Bob proud of lynchings?

[jhodgeiii]

Below is an email I sent Bob a week and a half ago. Since this email probably got lost in the horde of emails in his inbox, I'm posting the content here.

Perhaps one of you can answer my question? I don't want to call into his show about this.

------------------------------------------------------------

Bob,

I just saw your "God and the Death Penalty" tape. It was well done, well documented, and well reasoned: classic Enyart stuff.

However, the last image the tape leaves the viewers with is that of an apparent lynching from a tree. Certainly, lynchings would violate God's criminal justice system, wouldn't it? Worse for me, it looked like a lynching of a black man in the South by a white mob. I recall many execution pictures like this one where blacks were scapegoated and lynched without a trial (or at least a just one). Because your tape gave no details on the execution, it leaves us to ponder.

I'm black and have no issues with executing murderers of any skin color. However, most of my friends are black [and Christian] and against the death penalty, yet should really see this tape. Now I don't want to lend it to them knowing that some (maybe all) will stumble on this very scene given the sensitivities of the past injustices and atrocities done to blacks here. Not to mention that now I will have to convince them all that you're not a racist.

What's going on here, Bob?

[Freak]

I think that is a fair question.

[PureX]

jhodgeiii,

I'm sure he was a GAY black man, so it's OK.

[Goose]

Originally posted by PureX
jhodgeiii,

I'm sure he was a GAY black man, so it's OK. They're the best dressers in the world.

[Jefferson]

I've got the video and just took another look at the end you referred to. It's not a lynching of a black man. It's a public hanging of a white man.

[jhodgeiii]

Jefferson,

Just took another long look. Unless you produced this video and actually know who the condemned man was, your answer was disingenuous, if not, laughable.

The *only* way that hanging guy could have been white is if he had a dark sack over his head during the execution, and in that case we wouldn't know one or the other.

Anyone *else* have the video?

Anyway, what's really at issue is whether this is a lynching. It sure seems so. The setting hints that the man was executed by city folk, given the crowd's formal attire, but he was executed on a *tree*. A government-authorized execution with no formal gallows, but instead a large tree?

It's more likely that was a mob, and therefore, should have no rightful place on this video.

[Jefferson]

jhodgeiii:

If that's a black man then he was a very light-skinned black man.

Bob teaches against any form of vigilanteism.

[Goose]

Originally posted by Jefferson
I've got the video and just took another look at the end you referred to. It's not a lynching of a black man. It's a public hanging of a white man. I've seen that video before too. It's not a black man.

[PureX]

Interesting how you all can see the same thing, and still see two different things. And then be so certain that what you saw was what is there.
*smile*

This would explain some of those descrepancies in the bible.

[jhodgeiii]

Purex, you're a fool. At best, you're off topic.

Everyone else on topic (with the video):

Regardless of the person's color, doesn't this look like a lynching? Yes, Bob DOES teach against vigilantism, but I question the judgment of whomever decided to place *this* particular execution into this video.

Bad choice. It's enough to stop me from buying more to pass on, unfortunately.

[PureX]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii Purex, you're a fool.

Ahhhh! That felt good typing that, didn't it? Gave you a little rush of righteousness, using the biblical insult, an all? Yep, that's the spirit!
*smile*

[Freak]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii
Jefferson,

Just took another long look. Unless you produced this video and actually know who the condemned man was, your answer was disingenuous, if not, laughable.

The *only* way that hanging guy could have been white is if he had a dark sack over his head during the execution, and in that case we wouldn't know one or the other.

Anyone *else* have the video?

Anyway, what's really at issue is whether this is a lynching. It sure seems so. The setting hints that the man was executed by city folk, given the crowd's formal attire, but he was executed on a *tree*. A government-authorized execution with no formal gallows, but instead a large tree?

It's more likely that was a mob, and therefore, should have no rightful place on this video.

Good points.

[Freak]

Originally posted by Jefferson
jhodgeiii:

If that's a black man then he was a very light-skinned black man.

Bob teaches against any form of vigilanteism.

So it is a black man, correct?

[Calvinist]

Originally posted by PureX


Ahhhh! That felt good typing that, didn't it? Gave you a little rush of righteousness, using the biblical insult, an all? Yep, that's the spirit!
*smile*

PureX, you're a fool.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

While stopping short of labeling the Enyart disciples and KGOV "racists", this looks like yet another example of total insensitivity on their part.
I listened to a Doug McBirney show about a year ago on KGOV and it sure smelled like bigotry to me but I'm sure I'll be told that that wasn't the intent at all.

[Poly]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
While stopping short of labeling the Enyart disciples and KGOV "racists", this looks like yet another example of total insensitivity on their part.
I listened to a Doug McBirney show about a year ago on KGOV and it sure smelled like bigotry to me but I'm sure I'll be told that that wasn't the intent at all.
It's pretty shallow to acuse somebody of bigotry with nothing to back it up except to say there was a show he did a year ago in which this seemed to be the case. You should have something more than this if you are going to make this kind of accusation about somebody.

[Knight]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
While stopping short of labeling the Enyart disciples and KGOV "racists", this looks like yet another example of total insensitivity on their part.
I listened to a Doug McBirney show about a year ago on KGOV and it sure smelled like bigotry to me but I'm sure I'll be told that that wasn't the intent at all. I happen to be good friends with Doug and I take offense to your comment.

You call Doug a bigot and you know nothing about him.

Your a fool - and you should apologize.

[Freak]

jhodgeiii, is a African-Amercian brother in Christ who has raised some reasonable concerns. I'm still waiting for someone to address his concerns.

[.Ant]

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo
It's pretty shallow to acuse somebody of bigotry with nothing to back it up except to say there was a show he did a year ago in which this seemed to be the case. You should have something more than this if you are going to make this kind of accusation about somebody.
They do have a reputation for insensitivity. I wouln't call them bigots; but I do think they are sometimes very insensitive.

[temple2006]

Jhodg.....The fools in this thread are not who you think they are.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Freak
jhodgeiii, is a African-Amercian brother in Christ who has raised some reasonable concerns. I'm still waiting for someone to address his concerns. It has been addressed.

[Zakath]

Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot?

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
It has been addressed.

It has? How? That "Bob teaches against vigilantism" but proudly displays vigilantism at the end of his tape?

Check out the scene, Knight. Call it a "public hanging" if you'd like, but even lynchings can be "public hangings" so that answer (whoever gave it) is lazy and insufficient.

Given the setting, the execution looks more like a mob lynching. If you cannot provide real details justifying this scene, then you cannot answer my question. It's as simple as that.

What you should do Knight is admit that you do not have the facts on the scene in question and that perhaps Bob used bad judgment including this questionable scene in his tape. If you can't admit that, then give me some FACTS.

* who was executed?
* when? and why?
* who carried out the execution?

[1Way]

4 am prayer - While stopping short of labeling the Enyart disciples and KGOV "racists", this looks like yet another example of total insensitivity on their part. So evidently you think we are a bunch of insensitivists. What a crock. We care deeply about what God teaches about the death penalty, which according to the topic at hand, is that capitol offenders should be swiftly (not prolonged torture) but painfully (like being stoned for example) put to death.

Examples of the death penalty carried out in scripture. This list is not exhaustive, nor deeply verified for the best examples. Leviticus 10:2 So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Numbers 15:36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Numbers 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods.
Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, "Why have you troubled us? The LORD will trouble you this day." So all Israel stoned him with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones. Wow, consider the following death by splattering a person from a supposed lethal fall, and then by trampling under foot of a horse, and then being eaten by dogs and without a respectful burial because God wanted it that way.

And you say WE are too insensitive. I suppose God here is just outright ravenously cruel and unjust. 2 Kings 9:30 Now when Jehu had come to Jezreel, Jezebel heard [of it]; and she put paint on her eyes and adorned her head, and looked through a window.
31 Then, as Jehu entered at the gate, she said, "Is it peace, Zimri, murderer of your master?"
32 And he looked up at the window, and said, "Who is on my side? Who?" So two or three eunuchs looked out at him.
33 Then he said, "Throw her down." So they threw her down, and some of her blood spattered on the wall and on the horses; and he trampled her underfoot.
34 And when he had gone in, he ate and drank. Then he said, "Go now, see to this accursed woman, and bury her, for she was a king's daughter."
35 So they went to bury her, but they found no more of her than the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands.
36 Therefore they came back and told him. And he said, "This is the word of the LORD, which He spoke by His servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, `On the plot of ground at Jezreel dogs shall eat the flesh of Jezebel;
37 `and the corpse of Jezebel shall be as refuse on the surface of the field, in the plot at Jezreel, so that they shall not say, "Here lies Jezebel."'"

Acts 12:23 Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died. If you go against God, apparently being bludgeoned to death (stoning, or in this case falling) is a Godly remedy. And many argue that execution by the sword is also acceptable even though it may take minuets to bleed to death unless you are decapitated, which seems to not be as much recommended in the scriptures, as apparently it is too swift and not as painful and slow as stoning for example.

