Revelation On The Old Testament

[Squeaky]

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Cor 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
John 3:35-36
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3-8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Gal 2:19-21
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 4:21
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Rom 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Pet 2:19-21
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)
xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.

[Squeaky]

If you believe the old testament you should read what Jesus says about it in the new testament.

[Aimiel]

If you're really mixed up, it is probably because you've read too much New Testament, and have foolishly thrown away the Old.

[Aimiel]

bump :jump:

[Squeaky]

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

[geralduk]

There is MORE to the OLD testament than JUST the LAW and the covenant.

Jesus taught about MARRIAGE from it.
are we then to dismiss that also?

He taught about the TRUE apsect of the law.
How
By preaching from it!
(the animalthat falls into the ditch)

He "UPHELD the LAW"

sEE THE WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY.

For they seekign to JUSTYFY THEMSELVES by the LAW.
The Lord upholding the LAW.
wHICH SAID "the accusers must cast the first stones"
They being CONVICTED by the LAW left and by the use of the LAW the woman was SAVED from THIER wrath.
and by HIS GRACE and mercy.

[Squeaky]

The old testament consists of the law and the prophets. Everything up until John the Baptist is the old covenant.

Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)

Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)

[Squeaky]

And anyone who tries to be justified by the old testament has fallen from grace.

[Squeaky]

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Cor 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
John 3:35-36
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3-8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Gal 2:19-21
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 4:21
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Rom 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Pet 2:19-21
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)
xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.
If Jesus were in the old testament this verse could only be meant for God and the angels.
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

[truebeliever7]

some arent going to like it, but I do its right on! :wave2: :bannana: :BRAVO: :thumb:

[Squeaky]

Thats what gets me. The new testament says
2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

No matter how many times I says "there is a veil over the old testament that remains to this day" you still have those who believe they can understand the old testament. Satan is having a fun time with them telling them they can understand the old testament.

[Lovejoy]

For goodness sake, he was talking about the Jews! Not once does he say "you" (referring to the Corinthians), he only says "they" (referring to believers in the old covenant). One verse later he says the veil is lifted in Jesus! Christians can understand it. This is way you cannot use scripture piecemeal.

[Squeaky]

lovejoy you said
(referring to believers in the old covenant

I said
The veil is over the old testament to this DAY. For anyone who believes in the old testament. And in Christ means the new testament. Do you know what the word "All" means in this verse?

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

[Lovejoy]

I can tell that it is all a figure of speech (as the text tells us), and indicates that no one else has ever had the power to save. Christ is the only one that can take people through the gate. Do you really think He is saying that Moses was a thief or robber, or was trying to mislead anyone? Christ makes frequent referrence to the old testament leaders and prophets, and always with respect. He even meets with Moses! He is just saying that He is the true good shepherd (as per Jeremiah 23) and no one before Him could claim to be able to save anyone.

[Squeaky]

Well I guess you just keep believing what you want to. But if we are going to be judged with the same judgment that we use now. And if you can change All to something else. I guess you won't be suprized if God on judgment day changes saved to condemned.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

[truebeliever7]

That is where people get into trouble I gaurentee you on judgment day Jesus isnt going to say that was just a figure of speech, I really didnt mean it that way. How we get in trouble by believing it as it is said? If we are going to be judged by the word then I believe we need to believe the word. it hasnt caused me any trouble believing what it says.

John 12:47-50
47 "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

[Lovejoy]

That is where people get into trouble I gaurentee you on judgment day Jesus isnt going to say that was just a figure of speech, I really didnt mean it that way. How we get in trouble by believing it as it is said? If we are going to be judged by the word then I believe we need to believe the word. it hasnt caused me any trouble believing what it says.

John 12:47-50
47 "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
Did you even read the text? It says that "Jesus is using a figure of speech." It says it in the text! Please, please actually read the scripture, all of it, before sticking your foot in your mouth.

[Lovejoy]

Well I guess you just keep believing what you want to. But if we are going to be judged with the same judgment that we use now. And if you can change All to something else. I guess you won't be suprized if God on judgment day changes saved to condemned.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)
The text says that "thieves and robbers" is a figure of speech, it says it right in the text. I was not disputing the ALL, just what He was saying about them.

[Lovejoy]

And just in case you two missed it in my previous two posts, here is the verse that you keep skipping:

John 10:6 This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.

You as well refuse to understand that Jesus was using a figure of speech. In fact, you seem to be in complete denial of the possibility. Yet it was there in the text, plain as day. So whose understanding is questionable here?

[Squeaky]

lovejoy
If you keep making up things as you go, you might find out your salvation is only a figure of speech.

John 10:6
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
(KJV)

3942 paroimia (par-oy-mee'-ah);

from a compound of 3844 and perhaps a derivative of 3633; apparently a state alongside of supposition, i.e. (concretely) an adage; specifically, an enigmatical or fictitious illustration:

KJV-- parable, proverb.

[Lovejoy]

QUOTE: specifically, an enigmatical or fictitious illustration:

That is a figure of speech. That is what figure of speech means. How can you right down exactly what I said, and then act as if you are disagreeing with me?

Paroimia: any dark saying which shadows forth some didactic truth
esp. a symbolic or figurative saying
speech or discourse in which a thing is illustrated by the use of similes and comparisons
an allegory
extended and elaborate metaphor

It is used four times in Scripture, and differs from the normal word used for parable. How are we even discussing this?

[Bright Raven]

QUOTE: specifically, an enigmatical or fictitious illustration:

That is a figure of speech. That is what figure of speech means. How can you right down exactly what I said, and then act as if you are disagreeing with me?

