Originally Posted by one4christ
Hello all, new to this website... last Saturday morning on his program, I heard Bob speak of the recent 'Ice Cream Social' and how the protest was as much about the voting records of concervative judges, which I knew little about. This information simply BLEW ME AWAY. I am not totally naive on current political issues, I try to stay informed and rely on organizations like Focus, AFA and others. But the extent to which judges have let us down is PHENOMINAL.
So here are my quetsions/issues (mostly for Bob, but anyone feel free to jump in)
Mr. Price I presume? (per your email ID) Thanks for your questions. Please find my replies below. By the way, since you are new to TOL, you'll find lively interaction on many great topics, and shameless atheists like Zakath who ran out on his commitment to a 10-round moderated debate called Battle Royale VII: Does God Exist?
, after only eight rounds. Aside from that, there's quite a lot of integrity and sincerety on these boards.
O4C: --> This is an issue that demands attention, with substantial data to warrant a response from Focus, not to mention all of the other organizations who have jumped on the 'Get Conservative Judges on the Bench' bandwagon (Pat Robertson, Jay Sekulo, AFA, etc.) What has been Focus' response been to this date? I have personally contacted them to ask for their response. (P.S. should this type of letter go to all 'christian' org. listed above?)
BE: Yes, we’ve been emailing the open letter to Christian organizations and churches,, and it would help if you would also. Actually, we need someone to organize an effort to systematically get this sent around the country. By the way, Pat Robertson just told ABC’s “This Week” that Rudy Giuliani “did a super job running the city of New York and I think he'd make a good president." Of course Rudy is fully pro-homosexual and utterly pro-abortion, so don’t count on support from Pat Robertson to acknowledge the problem with the Republican judges.
O4C: --> Of all people, we would expect Jay Seculo of the ACLJ to know better (being the legal expert he is). The organization is doing a lot to affect positive change in the legal system. Has this issue been raised to them, and if so, what has been their response?
BE: What was that you said about not being totally naïve? (Nah, only kidding.) A caller to Jay’s program mentioned our DQ protest and our assessment of republican judges being overwhelmingly pro-choice, and Jay danced around the issue and pretty much said nothing. I don’t have a transcript, but it was reported to me by a few different listeners. Of course the Open Letter should be sent to Jay, please do. When we send it out (which we’re doing), it’s easily viewed as self-serving, and it gets more attention when sent from others.
O4C: --> Others have asked, 'what can we do about this'. I don't think saying 'voting differently' is the only/best answer. We don't vote judges into their office, and I have a tough time believing that ALL conservative judges nominated have been openly pro-choice from the get go (or that presidents were always aware of what their position would be on this issue later). Perhaps some of them may have drifted away from their Judeo-Christian roots. Is there anything that can be done to impact or influence those judges already on the bench? After all we are asked appeal to congress regularly through this Christian organizations and can hold the threat of 'next election', but that shouldn't mean we ignore judges just because they're appointed to the bench.
BE: there is no fix that I have ever heard that can conceivably change this governmental nightmare anytime soon, but what we can do is change the Christian political strategy to one that at least has a chance of going forward and not backward. Groups like the National Right to Life Committee have been misinforming Christians for years, for example, giving George W. Bush a 100% pro-life rating when he loaded the Texas Courts with pro-choice judges. For example, regarding the most pro-abortion decision ever from the Texas Supreme Court, that a minor could have an abortion without the parents even knowing she was having an operation, the New York Times on July 7, 2000 reported quoted complaints from Texas Right to Life and stated that ““It was, after all, appointees of Gov. George W. Bush who took the lead on the issue.” The bad news goes on and on. I don’t have time to log it all, it’s just that no other Christian in the media has broken ranks to report the results.
O4C: You state in your letter to Dobson that he had at one time pledged, “I am committed never again to cast a vote for a politician who would kill one innocent baby.” Who specifically has Dobson backed that believes in the killing of innocent babies? Bush has helped overturn partial birth abortion, but it is an incremental step. I know your desire is to see 'zero' compromise on the issue, but then do you equate incremental change with His desire to kill innocent babies?
BE: As in the letter, the ban on partial-birth abortion will directly save ZERO lives per year. It was a battle for those who like the competition of political sport, but had never had any possible chance of actually saving any lives. On the other hand, as for it’s indirect result, voting against partial birth abortion gave pro-abortion candidates like Tom Daschle a smokescreen to claim that they are reasonable, even opposing extreme pro-choice positions, giving political cover to countless pro-choice candidates.
Of course, it is never wrong to save a few lives when you cannot save everyone. I don’t believe that those who argue against incremental change can moral defend that position. The problem with our actual incrementalism however, is that you never do wrong that good may come of it, and ALMOST ALL of our poorly conceived incremental “victories” violate that standard (but not all). For example, making it a second crime to kill the baby in the womb of a murdered mother is a perfectly valid and worthwhile law (Ex. 21:22, Hebrew word is not miscarriage, but premature birth). But any law which concludes, “and then you can kill the baby,” is not only a bad law, but it further entrenches legal child killing, not only by judicial misconduct like Roe, but now, by hundreds of legislative acts passed by pro-life “strategists.” I’m saddened by pro-lifers who are more comfortable with Roberts Rules of Order than they are with Scripture and the principles of righteousness. If our Christian leaders like James Dobson would refuse support for any politician willing to kill and innocent child, then we would have at least a chance of influencing candidates to have zero-tolerance for child killing. Republicans remind me of God’s lament in Jeremiah 2:11, for it’s ironic how the Democrats have way more loyalty to abortion than Republican Christians have to godliness and innocent life, for on principle, THEY JUST DON’T nominate pro-life judges. God pointed out the irony that the pagans are always faithful to their false gods, yet Israel rejects her true God. “Has a nation changed its gods, which are not gods? But My people have changed their Glory For what does not profit,” (Jer. 2:11).
Mr. Price (O4C), I’ll sign off for now, (it’s 1:35 a.m.). Thank you for you deep concern. Please help spread the truth of our failed strategy. And feel free to call in to the radio show to ask for more clarity.
Pastor Bob Enyart, Denver Bible Church