Here’s some passages on lynching/hanging a person. Genesis 40:22 But he hanged the chief baker, as Joseph had interpreted to them.
Deuteronomy 21:21 "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
22 "If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,
23 "his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. Isn’t that a wild understatement! Just think of the ridicule and irony involved. As though being put to death by hanging was a blessed or honorable way to die. How could a person be much more accursed than to be put to death for a capitol offense? As far as being “cursed” goes, that is about as bad as it gets, unless of course you don’t give the capitol offender sufficient time to repent before he is put to death. Waiting in the gallows to die is highly redemptive motivation, see the two criminals at the cross for an example of it’s effectiveness. Joshua 8:29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until evening. And as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his corpse down from the tree, cast it at the entrance of the gate of the city, and raise over it a great heap of stones that remains to this day.
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua struck them and killed them, and hanged them on five trees; and they were hanging on the trees until evening.
2 Samuel 21:9 and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),

Romans 13:4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to [execute] wrath on him who practices evil. Gods fear causing minister, baring the sword with Godly purpose as an avenger to execute wrath (punish - repay) the criminal. I think that the sword as wrathful punishment for doing evil has to mean the death penalty, otherwise what would this passage be saying about the sword, that it is to be used for flogging, or as nothing more than a symbol of an outward appearance of lethal force, but never used that way? This passage is validating capitol punishment by use of the sword and since decapitation is no where clearly specified, one may assume that mortal wounds causing circulatory failure is acceptable.

So I don’t remotely get the sensitivity argument. No one is remotely supporting the wrongful treatment of blacks or any other people by anyone, and at the same time, we are supporting all of God’s teachings on the death penalty (which are not comprehensively stated in this post).

It seems to me that 4 am prayer’s comments, and jhodgeiii and perhaps others are prejudiced or at best ignorant.

(All scripture quotes from the NKJV)

[1Way]

Knight – Please forgive me for answering posts directed at you. I don’t want to discourage your input, I’d rather encourage it!

As to jhodgeiii’s statement to Knight. Given the setting, the execution looks more like a mob lynching. If you cannot provide real details justifying this scene, then you cannot answer my question. It's as simple as that. So you determine that there is not enough evidence to go one way or the other, but you seem to insist that it is a presentation supporting arguably the most cruel racist unjust treatment of blacks, even though the entire video presentation promotes scriptural teachings on this topic.

I don’t have the facts on the scene in the video, but I have heard credible testimony that it was not a black racist hanging. Business people in a public hanging is not the picture of a criminal lynching that we might imagine from white hooded KKK members for example. I heard that the producer of the video said that it was a white person being executed, so for you to assume that it was instead a black person being unjustly lynched, seems not credible.

Do you have ANY responses to the several claims in support that it was a white person being hanged?


- His skin was very light
- He may have been wearing a black facial hood
- The scene is not typical of an illegal racial lynching
- The entire video's message and BEL’s ministry deplores such a terrible injustice as illegally hanging anyone
- Suppose it was a black man that was being hung, why would you automatically think that the hanging was unjust or representative of unjust lynchings?
- Why don’t you rather assume that the graphic representations were chose to be consistent with the teachings and style of the producers instead of contrary to them? Or do you suggest that Bob has problems with racism and has no clearly expressed convictions against such an unloving and unrighteous thing?


But imagine that you were right in that there is not sufficient evidence to decide one way or the other, even then, in light of then videos teaching, that doubt would not be enough to warrant your accusations of racism and extreme cruelty (or insensitivity) that you are alleging. It seems to me that it is you who is being insensitive to the fact that the entire message of the video would completely condemn the notion that you think this one scene seems to promote. Ignorance is forgivable, it's outgrown all the time.(!) Praise God.

Zakath – As to your comment to Knight. Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot? I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there. Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways). But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets.

[Knight]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii
It has? How? That "Bob teaches against vigilantism" but proudly displays vigilantism at the end of his tape? Uhg....

Be offended if you like, but your wasting your time and your emotions. Bob and Doug are not racists, not even remotely!

About the image.....What makes you think the image is one of vigilantism? It looks to me like an image of a public execution. A full town of people, all dressed up in their Sunday best hanging a criminal in broad daylight!

Keep in mind.... the video is about the death penalty!!! :doh:

The video covers everything from the proper way to execute people, to improper ways to execute people.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Zakath
Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot? I almost made a point like this..... but I didn't want to mudddy the waters. I think we all know what type of bigot is being discussed here.

[Knight]

1Way - great posts! (as usual) :D

[1Way]

Knight – But jhodgeiii’s has “potentially” found a graphic that in his mind somehow “symbolizes” exactly against the Godly principles the video teaches. Isn’t the rule that symbols trump over substance, and not the other way around?

So shouldn’t we get rid of all Bibles because it depicts many horrendous deeds of extreme treachery and injustice and even racism? These graphic depictions are rather offensive to many people you know!

Oh ya, and remember that the entire earth’s population is effectively dumbed down when it comes to contextual relevance and the big picture. For example, as long as the phrase “separation of church and state” was penned way back when, it must mean that the two were mutually exclusive to each other, even though the contextual use shows nearly the exact opposite while basically everyone does nothing against the fraudulent claim. All we have to do anymore is claim that some injustice has been done, and the conservative right is supposed to just lay down and surrender in hopes of not stepping on any one’s sensibilities.

“So what” if the video’s message is fully against wrongful capitol offense executions, the paranoid reaction of an ignorant person (perhaps willfully ignorant) trumps the truth in reality, , , right?

Finding a fault where no fault (clearly) lies, isn’t that what it means to backbit and to cause unnecessary strife and division (amongst the brethren)?

[1Way]

Opps, did I just prejudice that jhodgeiii is a Christian?

Sorry jhodgeiii, I don't know what you are, and if you are not a saved believer in Christ, sorry for assuming that you might be.

And if you are not a saved person, then perhaps that is your problem with readily grasping spiritual truth and for judging against righteous brethren.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Get your heart ready for some eternal life saving truth! Don’t oppose God’s eternal and saving truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Accept it and His personal offer for salvation.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

You don’t have to become perfect you just have to undergo a heart and mind change that is all triggered by a simple act of faith, in fact, your works have nothing to do with getting or remaining saved.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

And if you just can’t stand these suggestions, then I guess you are a swine and an unfit dog.

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Do right, trust God, He is worth it all.

PS - Is jhodgeiii some biblical concept promoting Godly principles or? What is the significance of your handle?

[1Way]

Bye all, I wont be back for another week or so. A week filled with adventure and the open road stretching out across America. (OTR truck driver. smile) I'm going to Texas, , , Say, Paul and Tal , , , I think I might be coming through your neck of the woods again! Probably sometime tomorrow evening or so. And I might be coming back up your way after delivery sometime Tuesday morning! Maybe we could try meeting again.

I wish I could meet Paul and Tal or and any other BEL supporters in a quick meeting somewhere near the interstate. I met Jobeth from “TOL” that way once in Georgia! Unfortunately, I do not know where in Texas I am going yet. So I can’t yet say for sure which route I will take.

See how disorganized I am, I should have the names and phone numbers of the people I’m wanting to meet before I leave! Details details.

[1Way]

Ok city, it would be monday night, not earlier. Bye.

[Poly]

Is OKC as close as you are going to get to the Tulsa area?

[Zakath]

Originally posted by 1Way
Zakath – As to your comment to Knight.Thank you for answering in his place. :rolleyes:

I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there. Foolse, swine, and unfit dogs?

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. " - Mt. 5:22

"He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour." - Mt. 15:26-28

It's good that your Jesus had more concern for the lost than his followers in these days...

Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways). Intolerance tends to close the door.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. " Mt. 23:15

But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets. So you hope, since it justifies your intolerance. :rolleyes:

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by 1Way
As to jhodgeiii’s statement to Knight. So you determine that there is not enough evidence to go one way or the other, but you seem to insist that it is a presentation supporting arguably the most cruel racist unjust treatment of blacks, even though the entire video presentation promotes scriptural teachings on this topic.
I'm only going by what I see. I'm not color- or shade-blind so I'm not being hypocritical here if that's what you're implying.
Business people in a public hanging is not the picture of a criminal lynching that we might imagine from white hooded KKK members for example.
This is where your ignorance on lynchings shows. Take a look at this link and see all the "business people" at these lynchings:
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm (I'm not endorsing the other content of this website BTW)
Do you have ANY responses to the several claims in support that it was a white person being hanged?