Paroimia: any dark saying which shadows forth some didactic truth
esp. a symbolic or figurative saying
speech or discourse in which a thing is illustrated by the use of similes and comparisons
an allegory
extended and elaborate metaphor

It is used four times in Scripture, and differs from the normal word used for parable. How are we even discussing this?

Your are absolutely right Lovejoy. Squeaky and True believer7 have a preconceived agenda. They are not willing to learn or grow. This has been shown time and again when they refuse to take correction to false thing they post. They have the notion that everythng they post is from the Holy Spirit because the spirit for them speaks only in verses of scripture. However there are spirits other than the Holy Spirit that know the scriptures very well. Squeaky and True believer7 must come to the understanding that some of what they post is incorrect. Trying to prove truth false is fruitless. They just do not realize that at this point in time. Peace be with you, Bert

[Squeaky]

Bert you said
They have the notion that everythng they post is from the Holy Spirit because the spirit for them speaks only in verses of scripture. However there are spirits other than the Holy Spirit that know the scriptures very well. Squeaky and True believer7 must come to the understanding that some of what they post is incorrect.

I said
I'm sorry Bert but what we say is not a notion it is fact. We can prove it with the Word. What you are saying cant be proved with the Word of God.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

[Bright Raven]

You only prove to yourself the things that you believe. You have proved nothing! You quote wonderful verses. It is a shame you do not understand what they mean. Peace be with you , Bert

[Lovejoy]

I am not sure what to say at this point, Squeaky. You don’t seem willing to deal with your error on John 10:6, and that is just small matter! If you are that obstinate, this seems fruitless. As it is, I don’t think it is possible to prove that spirits can or will use Scripture against us. They will do what they are allowed to do, for sure. We know (everyone but you) they will because Satan used the OT against Christ. But you seem to think that the NT is guarded specially. That seems ridiculous to me, because in 2Peter, chapter 3, we are warned that Paul’s letters will be distorted by the untaught and the unstable, as is all Scripture. Peter does not differentiate between the two (OT and NT). He says they both get got by the baddies. 1Timothy talks about people being lead down the garden path the doctrine of demons and spirits, in the later days. Revelation tells us about three frog like demon spirits that will mislead through miraculous signs. I don’t know what to tell you, as you refuse to study the bible, as you seem to think that is some sort of sin. In Acts 18:24, we find that Apollos was a man educated in Scripture, and only had the Baptism of John to help him. Yet he was still effective. So to were those in Thessalonica, studying Scripture to find the truth of Christ. Is there no value in actually reading the stuff to the point of not making bonehead blunders? Don’t be the guy from 2Peter 3:16-17!

[Squeaky]

lovejoy what error its a parable or illustration not a figure of speech.

John 10:6-8
6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)

[Lovejoy]

The NASB and NIV translate it as "figure of speech." They do that because it is a different word that which is used for parable elsewhere. Your own translation calls it "figurative language." Whichever, it is still a metaphor.

[Squeaky]

I hope you dont study the NIV. It really has perverted many verses.

[Lovejoy]

I hope you dont study the NIV. It really has perverted many verses.
No, I keep it around in case someone else uses it, and I need it to debate them. It is unreliable in to many areas. The NASB is above reproach, though.

[truebeliever7]

Did you even read the text? It says that "Jesus is using a figure of speech." It says it in the text! Please, please actually read the scripture, all of it, before sticking your foot in your mouth.


the Holy Spirit explains it with the verses..
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)


I Jn 2:27
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
(NKJ)

[Bright Raven]

TB7 The verses you are using have nothing to do with the text being discussed. Peace, Bert

[Squeaky]

Bert you said
TB7 The verses you are using have nothing to do with the text being discussed. Peace, Bert

I said
I will have to disagree with you here. Everything Jesus spoke He spoke in parables.

Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(NKJ)

And everything the apostles taught they only gave the milk understanding.

1 Cor 3:2-3
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
(NKJ)

It isnt until they start walking after the Holy Spirit that He opens a whole new world of understanding in the meat.

Heb 5:12-6:3
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

CHAPTER 6

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do if God permits.
(NKJ)

[Bright Raven]

Squeaky, Why would you want to agree with the truth. It's against your nature. Peace, Bert

[Squeaky]

Bert there is a big difference from walking after the Spirit of truth and taking the truth that He said and perverting it. I have always walked after the Spirit of truth.

John 16:13-15
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

John 15:26
26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

As long as you keep the Word in the same context that it is written in you will always abide in the milk understanding. And you will never be able to grow with the Spirit into the meat understanding.

[truebeliever7]

squesky,

I dont even pay much attention to bert any more since the Holy Spirit told me not to cast my pearls before swine.
bert is just like the dog I have in my back yard when he takes off barking at the wind I just tell him to be quiet. with bert though I dont even waset my t\me telling him he is just barking at the wind.
Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
(NKJ)

[Squeaky]

I know it, but the Lord says we have to love him.

[truebeliever7]

lovejoy;

quit trying to figure out the word. that is the Holy Spirits job. we do not have the ability to figure out the word of God/ how can we be so arrogant to think our piddly knowledge of man could possible comprehend the things of God. it is called humility.
1 Cor 2:11
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
(NKJ)


1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(NKJ)

its not a bad thing to rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding, instead of some bob gabreils book on "how to interpert the word of God" :think: :think: :think: :think:

[Aimiel]

It is a bad thing to rely upon a demon, even though it calls itself, "the holy spirit," and proceeds to keep you mis-informed and too proud to accept that what you believe about The Word of God just might not be true, but that keeps you believeing the lie.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
It is a bad thing to rely upon a demon, even though it calls itself, "the holy spirit," and proceeds to keep you mis-informed and too proud to accept that what you believe about The Word of God just might not be true, but that keeps you believeing the lie.


