god, but I can't bring myself to believe the idea of it with my current view of religion in general. That's how religion works, by offering us impossibly good things in exchange for right and just actions.

[Goose]

Well, isn't that jumping the gun? I mean, there could be a god or gods that don't offer that, but still created existence.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Godless_One
Goose,

You're right, sure I think it'd be great if there was a god, but I can't bring myself to believe the idea of it with my current view of religion in general. That's how religion works, by offering us impossibly good things in exchange for right and just actions.

Would you have a problem with seeing the idea of "God" as the first uncaused cause? If there is a begining there was something that begun it?...;-) We can see cause and effect in our own lives. Let's move away from anthropormorphisms.

NuMessJew

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Godless_One


I'd disagree with you because I've gone to Catholic school my entire life, raised by Catholic parents, with Catholic friends, and through enough of my own thought, I've come to the conclusion that i do not believe in a god. Ideas such as 'god' or 'heaven' are merely tools of religion used as an incentive for believers to act morally. They use our human nature by turning something which we should do anyway into something we do for ourselves, for the promise of an eternal life. I know that the lives of others as well as my own would be better if people would act morally, and that's incentive enough for me.

So basically, there tends to be a greater number of college graduates who are atheist not because of brainwashing, but rather because they'd like to think for themselves.

(And, this is coming from a college-bound HS Student :P)]

That's okay. We're allowed to disagree. I will tell you how I feel about it and you tell me how you feel about it. No problem. I don't act morally because of God or heaven. I treat others how I want to be treated. I put myself on a high moral standard because I grew up watching people who did the opposite. Sure, I believe in God and heaven. But, that's not why I act the way I do. But, the Bible is a great blue-print on how I should act. :D

And, Godless One, I think I like you. You speak your mind, yet you're respectful about it. :D

[Godless_One]

Originally posted by Goose
Well, isn't that jumping the gun? I mean, there could be a god or gods that don't offer that, but still created existence.

I also understand the fact that there are things unable to be explained by science, but I'm not going to rush to a conclusion by throwing in an idea of God to suddenly make anything possible. There could be a completely scientific explanation to the creation of the universe, but there's no sure way of knowing, so I'm not going to attach myself to any theories yet.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ebenz47037


That's okay. We're allowed to disagree. I will tell you how I feel about it and you tell me how you feel about it. No problem. I don't act morally because of God or heaven. I treat others how I want to be treated. I put myself on a high moral standard because I grew up watching people who did the opposite. Sure, I believe in God and heaven. But, that's not why I act the way I do. But, the Bible is a great blue-print on how I should act. :D

And, Godless One, I think I like you. You speak your mind, yet you're respectful about it. :D

"I treat others how I want to be treated. "
Sounds very religious to me...:-)" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" In fact is sounds downright religious.

NuMessJew

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Godless_One


I also understand the fact that there are things unable to be explained by science, but I'm not going to rush to a conclusion by throwing in an idea of God to suddenly make anything possible. There could be a completely scientific explanation to the creation of the universe, but there's no sure way of knowing, so I'm not going to attach myself to any theories yet.

Please explain what you mean by god?

NuMessJew

[Goose]

Originally posted by Godless_One


I also understand the fact that there are things unable to be explained by science, but I'm not going to rush to a conclusion by throwing in an idea of God to suddenly make anything possible. There could be a completely scientific explanation to the creation of the universe, but there's no sure way of knowing, so I'm not going to attach myself to any theories yet. Have you studied this is respect of the Laws of Thermodynamics?

[billwald]

"There could be a completely scientific explanation to the creation of the universe, but there's no sure way of knowing, so I'm not going to attach myself to any theories yet."

1. This is an agnostic, no an athiestic position.

2. Thermodynamics has nothing to do with the problem of first cause. This is a humbug raised by people who understand neither thermo or or the problem first cause. (Years ago I understood both but now every day I get a little stupider. Sign of old age. <G>)

[shilohproject]

Originally posted by billwald

Thermodynamics has nothing to do with the problem of first cause. This is a humbug raised by people who understand neither thermo or or the problem first cause.