- His skin was very light
- He may have been wearing a black facial hood
I reject the first argument. You can't even see his skin (which is completely covered with clothing) other than his "face." And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE note that I never insisted that the guy was black, but that he appeared to be, assuming that his head wasn't covered with a dark hood.
- The scene is not typical of an illegal racial lynching
A hanging from a tree is not typical of an illegal racial lynching? You're kidding, right?
The entire video's message and BEL’s ministry deplores such a terrible injustice as illegally hanging anyone
This is true. This video gives great arguments on righteous execution. I only question the scene of choice the producers of the tape decided to leave the viewer with. It leaves too much to ponder, especially for us blacks.
Suppose it was a black man that was being hung, why would you automatically think that the hanging was unjust or representative of unjust lynchings?
Perhaps because I've seen many, many photos of unjust lynchings similar to this setting???
- Why don’t you rather assume that the graphic representations were chose to be consistent with the teachings and style of the producers instead of contrary to them?
Actually, I did give the scene the benefit of the doubt, knowing Bob's nature. It's upsetting, however, that a tape so well done had to be marred with an ambiguous ending scene reminding us blacks of an unjust, painful history. Perhaps if blacks were the majority and years ago whites were unrighteously hung from trees among smiling blacks you would understand.
Or do you suggest that Bob has problems with racism and has no clearly expressed convictions against such an unloving and unrighteous thing?
I'll make it clear that Bob is NOT a racist. Bob is a role model for me, and I'd never want to slander his ministry. I credit him for my Christian fervency. However, being black and having mostly black friends, I KNOW that this scene will cause blacks to stumble. I really, really wish that the producers had used a different scene.
It seems to me that it is you who is being insensitive to the fact that the entire message of the video would completely condemn the notion that you think this one scene seems to promote. Ignorance is forgivable, it's outgrown all the time.(!) Praise God.
You do not understand the spirit of my letter to Bob. If by this point you still don't, then I will forgive your ignorance, brother.
I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there. Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways). But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets.
I pray that your diatribe edifies someone else because I have been a Bible-believing Christian since age 13, thank you. You know, one thing about Bob is that he seems to have a gift for revealing unbelievers. I can clearly see that you lack this gift 1WAY.

Have a nice trip and see you when you get back.

[Jefferson]

If there is someone on this forum who is a member of the church Bob pastors please ask him where he got that photograph. From a book? From a website? Then we could possibly track down the real story behind the picture instead of just speculating and guessing about it.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Jefferson
If there is someone on this forum who is a member of the church Bob pastors please ask him where he got that photograph. From a book? From a website? Then we could possibly track down the real story behind the picture instead of just speculating and guessing about it. I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.

[Goose]

Originally posted by Knight
I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's. It depends on what your definition of 'white' is, Knight. ;) :D

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.
Any details of the like that Jefferson mentions? If I have a source, I could preempt misinterpretation of this scene for those whom I want to show this tape.

For myself, race really isn't the issue, but the rightfulness of the execution IS. If you could even give me just the book it came from I would dig up the details myself.

[Knight]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii

Any details of the like that Jefferson mentions? If I have a source, I could preempt misinterpretation of this scene for those whom I want to show this tape.

For myself, race really isn't the issue, but the rightfulness of the execution IS. If you could even give me just the book it came from I would dig up the details myself. I think I have taken this as far (even further) than I care to.

Please call Bob if you wish to have any further details. Thanks!

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
I think I have taken this as far (even further) than I care to.
Very well, Knight. I see how far your love for the brethren of color goes. I'll just make life simpler and just not distribute the tape.

It's too bad since this tape, which I'd like to purchase more of, is one way Bob's ministry gets supported.

For the record, my email to Bob went unreplied.

[Freak]

Our brother makes a good point:

Actually, I did give the scene the benefit of the doubt, knowing Bob's nature. It's upsetting, however, that a tape so well done had to be marred with an ambiguous ending scene reminding us blacks of an unjust, painful history. Perhaps if blacks were the majority and years ago whites were unrighteously hung from trees among smiling blacks you would understand.

Bob could be senstive to this and for the sake of the gospel simply remove this particular scene in question. jhodgeiii, is a supporter of Bob's ministry and seems to genuinely be concerned about this one part of the video. Why doesn't Bob just remove that one part so his African-American Christian brothers don't stumble.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

Originally posted by Knight
I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.

I guess we were all mistaken but none of the KGOV'ers seems concerned that a black brother in Christ Jesus has an issue here.
:rolleyes:

the whole Enyart ministry and especially his followers repeatedly give off an almost neo-Klan mindset and yet they go to such lengths to deny, what at least appears to be the case.
I went to a Klan rally in Crawfordsville, IN as part of a graduate program study several years ago. They didn't drop the "N' word as I had thought; rather it was "faggot", "homos", affirmative action in all its forms is destroying the white man, these "hairy legged" women need to get back in the home and raise 'chillin', etc, etc, it was like Klan lite politically correct which is how I see the whole Enyart ministry based on Bob and Doug's shows and the comments of folks on board here.
If you have a defense, we are all willing to listen and I will say that perhaps I should get the log out of my own eye before I criticize others but your self-righteous 'hatred' is wearing thin with me.

A gay lifestyle a sin? I believe it is, like so many other sins.
Too many Christians have a watered down "faith"? Couldn't agree more!

Bottom line? Our black brother has an issue and the whole insensitive lot of you are blowing off his concern because you guys/gals are so caught up you're confusing a walk with our Lord with rationalizing your unique "ministry".

[Goose]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii
For the record, my email to Bob went unreplied. You'd get a guaranteed reply if you called into his show at KGOV.com

[Knight]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii

Very well, Knight. I see how far your love for the brethren of color goes. I'll just make life simpler and just not distribute the tape.

It's too bad since this tape, which I'd like to purchase more of, is one way Bob's ministry gets supported.

For the record, my email to Bob went unreplied. You have got to be kidding me!!!!

This thread blows my mind.

The responses given to you to this point more than answer EVERY single concern you have raised, I even went to the trouble to call Bob myself and ask him the question for you (which you could have done long ago). What more do you want me to do? The picture is not of a black man being lynched by racists! What else needs to be said???

Do you not believe what Bob told me about the image?

It seems to me you are bound and determined to make an issue out of a non issue.

If I had raised a similar concern and then later found out I was mistaken I would just say...."cool, thanks for letting me know, I am relieved".

[Knight]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
Bottom line? Our black brother has an issue and the whole insensitive lot of you are blowing off his concern because you guys/gals are so caught up you're confusing a walk with our Lord with rationalizing your unique "ministry". Blowing off his concern???

Are you serious?

Has reality slipped past you gentlemen?

Three or four different people responded to his concern and then I actually called Bob myself and asked Bob about the question for jhodgeiii. If that constitutes "blowing him off" I am not sure I understand your definition of "blowing somebody off".

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Knight
Blowing off his concern???

Are you serious?

Has reality slipped past you gentlemen?

Three or four different people responded to his concern and then I actually called Bob myself and asked Bob about the question for jhodgeiii. If that constitutes "blowing him off" I am not sure I understand your definition of "blowing somebody off". Exactly. A false accusation of racism is just as sinful as racism itself.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Jefferson
Exactly. A false accusation of racism is just as sinful as racism itself. I don't mind the original question. I am sure it was a legitimate concern. However, at this point I think its pretty clear the image was not an image of a racially motivated murder.

Therefore, I am not sure why some are insisting on pressing the issue.

[Goose]

The cry of racism is a disease. It's counter-productive. I've known Knight for a little over a year, and I've never heard him say anything even remotely racist.

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
I don't mind the original question. I am sure it was a legitimate concern. However, at this point I think its pretty clear the image was not an image of a racially motivated murder.
The problem is that it will NOT be clear to those I would like to send the tape to!

This is too frustrating. If you guys weren't so blinded by your arrogance and defensiveness, you would have understood my main purpose for bringing the post up by now.

Look, it would have helped if a simple caption was used beneath the hanging photo telling what was happening. Something like, "1845 Public Hanging of rapist Jack Smiley, Hampton Courthouse." Just this alone would strip the ambiguity of the scene.

Maybe you whites don't need this, but we blacks are very sensitive to lynchings. The blacks I want to send this tape to don't know Bob Enyart. I'm telling you that even with the previous content of the tape, once most blacks see that last photo, the hurtful memories will fly and they will overshadow Bob's entire message. Believe me; I know this having lived in black communities all my life. Racial issues make us stumble really bad. To think how great a tool this could have been to black Christians except for one simple scene at the end! It's a shame, but not shame on Bob Enyart. It's a shame that our humanity sometimes overshadows truth, but that's the way it is given the past racial atrocities. I simply wish Bob would replace, remove, or append the final scene with text for our sake, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I'm done with this thread. I know that I still haven't gotten anywhere with this. But I've learned a lesson: Being black, I know what NOT to talk about in TOL forums. The apostle Paul suggested being sensitive to your brothers' weaknesses so that they do not stumble. I see that you guys can care less.

Have fun debating amongst yourselves.

[Knight]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii
Maybe you whites don't need this, but we blacks are very sensitive to lynchings.Now WHO is the racist? :rolleyes:

You continue...It's a shame that our humanity sometimes overshadows truth, but that's the way it is given the past racial atrocities. I simply wish Bob would replace, remove, or append the final scene with text for our sake, but I'm not going to hold my breath.How many times do I need to tell you? Its not a picture of a black person being lynched by a group of racists! Your the ONLY person that has ever even asserted such a thing!

You continue...I'm done with this thread. I know that I still haven't gotten anywhere with this. But I've learned a lesson: Being black, I know what NOT to talk about in TOL forums. The apostle Paul suggested being sensitive to your brothers' weaknesses so that they do not stumble. I see that you guys can care less.Care less?????

Are you serious????

If we didn't care about your concern we would have simply ignored you!

4 people responded to your concerns and then I actually called Bob myself (for you) to verify the content of the image.

