many Catholics are excommunicated and dont know it
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
1. Obama is against abortion, he just happens to respect the processes of government, and the will of the people that he represents, who at this time, have chosen to make limited abortion, legal.
2. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for disagreeing with them, or for supporting the legal right of a woman to choose an abortion.
3. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for supporting a political leader who happens to disagree with them (though, in the case of abortion, President Obama happens not to disagree with them).
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
March 8th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureX
This is both stupid and untrue.
1. Obama is against abortion, he just happens to respect the processes of government, and the will of the people that he represents, who at this time, have chosen to make limited abortion, legal.
2. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for disagreeing with them, or for supporting the legal right of a woman to choose an abortion.
3. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for supporting a political leader who happens to disagree with them (though, in the case of abortion, President Obama happens not to disagree with them).
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
March 9th, 2012, 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
SEZ WHO?
Include Scriptural support for your claim: chapter and verse, please.
Thou shalt not kill for starters?
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
2. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for disagreeing with them
False. Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. I've forgotten the techical name for that kind of excommunication, but the local bishop doesn't even have to excommunicate you. By the sin of heresy, you excommunicate yourself from the Church.
Quote:
3. The Catholic Church does not excommunicate people for supporting a political leader who happens to disagree with them (though, in the case of abortion, President Obama happens not to disagree with them).
Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. Committing an abortion carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. There are others like that.
When a Man Lies He Murders
Some Part of the World
These Are the Pale Deaths Which
Men Miscall Their Lives
All this I Cannot Bear
to Witness Any Longer
Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation
Take Me Home
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
March 8th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
False. Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. I've forgotten the techical name for that kind of excommunication, but the local bishop doesn't even have to excommunicate you. By the sin of heresy, you excommunicate yourself from the Church.
Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. Committing an abortion carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. There are others like that.
False. Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. I've forgotten the techical name for that kind of excommunication, but the local bishop doesn't even have to excommunicate you. By the sin of heresy, you excommunicate yourself from the Church.
"Heresy" is a relative theological judgement. Every Catholic disagrees with the Church about something. Priests disagree with each other about things. None of these disagreements are serious enough to warrant the charge of heresy. Nor do they warrant excommunication. No one is being labeled a heretic and excommunicated by the Catholic Church for voting for Obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
Heresy carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. Committing an abortion carries a penalty of automatic excommunication. There are others like that.
But, of course, we aren't talking about COMMITTING abortions, are we.
To be guilty of heresy, you must obstinantly doubt or deny some truth which the Holy Church teaches according to Her infallible teaching authority. She condemns abortion and asserts that it must not be legal.
If you deny this, then you either 1. are not a Catholic or 2. are a heretic. Either way, you exclude yourself from Her sacraments.
Quote:
Every Catholic disagrees with the Church about something.
I don't. If any opinion of mine diverges from Her teachings, then if that teaching is pointed out to me, I would immediately renounce my former error. Christ Himself speaks through Her, and He cannot err.
When a Man Lies He Murders
Some Part of the World
These Are the Pale Deaths Which
Men Miscall Their Lives
All this I Cannot Bear
to Witness Any Longer
Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation
Take Me Home
To be guilty of heresy, you must obstinantly doubt or deny some truth which the Holy Church teaches according to Her infallible teaching authority. She condemns abortion and asserts that it must not be legal.
What does this have to do with voting for Obama? One can be against legalized abortion and still feel that Obama was the better choice for president. Just as Obama himself can be against abortion and yet still respect the political processes and the will of the citizens he represents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
If any opinion of mine diverges from Her teachings, then if that teaching is pointed out to me, I would immediately renounce my former error. Christ Himself speaks through Her, and He cannot err.
Well, you're a zealot. Most Catholics are not. I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic schools and was an alter server most of my childhood. And I am fully aware that Catholics do not all agree with each other or with the Church on everything, including Catholic nuns and priests.
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