[Lazy afternoon]

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


It has so often been suggested that believers are sealed when they first believe.

Granted, that believers who are baptised into Christ, receive the Holy Spirit (if their heart is right, Acts 8) but the sealing comes after, according to the many instructions of Paul in his epistles as Peter had at the first said to the new believers--

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Receiving the Holy Spirit was only the beginning of having the love of the world cut out of their lives.

The reason why the close aproximation of receiving the Holy Spirit and the sealing in the first chapter of Eph, is because the book describes the sealed as being the believers who have put off all the works of the old man and their lives have been washed by the living word of God, the water of the Word of God, which Paul later describes something of the arrangement through which it happens including the point that while there are apostles, prophets, shepherds and teachers in the Body of Christ, it is the building up of itself in love of ALL members of which All members supply.

Greek styled meetings of believers, regulated contrary to the word of God are therefore not recognized by the Lord. (Evangelical meetings are another thing)

Sealing by the Holy Spirit only comes after one has become faithful to Christ alone and all others secondary to that if not verboten.


Just search out the word "sealed" in the Bible to see that there is a vast distinction between the sealed and unsealed believer.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Here we have believers who measure up to the stature of Christ and those many believers (hopefully few) outside who are trampled under foot as worthless salt is thrown into the streets. Mat. 5:13

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The servants of our God are sealed sometime after they became servants, but if that is not the exact truth of it, they are sealed in order that they be spared from destruction.

(No, a rapture is not in focus here)

Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Was the same in the past.

Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.


Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

LA

[steko]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


It has so often been suggested that believers are sealed when they first believe.

People are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of believing the gospel.

The wording of the KJV in Eph 1:13 does not express clearly the meaning in the Greek. Other translations express the idea more accurately:

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ESV

Eph 1:13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ISV

Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, - in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -ASV

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -NKJV

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise-NASB

Granted, that believers who are baptised into Christ, receive the Holy Spirit (if their heart is right, Acts 8) but the sealing comes after, according to the many instructions of Paul in his epistles as Peter had at the first said to the new believers--

The accounts of Acts 8 are unique to the early Jewish church when Phillip took the gospel to the Samaritans which required the presence of Peter and John with the laying on of their hands to bring about the manifestations which accompanied the filling of the Holy Spirit.
One's heart is right when they believe since the salvation of the first Gentiles in Acts 10, according to Peter's account in:

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

They heard....and believed...and GOD did His work:


Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Whom was Peter talking to and what were they to repent of?
This is a unique situation and not normative for us.

Receiving the Holy Spirit was only the beginning of having the love of the world cut out of their lives.

The reason why the close aproximation of receiving the Holy Spirit and the sealing in the first chapter of Eph, is because the book describes the sealed as being the believers who have put off all the works of the old man and their lives have been washed by the living word of God, the water of the Word of God, which Paul later describes something of the arrangement through which it happens including the point that while there are apostles, prophets, shepherds and teachers in the Body of Christ, it is the building up of itself in love of ALL members of which All members supply.

The sealed are believers.

Greek styled meetings of believers, regulated contrary to the word of God are therefore not recognized by the Lord. (Evangelical meetings are another thing)

I don't know what that means.

Sealing by the Holy Spirit only comes after one has become faithful to Christ alone and all others secondary to that if not verboten.

Sealing by the Holy Spirit happens when one believes on the LORD Jesus Christ.

Just search out the word "sealed" in the Bible to see that there is a vast distinction between the sealed and unsealed believer.

There are no "unsealed" believers in the Body of Christ.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The Temple on Mt Moriah in Jerusalem has nothing to do with this subject.

Here we have believers who measure up to the stature of Christ and those many believers (hopefully few) outside who are trampled under foot as worthless salt is thrown into the streets. Mat. 5:13

This has nothing to do with believers vs other believers. It has to do with Gentile domination of Jerusalem.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The servants of our God are sealed sometime after they became servants, but if that is not the exact truth of it, they are sealed in order that they be spared from destruction.

These are 144,000 of the twelve literal tribes of Israel whom GOD seals for His particular time and purpose.

(No, a rapture is not in focus here)

Correct.

Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Was the same in the past.

This was a judgement upon the wicked of Jerusalem at a particular time in the past.

Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Though this is a Psalm of Israel, it's ideas and principles are very strengthening for a believer today.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Pertains to Zion which is Jerusalem....but again some of it is beneficial in principle for all believers.

Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

LA

This is specifically and strictly referring to the 'people' (my people is national Israel) of Israel.....not the Body of Christ.

It is referring to that future time when GOD promises to restore National Israel, as the context demonstrates:

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by steko

People are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of believing the gospel.

The wording of the KJV in Eph 1:13 does not express clearly the meaning in the Greek. Other translations express the idea more accurately:

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ESV

Eph 1:13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ISV

Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, - in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -ASV

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -NKJV

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise-NASB

Paul is speaking of the Bride, not to the church of Laodica.

The accounts of Acts 8 are unique to the early Jewish church when Phillip took the gospel to the Samaritans which required the presence of Peter and John with the laying on of their hands to bring about the manifestations which accompanied the filling of the Holy Spirit.

The Samarians did not receive the Holy Spirit until those from Jerusalem came to them and laid hands on them.

The manifestations of the Holy Spirit are common to all who are baptized in the Holy Spirit which is the point of being born from above.

One's heart is right when they believe since the salvation of the first Gentiles in Acts 10, according to Peter's account in:

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

They heard....and believed...and GOD did His work:


Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

The only difference between Cornelius and the 3000 on the day of Pentecost was the order of baptism in water. Peter preached the same message as at the beginning.

Whom was Peter talking to and what were they to repent of?
This is a unique situation and not normative for us.

It was not normative to you but is to me and all those who I have preached the same message to who were added to the church daily as should be saved.

The sealed are believers.

Believers who came out of the bondage of egypt and sinned in the wilderness and died under Gods judgments were not sealed as many believers today are not.

I don't know what that means.

Probably because you do not meet according to 1 Cor.ch 14.

Sealing by the Holy Spirit happens when one believes on the LORD Jesus Christ.

Sealing of the Holy Spirit occurs when a believer is faithful to the words of Christ which Judas was not and died, even though he had shared in the ministry of the apostles as he had believed. So you are wrong.

There are no "unsealed" believers in the Body of Christ.

That may be so. Many pretend by reading the Bible and presuming that describes them.

The Temple on Mt Moriah in Jerusalem has nothing to do with this subject.

Then you are not taught by Christ if you do not understand that.

This has nothing to do with believers vs other believers. It has to do with Gentile domination of Jerusalem.

It is hard to explain the truth to the spiritual ignorant.

These are 144,000 of the twelve literal tribes of Israel whom GOD seals for His particular time and purpose.

If you were one of them which Paul explains of throughout his epistles then you would know who they are.

This was a judgement upon the wicked of Jerusalem at a particular time in the past.

As Israel of the flesh went so does the flesh church.

Though this is a Psalm of Israel, it's ideas and principles are very strengthening for a believer today.

Not possible by your previous reasoning, but the faithful from all nations are Gods people under the everlasting covenant.

Pertains to Zion which is Jerusalem....but again some of it is beneficial in principle for all believers.

As a member of the Heavenly Zion I see your problem.

This is specifically and strictly referring to the 'people' (my people is national Israel) of Israel.....not the Body of Christ.

It is referring to that future time when GOD promises to restore National Israel, as the context demonstrates:

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

[/quote]

The meek from all races will inherit the earth.

As you rule yourself out from being of that number then that is your own choice.

LA

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

Paul is speaking of the Bride, not to the church of Laodica.






The Samarians did not receive the Holy Spirit until those from Jerusalem came to them and laid hands on them.

The manifestations of the Holy Spirit are common to all who are baptized in the Holy Spirit which is the point of being born from above.




The only difference between Cornelius and the 3000 on the day of Pentecost was the order of baptism in water. Peter preached the same message as at the beginning.






It was not normative to you but is to me and all those who I have preached the same message to who were added to the church daily as should be saved.








Believers who came out of the bondage of egypt and sinned in the wilderness and died under Gods judgments were not sealed as many believers today are not.





Probably because you do not meet according to 1 Cor.ch 14.





Sealing of the Holy Spirit occurs when a believer is faithful to the words of Christ which Judas was not and died, even though he had shared in the ministry of the apostles as he had believed. So you are wrong.





That may be so. Many pretend by reading the Bible and presuming that describes them.





Then you are not taught by Christ if you do not understand that.





It is hard to explain the truth to the spiritual ignorant.





If you were one of them which Paul explains of throughout his epistles then you would know who they are.







As Israel of the flesh went so does the flesh church.





Not possible by your previous reasoning, but the faithful from all nations are Gods people under the everlasting covenant.





As a member of the Heavenly Zion I see your problem.

The meek from all races will inherit the earth.

As you rule yourself out from being of that number then that is your own choice.

LA[/quote]



AMEN

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by steko

People are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of believing the gospel.

The wording of the KJV in Eph 1:13 does not express clearly the meaning in the Greek. Other translations express the idea more accurately:

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ESV

Eph 1:13 You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, -ISV

The verse speak of hearing, the word of Truth.

The scriptures are not the Truth.

All Truth is obtained only directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth within one's own heart (re. John: 16 verse: 13 and Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6).

The scriptures are the letter and the letter killeth (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 6). The letter is the scriptures (re. John: 7 verse: 15).

The Spirit giveth life. This is the basis of the gospel of salvation. The written scriptures and the law are not the gospel of salvation.

What this Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do is discerned within our hearts and often requires us to transgress the law like Abraham and Rehab were called to do.

We are given the Spirit of God (i.e. the Spirit of Truth) so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God (1 Corinthians: 2 verse: 12). Truth is a thing of God.

Things of God or Truth is discerned only spiritually, that is, directly and intuitively from the Spirit through our own heart or spirit (re. 1 Corinthians: 2 verse: 14)

God sent this Spirit into our hearts or spirits (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6)

[john w]

Originally Posted by Gurucam

The verse speak of hearing, the word of Truth.

The scriptures are not the Truth.

All Truth is obtained only directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth within one's own heart (re. John: 16 verse: 13 and Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6).

The scriptures are the letter and the letter killeth (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 6). The letter is the scriptures (re. John: 7 verse: 15).

The Spirit giveth life. This is the basis of the gospel of salvation. The written scriptures and the law are not the gospel of salvation.

What this Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do is discerned within our hearts and often requires us to transgress the law like Abraham and Rehab were called to do.

We are given the Spirit of God (i.e. the Spirit of Truth) so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God (1 Corinthians: 2 verse: 12). Truth is a thing of God.

Things of God or Truth is discerned only spiritually, that is, directly and intuitively from the Spirit through our own heart or spirit (re. 1 Corinthians: 2 verse: 14)

God sent this Spirit into our hearts or spirits (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6)

Translation of...

"The verse speak of hearing, the word of Truth. The scriptures are not the Truth. All Truth is obtained only directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth within one's own heart..."



Subjectivity.

Daniel 10:21 KJV
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Psalm 119:160 KJV
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.


Psalm 119:43 KJV
And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

John 17:17 KJV
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by john w

Translation of...

"The verse speak of hearing, the word of Truth. The scriptures are not the Truth. All Truth is obtained only directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth within one's own heart..."



Subjectivity.

Daniel 10:21 KJV
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Psalm 119:160 KJV
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.


Psalm 119:43 KJV
And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.

John 17:17 KJV
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Do not go to the book first.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God within your own heart, then All things will be added . . . . All things including All Truth.

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? "Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration . . . . ." Mt. 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Jesus confirmed to Peter that those who follow Him when he was physically on earth does not count for any thing. Peter certainly believed that that was something. However Jesus confirmed to him that that was nothing. Jesus confirmed that only those who follow Him in His regenerated Spirit count, only they will make it. This is how Paul came to know Jesus and followed Jesus.

Re. Titus: 3 verses: 4 & 5 But after kindness and love of God our Savior towards man appeared. By the mercy of God He saved us, by washing of regenerations and renewing of the Holy Ghost (i.e. Jesus' Spirit) . . . . and not by walking with and physically following Jesus or communing with Jesus physically as Peter believed when he said to Jesus, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee: "what shall we have therefore" Jesus answered him: "By physically following Me you will have nothing". Jesus said to Peter, only those who have followed me, by being led by my regenerated Spirit (the holy Spirit) which God sent into your hearts (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6 and Romans: 8 verse: 14 and 26 & 27) Then and only then shall any of you sit in the throne of His glory and/or inherit anything, etc. etc.

Paul knew Jesus in His Spirit and followed Jesus in His Spirit. This is how to follow Jesus in the regeneration. This Spirit passed all knowledge and directions to Paul intuitively, in real time, all the time through his own heart or spirit. Paul commission was spirit and Spirit based.

Up to this time, Peter did not make it. Peter did not know Jesus in His Spirit. For the commission which Jesus gave to Peter, he (Peter) was not required by Jesus to know Jesus in His Spirit. Peter knew Jesus only in the flesh and Peter knew and could follow only what Jesus delivered through Jesus' physical words. This was good enough for one t be appointed to Jesus' schoolmaster church under the gospel of circumcision. Peter's commission was physically based and not spirit or Spirit based.

"In the regeneration" is the absolutely important and significant phrase in this and many revelations. Re. Titus: 3 verse: 5 One may be first to follow Jesus, physically, however if one does not follow Jesus though His regenerated Spirit one will be last in line for salvation and deliverance (re. a few verses down, Matthews: 19 verse: 30) . Paul was last (to know Jesus) but he was first to make it. Paul did not know Jesus in His physical body as the disciples, however he knew Jesus in His Spirit after he was crucified, and it seems that he was the first and only one to be saved and delivered.

Whenever Jesus request that one follow Him, Jesus is referring to following Him through the mind of His Spirit. This is the kingdom of God within one's own heart . . . which one must seek and capture first.

Jesus' Spirit was regenerated and sent into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God. This where Truth/Jesus will be found now (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17)

One has to search one's own heart or spirit in order to discern precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do. Then one must be unconditionally led by this into all of one's works.

This is how to be led by and follow Jesus. This is how to be led by Truth.

Now since 2000 (odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17). The guide for Christians is the Spirit, not any book or other physical things.

The Lord is not the physical Jesus or the things which Jesus delivered through physically spoken and physically written words.

The Lord is now the Spirit of Jesus and our guide and righteousness is precisely what His Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do as discerned within our own hearts or spirits even if we have to transgress the Ten Commandments as Abraham and Rehab.

John w, you may have conquered many physical things (including, may be, the physically written scriptures), however salvation and deliverance rest in conquering the kingdom of God within and this centers on the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into your heart (re. Galatians: 4 verse: 5 & 6) And you are required to do this first.

. . . . you naughty boy, you ignore this request by the Lord Jesus and you went after the written scriptures (or your pope or priest?) first, didn't you? You stumble at that stumbling block, didn't you. Well it is not too late to start over. Come on do first thing first. Go ahead, repent, tell Jesus that you are sorry and start over. Go ahead, seek ye first, the kingdom of God within then . . . . All thing will be added.

Don't touch that scriptures first, instead seek ye first the kingdom of God within you own heart. Listen to the Lord Jesus He is showing you the way. Do not make up your own way.

Then you will have God given freedom, liberty and justification to even transgress the Ten Commandments.

[Colossians]

Steko,

People are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of believing the gospel.
You don't understand the sealing.

It is not speaking of a seal unto the irreversibility of salvation, but simply that which constitutes a mark which Satan recognises and which earmarks the believer for accute demonic attack.

Thus Satan didn't know who Christ was until the Holy Spirit came upon Him, and only then began to tempt Him in earnest.








The wording of the KJV in Eph 1:13 does not express clearly the meaning in the Greek. Other translations express the idea more accurately:
You don't know what you are talking about.

All the versions you quote have the same pragmatic as the KJV.

Let's take one of them:

"in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -ASV"

The participial phrase "having believed", invokes precursory condition.

Thus when one says, "having believed the accused, the jury found him not guilty", we understand that the finding of "not guilty" follows as a result of the jury's having believed the accused.

So then in Eph 1:13 this "ye were sealed" follows as a result of "having believed".

Therefore given that believing is not possible without the indwelling Holy Spirit, this sealing of the Spirit speaks not of the receipt of the Holy Spirit unto faith in Christ, but the receiving of power subsequent to salvation.

So the sealing of the Holy Spirit refers to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, just as happened to the Samaritans when Peter and John laid hands on them. Most believers today have not received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, even though they have the Holy Spirit within them unto salvation.

It is a good idea to not venture into areas you are not expert at. You only make yourself look like a numb-skull who thinks he knows more than he does. And grammar is certainly one of those areas.

[steko]

Originally Posted by Colossians

Steko,

People are sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of believing the gospel.
You don't understand the sealing.

It is not speaking of a seal unto the irreversibility of salvation, but simply that which constitutes a mark which Satan recognises and which earmarks the believer for accute demonic attack.

Thus Satan didn't know who Christ was until the Holy Spirit came upon Him, and only then began to tempt Him in earnest.

Obviously, it's you that doesn't.


Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit is the 'earnest-arabon-downpayment'
for the believer's inheritance until the redemption of our physical bodies....in other words, it concerns the resurrection, which central doctrine of Christianity, you deny.

It is a good idea to not venture into areas you are not expert at. You only make yourself look like a numb-skull who thinks he knows more than he does. Your condescending arrogance is manifest throughout all of your threads.

[Lazy afternoon]

The context of Eph ch 1 is that of Paul speaking to those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Receiving of the Holy Spirit is not sealing.

It is pure presumption for believers to think that they are in the position of blessing as is to the Bride when it should be abundantly clear that the church of Laodica was full of called out ones (believers)who were spiritually blind and naked.

The call to the church is that she should overcome to sit with Christ on His throne, and the work of the Holy Spirit in a person only begins with the receiving of it.

Look at all the ministry of the NT required in order that a believer can be fitted to share in the inheritance of the saints.

To suggest that nothing is required of the believer other than the work of Christ on the cross to share in the inheritance of the saints is a rejection of the entire Bible truth, which is why some believers never change for the better as those who perished in the wilderness without remedy.

LA

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

The context of Eph ch 1 is that of Paul speaking to those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Receiving of the Holy Spirit is not sealing.

It is pure presumption for believers to think that they are in the position of blessing as is to the Bride when it should be abundantly clear that the church of Laodica was full of called out ones (believers)who were spiritually blind and naked.

The call to the church is that she should overcome to sit with Christ on His throne, and the work of the Holy Spirit in a person only begins with the receiving of it.

Look at all the ministry of the NT required in order that a believer can be fitted to share in the inheritance of the saints.

To suggest that nothing is required of the believer other than the work of Christ on the cross to share in the inheritance of the saints is a rejection of the entire Bible truth, which is why some believers never change for the better as those who perished in the wilderness without remedy.

LA

Yes, and I am soo thankful for your witness!

[graceandpeace]

Col:

All the versions you quote have the same pragmatic as the KJV.

Let's take one of them:

"in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, -ASV"

The participial phrase "having believed", invokes precursory condition.

Thus when one says, "having believed the accused, the jury found him not guilty", we understand that the finding of "not guilty" follows as a result of the jury's having believed the accused.

So then in Eph 1:13 this "ye were sealed" follows as a result of "having believed".

Therefore given that believing is not possible without the indwelling Holy Spirit, this sealing of the Spirit speaks not of the receipt of the Holy Spirit unto faith in Christ, but the receiving of power subsequent to salvation.

So the sealing of the Holy Spirit refers to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, just as happened to the Samaritans when Peter and John laid hands on them. Most believers today have not received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, even though they have the Holy Spirit within them unto salvation.

It is a good idea to not venture into areas you are not expert at. You only make yourself look like a numb-skull who thinks he knows more than he does. And grammar is certainly one of those areas.

EXACTLY!

[heir]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

To suggest that nothing is required of the believer other than the work of Christ on the cross to share in the inheritance of the saints is a rejection of the entire Bible truth, which is why some believers never change for the better as those who perished in the wilderness without remedy.

LA

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



"clueless as to what happened 2000 years ago and why"~john w

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by heir

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



"clueless as to what happened 2000 years ago and why"~john w

This is an example of someone who does not know the PURPOSE of salvation.

Of course we are all freely justified, in order to be saved..we cannot save ourself. It is a free gift, but afterwards there is WORK to do.

Works of love, given us, through that free gift.

No one could be justified, by the old covenant system of law. Jesus came to freely justify men, and give us a free gift, but, at the same time, through that gift, He gave us POWER to obey Him, and it is UNBELIEF to claim you don't have to.


LA was right...you are wrong.

You want the free gift, but you do not want the responsibility that comes along with it...to whom much is given, MUCH is required; NOT works of the law of moses, but works of LOVE..and, where there is salvation, you will find it...or be cut off, if you deny HIM.

[Sheila B]

Originally Posted by Colossians

So then in Eph 1:13 this "ye were sealed" follows as a result of "having believed".

Therefore given that believing is not possible without the indwelling Holy Spirit, this sealing of the Spirit speaks not of the receipt of the Holy Spirit unto faith in Christ, but the receiving of power subsequent to salvation.

So the sealing of the Holy Spirit refers to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, just as happened to the Samaritans when Peter and John laid hands on them. Most believers today have not received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, even though they have the Holy Spirit within them unto salvation.

There may be further evidence for the distinction when we consider the "being inscribed" and "being sealed" for life that the Hebrews understood in their relgion.
Being "Inscribed" comes before being "Sealed".

Being "Sealed" does require a living out of the life of faith and obedience to revelation by the person who is "Inscribed" in the book of life.
For the Christian one receives the Holy Spirit at baptism John 3:5 when one is "inscribed in the Book of Life" - literally one's name is removed from the book of death that satan's follower's names are in-
(for the Jew this was circumscision and for the Christian this is baptism)

and a more full outpouring of the Holy Spirit is received at confirmation which is a baptism in the Holy Spirit and one receives the "mark" which can never be effaced. This "mark" is the "seal"; just as a King presses the Seal of His ring into the soft wax and it hardens. The "Seal" marks the soul as an heir. Outwardly it is the mark of chrism oil that is made by the sign of the cross on the forehead.

The more one believes and obeys and progresses along the journey, the more one receives a fuller outpouring of graces to persevere.