It is YOU who is being totally unreasonable. I am really not sure what you expected us to do for you. Nobody here at TOL has anything to do with the tape in question, however we DID respond to your concerns and completely neutralized your original concern.

Apparently you are determined to be a victim.

[naima]

Originally posted by Jefferson
Exactly. A false accusation of racism is just as sinful as racism itself.

My suggestion that McBirney was a racially insensitive buffoon (racist, I don't know, I said there was at least an appearence that could be interpreted as such) stems from one of his shows about a year ago about a black inmate who was talking, from what I remember, a mouth full of crapola so we are probably in agreement that this guy was no poster child.
However McBirney musters up some weak magpie of a "street jive" stereotyped 'black' voice and procedes to parody this black inmate on and on.
I never called him a racist, but many people would say he appears to be.

Jefferson, we've got the annual Black Expo here in Indy that I'm sure you're aware of (and Goose, doesn't he live in Indy as well?)
Have you ever been? Would you like to attend sometime?

[Goose]

Originally posted by naima
Jefferson, we've got the annual Black Expo here in Indy that I'm sure you're aware of (and Goose, doesn't he live in Indy as well?)
Have you ever been? Would you like to attend sometime? Black Expo? Why would I want to further racism. Actually, I'm going up to South Bend soon to listen to a black speaker. And not because he's black, but because he's a good speaker.

[novice]

Originally posted by naima
Jefferson, we've got the annual Black Expo here in Indy that I'm sure you're aware of (and Goose, doesn't he live in Indy as well?)
Have you ever been? Would you like to attend sometime? I assume you will also be attending the "White Expo"?

[Goose]

Originally posted by novice
I assume you will also be attending the "White Expo"? The White Expo is racist. The Black Expo is ok.

white bad
black good

[Poly]

Black heritage month good
White heritage month bad

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii

Look, it would have helped if a simple caption was used beneath the hanging photo telling what was happening. Something like, "1845 Public Hanging of rapist Jack Smiley, Hampton Courthouse." Just this alone would strip the ambiguity of the scene.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Maybe they'll do that in the next batch. In the meantime, a paper insert explaining the situation could be included with the tapes that have already been made, but have yet to be distributed. Just an idea...

[novice]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack


This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Maybe they'll do that in the next batch. In the meantime, a paper insert explaining the situation could be included with the tapes that have already been made, but have yet to be distributed. Just an idea... I would say that is unreasonable.

Why?

Because there is NO reason to think the image is a racist hanging.

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by naima
Jefferson, we've got the annual Black Expo here in Indy that I'm sure you're aware of (and Goose, doesn't he live in Indy as well?)
Have you ever been? Would you like to attend sometime? Nope, never attended. Wouldn't mind attending. Have you ever heard Bob and Tom's parody of The White Trash Expo?

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by novice
I would say that is unreasonable.

Why?

Because there is NO reason to think the image is a racist hanging.

Some people are more sensitive (and less reasonable) than others. If it can clear up any possible ambiguity, I don't see how it could hurt.

[.Ant]

4 A.M.prayer has it right.

I don't think Bob, Doug, Knight or anyone we've been talking about is racist. However, I do think that Bob and Doug show many signs of insensitivity. Knight, you are probably right that picture is a public execution of a white man. But that's not the point - the point is that the image is interpreted as being very offensive. Why not just remove it? It doesn't add *that* much value to the video, surely? Or at least add a caption, as jhodgeiii suggested.


Originally posted by novice
I would say that is unreasonable.

Why?

Because there is NO reason to think the image is a racist hanging.
Well, obviously you're wrong, because some people do think it is a racist lynching, at least at first glance.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

Originally posted by Jefferson
Nope, never attended. Wouldn't mind attending. Have you ever heard Bob and Tom's parody of The White Trash Expo?

hats off to Poly for her/his comments. Jefferson, Bob & Tom have NO alligence to religion, let alone Christianity. Tom, in particular, is a "north-side" Carmel Republican agnostic; they live comfortably, with no issues, in short, they make me 'puke'.

Please understand that these morons offer nothing in the way of our Lord's message of Salvation....I respect some of your posts Jefferson, I would think that you would'nt see thru their "schlock"...

[Freak]

Originally posted by Goose
The cry of racism is a disease. It's counter-productive. I've known Knight for a little over a year, and I've never heard him say anything even remotely racist.

:thumb:

[Freak]

Originally posted by .Ant
4 A.M.prayer has it right.

I don't think Bob, Doug, Knight or anyone we've been talking about is racist. However, I do think that Bob and Doug show many signs of insensitivity. Knight, you are probably right that picture is a public execution of a white man. But that's not the point - the point is that the image is interpreted as being very offensive. Why not just remove it? It doesn't add *that* much value to the video, surely? Or at least add a caption, as jhodgeiii suggested.



Well, obviously you're wrong, because some people do think it is a racist lynching, at least at first glance.

Exactly! This was the point I believe our Christian brother is trying to get at. He's not calling anyone racist, he is simply questioning the use of a scene that could possibly offend our African-American brothers who love Jesus.

You said: Knight, you are probably right that picture is a public execution of a white man. But that's not the point - the point is that the image is interpreted as being very offensive. Why not just remove it? It doesn't add *that* much value to the video, surely? Or at least add a caption, as jhodgeiii suggested.

Great points!

[naima]

Originally posted by novice
I assume you will also be attending the "White Expo"?

Every year; it's called the Indiana State Fair.

All the TOL regulars comments regarding the Black Expo clearly show their insensitivity in this, the lynching controversy, McBirney's jive parody, you name it.

TOL (and KGOV) should post a warning to everyone before they enter along the lines of: "ALL non-white, non-American visitors may be offended by some of the opinions and dialogue herein." :rolleyes:

[Freak]

Originally posted by naima


Every year; it's called the Indiana State Fair.

All the TOL regulars comments regarding the Black Expo clearly show their insensitivity in this, the lynching controversy, McBirney's jive parody, you name it.

TOL (and KGOV) should post a warning to everyone before they enter along the lines of: "ALL non-white, non-American visitors may be offended by some of the opinions and dialogue herein." :rolleyes:

Naima, I'm sadden to hear this. I'm still wanting some clarification regarding our African-American brother concerns'.

[Knight]

Originally posted by naima


Every year; it's called the Indiana State Fair.

All the TOL regulars comments regarding the Black Expo clearly show their insensitivity in this, the lynching controversy, McBirney's jive parody, you name it.

TOL (and KGOV) should post a warning to everyone before they enter along the lines of: "ALL non-white, non-American visitors may be offended by some of the opinions and dialogue herein." :rolleyes: Please keep your slander off our forum.

Feel free to visit other forums and not return.

[Knight]

Originally posted by .Ant
4 A.M.prayer has it right.

I don't think Bob, Doug, Knight or anyone we've been talking about is racist. However, I do think that Bob and Doug show many signs of insensitivity. Knight, you are probably right that picture is a public execution of a white man.Probably right????

What do you mean "probably right"?

I called Bob myself (for jhodgeiii) and got it straight from the source. It's a picture of a legal public lynging of a white man in the late 1800's somewhere in the mid-west.


You continue....But that's not the point - the point is that the image is interpreted as being very offensive. The image was wrongly interpreted by one person. Should an author of a novel retract all of his already published books because one person wrongly interprets a line within the book?

You continue...Why not just remove it? It doesn't add *that* much value to the video, surely? Or at least add a caption, as jhodgeiii suggested.First off.... it isn't my tape!!!! Why can't jhodgeiii call Bob himself and express his concern? Secondly.... the tape has already been produced, I am guessing that there are literally thousands of those tapes pre-made sitting on a shelf somewhere. Is it really that reasonable to have them all destroyed and start over just because ONE person wrongly interpreted an image on the tape?

You continue...Well, obviously you're wrong, because some people do think it is a racist lynching, at least at first glance. "Some people"?

Let's be accurate shall we.... one person wrongly thought the image was of a racist lynching.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Freak


Naima, I'm sadden to hear this. I'm still wanting some clarification regarding our African-American brother concerns'. Freak... have you been reading this thread????

We have only given clarification about 19 times! :doh:

[Goose]

Originally posted by naima


Every year; it's called the Indiana State Fair.

All the TOL regulars comments regarding the Black Expo clearly show their insensitivity in this, the lynching controversy, McBirney's jive parody, you name it.

TOL (and KGOV) should post a warning to everyone before they enter along the lines of: "ALL non-white, non-American visitors may be offended by some of the opinions and dialogue herein." :rolleyes: Naima: Another dillusional self-inflicted victim of racism.

[Freak]

I see the clairification but alittle sensitvity to our brother should be in order.

Our brother should now take these concerns directly to the one who produced these tapes.

[Poly]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer


hats off to Poly for her/his comments.
Her, HER, HER!!

BTW...what comments? I never really made any.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

Originally posted by Jefferson
Nope, never attended. Wouldn't mind attending. Have you ever heard Bob and Tom's parody of The White Trash Expo?

Thanks for responding Jefferson. Many years ago when I went to Black Expo for the first time, I was very surprised. Many cool and interesting things to see; I was welcomed and made to feel a part of everything.

In Goose's words what actually may further racism is for white folks to purposely stay away from events like the Black Expo in droves.