I said
Do you know what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means?

John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Yes, I know what blasphemy of The Holy Spirit is, but I'm afraid that you don't. You apparently have never listened to Him, and as you have hardened your heart toward Him, you left Him behind, as you walk on your merry way, walking around this earth without God's Presence in your life.

[Squeaky]

You said
Yes, I know what blasphemy of The Holy Spirit is, but I'm afraid that you don't. You apparently have never listened to Him,

I said
Well then tell me what you think it is.

[Aimiel]

Squeaky,

I've already been down your little bunny-trails, and they all lead to the same demon, pretending to be The Holy Ghost.

[Bright Raven]

Squeaky, We have been down this garden path too, haven't we? Why would you, someone who does not know the Spirit, singular, of the living God question someone who knows the Holy Spirit about blasphemy of the Spirit. You teetering on the edge by rejecting Jesus. That demon has you messed up.

[Aimiel]

Be sure your sin will find you out.

[Squeaky]

Bert I have asked you many times about the Holy Spirit and you have never once given me an answer. How do you know the Holy Spirit and how does He teach you?

[Aimiel]

Can I take this one? I know The Spirit of The Lord because He testifies together with my spirit that The Word of God is true. What He says always lines up with Scripture, though not always with orthodox 'interpretation' of Scripture. He has shown me many things and told me many things which don't have anything to do with The Words printed in my Bible. Often He'll tell me how to avoid automobile accidents while driving my car. I couldn't tell you how many times He's saved my life in this way. On today's roads you'd have to be crazy to try to drive safely out there on the highway without The Holy Spirit guiding and directing you. Quite often He'll give me a prophecy or a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge about someone and enable me to deliver that word to them, and quite often He is able to change that person's life because of their reception of His Words through me. It is very rare (from my experience) that He will have me quote any scripture to anyone while operating under His Anointing. I know (most times) when He wants me to speak to someone, because I'll look at someone and The Holy Ghost will give me information (supernaturally, don't ask me how He does it, I don't know) about the person's life situation. I don't have to think about it, I just know that they've gone through this and been over that rough road and had this and that happen to them, and certain ones have died recently, and then, before you know it, I'm asking them if I can deliver a Word of Prophecy that I believe The Holy Ghost wants me to speak out on their behalf, they agree, and I speak, sometimes for 30 seconds and sometimes for 45 minutes, and then He lets me know I'm done, and, most times, I can't even remember what I've said; but also, most times, I've learned something new about The Lord Jesus or about The Father that I didn't know before, and always remember to make notes of that and study to find out more on the subject. He's so good to His Children. He loves every single one and wants to speak to them, personally, and tell them what to expect tomorrow or the next day or within the next few years, and get them ready for His Blessings, or just to encourage them to look for His Blessings, rather than to curse their own life and wonder why bad things happen to them.

Does that answer your questions?

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
The Words printed in my Bible. Often He'll tell me how to avoid automobile accidents while driving my car. I couldn't tell you how many times He's saved my life in this way. On today's roads you'd have to be crazy to try to drive safely out there on the highway without The Holy Spirit guiding and directing you. Quite often He'll give me a prophecy or a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge about someone and enable me to deliver that word to them, and quite often He is able to change that person's life because of their reception of His Words through me

I said
Do you want to know what the Holy Spirit has to say about your evidence?

Matt 12:39
39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
(NKJ)

II Th 2:9-13
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

I said
Do you want to know what the Holy Spirit has to say about your evidence?Be careful, calling what The Holy Spirit does 'lying wonders' is tantamount to blasphemy. No, I don't want to know what your demon, which calls itself, "holy spirit," has to say about The Holy Ghost. That spirit of antichrist has been at work on this earth since before the fall; he's still a miserable failure, as are you, if you continue to follow him to your doom.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
No, I don't want to know what your demon, which calls itself, "holy spirit," has to say about The Holy Ghost

I said
Then how about this, that I show you exactly how the Holy Ghost will speak to you. So that you can discern the difference between the real Holy Ghost and what you think is the Holy Ghost.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Squeaky,

Please tell me, has The Holy Ghost ever shown you 'things to come,' in other words, has He ever shown you future events before they take place? He can, you know; and He won't use Scriptures to do so. He will, most often, speak to you with a vision or a dream. Not that I'm asking you to 'seek' after a sign, Heaven forbid; just wondering if The Lord has ever seen fit to do such a thing in your life?

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
Please tell me, has The Holy Ghost ever shown you 'things to come,' in other words, has He ever shown you future events before they take place? He can, you know; and He won't use Scriptures to do so. He will, most often, speak to you with a vision or a dream. Not that I'm asking you to 'seek' after a sign, Heaven forbid; just wondering if The Lord has ever seen fit to do such a thing in your life?


I said
I went through all that in the milk.

[Aimiel]

Yes, but what if there is going to be a great earthquake in your neighborhood tomorrow. How do you think that He would notify you of that? Is there a verse that He could give you? When Jesus said that He would show us things to come, He meant that He would be able to prepare us for what is going to happen in our lives, as He wills; not as Squeaky 'thinks'.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel that is what we have been trying to show you. Again with the imagination. What if? Almost? maybe? The foundation of your belief system is imagination.

2 Cor 10:5
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

I asked Him what would He tell me, and this is what He said.

