Was God loving for stigmatizing people? -
May 11th, 2004, 10:22 AM
Was God loving when he stigmatized certain people?
For example, He called women who sold their bodies, harlots. Of course today it isn't nice or politically correct to label people as they once were. A child born out of wedlock was really looked down upon and called a very derogatory name. Today there is little shame that goes along with this and the mother is praised for being a "single mom".
When there is more shame that is brought upon a sinful situation, it speaks volumes for ones who are considering that same situation. When people take things like adultery, homosexuality, and children born without a father lightly and reduce the shame that God associates with it, there is a greater chance of it happening and therefore a greater chance of one harming themselves and others. God was not a big meanie when he stigmatized these people. He wanted great shock value to come along with their shameful acts to ensure that nobody would be tempted to fall into such vile acts so God was loving in doing this.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan
I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Romans 1:16
You think it is loving to call a child a bastard?
You think it makes sense to complain of abortion, then condemn mother and child when it is born out of wedlock?
"If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
you see that we are the earth,
we are the consciousness of the earth.
These are the eyes of the Earth.
And this is the voice of the earth."
Slogan/motto:
Of course you realize this means war! ~ Bugs Bunny
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September 4th, 2010, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly
Was God loving when he stigmatized certain people?
For example, He called women who sold their bodies, harlots. Of course today it isn't nice or politically correct to label people as they once were. A child born out of wedlock was really looked down upon and called a very derogatory name. Today there is little shame that goes along with this and the mother is praised for being a "single mom".
When there is more shame that is brought upon a sinful situation, it speaks volumes for ones who are considering that same situation. When people take things like adultery, homosexuality, and children born without a father lightly and reduce the shame that God associates with it, there is a greater chance of it happening and therefore a greater chance of one harming themselves and others. God was not a big meanie when he stigmatized these people. He wanted great shock value to come along with their shameful acts to ensure that nobody would be tempted to fall into such vile acts so God was loving in doing this.
There is nothing loving about stigmatizing a woman or teen who is in the midst of a unplanned and out of wedlock pregnancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanieboy
You think it is loving to call a child a bastard?
You think it makes sense to complain of abortion, then condemn mother and child when it is born out of wedlock?
I know you didn't ask me, HOWEVER ... as someone who is an anti-abortion advocate, I feel it is counterproductive to refer to children born out of wedlock as bastards and stigmatize the woman who give birth to them.
The biggest goal for the anti-abortion side shouldn't be to play the morality police but rather to emotionally support women in crisis pregnancies by kindness and encouragement. There is absolutely nothing encouraging about people proclaiming to a pregnant teen/woman "What a stupid whore you are to have gotten pregnant with a bastard child. Now ... even though we think you and your child are scum of the earth, you STILL need to give birth!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly
This question is clearly answered in my first post.
Where do you get that if one complains about abortion, they shouldn't also complain about a child being born out of wedlock?
What good can possibly come from emotionally harming a teen or woman during their pregnancy? Does stigmatizing them add to their stress level and make an already difficult situation harder?
While I will agree that teens should be taught it is best to wait to have children until adulthood when they are more financially secure and in a stable relationship, not all teens will heed such advice.
IMO, a teen/woman who is overloaded by hormones and scared is more likely to decide to abort IF she feels those closest to her will be angry and make her feel like dirt underneath their feet.
There is nothing loving about stigmatizing a woman or teen who is in the midst of a unplanned and out of wedlock pregnancy.
Can you support that?
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I know you didn't ask me, HOWEVER ... as someone who is an anti-abortion advocate, I feel it is counterproductive to refer to children born out of wedlock as bastards and stigmatize the woman who give birth to them.
It is certainly unprofitable to label the child based on something at which they are not at fault.
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What good can possibly come from emotionally harming a teen or woman during their pregnancy? Does stigmatizing them add to their stress level and make an already difficult situation harder?
While I will agree that teens should be taught it is best to wait to have children until adulthood when they are more financially secure and in a stable relationship, not all teens will heed such advice.
IMO, a teen/woman who is overloaded by hormones and scared is more likely to decide to abort IF she feels those closest to her will be angry and make her feel like dirt underneath their feet.
Stigmatization is not about making someone feel like dirt. That should be intentionally avoided.