No, I've not heard the Bob and Tom parody; I used to think some of their bits were funny but I no longer listen to them. I honestly feel that as Christians, we should avoid the crapola they trowel out as "entertainment" on an almost daily basis. :)

[Goose]

Originally posted by Poly

Her, HER, HER!!

BTW...what comments? I never really made any. LOL Gender probs again Poly?

[Poly]

Originally posted by Goose
LOL Gender probs again Poly?
Well, not a problem for me anyway.:D

[Goose]

Originally posted by Poly

Well, not a problem for me anyway.:D hehe That's good Poly! Very good!

[1Way]

Well, the racially enhanced poster seemed to have left the house, to which I am glad, BUT, I prepared a response for him and I hate to see it go to waste, so here it is for prosparities sake, and for defending against some of his ill will toward me.

Jhodgeiii – As to you quoting me saying, Why don’t you rather assume that the graphic representations were chose to be consistent with the teachings and style of the producers instead of contrary to them? and then you saying. Actually, I did give the scene the benefit of the doubt, knowing Bob's nature. It's upsetting, however, that a tape so well done had to be marred with an ambiguous ending scene reminding us blacks of an unjust, painful history. Perhaps if blacks were the majority and years ago whites were unrighteously hung from trees among smiling blacks you would understand. You are amazing. So, if a teaching tape was against say racism and the holocaust, and at the end of the tape it showed a clip of a concentration camp scene, that would somehow be wrong or in poor taste? Even then, no, it would not be wrong or in poor taste, it would just be more on topic material. Unless of course Bob would communicate somehow that he promoted the holocaust, which is nearly as absurd as your paranoia.

As to I'll make it clear that Bob is NOT a racist. Bob is a role model for me, and I'd never want to slander his ministry. I credit him for my Christian fervency. However, being black and having mostly black friends, I KNOW that this scene will cause blacks to stumble. I really, really wish that the producers had used a different scene. I wondered if you were hyper sensitive on the race issue. As far as racial colors are concerned, I am white, but I know that unjust prejudice and murder are wrong and I abhor them just as much as any black or brown or yellow (etc.) person. But my point is - for you to say that (generally) black people will be as prejudicially biased and lacking objectivity towards this issue as you are, is rather telling. I really really wish you would get over your paranoia and victim mentality and wishful imaginations of some unspoken nonexistent super sick message.

As to I pray that your diatribe edifies someone else because I have been a Bible-believing Christian since age 13, thank you. You know, one thing about Bob is that he seems to have a gift for revealing unbelievers. I can clearly see that you lack this gift 1WAY. As if the entire paragraph did not fully demonstrate who I was talking about in terms of specific individuals, or generally the world. I did not intend any suggestion that you personally were not saved. However, you did this “glad to imagine a non-existent offense” thing to Bob, so why should I (another whitey) be surprised that “you” would do it to me too?

You want to see things wrongly because of your own vile spite, be your guest,

that seems to be your “gift”.

As to For myself, race really isn't the issue, but the rightfulness of the execution IS. If you could even give me just the book it came from I would dig up the details myself. What a load of crap. You said that you would never want to slander Bob’s ministry, but you see a clip that you are not sure clearly represents a righteous legal execution, or an illegal lynching, and so without ANY logical or reasonable cause, you assume that the clip is wrong so much so that you don’t even recommend the video. You are obviously judging that this “questionable” clip may represent a terrible injustice, so you are slandering Bob in the largest of ways, and you are cutting down your own intelligence at the same time, and apparently all people of color, because, unless you know the following two things for certain, (that’s two with a “T”)

it was an unjust lynching,

and

you know that Bob was promoting such a terrible thing,

then you (or ANYONE, even people of COLOR) have no reason to believe your false concern that it is supporting an unjust execution, which is obviously “murder”, and also smacks of some of the worlds worst sorts of racism and wickedness.


Two things, you know that it was an unjust lynching AND the video promoted it anyway.

We all know that these two things are not true, and so we also know your complaint is also false.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Freak
I see the clairification but alittle sensitvity to our brother should be in order. Uhg... :mad:

[4 A.M. Prayer]

IWay, Knight, etc.

jhodgeii continues to voice legitimate concerns...

you, and the, perhaps, complete Enyart ministry conglomerate are all white.

I am white...

Why can't we all admit that we can't feel jhodgeii's concerns.

The whole Enyart ministry seems insensitive to anyone of color.

Why not just admit that, while not racist , you are incapable of dealing with this issue and stop the "you're wrong, we're right, we've tried to help you, you just don't understand" crapola..

[Goose]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
The whole Enyart ministry seems insensitive to anyone of color.
Bob is going to be speaking at the same convention as a black speaker will be there, this next weekend in South Bend. They'll probably be speaking for the same topic. :rolleyes:

[Knight]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
IWay, Knight, etc.

jhodgeii continues to voice legitimate concerns...Such as?????

You continue...The whole Enyart ministry seems insensitive to anyone of color.How so? The image is NOT A BLACK MAN BEING LYNCHED YOU IGNORAMUS! I mean really..... how stupid are you?

The image bears no resemblance to a racist lynching.

You continue....Why not just admit that, while not racist , you are incapable of dealing with this issue and stop the "you're wrong, we're right, we've tried to help you, you just don't understand" crapola.. Did it ever occur to you that jhodgeii might not even a Bob Enyart fan and might not even a black man? I can't imagine any honest fan simply not saying.... "Oh thanks for the clarification" or maybe calling Bob himself to get further clarification.

But to you 4 AM prayer....... EVERYONE is a racist!

Forget the facts, forget the testimony..... every white guy is a racist.

[1Way]

I guess 4 am just will not consider what is really going on. ... unless you know the following two things for certain, (that’s two with a “T”)

it was an unjust lynching,

and

you know that Bob was promoting such a terrible thing,

then you (or ANYONE, even people of COLOR) have no reason to believe your false concern that it is supporting an unjust execution, which is obviously “murder”, and also smacks of some of the worlds worst sorts of racism and wickedness.


Again,

Two things, (1) you know that it was an unjust lynching AND (2) the video promoted it favorably.

We all know that these two things are not true, and so we also know your complaint is also false. Are you going to continue to run away from this issue in favor of the self inflicted pain of unnecessary grief and strife to divide the brethren?

If you aren’t being purposefully subversive, then respond to the two points that remain against your view. No one likes a whiner, especially one that willfully ignores the truth of the matter.

[1Way]

Knight - People can get so stuck into themselves that they can't see the writing on the wall if their life depended on it. Say, I just got that exact tape today(!!!!!!), I'll be interested to see this terrible clip and how it may carelessly promotes monstrous wickedness, and damage a viewers feelings and sensibilities.

Three vids and three audio albums, a hat and an article pack. But wait, what if I am not sure what sort of execution is going on in that clip? There does seem to be some uncertainty about the issue you know. Perhaps if that clip is not crystal clear to me, then it may cause me to loose touch of what is right and wrong, I might just imagine all sorts of wicked things are being promoted. Hmmm,,, I don’t know. Maybe I should not watch the video, that “person of color”, and that white prayer guy thinks it may cause some to become unnecessarily offended and create pain and division. Wow, what to do. (?)

[1Way]

Ok, so for these two posters who were opposing the photo,

for them it would be wrong for a white racist to treat blacks with unjust negative prejudice,

but

it’s ok for them to foster and promote an unjust negative judgment against a white man based on nothing clearly morally wrong. Again, if the argument is all about some symbolism possibly offending someone, then you would have to throw out the bible, it is jam packed with substantial and terribly offensive material that would make Bob’s photo look like a powder puff piece.

[naima]

Originally posted by Knight

You continue...How so? The image is NOT A BLACK MAN BEING LYNCHED YOU IGNORAMUS! I mean really..... how stupid are you? I THINK ENYART'S BLACK SUPPORTER REALIZES THIS, BUT THAT DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE HIS ISSUE. AS TO YOUR NAME-CALLING YOUNGSTER, I AM REMINDED OF 'FREAK'S' COMMENT LAST WEEK ABOUT BEING LED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN ONE SPEAKS

The image bears no resemblance to a racist lynching.

You continue....Did it ever occur to you that jhodgeii might not even a Bob Enyart fan and might not even a black man? I can't imagine any honest fan simply not saying.... "Oh thanks for the clarification" or maybe calling Bob himself to get further clarification.
WELL IF THIS WERE THE CASE HE WOULD BE AN ANNOYING BUSYBODY TO ALL OF US THEN WOULDN'T HE?

But to you 4 AM prayer....... EVERYONE is a racist!
WERE DID I EVER POST ANYTHING INDICATING THIS? PLEASE SHOW ME.

Forget the facts, forget the testimony..... every white guy is a racist. SEE MY PREVIOUS COMMENT.
HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THAT ANY WHITE PERSON AND I MEAN ANY WHITE PERSON, THAT RESPONDS TO ANY REFERENCE TO THE BLACK EXPO WITH SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF, "OH YEAH, HOW COME THEY DON'T HAVE NO WHITE EXPO?" IS RACIALLY INSENSITIVE AT BEST AND A BIGOT AT THE WORST.