This is exactly right.

(Years ago I understood both but now every day I get a little stupider. Sign of old age. <G>)

Me too!

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by NuMessJew


"I treat others how I want to be treated. "
Sounds very religious to me...:-)" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" In fact is sounds downright religious.

NuMessJew

But, I've been doing this since before I became a Christian. I didn't know it was in the Bible (never opened it before I became a Christian) until I became a Christian.

I grew up seeing too many people live by their own version of the golden rule: Do unto others before they do unto you. I didn't want to be that way. I felt that I would get along better in life if I treated people the way I wanted to be treated.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by ebenz47037


But, I've been doing this since before I became a Christian. I didn't know it was in the Bible (never opened it before I became a Christian) until I became a Christian.

I grew up seeing too many people live by their own version of the golden rule: Do unto others before they do unto you. I didn't want to be that way. I felt that I would get along better in life if I treated people the way I wanted to be treated.

Very nice.:-)

NuMessJew

[.Ant]

This is what your friends and neighbors believe in:

* God (as in he/she/it is a nice idea): 90 percent
* Miracles (as in things that are hard to explain, with a dash of political correctness): 89 percent
* Survival of the soul after death (as in, I don't want to die, it must be true): 84 percent
* Resurrection of Christ (as in, this seems to be a popular belief, I'd better tick the box): 80 percent
* Virgin birth (wouldn't want to alienate the Catholics, my aunt is Catholic, I'd better tick the box): 77 percent
* Devil (he might get me if I say I don't believe in him): 68 percent
* Hell (some people, like those sicko child-molesters, deserve to go there. But me? Of course not.): 69 percent
* Ghosts (see Miracles - I think UFOs are real too. Plus real Christians who count demons as ghosts): 51 percent
* Astrology (it works! Really!): 31 percent
* Reincarnation (see Survival of the soul after death, plus a dob of New Age philosophy): 27 percent

Where will you go after you die?

* Expect to go to heaven (I'd better darn well go there, after all this): 63 percent
* Expect to go to hell (scarily honest): 1 percent
* Expect to go to purgatory (Catholic influenced): 6 percent
* Expect to go someplace else (I make my own religion mixture): 11 percent
* Don't have a clue (honest): 18 percent

[Lion]

Here’s a good one.

I was talking to an elderly man the other day who claimed to be an atheist. After we talked for a few minutes he admitted he believed that he had been reincarnated several times, maybe thousands of times. He told me that animals don’t come back, only people. He then stated he believed in evolution.

So apparently Christians that get polled aren’t the only ones that are mixed up.

[Gerald]

Why is that odd, Lion?

An atheist, by definition, lacks a belief in dieties. One can believe in reincarnation without believing in dieties.

[NuMessJew]

Originally posted by Gerald
Why is that odd, Lion?

An atheist, by definition, lacks a belief in dieties. One can believe in reincarnation without believing in dieties.

"An atheist, by definition, lacks a belief in dieties. "

Most atheist I have spoken with reject the Christian view of a God. When presented with an alternative view such as a "first uncaused cause" many are intrigued by this alternative to the silly Christian anthropormorphic view. Others reject it also though.

"One can believe in reincarnation without believing in dieties."

Maybe? Depends on what you mean by dieties?

NuMessJew

[Zakath]

Originally posted by NuMessJew
Most atheist I have spoken with reject the Christian view of a God.Atheists generally reject any concept of a personal deity. That is a deity that is a self-aware individual entity.

When presented with an alternative view such as a "first uncaused cause" many are intrigued by this alternative to the silly Christian anthropormorphic view. Others reject it also though.This probably demonstrates the point that atheists are not monolithic in their beliefs.

There are differing degrees of atheist, just as there are different degrees of theism.