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How much of it (christian apologetic evidence) is objective vs subjective?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyver
I have chosen the Christian side because I have been blessed with the opportunity to receive Christ.
I believe that Jesus came into the world to save sinners, he seeks and saves those that are lost. So, I think each person gets this opportunity to receive Christ when he knocks on the door of their heart and sees if they desire to ask him in.
Also, this notion agrees with the world I see around me. I see a fallen place of corruption, wickedness, and violence. I don't believe this is God's will or highest good and I believe in his sovereignty. So, since he has promised to make things new...I believe it will happen.
As far as miracles go, and seeing things, I think you're right that God calls us to faith. Faith is believing first, then seeing. I'm thinking of a quote I heard.
It's from Saint Augustine
"“Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.”
My summary of Guyver's statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
So, for you the christian paradigm best matches up with the world you see around you.
Now compare and contrast Guyver's statement with TomO's statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomO
Can't really answer I'm afraid because my Faith is based upon my experience. That is to say I have recieved that which to me is proof enough. Christian Apologetics may provide some bolstering to Faith but it is not the basis in it. Neither is my Faith based upon "what I see around me" from day to day but rather my worldview is shaped by what I have recieved.
Experience is totally subjective, therefore, what I have recieved is pointless and meaningless to you.
The fact is either I am insane and had some sort of psychotic break or my Faith is well founded. These are the only two options open in my case. I don't care which one you choose.
OUR LORD placed but one serious question to HIS Disciples; upon which is grounded everything:
Mark 8:29
"But who do you say that I am?"
Beyond that all the rest of the doctrines and apologetics are pointless.
Slogan/motto:
"If you board the wrong train, it's no use running along the corridor in the other direction." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Reputation:
February 5th, 2012, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
How much of it (christian apologetic evidence) is objective vs subjective?
Pascal said something to the effect that - In faith there is enough light for those to believe and enough shadow for those not to. (Sorry I do not have the exact quote) For the most part I would think that belief relative to origins (the ultimate start point) and beyond is subjective from any perspective. Enough light and shadow on both sides.....
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
A christian talking point that is a conversation killer.
The bible keeps you away from sin and sin keeps you away from the bible.
Yeah...Nah. A simplistic answer to a complicated question. Makes for a nice talking point but is not the entire truth.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 11:26 AM
Can't really answer I'm afraid because my Faith is based upon my experience. That is to say I have recieved that which to me is proof enough. Christian Apologetics may provide some bolstering to Faith but it is not the basis in it. Neither is my Faith based upon "what I see around me" from day to day but rather my worldview is shaped by what I have recieved.
Experience is totally subjective, therefore, what I have recieved is pointless and meaningless to you.
The fact is either I am insane and had some sort of psychotic break or my Faith is well founded. These are the only two options open in my case. I don't care which one you choose.
OUR LORD placed but one serious question to HIS Disciples; upon which is grounded everything:
Mark 8:29
"But who do you say that I am?"
Beyond that all the rest of the doctrines and apologetics are pointless.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
I am the Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California. With my wife Jan, we have two grown children.
At the age of sixteen as a junior in high school, I first heard the message of the Christian gospel and yielded my life to Christ. I pursued undergraduate studies at Wheaton College (B.A. 1971) and graduate studies at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (M.A. 1974; M.A. 1975), the University of Birmingham (England) (Ph.D. 1977), and the University of Munich (Germany) (D.Theol. 1984). From 1980-86 I taught Philosophy of Religion at Trinity, during which time we started our family. In 1987 we moved to Brussels, Belgium, where I pursued research at the University of Louvain until assuming my position at Talbot in 1994.
I have authored or edited over thirty books, including The Kalam Cosmological Argument; Assessing the New Testament Evidence for the Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus; Divine Foreknowledge and Human Freedom; Theism, Atheism and Big Bang Cosmology; and God, Time and Eternity, as well as over a hundred articles in professional journals of philosophy and theology, including Philosophia Christi, The Journal of Philosophy, New Testament Studies, Journal for the Study of the New Testament, American Philosophical Quarterly, Philosophical Studies, Philosophy, and British Journal for Philosophy of Science.
What is the christian apologetic evidence that convinces you that christianity is true?
Truthfully, I think it's impressive and impactful relationships with living christians that draws people into the faith and sometimes christian apologetics helps to cement them into the faith after conversion.
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
Reputation:
February 4th, 2012, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
Truthfully, I think it's impressive and impactful relationships with living christians that draws people into the faith and sometimes christian apologetics helps to cement them into the faith after conversion.
Yes...that is one way to explain it away.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
Yeah...Nah. A simplistic answer to a complicated question. Makes for a nice talking point but is not the entire truth.
Can't really answer I'm afraid because my Faith is based upon my experience. That is to say I have recieved that which to me is proof enough. Christian Apologetics may provide some bolstering to Faith but it is not the basis in it. Neither is my Faith based upon "what I see around me" from day to day but rather my worldview is shaped by what I have recieved.
Experience is totally subjective, therefore, what I have recieved is pointless and meaningless to you.
The fact is either I am insane and had some sort of psychotic break or my Faith is well founded. These are the only two options open in my case. I don't care which one you choose.
Hybrid Mode