AL SHARPTON, JESSIE JACKSON, MARION BERRY FOR THE MOST PART TOTALLY ANNOY ME. RAP MUSIC ANNOYS ME. OPPORTUNISTIC BLACKS WHO SHAMELESSLY PLAY THE "RACE CARD" FOR PERSONAL GAIN SICKEN ME AS WELL AS DO OTHER ISSUES.
BUT I AM EQUALLY ANNOYED BY A MINISTRY THAT, WHILE ON THE SURFACE CARRIES A POTENTIALLY POSITIVE MESSAGE OF UN-WATERED DOWN FAITH AND COMMITTMENT TO A LITERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORD OF GOD, YET IS POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY TIED TO SOME NEO-DAVID DUKE, FRED PHELPS MINDSET.

[Knight]

naima, please do not post in all caps.

Also...
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6851

[Zakath]

Originally posted by naima AL SHARPTON, JESSIE JACKSON, MARION BERRY FOR THE MOST PART TOTALLY ANNOY ME. Me too. Stupid politicians tend to annoy most intelligent people, regardless of the person's racial background.

RAP MUSIC ANNOYS ME.Ditto.

OPPORTUNISTIC BLACKS WHO SHAMELESSLY PLAY THE "RACE CARD" FOR PERSONAL GAIN SICKEN ME AS WELL...Double ditto; used to work for one. It was very unpleasant to hear her demean her employees' work when she assured us in staff meetings that the "only reason we got this work was because I'm a black woman."

[naima]

Originally posted by Knight
naima, please do not post in all caps.

Also...
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6851

I'm sorry Knight; I'm not very computer literate and when responding to a post containing multiple quotes, I'm sort of out of my league.

Friendship week = Good thing

My wife and I in our morning prayers this A.M. (4 A.M. Prayer(s)....LOL) spoke to God of a new beginning and a recommitment to Him. :up:

[Freak]

Originally posted by Knight
Uhg... :mad:

:confused:

[1Way]

Can anyone upack this quote from naima for me please? AL SHARPTON, JESSIE JACKSON, MARION BERRY FOR THE MOST PART TOTALLY ANNOY ME. RAP MUSIC ANNOYS ME. OPPORTUNISTIC BLACKS WHO SHAMELESSLY PLAY THE "RACE CARD" FOR PERSONAL GAIN SICKEN ME AS WELL AS DO OTHER ISSUES.
BUT I AM EQUALLY ANNOYED BY A MINISTRY THAT, WHILE ON THE SURFACE CARRIES A POTENTIALLY POSITIVE MESSAGE OF UN-WATERED DOWN FAITH AND COMMITTMENT TO A LITERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORD OF GOD, YET IS POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY TIED TO SOME NEO-DAVID DUKE, FRED PHELPS MINDSET. ?

[4 A.M. Prayer]

...I mentioned my disgust with many black leaders/issues because a few of the TOL'ers have accused me of labeling virtually anyone of the Enyart/Denver/South Bend/etc... group as racist. I've never said that; I have called many of you racially insensitive and will continue to do so if you continue to respond with an obvious arrogance when called out on your views.

As to unpacking the portion of the quote you underlined;

..."politically and socially tied to some neo-David Duke, Fred Phelps mindset"...

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding what I've heard.

You are against affirmative action in EVERY form; not simply restrictions/amendments on existing laws (as I am too, in some cases), but a black should get NO helping hand?; I have heard the lot of you call ANY semblance of AA as blatant racism!
Up until 40 or 50 years ago, 99% of blacks were unable to get into political arenas, movie roles, professional sports, positions in business, or even blue collar work, etc, etc... unless they were carrying a pail of water and a mop!!! Are conditions improving? Absolutely! Is there a total level playing field? You answer the question. Many of the TOL crowd remind me of the folks out there that say the Jewish tortures of the 30's and 40's were either non-existent or overrated.

Black Expo? I repeat what I said earlier that ANYONE that responds to this event with something like: "yeah, well where's the White Expo?" is racially insensitive at best and a bigot at worst. Oktoberfest celebrates German heritage; Greekfest celebrates Greek food, culture, etc... Italianfest? same thing, St. Patrick's Day, Irish heritage. I can't count the number of black folks I've seen at the above events enjoying themselves AND I've enjoyed myself at EVERY Black Expo I've attended and was ALWAYS made to feel at ease and at home by the hosts.

The United Negro College Fund? About a year ago some TOL'er here called this "racist". What? You folks are as knee jerk on this
'racist' tag as your bleeding heart opponents. For one thing, how old is the UNCF? Over a hundred years? I don't know about you, but I prefer my country to have some cultural heritage that is older than, say, Mickey Mouse! I personally know some white folks that have gotten assistance through the UNCF and count Howard Univ., among others, as their alma mater.

TOL allows (even seems to encourage) the use of "homo", "faggot" in reference to homosexuals. Fred Phelps pickets funerals, shouting insults/platitudes at the bereaved. I've asked several TOL'ers to comment on Phelps but for two years now I've gotten nothing. (please don't give me the continuing TOL mantra that to not go up to their face and call them "faggot" is to not show them your love crapola.) As part of a journalism class I took at IUPUI several years ago, I attended a Klan rally in Crawfordsville, IN. I didn't hear the "N" word, not even the anti-Jew, Mary-worshiper, dialogue (tho I've heard some of the latter here at TOL). Rather, it was a steady diet of homo lover, faggot talk that dominated most of the hour and a half that I spent listening.

Again repeating, Doug McBirney mocked in some disgusting jive parody voice last year, a black inmate spouting off (wrongly I might add and I agree with the criticism) about him not getting his judicial just due. Many who may have tuned in for the first time would have dubbed McBirney a racist on the spot!

Have I "unpacked" the quote?

I particularly enjoy Carl Smuda's posts here at TOL as I consider him a "man after God's own heart"

Christian men/writers who I personally look up to/read and admire:
George MacDonald, Andrew Murray, Sundar Singh, C.S. Lewis.

May God guide our hearts and minds and help us to make wise decisions... :)

[1Way]

4 am prayer – What? Are you naima? I’m 1Way and I don’t use multiple handles to help me avoid posts that I’d rather not be confronted with. I appreciate your response, but I depreciate that you avoided several earlier. Please respond to my 2 posts.

First post. I guess 4 am just will not consider what is really going on. ... unless you know the following two things for certain, (that’s two with a “T”)

it was an unjust lynching,

and

you know that Bob was promoting such a terrible thing,

then you (or ANYONE, even people of COLOR) have no reason to believe your false concern that it is supporting an unjust execution, which is obviously “murder”, and also smacks of some of the worlds worst sorts of racism and wickedness.


Again,

Two things, (1) you know that it was an unjust lynching AND (2) the video promoted it favorably.

We all know that these two things are not true, and so we also know your complaint is also false. Are you going to continue to run away from this issue in favor of the self inflicted pain of unnecessary grief and strife to divide the brethren?

If you aren’t being purposefully subversive, then respond to the two points that remain against your view. No one likes a whiner, especially one that willfully ignores the truth of the matter. Second post. Ok, so for these two posters who were opposing the photo,

for them it would be wrong for a white racist to treat blacks with unjust negative prejudice,

but

it’s ok for them to foster and promote an unjust negative prejudicial judgment against a white man based on nothing clearly morally wrong. Again, if the argument is all about something possibly offending someone, then you would have to throw out the bible, as it is jam packed with substantial and terribly offensive material that would make Bob’s photo look like a powder puff piece. The charge of “racial insensitivity” is against you in the form of an “unjust negative prejudicial judgment” as mentioned and demonstrated by your objecting and opposing BEL for the hanging scene in BEL’s God and the death penalty video for no good reason, unless of course you are able to reasonably demonstrate that the hanging was illegal or immoral and that BEL promoted it favorably.

continued next post.

[1Way]

Well, actually I would less likely hold racial insensitivity against you two, because of your lack of thinking through these issues, ignorance seems more likely, that is to say, I hope that is the case.

As to comparing people with people like Phelps and all that, you should be less confusing by just asking direct questions. Like is it wrong to protest and hurl insults as a Christian at a funeral for example. As to calling homo’s, homo’s, and trying to re-stigmatize the filthy behavior back into the destructive wretchedness that it is, God’s word teaches us that if they claim to be brethren, then “they” are unrighteous, sexually immoral, evil people, and are unfit for personal acceptance as dogs and swine, we shouldn’t even eat with them if they are not repentant.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner----not even to eat with such a person. ... 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

And, if they are not a believer, then their sin of homosexuality is still great wickedness.

Romans 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

So I'd rather not try to be nicer than God and love them enough to warn them of the evil destructive path they are taking and how their behavior has turned themselves into evil people deserving of contempt and reproach. A man is good or evil depending upon the condition of the treasures of his heart, saved and unsaved alike can fit into each category. Example King David was an evil person, guilty of murder and adultery, yet because he repented, he was a man after God’s heart.

Luke 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

Romans 12:9 [Let] love [be] without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

I have to wonder if you and smuda (and the like) have hypocritical love if you don’t abhor that which is evil. Don’t be nicer than God, abhor evil people and respect good people.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

"4 am prayer – What? Are you naima? I’m 1Way and I don’t use multiple handles to help me avoid posts that I’d rather not be confronted with."