Slogan/motto:
Of course you realize this means war! ~ Bugs Bunny
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September 5th, 2010, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Stigmatization is not about making someone feel like dirt. That should be intentionally avoided.
But it isn't avoided. And seriously, I see absolutely nothing productive of intentionally trying to make an expectant mother feel badly about herself and her unborn child.
All pregnancies, even those that are planned, are stressful. For a mother who is married and awaiting her newborn, we women worry about any and every little thing.
Now imagine how a pregnant woman who is dealing with other issues in her life as well as being physically vulnerable due to her pregnancy feels when others react in a nasty manner just because they are disapproving of some anonymous circumstance in the woman's life.
The ONLY reason anyone would ever stigmatize a pregnant woman and her unborn child is to let them know they are despised and hated. There is nothing pro-life about stigmatization.
But it isn't avoided. And seriously, I see absolutely nothing productive of intentionally trying to make an expectant mother feel badly about herself and her unborn child.
She should be made to feel bad for being a slut. The pregnancy isn't what she did wrong here.
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All pregnancies, even those that are planned, are stressful. For a mother who is married and awaiting her newborn, we women worry about any and every little thing.
Now imagine how a pregnant woman who is dealing with other issues in her life as well as being physically vulnerable due to her pregnancy feels when others react in a nasty manner just because they are disapproving of some anonymous circumstance in the woman's life.
The ONLY reason anyone would ever stigmatize a pregnant woman and her unborn child is to let them know they are despised and hated. There is nothing pro-life about stigmatization.
I'm not interested in stigmatizing a woman for getting pregnant. Nor would I hold her sin against the child, just as I would not hold it against a child if the biological father was a rapist. This is about her having sex out of wedlock. This is not about her getting pregnant.
Re: Was God loving for stigmatizing people? -
May 11th, 2004, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Poly
A child born out of wedlock was really looked down upon and called a very derogatory name.
Please list some references. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one mother in the Bible who got pregnant before she was married. And neither her nor the child were stigmatized, well not in the long run.
A child has no say in who his/her parents will be, so I've never really understood why one born out of wedlock should be punished for the mother's and "biological father's" sin. Can anyone explain that one to me?
Re: Re: Was God loving for stigmatizing people? -
May 11th, 2004, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucky
Please list some references. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one mother in the Bible who got pregnant before she was married. And neither her nor the child were stigmatized, well not in the long run.
Deuteronomy 23:2
Hebrews 12:8
In both of these passages a derogatory name is given referring to one who is without a father.
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A child has no say in who his/her parents will be, so I've never really understood why one born out of wedlock should be punished for the mother's and "biological father's" sin. Can anyone explain that one to me?
But who is it that's doing the punishing? This is one of many abusive things that parents do to children. Maybe somebody could explain it to me as well.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan
I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Romans 1:16
In both of these passages a derogatory name is given referring to one who is without a father.
There is more to it. In Deuteronomy, the word "bastard", translitered Hebrew "mamzer", refers specifically to a child born of an Israelite father and a heathen mother. The sin here is idolatry. In Hebrews, the word "bastard" refers to one of uncertain parentage. The subject is those who refuse the correction of (i.e., reject) God as ultimate parent.
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But who is it that's doing the punishing? This is one of many abusive things that parents do to children. Maybe somebody could explain it to me as well.
Part of the problem lies in regarding state-sanctioned marriage as equivalent to or superior to what constitutes a marriage according to God's law. Perhaps a lingering idea from our Puritan forebearers.
Jesus was born to a woman that wasn't married.
Should we use that name to refer to Jesus, now?
The "b"?
"If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
you see that we are the earth,
we are the consciousness of the earth.
These are the eyes of the Earth.
And this is the voice of the earth."
Thanks. I'd like to do some more studying on this.
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But who is it that's doing the punishing? This is one of many abusive things that parents do to children. Maybe somebody could explain it to me as well.
Ah, I see what you mean. I actually know someone who was born out of wedlock and was stigmatized by her own mom. It's no wonder that the child quickly had her own child, out of wedlock, at a rediculously young age. And it already seems like she is treating the child worse than her mom treated her. :shake:
I don't think the verse in Hebrews was actually referring to children born out of wedlock. It was saying that those who call themselves Christians but do not live according to the law, are liars.
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