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Confusion over MAD, and neo mad. -
March 13th, 2012, 08:48 AM
I would like to use this thread to demonstrate that I do not view all 'madists' as heretics.
It is only those in the 'neo mad' group that I would call a heretic, due to the fact that they are the ones guilty of dividing the BOC, and teaching another way to be saved.
I will use this post to display what I am talking about, written by Jerry, a madist, and dispensationalist, who explains the difference between mad, and neo mad.
Before I understood there was a difference, I tended to put all madists in the same category, but as we grow in understanding, I have come to see that only the 'neo' group are outside of the ONE faith, that can save. Differences in escatology does not separate anyone from the BOC, but heresy does.
Those who divide the BOC, are heretics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart
My MAD friends understand this already. It is those in the Neo-MAD camp who need to finally understand that those who received the General Epistles (Hebrews through Jude) are members of the Body of Christ and were the same Jews spoken of in this verse:
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
Here Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).
Here is another translation of the same verse:
"To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours" (NIV).
Mid Acts Dispensationalist Cornelius Stam wrote, "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).
There were many Jews during that time who called on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, including the Twelve, so therefore they cannot be excluded from Paul's statement that by "one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles."
Therefore the epistles written by Peter and John were written by members of the Body of Christ and the believers who received those epistles were also members of the Body of Christ.
So, to be clear, every madist needs to decide what group they fit into, and why.
Please vote.
Thanks.
..and, I would also like to say that IF the true madists spent more time, refuting the neo 'group', there would not be so much confusion on this board.
MAD= Mid Acts Dispensation of grace. So when did it begin? And when did it begin for "neo MAD". Lay it out for us when it began, and when you think we claim it began.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
MAD= Mid Acts Dispensation of grace. So when did it begin? And when did it begin for "neo MAD". Lay it out for us when it began, and when you think we claim it began.
Yes, the basic difference between the two is that Jerry believes all of those from Acts 2-8 got pushed into the Body when it began in Acts 9.
Consequently, he believes that Hebrews-Revelation then applies to the Body.
You and I don't believe that.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
So are you agreeing that you and Nick are neo madists?
Do you agree that you are a neo ignoramus?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
He is mad because I pointed out that despite the fact that gentiles are called Jews because of their faith and belief that Jesus is the Christ, Paul was ready to share the gospel with them. Paul's words. I am ready to share the gospel with you. He has been bent out of shape since then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heir
Why have you not done those things?
Anybody? Why are these questions not answered? When does MAD start, and when does neo-MAD start? Why have you not kept Matthew 23 as told in Matthew 28?
You all (in opposition) are liars, you know the truth and cleary are avoiding it. So it isn't "bad theology". You are perverts and you have your place in the lake of fire.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
MAD itself is not heretical, only the neo type is..it divides Jesus.
Jerry doesn't believe that Abraham, Noah, and David are in the Body.
Doesn't that "divide Jesus"?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Jerry doesn't believe that Abraham, Noah, and David are in the Body.
Doesn't that "divide Jesus"?
Yes, it does...unless, Jerry means, they were not in the BOC, during their lifetimes, which is the truth; no one was in the BOC, until the new covenant made the way available. So, Jerry would have to demonstrate what he meant.
NOW, Abraham is in the BOC.
If Jerry disagree's with that, he, too...is a loony tune, like you.
Slogan/motto:
"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."-1 Cor. 10:31 KJV
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
So are you agreeing that you and Nick are neo madists?
If so, you need to not use the term MAD to describe yourself..in mho.
MAD itself is not heretical, only the neo type is..it divides Jesus.
"divides Jesus"-MeritandFear
Once again, she stumps us.
Again, since repetition is learning, for the babes/sheep, to protect them from the "grievous wolves"(Acts 20:29 KJV) such as MeritandFear.
"As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them." Acts 13:2 KJV
The Holy Bible refers to "the church of the living God" as "the pillar and ground of the truth"(1 Timothy 3:15). "...thy word is truth."(John 17:17 KJV)
So, if anyone where to split, "divide," a "church", just what would be the basis/justification of the split? One half(or whatever) sides with the truth, rightly divided(2 Timothy 2:15 KJV), the other half sides with error, not "sound doctrine", as preached by our apostle Paul(not Peter, not "the 12"), in this "dispensation of the grace of God"(yes, "dispensation" is a scriptural, biblical word, and a good one, at that(1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10 KJV , 3:2; Col. 1:25 KJV ). This, like arguing, is to be embraced-it is a good thing. This is one of the harshest "truths", realities, to accept for babes in Christ(1 Cor. 3 KJV ): the secrecy of so many Christians, when it comes to "who are you following?"
I say, shine some light in the dark "churches." Expose everybody to the light: Psalms 119:105 KJV(trans-dispensational biblical doctrine). Cockroaches scurry when the light is shone on them.
Split, split, split them up, I say. Split, split, and keep splitting. The Lord Jesus Christ came to split. He was, and is, the great divider: Genesis 1:4 KJV
; Matthew 10:34 KJV, 25:32 KJV ; Luke 12:51 KJV ; John 7:43 KJV , 9:16 KJV ;10:19 KJV; Acts 13:2 KJV; Romans 1:1 KJV; 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
A sword divides/separates. The cross divides and separates men and women-it does not unify. Dump the refuse, the garbage in the dumpster. Release the secret agent "all of the Holy Bible is written for my obedience" back into the ecumenical movement, where they belong. Then, and only then, can we truly be said to be in "the body, the church"(Col. 1:18 KJV,1:24 KJV; Eph. 5:23 KJV), worshiping the LORD God of truth(John 4:24 KJV), and separating the wheat from the chaff(Mt. 3:12 KJV, Luke 3:17 KJV), from within the true church, in this dispensation, and ending "divisions"( Romans 16:17 KJV; 1 Cor. 1:10 KJV, 3:3 KJV,
11:18 KJV). Let every "church" you join toss you out for being a "divisive, mean spirited, 'un-Christian', intolerant....." "MAD wacko", who needs to be drugged up, and properly schooled, albeit in a "sweet Christian manner", into obedience of the "church statement of faith." You wouldn't be splitting any churches, because they are not churches. They are "Rodney Kings", "Oprah Winfrey's"-"Can't we all get along, and nod our heads in agreement, as passive drones, who will be spoon fed by our 'church' leaders?", mutual admiration clubs, religious drain clogs/toilets, flushing Christians' knowledge, and thus acceptance, of the "dispensation of the gospel", "the dispensation of the grace of God", "the dispensation of God", committed to the apostle Paul(1 Cor. 9:17. Eph. 3:2, Col. 1:25 KJV ),"the apostle of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:13 KJV), and thus, their apostle, down the proverbial toilet.
"Soap Box" time: When we have spoken up on these boards, re. the absolute necessity of rightly dividing this word of truth, "christians" get angry at us. They, obviously being more "spiritual" than us, don't like us. I say, please like us(sarcasm is a biblical principle). I want people to like us(vs. Proverbs 29:25 KJV:
Mt. 6:2-5 KJV; John 5:44 KJV, 12:43 KJV ; Acts 5:29 KJV ; Galatians 1:10 KJV; Eph. 6:6 KJV ; Colossians 3:22 KJV; 1 Thel. 2:4 KJV). We will be a good boys, this time, and not be "divisive." If "sound doctrine"(1 Timothy 1:10 KJV: 2 Timothy 4:2-3 KJV; Titus 1:9 KJV, 2:10 KJV), is not important, we plead "guilty as charged."
"But thou hast fully known my doctrine(my note-Paul's doctrine for the body of Christ-Romans-Philemon), manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience..." 2 Tim. 3:10 KJV
Truth, by its nature, is divisive, and the word of truth, rightly divided, more so. Division is what the Lord Jesus Christ brought to the “ecumenical tupperware party.” And that is what we should bring. I love Christians, and that is why I give them the truth, and the word of truth, rightly divided, and then encourage them to survey the Holy Bible, and figure it out for themselves-Acts 17:2 KJV
11; 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. However, if you love someone, you tell them the truth, sound doctrine, as scripture reveals it rightly divided, whether they want to hear it or not. Truth must not be sacrificed(compromised) at the altar of today's so-called enlightened, non-judgmental, "tolerant" culture. The apostle Paul perhaps best summed it up when he asked the poignant question:
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" Galatians 4:16KJV
The LORD God never sacrifices truth for peace, sound doctrine for compromise.
Spilt, split, split………..
"And to make ALL MEN SEE(emphasis mine) what is the fellowship of the mystery…" Eph. 3:9
Let the "you bible choppers/splitters...out of context...baloney....cult....," and all that jazz, begin/continue-survey Eccl. 1:9 KJV.
Yes, the basic difference between the two is that Jerry believes all of those from Acts 2-8 got pushed into the Body when it began in Acts 9.
Consequently, he believes that Hebrews-Revelation then applies to the Body.
You and I don't believe that.
Neither you or Nick has explained how Paul addressed the Romans as Gentiles in Romans 1, calls the Jews in Rom 2, and then says that the Romans are descendants of Abraham in Rom 4:1
Nick actually claimed that the Romans were Gentiles who were proselytized into Jews. However, Nick has been unable to explain how Rom 4:1 fits into his "Gentile to Jew" theory.
How about you?
You said the Romans heard the gospel by Peter in Acts 2.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetelestai
Neither you or Nick has explained how Paul addressed the Romans as Gentiles in Romans 1, calls the Jews in Rom 2, and then says that the Romans are descendants of Abraham in Rom 4:1
Nick actually claimed that the Romans were Gentiles who were proselytized into Jews. However, Nick has been unable to explain how Rom 4:1 fits into his "Gentile to Jew" theory.
How about you?
You said the Romans heard the gospel by Peter in Acts 2.
They were circumcised. Read chapters 2 and 3.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Reputation:
March 13th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulToPaul
They were circumcised. Read chapters 2 and 3.
tet hasn't worked out how a Gentile could be "called a Jew".
MAD= Mid Acts Dispensation of grace. So when did it begin? And when did it begin for "neo MAD". Lay it out for us when it began, and when you think we claim it began.
not my job..I claim niether..why dont you go vote and lay it out as you see it?
Hybrid Mode