Nor do I; You see I'm not much of a computer whiz (nor do I want to be) and when I initially tried to post from another location, I couldn't so I am 4AMPrayer at home and naima at work.

As to your two questions, I think I mentioned that I had not seen the video; I was only responding to the black Christian's comments. Many of the Enyart-ites seemed to immediately assure him that what he saw wasn't the case. I think he agreed with you from the start, his concern was one of an apparent "image'' of a lynching, an image that might get in the way of witness to his black friends.
Was it an unjust lynching? I don't know, I didn't see the video; I don't think our black friend believes it was either but that didn't seem to be his point.
Was it promoted favorably? See Above.

I've already point blank asked about TOL's view of Phelps in the past. Why should I ask it again when I never got a response the first time.

Other than the above, you didn't reply to any of my reasons for calling your ministry what I did; well, you did tell me why you will continue to call gays & lesbians homos and faggots.

I won't respond to this anymore; I should have let you folks fall all over each other defending the video.

"Nicer than God?" How about "Meaner than God?"
Better yet, how about the true Christian "Truth" lies somewhere in between the above and neither of us has it totally correct?

IMHO Carl Smuda seems much closer to our Lord than I am at this point in my life so don't insult him by placing him on my level. Have you even read any of his posts IWay?

I am thankful that as long as this TOL based ministry/mindset remains a 99% white, uncompromising hard, hard, right wing group, your numbers can only remain stable, at best.

I'll still keep many of you in my prayers and I hope you will do the same. :)

[1Way]

4AMPrayer – As to Nor do I; You see I'm not much of a computer whiz (nor do I want to be) and when I initially tried to post from another location, I couldn't so I am 4AMPrayer at home and naima at work. Typing in all caps, logging on with a different handle, signing or greeting your posts including both handles, , , all that is supposed to fit under the title of not being a computer whiz, and not wanting to be one? Please, give yourself a brake, you could easily learn to correct these issues, one of them at the press of a single keyboard key, the other by simply signing off your posts with both handles.

As to "Nicer than God?" How about "Meaner than God?"
Better yet, how about the true Christian "Truth" lies somewhere in between the above and neither of us has it totally correct? The two you mentioned are both meaner than God, no one can be nicer than God, they just try to be. The truth is that we should not try to be nicer than God, no one is advocating being meaner than God, so that is a mute point.

As to IMHO Carl Smuda seems much closer to our Lord than I am at this point in my life so don't insult him by placing him on my level. Have you even read any of his posts IWay? I’ve been around for some time, and yes, I think I have read some of Smuda’s posts. On the other hand, I have read perhaps hundreds of different posters, and I have read or scanned literally thousands of posts, and have posted at least several million words here at TOL since 97. I give little recognition to those who don’t demonstrate themselves as right dividers of God’s word. So far Mr. Smuda has not impressed me, and if he was one of those defending the Koran, then I am rather opposed to him.

As to I am thankful that as long as this TOL based ministry/mindset remains a 99% white, uncompromising hard, hard, right wing group, your numbers can only remain stable, at best. Your racial prejudice is not only gross, it’s also your personal problem in life, and is probably holding you back from right relations with God and your fellow man no matter what color or race they may be. As to being a right winged group, God is a right winger, He is concerned with righteousness and being on the right side of any issue. And as far as being conservative goes, God is the ultimate conservative, He only sticks to His word, and the best Christian followers humbly stick as close to His word as humanly possible. Liberals take more liberty in estimating how we should live our life of faith in God. So being a conservative right winger is a good and Godly thing, and that being popular or not makes no difference at all. Most people are not very conservative and righteousness concerned, so we narrow-minded folk are happy to remain an elite minority, while the masses herd themselves away from maturing in a close walk with God.

As to the heart of your response to me, you said. As to your two questions, I think I mentioned that I had not seen the video; I was only responding to the black Christian's comments. Many of the Enyart-ites seemed to immediately assure him that what he saw wasn't the case. I think he agreed with you from the start, his concern was one of an apparent "image'' of a lynching, an image that might get in the way of witness to his black friends.
Was it an unjust lynching? I don't know, I didn't see the video; I don't think our black friend believes it was either but that didn't seem to be his point.
Was it promoted favorably? See Above. So as to question number one, you don’t know that it was an illegal or immoral execution, which would be a murder, so the answer is “no”.

and question number two, since no one knows that it was a murder, promoting such a thing is beyond question, you can’t promote what is not there, so the answer again is “no”.

That Bob may be viewed (mistakenly or not) as promoting an illegal and terribly immoral execution is exactly the point. My point is that unless you can clearly answer yes to both questions, then there is no valid objection to the depiction. As I have said over and over again, if you are simply worried about someone taking offense because they might mistake the image/message for something else objectionable, then you would have to throw out the Bible just for starters, all graphic depictions of the holocaust, even if the entire video condemns the holocaust, same with all depictions of racist lynchings, even if the entire video harshly condemned all such terrible murders. We couldn’t hardly watch the evening news because you’d have to delete all graphics of murders and thefts and violent crimes, and all other such things, because it perchance might cause someone somewhere to be reminded of some offensive event and cause that person to become suspicious of the intent of the depiction, even if every other shred of context is diametrically opposed to immoral activity, or was simply reporting that such an event did indeed occur.

So now the question is, since the Bible would make the picture in Bob’s video look like a girl scout meeting, do you object to promoting the bible since it might perchance remind someone of some offensive thing and thereby cause them a bad vibe and raise suspicions and objections?

Do you think that different people of different races can effectively deal with matters of right and wrong fully regardless of what color or race or ethnicity they are? If so, then stop playing the race card and simply deal with the morality involved. It’s ok to reference racial issues, but not as though highlighting a person’s race wins a point somehow. Put in another way, do you think that morality is different for different races? If so then either you are not a strong Christian, or you are a racist. According to the bible I read, all humans deserve to be treated properly utterly regardless of race and skin color.

As to Other than the above, you didn't reply to any of my reasons for calling your ministry what I did; well, you did tell me why you will continue to call gays & lesbians homos and faggots. I don’t like stepping ahead of the conversation, nor going off on rabbit trails. I have VERY little free time, so I am selective as to what I will spend my time on.

[4 A.M. Prayer]

Originally posted by 1Way
4AMPrayer – As to Typing in all caps, logging on with a different handle, signing or greeting your posts including both handles, , , all that is supposed to fit under the title of not being a computer whiz, and not wanting to be one? Please, give yourself a brake, you could easily learn to correct these issues, one of them at the press of a single keyboard key, the other by simply signing off your posts with both handles.

Thank you 1Way, despite what I continue to post, I appreciate your help but my wife and myself's computer time is sporatic and we would rather one on one with folks and not get caught up in what seems to have both, Christians and non-Christians, by the throat, computer time!

As to The two you mentioned are both meaner than God, no one can be nicer than God, they just try to be. The truth is that we should not try to be nicer than God, no one is advocating being meaner than God, so that is a mute point.

But you and so many in the Enyart ministry are trying to be just that my friend, that is my point and the point of so many others.

As to I’ve been around for some time, and yes, I think I have read some of Smuda’s posts. On the other hand, I have read perhaps hundreds of different posters, and I have read or scanned literally thousands of posts, and have posted at least several million words here at TOL since 97. I give little recognition to those who don’t demonstrate themselves as right dividers of God’s word. So far Mr. Smuda has not impressed me, and if he was one of those defending the Koran, then I am rather opposed to him.

Thanks for the history lesson Enyart-disciple.

"...if he was one of those defending the Koran, then I am rather opposed to him..."

1Way, we can never know the truth of folks over this silly medium of a computer, but Carl seems totally wedded to our Lord and Savior and would never "defend" the Koran. He would, IMO, lay out an olive branch to enable us ALL to find Christ in our lives.

Didn't you say you have been posting here since "97"?


As to Your racial prejudice is not only gross, it’s also your personal problem in life

Do we know each other 1Way? I stand by the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Enyart ministry is racially insensitive
and that is MY problem?, MY prejudice? Your whole ministry reeks of alcoholics in denial, (why am I posting here??)


God is a right winger

How hard can we laugh here my, I'm thinking, sincere friend.
Suggestion: read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity"

And as far as being conservative goes, God is the ultimate conservative

(see above)

So being a conservative right winger is a good and Godly thing

(see above again, my goodness, can you not separate our Christian walk with our Lord and Savior with this social and political "brain rot" that your impressionistic" mind and Enyart ministry has paid dues on lock stock and barrel!!!!!!)

As to the heart of your response to me, you said. So as to question number one, you don’t know that it was an illegal or immoral execution, which would be a murder, so the answer is “no”.
and question number two, since no one knows that it was a murder, promoting such a thing is beyond question, you can’t promote what is not there, so the answer again is “no”.

OK, yeah, I guess; this is obviously some attempt to continue to "expose" the black poster as a fraud or some "ignorant" that just doesn't see the "truth"...OK, game over, "good guys" win, we should have understood your point all along.

