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Free will doctrine killed Amy Winehouse -
July 25th, 2011, 03:09 AM
When Adam was brought to account by God he said .."the woman thou gavest me..."
So on that day will sinners accuse the church.
The church is teaching free will, everyone has it, so they think, we belong only to ourselves, we are not responsible to anyone...that is the essence of free will as the world percieves it. Whether christians believe it in such stark terms is for them to decide each one.
The bible facts are that we are NOT free but in bondage to a murderous enemy unless Christ has set us FREE, and then the christian freedom is to follow the Lord and serve Him.
"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" does that sound as though the Lord is addressing people who are free. We are not free, we may choose life or death...as the Lord gives us grace through the preaching of the gospel and not else.
"There is a way which seems right to a man but the end thereof is death" the doctrine of free will which seems so reasonable and right to the flesh is a lie and a rotten deception, if people choose to serve sin and self the consequences is death.
It is the consequences following on from so called free will which prove that the will was not free after all but in bondage as the bible makes everywhere clear.
Free will also militates against discipleship, people long to serve the Lord, but are stopped by "free will" choices. That's another subjeect.
you need to come up with another word for free will
the meaning of free will has already been fixed
you are confused and may be confusing others
And I will be so bold to say to you and 5 billion others + their wives and children, NO sir, YOU are the one who doesn't understand the meaning of words or the dreadful situation man has brought himself into when he chose to disobey the only sovereign will there is namely God's will.
There is a young man in Norway behind bars today who thought he espoused certain right wing views [as was his "free will"] he supposed, but no, he was a slave to a wicked spirit that filled him with murderous hate.....what people call free will the bible calls bondage.
People do not know why they are doing things, they are driven.
Why do you howl against abortion sir, if people will understand that when they act in a certain way or live a certain life syle they will bring upon themselves and their loved ones and communities and society itself the most BALEFUL consequences.
What people need to know is not that they have free will but that they are in bondage.....Jesus has come to save us from that bondage.
"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" it is just like when people are ill and they do not unmderstand what makes them feel or behave in a certain way, but when they come to the doctor and he explains "ah the penny drops, so that is why"
So with sin, people scarcely know what it is that is driving them, the bible tells them, "you are in bondage to sin"
"But" they cry "I thought I had free will....the church told me I had a free will.....all this time I thought it was ME doing these evil things but it was because I am in bondage to sin....PLEASE SIR! show me how I can be saved"
"BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED"
The world looks at Amy and is confused, they look at Norway and they are perplexed [such a fine looking man in such a beautiful country] the church wrings it's hands bewildered, no answers, no solutions.
The bible tells it straight, "you" says Paul to the Ephesians "have been delivered out of the dominion of Satan and transferred to the Kingdom of God's beloved Son." You WERE in bondage to spirits which by nature were no gods but you have been set free.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
we know there are consequences for our actions
if
that is what you are trying to point out
what we are trying to point out is that there is no sin without free will
do you agree with that?
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No your definition is wrong. Sin is rebellion against God's sovereign will. He says "the soul that sinneth it shall surely die" He is faithfully warning here that man is NOT free to do as he wills.
Paul says bondage, Jesus said I came to set men free. If man were free he would not need a Saviour, a guide would do. Man has a guide but if you will look across the continent of Asia you will see that the guides are not enough, as Paul says he wanted to do good, but instead he did evil...that is the bondage of ALL mankind.
He aspires well but he is not free to do, instead the evil that he doesn't wish to do is the very thing he does do.
"Who will deliver me from this body of death?" the apostle cries in the anguish of his soul. "Thanks be unto God through our Lord Jesus Christ"
we are not using your definition
and
until you start using ours
you will not be communicating with us
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Firstly there IS no such a word in the bible, God nowhere has said "behold I have given you free will" He does everywhere say CHOOSE ye this day whom you will SERVE. Choose this day between life and death. The fact that you [and 99 per cent of people] call this free will does not make it so.
Man does not have the characteristic of free will any more than he has wings to fly....I think if man had free will everyone would have wings to fly....he cannot say to God "You have placed before me life or death, righteousness and sin, but I will choose to sin AND still have life."
But man has already chosen, he has already sinned, he is in a fallen state...the devil had said "you will not die" he lied, he decieved man. Adam sinned supposing that he would not die. The devil is still telling folk today "it's your life, you're free, do what you want to do, you'll be alright, you will not die"
The picture in scripture is of the Jews in Egypt...where was their free will? they were slaves, in the furnace of affliction, under the heel of oppression. God sent a deliverer in Moses, but they could only be free by following Moses not else.
Look you Americans [beautiful Americans] you think you are free and like the rest of western civilisation, where the gospel has had most penetration there is the most freedom....but let them default on their debt repayments you might be surprised to find how little freedom you really have.
Where the gospel has had no penetration the people live in abject poverty and oppression, they are not free.
But we before Jesus came into our lives we too were in darkness, we wished we could live good upright lives but when temptation came we fell. Jesus has set us free.
It is VERY simple if you are bound to sin you are not free...how can you be? So I will keep my definition not of free will, for there is no free will only bondage to sin and death or salvation.
You say but you have chosen to be saved, but to be saved is to belong to the One who saved me...a freedom I do not wish to swap.
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No your definition is wrong. Sin is rebellion against God's sovereign will. He says "the soul that sinneth it shall surely die" He is faithfully warning here that man is NOT free to do as he wills.
Nonsense. If man is not free to do as he wills, then there can be no consequences attached to sin. So, why would God warn man of consequences for doing something He made impossible to do?
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Paul says bondage, Jesus said I came to set men free. If man were free he would not need a Saviour, a guide would do. Man has a guide but if you will look across the continent of Asia you will see that the guides are not enough, as Paul says he wanted to do good, but instead he did evil...that is the bondage of ALL mankind.
You're being double-minded here. Either our nature is sinful or God commands man to be sinful. You can't have both.
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He aspires well but he is not free to do, instead the evil that he doesn't wish to do is the very thing he does do.
Yes, good intentions are not enough. Now, you're back to saying this is a Goddidit situation.
Quote:
"Who will deliver me from this body of death?" the apostle cries in the anguish of his soul. "Thanks be unto God through our Lord Jesus Christ"
Since you mean this as a jab to show the doctrine is wrong, then you really mean election did it, which means God did it. Repent.
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If you can show [shallow man] where God elected anyone to sin. He straitly charges against sin. How then is He the Author of it? How could He judge the world? I suppose utter stupidity is something that can't be repented of.
Well perhaps you can quote me where I have even hinted that sin is anything other than the result of man being in bondage to sin and not the result of any supposed "free will" that will clear the matter up.
If he is in bondage as the bible states he is how is then free?
He is not in bondage because of anything he did yesterday or last week but because he fell from the very beginning.
You say that was Adam, yes but we were IN Adam when he fell and we fell with him. He is fallen, man is a fallen creature.
You say he had free will to fall, if God gave Adam free will to sin then sin is indeed God's fault but God strictly charged him and forbade him to partake of the tree of knowledge. God could not have made Himself more plain, He said "in the day that you eat thereof you will be... what free?.... no in the day you disobey Me you shall surely die"
The devil tricked the man into BELIEVING he could choose sin and suffer no consequences. That is what the devil is doing today to people. Freedom to choose was between life or death.
If God had placed only one path before man you would not say that this was free will, why because He sets the choice between two roads do you call that free will? And Adam had to choose, he had no choice but to choose.
But the consequences of either choice was and remains with God.
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