Matt 16:25
25 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
(NKJ)

Mark 8:35
35 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
(NKJ)

Luke 9:24
24 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
(NKJ)

Luke 17:33
33 "Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

So you speak to a search engine, and call it The Holy Ghost?

[Squeaky]

Only if the search engine is the Holy Spirit.

[Aimiel]

I'd be willing to bet it's Bible Gateway.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel if you only knew the Holy Spirit?
I had one person do this one time to check me. I answer these questions all at once when I come in. What you do is take all the times off these replies of mine. See how long it took for me to come up with the verses. Now see how fast you can go to Gateway and look them up. And that isnt even figureing in the idea that where did I get the idea to look them certain verses up.
Try it. You will be suprized. Even when I give you the verse, you cant look them up as fast as I posted them.

[Aimiel]

OK, so what do you think that proves? Nothing. You're just being silly.

[Squeaky]

Thats what he said after he tried it.

[Aimiel]

So now you have two people telling you that you're silly. Maybe we're beginning to see a pattern?

[allsmiles]

Aimiel, I think you need to free your mind.

I'm rooting for you.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
So now you have two people telling you that you're silly. Maybe we're beginning to see a pattern?


I said
yes that the majarity is always wrong.

Luke 13:24
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
(NKJ)

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(NKJ)

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

No Squeaky, the majority of people would tell you, "Whatever you believe, that's fine." It takes people who care about you to take the time to reach you with correction, without making you feel like you're less than them. It takes concern on their part and cooperation (an attitude of teachableness) on yours. If you were able to hear and receive correction easier, this might not take so long. As it is, you seem closed to me not because what you have is correct but because its defended too well. What are you afraid of, that God's Word will be corrupted if you stop to reconsider It? Men have been attacking It since before Moses wrote the first word on parchment. Every Word of It is still intact, and will be forever. I'm only trying to get you to allow illumination on the dark recesses of your mistaken impressions of It.

[truebeliever7]

The text says that "thieves and robbers" is a figure of speech, it says it right in the text. I was not disputing the ALL, just what He was saying about them.


man has always had the ability to decieve and lie Jesus broke that chain, so all who eve came before Him were robbers and theives.
Matt 24:5
5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
(NKJ)


Matt 24:11
11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
(NKJ)


Matt 24:24-25
24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 "See, I have told you beforehand.
(NKJ)


Rom 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
(NKJ)

[Lovejoy]

man has always had the ability to decieve and lie Jesus broke that chain, so all who eve came before Him were robbers and theives.
Matt 24:5
5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
(NKJ)


Matt 24:11
11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
(NKJ)


Matt 24:24-25
24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 "See, I have told you beforehand.
(NKJ)


Rom 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
(NKJ)
You got your tenses mixed up. We were talking about what Jesus said about those that came before His incarnation, and those verses refer to people after His ministry.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
No Squeaky, the majority of people would tell you, "Whatever you believe, that's fine." It takes people who care about you to take the time to reach you with correction

I said
I think you should find out why you "care". That could be your delusion.

1 Pet 5:6-8
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
(NKJ)

Matt 22:16
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

I think you should find out why you "care". That could be your delusion.

1 Pet 5:6-8
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
(NKJ)

Matt 22:16
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
(NKJ)The wording in Matthew 22:16 isn't meant to show us that we should not have affections for anyone, or else why would Jesus have wept over Lazarus' death? It meant to show us that we shouldn't respect someone as more important than another, for example the way most people are polite to someone dressed in nice clothes, and rude to those who are homeless or who smell bad. Regarding someone's 'person' is taking their 'office' or position into consideration regarding the amount of acceptance offered to them. God is no respecter of persons, since all men are equal in His Eyes. He loves all of us with the same love. His Salvation is offered to all, regardless of their positon, status or wealth. If He wanted us to not care about one another, then why would He demonstrate so much love for us that He laid down His Life that we might not have to partake of death? Why would He also tell us to love one another as He loved us? Again, your understanding isn't in line with The Word of God, it is simply a misunderstanding of what you've read, and misconstued, mostly due to your inability to grasp themes and concepts that God clearly demonstrates time and again in The Word.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel Jesus wasnt wepping over Lazarus. He actually said He was glad He wasnt there. Jesus always wept over there unbelief.

John 11:14-15
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.
15 "And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him."
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

OK, He wept over the lack of faith found in those He cared about. Was He showing emotions? Do you think that showed He had a devil? You have expressed in the past that you thought of emotions as being from demons. Have you learned that was error, yet? Do you realize the difference between someone not 'caring' what others think of them and having 'care' for those that they love? Jesus made Himself of no reputation. That means He didn't walk in Jewery along with the other 'religious' Jews, or even associate with them, as a peer group. He began to teach them, even when He was a youth, but didn't walk in 'religious' ways. His 'reputation' was tainted because He associated with known sinners. Kind of like the way many people I associate with think lowly of me because of my inclination to attend churches in poor areas, and minister to homeless people and drunks and drug addicts on the street, as well as gangsters. I don't do that because I don't care for them; I do so because I think nothing of my 'reputation' among 'religious' people.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
? Do you think that showed He had a devil?

I said
No that showed He had affections.

[Aimiel]

You presume that affections aren't emotions? You can't have affection for someone without owning emotions. You need to buy a dictionary.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
You presume that affections aren't emotions?

I said
That is the problem, you dont know the difference. They are different.

[Squeaky]

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Gal 2:21
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Cor 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Rom 13:8
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:33
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
John 3:35-36
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3-8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Gal 2:19-21
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 5:1-5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 4:21
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
Rom 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 Pet 2:19-21
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)
xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.
If Jesus were in the old testament this verse could only be meant for God and the angels.
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

[noneoftheabove]

what?

[Lucky]

Squeaky, enough with the Revelation Reruns. Just bump your old threads if you must.

As far as the 3 threads, I just merged them.

[Squeaky]

Try reading it. It is the Word of God.

[Aimiel]

11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. Did you mean 2 John, Chapter 1, Verse 9?

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The doctrine of Christ isn't The New Testament, it is the doctrine of Christ, which means Christian doctrine: salvation by grace, through faith, etc., and not as you have mis-interpreted, above. You transgress The Word of God, and don't abide in grace. You don't have The Father and The Son, you have a counterfeit, a demon.There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.Squeaky, the word, "their," in verse 14 and 15 means, "the children of Israel," not everyone. Hello!!!

2 Corinthians 3:13--15

13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

[Aimiel]

Try reading it. It is the Word of God.The Word of God doesn't need your foolish 'revelations' which are nothing more than darkness, to spread The Truth. You spread lies, posing as The Word of God.

[noneoftheabove]

The Word of God doesn't need your foolish 'revelations' which are nothing more than darkness, to spread The Truth. You spread lies, posing as The Word of God.

This reminds me of that part in The Elf , with Will Ferrel, where the Elf says to the Mall Santa at the fake North Pole "You sit on throne of lies."

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
The doctrine of Christ isn't The New Testament, it is the doctrine of Christ, which means Christian doctrine:

I said
Where do you come up with this stuff. Just make it up as you go. Let me show you how rediculous that is.
If and that is a big IF. If it was talking about the christian doctrine it would have said christian doctrine, but it didnt it said doctrine of Christ(not christian) which is the new testament.

[Aimiel]

Aimiel you said
The doctrine of Christ isn't The New Testament, it is the doctrine of Christ, which means Christian doctrine:

I said
Where do you come up with this stuff. Just make it up as you go. Let me show you how rediculous that is.
If and that is a big IF. If it was talking about the christian doctrine it would have said christian doctrine, but it didnt it said doctrine of Christ(not christian) which is the new testament.Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you just make it up as you go along? It is far more ridiculous to interject that the 'doctrine of Christ' is the entire New Testament than to understand that the 'doctrine of Christ' means Christ's Doctrine, which He taught to us, meaning that one must be saved through faith in Christ. Christian Doctrine is believing upon Jesus as Christ (the doctrine of Christ). He is The Chief Cornerstone of our faith. There is no other name under Heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. He is The One and Only Savior. God said that He is The Only Savior we need, and that there is no other. That is the Doctrine of Christ, that He is Salvation.

[Squeaky]

Now that is camoflouge and double talk. The doctrine of Christ is the doctrine teaching us about Christ. You cant find the word Christ in the old testament. The word Christ is only found in the doctrine of Christ which is the new testament. The doctrine of Christ or Christ's doctrine is still the new testament. What your implying is the carnal understanding being used as the doctrine of Christ, and that is a perversion of the doctrine.

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

[Mr. 5020]

Question for Squeaky:

When Paul wrote...
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
...was he talking about the Old and New Testament, or just the New Testament?



Note: The New Testament did not canonically exist yet.

[Aimiel]

The doctrine of Christ is the doctrine teaching us about Christ. Teaching others about Christ is one of the church's doctrines, but, since salvation is the most important message there has ever been, and many are dying without receiving Jesus, we must agree that the doctrine of Christ is the message of salvation, that there is salvation in no other name except Jesus' Name. Faith in Christ is the only salvation there is.The word Christ is only found in the doctrine of Christ which is the new testament. Again, when The Word of God says 'doctrine of Christ' It isn't saying, 'The New Testament,' It is speaking of the doctrine of Christ, which is salvation from sin, by grace, through faith in Christ.What your implying is the carnal understanding being used as the doctrine of Christ, and that is a perversion of the doctrine.No, what I've assumed is what God has made obvious by His Word. You imply that you have 'special' knowledge that others don't, without having any understanding of the basics, which is ridiculous and very foolish.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
Teaching others about Christ is one of the church's doctrines

I said
That is new testament doctrine.Read your bible.

Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
(NKJ)

you said
Again, when The Word of God says 'doctrine of Christ' It isn't saying, 'The New Testament,'

I said
Yes it is.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

[Mr. 5020]

Question for Squeaky:

When Paul wrote...2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
...was he talking about the Old and New Testament, or just the New Testament?



Note: The New Testament did not canonically exist yet.

[Squeaky]

Timothy was talking about the new testament. Even Timothy knew the old testament was obsolete after Jesus was hung on the cross.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

[Mr. 5020]

Timothy was talking about the new testament. Even Timothy knew the old testament was obsolete after Jesus was hung on the cross.:rotfl: Squeaky, you have conclusively proved how little you know about the Bible. Let me show you how:

1. Timothy did not write the book of 2 Timothy, or 1 Timothy for that matter.2 Timothy 1:1-2
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
It was written by Paul to Timothy. This would be known by you if you had ever read verse 1 of the book!

2. The New Testament was not complete yet.

Even if you are right (in saying that Paul was writing about the New Testament), he could only have been referring to parts of the New Testament, because the New Testament was not complete yet. For example, the book of Revelation had not even been written yet.

[koban]

:rotfl: Squeaky, you have conclusively proved how little you know about the Bible. Let me show you how:

1. Timothy did not write the book of 2 Timothy, or 1 Timothy for that matter.
2 Timothy 1:1-2
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
It was written by Paul to Timothy. This would be known by you if you had ever read verse 1 of the book!

2. The New Testament was not complete yet.

Even if you are right (in saying that Paul was writing about the New Testament), he could only have been referring to parts of the New Testament, because the New Testament was not complete yet. For example, the book of Revelation had not even been written yet.


Can we mock him now? :chuckle:

[Mr. 5020]

Can we mock him now? :chuckle:Yes...yes you may.

[koban]

:mock:the Squeakster








Thank you.

[kmoney]

Now guys, I'm sure Squeaky has a perfectly good explanation for his post. :chuckle:

[Squeaky]

Ok I admit it, you all have a good laugh over this. My mistake, I apologize. I showed it to my friends and they got a big laugh out of it to. They told me I knew better than that.

[Aimiel]

Ok I admit it, you all have a good laugh over this. My mistake, I apologize. I showed it to my friends and they got a big laugh out of it to. They told me I knew better than that.If they were knowledgable Christian friends, they should also expect you to know better than to discard the entire Old Testament without obeying the wisdom found there.

[Squeaky]

They asked the Holy Spirit and He told them the same thing He told me. The old testament is obsolete.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

[Mr. 5020]

They asked the Holy Spirit and He told them the same thing He told me. The old testament is obsolete.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)When did Hebrew write that verse? :D

[Aimiel]

They asked the Holy Spirit and He told them the same thing He told me. The old testament is obsolete.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)The Word of God is speaking of the covenant that God had with Israel, the one under which they were required to make animal sacrifices, not that The Old Testament is to be discarded. The covenant is obsolete, because Jesus died once for all. The circumcision of flesh to mark the Old Covenant is obsolete. The ark of the covenant isn't God's dwellingplace any more, because He has cleansed new temples to dwell in, temples not made with hands. He dwells with believers, who walk in The New Covenant, His Salvation. The things which God has commanded haven't been rescinded, except He has cleansed food which once was forbidden. God still wants us to obey His ten commandments, and to listen to the voice of wisdom (which is His Spirit's Words) so that we can grow up into Him in all things.

[koban]

When did Hebrew write that verse? :D


:doh: Right after Philemon, of course!

[Squeaky]

When did Hebrew write that verse? :D

I said
Very funny. You all are still stuck on mans wisdom. Dont you know that everything in the new testament is Gods words. If you can get past that human wisdom and start looking at the new testament as Gods words you might grow. In the meat one doesnt play them silly games. The new testament is the new covenant from God. Jesus started it and was sent by God and Jesus picked and sent out those whom He approves.

John 17:18-19
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
(NKJ)

John 17:22-25
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
(NKJ)

[koban]

I said
Very funny. You all are still stuck on mans wisdom. Dont you know that everything in the new testament is Gods words. If you can get past that human wisdom and start looking at the new testament as Gods words you might grow. In the meat one doesnt play them silly games. The new testament is the new covenant from God. Jesus started it and was sent by God and Jesus picked and sent out those whom He approves.

John 17:18-19
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
(NKJ)

John 17:22-25
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
(NKJ)


Sorry Squeaky, you've proven that your understanding of scripture is seriously flawed. Even an eight year old with Sunday School training can see it.

I'll give you this: you sure can cut and paste good! :thumb:

[Squeaky]

Koban if you knew the Holy Spirit you would realize how backwards your statement is. But I understand. You can only work with what you've got.

[koban]

Koban if you knew the Holy Spirit

I do!

Thanks! :thumb:

you would realize how backwards your statement is.

Too late Squeaky, you've shown your true colors now.

But I understand.

:darwinsm: I seriously doubt it.

You can only work with what you've got.

And in your case, we're all working with a deluded moron who thinks he's divinely inspired. :sigh:

[Squeaky]

Koban I really do feel sorry for you.

[koban]

Koban I really do feel sorry for you.


Likewise, Squeaky! :thumb:


Maybe someday you'll get saved.

[Squeaky]

Well atleast we both feel sorry for you.

[Mr. 5020]

I said
Very funny. You all are still stuck on mans wisdom. Dont you know that everything in the new testament is Gods words.Then why did you say they were...:chuckle:....Timothy's?

[Aimiel]

Dont you know that everything in the new testament is Gods words. Squeaky, all Scripture, including both the Old and New Testament is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and for instruction in righteousness, so that Christians can be thoroughly furnished unto every good work.If you can get past that human wisdom and start looking at the new testament as Gods words you might grow. I've never looked at The Word of God any other way.In the meat one doesnt play them silly games. One must feed on milk before one is ready for meat. You've skipped all the milk, and starved your spirit to death.

[Evee]

Isn't the first 4 books of the old testament called the torah? :confused:

[Mr. 5020]

Isn't the first 4 books of the old testament called the torah? :confused:No, the first 5 books are the Pentateuch, and some people mistakenly call those books the Torah.

Here is a list of the books in the Torah, according to JewFaq.org (http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm):

TORAH (The Law):



Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)
NEVI'IM (The Prophets (http://www.jewfaq.org/defs/prophet.htm)):


Yehoshua (Joshua)
Shoftim (Judges)
Shmuel (I &II Samuel)
Melakhim (I & II Kings)
Yeshayah (Isaiah)
Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
The Twelve (treated as one book)

Hoshea (Hosea)
Yoel (Joel)
Amos
Ovadyah (Obadiah)
Yonah (Jonah)
Mikhah (Micah)
Nachum
Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
Chaggai
Zekharyah (Zechariah)
Malakhi

KETHUVIM (The Writings):



Tehillim (Psalms)
Mishlei (Proverbs)
Iyov (Job)
Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
Ruth
Eikhah (Lamentations)
Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
Esther
Daniel
Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)

[Turbo]

No, the first 5 books are the Pentateuch, and some people mistakenly call those books the Torah.
It's no mistake. Even the list you posted identifies the first five books as "TORAH (The Law)."