That Bob may be viewed (mistakenly or not) as promoting an illegal and terribly immoral execution is exactly the point. My point is that unless you can clearly answer yes to both questions, then there is no valid objection to the depiction. As I have said over and over again, if you are simply worried about someone taking offense because they might mistake the image/message for something else objectionable, then you would have to throw out the Bible just for starters, all graphic depictions of the holocaust, even if the entire video condemns the holocaust, same with all depictions of racist lynchings, even if the entire video harshly condemned all such terrible murders. We couldn’t hardly watch the evening news because you’d have to delete all graphics of murders and thefts and violent crimes, and all other such things, because it perchance might cause someone somewhere to be reminded of some offensive event and cause that person to become suspicious of the intent of the depiction, even if every other shred of context is diametrically opposed to immoral activity, or was simply reporting that such an event did indeed occur.

The whole TOL website would appear to be racially insensitive to many readers, Christians, non-Christians; my own 75 year old mother who is so thirsting after our Lord's gift of Salvation that she can't leave it out of ANY conversation; she has read the Enyart-mantra and finds, not the Christian search but the TOL mindset apart from the truth (not Christian seekers, but the right wing horse poo)
WHY ARE YOU GUYS IN SUCH DENIAL?

So now the question is, since the Bible would make the picture in Bob’s video look like a girl scout meeting, do you object to promoting the bible since it might perchance remind someone of some offensive thing and thereby cause them a bad vibe and raise suspicions and objections?

Do you think that different people of different races can effectively deal with matters of right and wrong fully regardless of what color or race or ethnicity they are? If so, then stop playing the race card and simply deal with the morality involved. It’s ok to reference racial issues, but not as though highlighting a person’s race wins a point somehow. Put in another way, do you think that morality is different for different races? If so then either you are not a strong Christian, or you are a racist. According to the bible I read, all humans deserve to be treated properly utterly regardless of race and skin color.

Since you just suggested that I am a racist then (after two glasses of wine after dinner, my apologies) the whole Enyart ministry is "semi-racist" (should I pat myself on the back, I called your ministry "semi-racist"). Read my earlier posts, the TOL'ers are good at spinning the issue. You've never responded. There is no reason for us to continue; I've been wasting quality time with my divorced brother who needs my help. I hate left wing morons, but I equally hate the TOL Enyart-brainwashed morons that equate our eternity and salvation with some right wing 'white is right' mindset.











As to I don’t like stepping ahead of the conversation, nor going off on rabbit trails. I have VERY little free time, so I am selective as to what I will spend my time on.

[Palto]

This has been an interesting dialog. The point was brought up that a photograph depicting a man being hung could be misinterpreted in a negative fashion. This concern appears to be overwhelmingly denounced as wrong. Wouldn't this equate to not causing another to stumble? I may be mistaken, but is the photograph crucial to the message in the tape? If not, perhaps as was mentioned, a simple caption clarification would suffice. As is, concern has been raised that using the tape to witness to others may be hampered just because of an unnecessary visual. In his particular case, the situation could be remedied if he knew the specifics of the photograph so that he could share its origin with those he shares the tape, but obviously this will not be an isolated incident. The fact that alteration of the photograph would not change or even water down the message on the tape makes the observation of concern legitimate. If nothing is done it may be an opportunity lost in witnessing. I don't believe that we should do things just because we can do them even though it does not glorify GOD.

Palto

[4 A.M. Prayer]

The Enyart ministry is racially insenstive. period.
You continue to dodge questions, period.

Your ministry has, at least, some semblance of legitimacy,
The: "watered down Christian message is a JOKE!"

I couldn't agree more.

I truely want to give your campfire some credit, but, as I have said a hundred times, you guys and gals sound like some neo-Klan horse poo on EVERY issue you comment on.

Take your right wing moronic CRAP, bury it, and lets forge a new millinieium Christian message. Is that too much to ask?

[Goose]

4am,

You're one of the biggest spouters of disinformation and hypocrisy on this forum. You need to look in the mirror and check yourself.

[1Way]

4 A.M. Prayer –



[list=1] As to myself repeatedly raising the same issue and question without a response, here was your last supposed effort . . .

(1Way)
So now the question is, since the Bible would make the picture in Bob’s video look like a girl scout meeting, do you object to promoting the bible since it might perchance remind someone of some offensive thing and thereby cause them a bad vibe and raise suspicions and objections?

...

(4 A.M. Prayer)
Since you just suggested that I am a racist then (after two glasses of wine after dinner, my apologies) the whole Enyart ministry is "semi-racist" (should I pat myself on the back, I called your ministry "semi-racist"). Read my earlier posts, the TOL'ers are good at spinning the issue. You've never responded. There is no reason for us to continue; I've been wasting quality time with my divorced brother who needs my help. I hate left wing morons, but I equally hate the TOL Enyart-brainwashed morons that equate our eternity and salvation with some right wing 'white is right' mindset. All that in order to NOT respond to the question ! ? !


Here it is again with larger text for hopes of a thoughtful answer to the question. So now the question is, since the Bible would make the picture in Bob’s video look like a girl scout meeting, do you object to promoting the bible since it might perchance remind someone of some offensive thing and thereby cause them a bad vibe and raise suspicions and objections? The portion of text that needs a response has been reformatted. However, due to so much demonstrated SPA (= Selective and Prejudiced Attention), here it is again with even stronger formatting. So now the question is, since the Bible would make the picture in Bob’s video look like a girl scout meeting, do you object to promoting the bible since it might perchance remind someone of some offensive thing and thereby cause them a bad vibe and raise suspicions and objections?


As to so much of your perverted judgments, such as the following . . . I hate left wing morons, but I equally hate the TOL Enyart-brainwashed morons that equate our eternity and salvation with some right wing 'white is right' mindset. You constantly make such prejudiced racist false accusations against us, and then you seem to argue just as constantly that you should not be racially prejudiced. I hope you realize that hypocrisy is a sin.[/list=1]

[4 A.M. Prayer]

Originally posted by Goose
4am,

You're one of the biggest spouters of disinformation and hypocrisy on this forum. You need to look in the mirror and check yourself.

If that were the case Goose, you wouldn't even bother responding to my posts and would let me fade into oblivion. (no one seems to respond to me save yourself and I Way)

I look in the mirror and see someone that needs a complete ''spirtual face lift"; tho my Christian friends tell me I'm too hard on myself (no I'm not!)

You never responded to my UNCF comments, or my ethnic fests, or Phelps (can't we all drop kick this moron into a bucket?) or McBirney's jive-bigotry, etc..

I won't respond again; if everyone here at TOL wants to spread the Christian message of good news and Salvation thru our Lord and Savior, then do it without your lily white "fag hating'' distorted Enyart "gospel".

If we do our Lord's will, we will see each other some day.
I'm constantly worried whether I am doing the right thing in my witness.
Is everyone else?

I recommend closing the thread; I'm not visiting this site again and if Goose or Knight or IWay has a thought, it will be nothing more than preaching to the choir..............

[Freak]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
I won't respond again; if everyone here at TOL wants to spread the Christian message of good news and Salvation thru our Lord and Savior, then do it without your lily white "fag hating'' distorted Enyart "gospel".



Enyart Gospel? What you are talking about? There is one Gospel that Bob preaches and one Gospel I preach---Jesus, His life, death, burial, and bodily resurrection.

[Knight]

Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
The Enyart ministry is racially insenstive. period.
You continue to dodge questions, period.

Your ministry has, at least, some semblance of legitimacy,
The: "watered down Christian message is a JOKE!"

I couldn't agree more.

I truely want to give your campfire some credit, but, as I have said a hundred times, you guys and gals sound like some neo-Klan horse poo on EVERY issue you comment on.

Take your right wing moronic CRAP, bury it, and lets forge a new millinieium Christian message. Is that too much to ask? Well there ya have it folks... your typical nicer than God Christian shows his true colors.

What a loon!! :freak:

[1Way]

The front graphic on the video's cover shows an electric chair and a backdrop of flames of fire :devil: ! Does that mean that Bob supports or prefers execution by electrocution? Or does that mean Bob supports death by burning? But it shows them both together, so does that mean he supports death by burning in the electric chair? :joker: :kookoo:

And what about all those loved ones who tragically died untimely and horrendous deaths (including people of all colors and races and nationalities) such as being trapped in a fire, or accidentally electrocuted? Isn’t Bob being very uncaring and insensitive to all those people for placing such a terrible reminder at the most prominent aspect of his video?

I’m sure Bob would skirt the issue by saying something like that the entire video is about God’s word on the death penalty, should Christians today support the death penalty, not about other or tangent issues. But doesn’t Bob even consider all the burn victims that might be enraged by the resemblance of such horrible memories? Bob is graphically insensitive and his teachings should be avoided because of it.

Ok, ok, I’m done pretending to be willfully ignorant. :zakath:

I’m glad were done with the racist false accusers, and the symbolism over substance, and the aversion of the offensiveness of the Bible and the utter lack of wrongdoing in the depiction in question :chicken: , and the circular nonsense.

PS – I like these new Icons. :ahso:

[Poly]

Originally posted by 1Way
PS – I like these new Icons. :ahso:
We noticed.:chuckle: