ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Where the Depature/Rapture is first found ? -
May 13th, 2011, 03:38 PM
Hi to all and most believers are told as I was to , that the rapture is found in Matt 24:40-42 , but the Context is all Israel .
But , as has been said by some , that there is one person who is FIRST in many things ;
#1 , The First one saved by Grace .
#2 , the First one with a New Message .
#3 , Appointed a New Apostle to Gentiles .
#4 , The First one in the Body of Christ and to reveal it .
#5 , And the First one to write about the Departure /so-called rapture in Gal 1:4 .
Here is a literal translation from my friend ; " the One having given Himself for our sins , so that He might RESCUE us from out of the present evil age , according to the will of God , even our Father .
The verb tense EXAIREO , which means to " to pluck out , to take out , to choose out , to rescue or deliver ."
This is indeed is the FIRST reference of the Departure of the Body of Christ in the air .
EXAIREO , and it is in Aorist tense , third person singular , middle voice , and in the Subjunctive mood .
The Aorist tense just means the simple past tense
The middle voice refers to God doing this for himself .
In the Subjunctive mood , the Aorist tense does not refer to time , but to a single act of " rescuing " and the mood indicates this is a possibility and could take place at anytime , dan p
So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
Also the rapture of the Body...
Jesus is going to return and reign as King...
The world is going to wage war on Israel...
What order would you put those in according to scripture, or is there no way to tell with certainty?
1)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
2)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
3)Also the rapture of the Body...
4)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
5)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
6)Jesus is going to return and reign as King...
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
May 14th, 2011, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steko
1)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
2)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
3)Also the rapture of the Body...
4)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
5)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
6)Jesus is going to return and reign as King...
Before all that happens, the Christians will be out of here.
We are saved by the wrath to come. No, we are saved from the wrath to come.
Romans 5:9
How? We will meet the lord in the air and ever be with him.
I like God's plan.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and I Corinthians 15...
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Steko:
1)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
2)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
3)Also the rapture of the Body...
4)So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
5)The world is going to wage war on Israel...
6)Jesus is going to return and reign as King...
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal
Before all that happens, the Christians will be out of here.
#1 has been happening, though the 70th seven has not begun yet.
#2 Israel was immediately attacked by five surrounding nations in 1948 and has been constantly opposed ever since, though it is not yet the fulfillment of Jerusalem compassed about by all nations.
It is possible that Ezekiel 38, 39 happens at the beginning of the seventieth seven and is simultaneous with the catching away of the Church.
Quote:
We are saved by the wrath to come. No, we are saved from the wrath to come.
Romans 5:9
How? We will meet the lord in the air and ever be with him.
I like God's plan.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and I Corinthians 15...
oatmeal
Yes! I agree. We have been delivered from the wrath to come:
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
May 14th, 2011, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steko
#1 has been happening, though the 70th seven has not begun yet.
#2 Israel was immediately attacked by five surrounding nations in 1948 and has been constantly opposed ever since, though it is not yet the fulfillment of Jerusalem compassed about by all nations.
It is possible that Ezekiel 38, 39 happens at the beginning of the seventieth seven and is simultaneous with the catching away of the Church.
Yes! I agree. We have been delivered from the wrath to come:
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Then:
#4 and #5 and #6.
Israel has been attacked a nation throughout the OT, even before Jesus Christ's beginning.
Have you ever read the book, "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler?
He clearly demonstrates that the people that are occupying Israel at this time are not descendants of Jacob.
They are the remnants of an eastern European culture that claimed Judaism for political expediency during the Crusades.
Evidently they were located between the Christian nations of the west and the Muslims to the east. When pressed by both to declare what religion they were, they cleverly chose to claim they were followers of Judaism.
Clever because both enemies had roots in the OT.
Very interesting read.
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
So there's going to be earthquakes and wars and political upheaval...
Also the rapture of the Body...
Jesus is going to return and reign as King...
The world is going to wage war on Israel...
What order would you put those in according to scripture, or is there no way to tell with certainty?
Hi , and not all dispensationalist will agree with my list .
#1 , The Departure /APOSTASIA or what many call the Rapture .
#2 , God will again deal with Israel , Rom 11:25 .
The first part of the 3 1/2 years is called by many in Jer 30:1-7 , Jacob's Trouble
#3 , The last part of the 3 1/2 years , that complete the 7 years is called the Great Tribulation and all can read Revelation to all that will happen to the Jewish Nation .
#4 , Then all that endure to the END of the Tribulation will be saved , Matt 13-51 .
#5 , Thus is where the New Covenant begins and applied to ALL Jews that enter the Millennial Kingdom .
#6 , Then , begins the 1000 reign of Christ . Satan is bound at the beginng of the 1000 years .
#7 , During the reign of Christ , those Gentiles that are saved , are GRAFTED into the Olive Tree , Rom 11:19-22 .
#8 , Then Satan is loosed and defeated , Rev 20:7-15 and then the WTJ ,
#9 ,Then the Kingdom keeps going on , Until the Dispensation of FULNESS OF TIME , Eph 1:10 .
And it is funny to me , because God begins with Dispensational position , Eph 1:4 and ENDS with a DISPENSATION in Eph 1:10 , and all nay-sayers and dispisers of Pauline Dispensationalism , so sad , to you .
I tried to keep it simple , because volumnes have been written on each point that I have written down , dan p
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Those "taken" are taken like the world was taken in the great flood. They are destroyed. That isn't the deaparture of the church.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
May 14th, 2011, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Matthew 24 is judgement.
[i][color="Black"]37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an
Those "taken" are taken like the world was taken in the great flood. They are destroyed. That isn't the deaparture of the church.
Nick,
Thank you for pointing that out. You have read that passage for what it says.
The taking away in that passage is a taking away to judgment, not to joy.
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Thank you for pointing that out. You have read that passage for what it says.
The taking away in that passage is a taking away to judgment, not to joy.
oatmeal
I was taught (wrongly) by "pentecostals" that is the "rapture". But only Paul speaks of the departure of the church. The mystery was revealed to him only. He revealed it to others. I hadn't thought about it in some time after leaving the "pentecostals" and becoming Christian. Chickenman pointed it out here one day, when I hadn't thought about Matthew 24 in a while. I won't be here for it, so I don't study it in detail.
Yep. Paul already said we would be changed in an instant as you know, and here he talks about it again. This is the Hill translation, which I know you are familiar with.
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
The messiah will restore Israel. Jews buying land is not prophetic. In fact, the restoration of Israel by the messiah is after Jacobs trouble (tribulation). He purges them(Israel) of evil before restoring them.
Hybrid Mode