The Torah, or the Law, refers specifically to the first of the three parts of the Old Testament; but sometimes it is used to represent the Old Testament as a whole.

It's a common figure of speech in Hebrew to substitute the beginning of something for the whole. One example: In Luke 24:44, Jesus mentioned "the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms," referring to the Writings by their first book. (Note also that Jesus refers to the first section, the books of Moses, as "the Law.")

This figure of speech is not as common in our language, but we do use it when we refer to an author's bestselling titles when we're really talking about his entire books.

[kmoney]

It's no mistake. Even the list you posted identifies the first five books as "TORAH (The Law)."
:chuckle: I saw that too.

[Turbo]

At the top of that JewFaq.org (http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm) page:
The word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament...

[Turbo]

It's a common figure of speech in Hebrew to substitute the beginning of something for the whole.

More examples of this figure, the Hebrew titles for the Books of Moses are the first word of the book itself; the beginning of each book is used to represent the whole book:

Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
Originally Posted by Squeaky

Dont you know that everything in the new testament is Gods words.

Squeaky, all Scripture, including both the Old and New Testament is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and for instruction in righteousness, so that Christians can be thoroughly furnished unto every good work.

I said
Well you can claim it. I guess. But this is what the Holy Spirit says about the old testament. And you can call Him a liar I guess. You have called Him everything else. But you were wrong then and your wrong now.

2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

I should add this for the rest of you. Can you find the word torah in the Word of God?

[koban]

Well atleast we both feel sorry for me.



:thumb:

[Squeaky]

Koban I can see you dont mind bareing false witness against another, and you dont mind lieing. Really how old are you? I'm guessing about 12. Kids dont have a conscience yet.

What I said was
Well atleast we both feel sorry for you.

[koban]

Koban I can see you dont mind bareing false witness against another, and you dont mind lieing.

Are you kidding? :darwinsm:

After you bore false witness against me and lied by posting this??? :freak:

Well atleast we both feel sorry for you.

You're pathetic Squeaky. :sigh:

Really how old are you?

Why are you so fixated on my age?

You're not one of those internet perverts, are you? :noway:

I'm guessing about 12.

:shocked: Pervert!

Kids dont have a conscience yet.

:darwinsm: You're an idiot, too.

What I said was
Well atleast we both feel sorry for you.

:freak: Yeah, I know.

What would you call deliberately misrepresenting my words?

[Squeaky]

I told the truth though I do feel sorry for you. Have you ever wondered what others think when they read your posts.
Do you think maybe they want to follow your example. Are they thinking I want to be a christian just like him, I want to mock and heckle and lie and bare false witness against others.
Do you know what foundation means? My foundation is the Word of God that is why I share the verses that I do. Now what foundation do you have? The only thing you share is sarcasm and arrogance.Yes I feel sorry for you because on judgment day your going to have to give account of every idle word that comes out of your mouth.

Matt 12:34
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
(NKJ)

Matt 12:36-37
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(NKJ)

[koban]

I told the truth though I do feel sorry for you. Have you ever wondered what others think when they read your posts.
Do you think maybe they want to follow your example. Are they thinking I want to be a christian just like him, I want to mock and heckle and lie and bare false witness against others.
Do you know what foundation means? My foundation is the Word of God that is why I share the verses that I do. Now what foundation do you have? The only thing you share is sarcasm and arrogance.Yes I feel sorry for you because on judgment day your going to have to give account of every idle word that comes out of your mouth.

Matt 12:34
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
(NKJ)

Matt 12:36-37
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(NKJ)


Sorry Squeaky, you stand revealed before us. :sigh:

[Aimiel]

Aimiel you said

Squeaky, all Scripture, including both the Old and New Testament is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and for instruction in righteousness, so that Christians can be thoroughly furnished unto every good work.

I said
Well you can claim it. I guess. I do 'claim' it, because that's what second Timothy 3:16--17 says:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Paul could have said, "All New Covenant scripture," but he didn't. He said all scripture.

[koban]

I do 'claim' it, because that's what second Timothy 3:16--17 says:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Paul could have said, "All New Covenant scripture," but he didn't. He said all scripture.

Squeaky -

Do you think that Paul, a former Old Testament Jewish legalist, considered his writings at the time to be scripture? :freak:

Of course not! He was referring to the Old Testament!

[Squeaky]

Havent you ever read what Paul said.He gave up the old testament. He counted it as rubbish.

Gal 1:11-15
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
(NKJ)

Phil 3:4-11
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Havent you ever read what Paul said.He gave up the old testament. He counted it as rubbish.

Phil 3:4-11
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
(NKJ)Squeaky, he said he counted everything as rubbish in comparison to the righteousness he received from God, not that he was saying we should burn our Old Testament. The Old Testament has much to teach us, and your lack of understanding only points out Its importance. We only understand the validity of The New Testament in light of The Old Testament. Throwing out Scripture is not a good idea. Jesus said that men shall live by every Word which proceeds from The Mouth of God, not just what He said should become New Testament Scripture, but every Word. What does the phrase, "every Word," mean to you?

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[Aimiel]

From the Original Post at the top of this thread...ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT

Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. Do you actually think that is a 'revelation?'
That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. He didn't bring any of it, nor did he eradicate it, He fulfilled it.But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. No one is saying we should begin to have animal sacrifices, are they?11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. No, it doesn't say that. It says whoever doesn't abide in the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine he's referring to is salvation, by grace, through faith in Jesus as Messiah.There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.Only for Israel.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
No one is saying we should begin to have animal sacrifices, are they?

I said
Ok let me break this down. It says stand fast in the new testament. Dont be entangled in the bondage of the old testament. Circumcised is what they had to do to join in the old testament beliefs. The nationality was Hebrew, the religion was Jew. If you keep any part of the old testament you are subject to the whole thing. You become a debtor to keep the whole law. And you fall from grace.
Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Ok let me break this down. The only thing your 'revelations' demonstrate is your lack of ability to grasp the basic concepts of The Word of God.It says stand fast in the new testament. No, it doesn't. It says to stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free. We are at liberty to learn from every Word that proceeds from The Mouth of God, even though you think that if it is written in the Old Testament we should ignore it completely. That isn't liberty, it is bondage. You're trying to put Christians back into bondage under the Squeaky-Law which states: "Do not read The Old Testament." We are free, and will not go back into slavery, no matter how you try to disguise it.Dont be entangled in the bondage of the old testament. I'm not.Circumcised is what they had to do to join in the old testament beliefs. True enough.The nationality was Hebrew, the religion was Jew. If you keep any part of the old testament you are subject to the whole thing. You become a debtor to keep the whole law. And you fall from grace.True, but we aren't advocating that you come 'under' the law, merely that you make use of what is available in The Old Testament to better understand The New. You can't ignore the wisdom of proverbs or the praises of psalms. They're too important. God wants us to learn from Him, which we (Christians) have; we have learned that the things He gave us in His Word are eternally good, and we will be learning from them forever.

[Mr. 5020]

It's no mistake. Even the list you posted identifies the first five books as "TORAH (The Law)."Sorry about that. When I typed mistakenly, I was typing from my own knowledge from the one faithful Jewish friend that I have. I used the link simply to get the entire list...

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
No, it doesn't. It says to stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free.

I said
Yes it does. The law of liberty is the new testament, the law of Christ is the new testament. We get our liberty from the new testament.

James 2:12
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
(NKJ)

Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Yes it does. The law of liberty is the new testament, the law of Christ is the new testament. We get our liberty from the new testament.The law of liberty is the love of God shed abroad in the heart of the believer. He said that He would write His Law upon our heart and mind. He does that with His Presence. His love leads us to obedience to His Word. The Lord is where our liberty comes from. You're focusing on words and missing The Lord. He wants you to see all that He has for you, not just part of it. He has His Presence available for you, if you'd only turn to Him, instead of your own misunderstanding of His Word. He wants to set you free, not bring you under bondage.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel in a clumzy sort of way your saying the same thing I did. The big difference is that I prove it with the Word of God and your trying to do it without the Word.
Which means your in the camoflouge of truth. And I am doing it with the truth.

John 17:17-18
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
(NKJ)

That also means your in the delusion that you can find Jesus without the verses(Word) which means you dont have the guarantee of salvation where as I do.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I have a love of the truth(Word) you have a strong delusion.

II Th 2:3-5
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
(NKJ)

II Th 2:9-12
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)

[Aimiel]

Aimiel in a clumzy sort of way your saying the same thing I did. Not at all. You're saying that a verse of Scripture means something totally different than what it says, which it doesn't. You don't demonstrate any understanding of what you've read, and attempt to appear to understand far more than anyone else, which just isn't true. You have need that someone teach you the basic principles of Salvation, and you claim to know mysteries which you never share. You're just blowing smoke, and I'm trying to clear it away. The big difference is that I prove it with the Word of God and your trying to do it without the Word.Again, all that you prove, every time you quote The Word of God is your lack of skill with and lack of understanding of The Word of God.That also means your in the delusion that you can find Jesus without the verses(Word) which means you dont have the guarantee of salvation where as I do.I've never stated, implied or even thought that Jesus could be found without Scripture (although if men destroyed every Bible ever printed, His Word would still live) and I never will. God's Word came to this earth in The Form of Flesh: Jesus. You reject that Truth, as you do all the others.I have a love of the truth(Word) you have a strong delusion.You have to be born-again to see The Truth of The Kingdom. You love the nonsense you've swallowed whole, but it isn't Truth.

[Squeaky]

Aimiel you said
Not at all. You're saying that a verse of Scripture means something totally different than what it says, which it doesn't. You don't demonstrate any understanding of what you've read, and attempt to appear to understand far more than anyone else, which just isn't true. You have need that someone teach you the basic principles of Salvation, and you claim to know mysteries which you never share. You're just blowing smoke, and I'm trying to clear it away.

I said
Oh I see, this is all about envy. Your fighting against me because of your envy. That is so sad. You really should work on that pride of yours. The difference is this. I share exactly what the Holy Spirit tells me. And you only share your interpretation. That is the difference.
I allow others to interpret the way they see it. And you try to tell people what to believe with your interpretation. That is called guile what your doing.

1 Pet 2:1
1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all guile, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
(NKJ)

Look at that verse. How many sins do you commit in that one verse? Lets see, envy, guile, oh yes and calling the Holy Spirit the devil is evil speaking.

[Aimiel]

Oh I see, this is all about envy. You don't 'see' anything. Envy has nothing to do with it Squeaky. I'm fighting for your soul, trying to deliver you from the darkness you live under, and seem to enjoy.I share exactly what the Holy Spirit tells me. That spirit which speaks with you isn't holy, and