ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
OK seeing as 11 is a debatable manner, whom I know many Christians will disagree with you about.
Also in roping the pentecostal in with the cults you show yourself to be interested in a particular approach.
So do you mean basis Christians who agree with you on OSAS and are cessationists ?
Not sure how many none one sof those we have who are not maddists( Mid Acts Dispensationalists)
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Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
When I say 'basic Christians' I'm speaking of those who;
1) Accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
2) Accept that their a lost sinner and headed for judgement, without Christ.
3) Accept the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
4) Accept that God expects a sinner to place their faith after hearing the message of salvation in order to be saved.
5) Accepts the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
6) Accept that Jesus is the only way, truth and the life.
7) Accept that good works, water baptism, and church affiliation will not guarantee them life eternal.
8) Accept the power of prayer
9) Accept they must study and read God's word on a regular basis.
10) Accept that they have been cleansed of all their sins, sealed, and placed into the "body of Christ" and considered a "child of God" and "In Christ."
11) Accept that they cannot lose their salvation because of being "born again Spiritually."
I would like to hear from this type of Christian, not those who don't believe in the trinity, the resurrection, the Godship of Christ, or even the Calvinist nor the folks that believe in working their way to Heaven.
Nor Atheists/agnostics, cultists, JW, Pentecostals, Mormons, or "Fringy types."
When I say 'basic Christians' I'm speaking of those who;
1) Accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
2) Accept that their a lost sinner and headed for judgement, without Christ.
3) Accept the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
4) Accept that God expects a sinner to place their faith after hearing the message of salvation in order to be saved.
5) Accepts the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
6) Accept that Jesus is the only way, truth and the life.
7) Accept that good works, water baptism, and church affiliation will not guarantee them life eternal.
8) Accept the power of prayer
9) Accept they must study and read God's word on a regular basis.
10) Accept that they have been cleansed of all their sins, sealed, and placed into the "body of Christ" and considered a "child of God" and "In Christ."
11) Accept that they cannot lose their salvation because of being "born again Spiritually."
You come close to cart before the horse. Paul is adamant on his way. Christ died for your sins in your place. And was raised for your justification. Everything else comes after that. There is no such thing as "elect" as some put it. Nor losing or earning salvation. Both impossible.
A few things are flat wrong. Would you like to know which? Here is a hint. Faith is a gift.
Slogan/motto:
The sky is always up, it is never down!!
Reputation:
April 5th, 2012, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick M
You come close to cart before the horse. Paul is adamant on his way. Christ died for your sins in your place. And was raised for your justification. Everything else comes after that. There is no such thing as "elect" as some put it. Nor losing or earning salvation. Both impossible.
A few things are flat wrong. Would you like to know which? Here is a hint. Faith is a gift.
Last edited by Grosnick Marowbe; April 7th, 2012 at 12:48 AM.
That last statement comes very close to "Calvinistic." Humanity was created by God with "freewill choice." Hence, anyone is able to choose, to place that faith in Christ....
Again, you deny what the Bible plainly says, because you do not comprehend that faith, being a gift, has NOTHING to do with whether or not someone has free will.
YOU claim that men have faith before they are saved, yet the Bible says that faith comes by hearing. YOU say that men do not need to hear, but are "born" with faith. If men were (which they are not) "born" with faith, then it would still be a gift from God.
Slogan/motto:
The sky is always up, it is never down!!
Reputation:
April 5th, 2012, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by S0Z0
Again, you deny what the Bible plainly says, because you do not comprehend that faith, being a gift, has NOTHING to do with whether or not someone has free will.
YOU claim that men have faith before they are saved, yet the Bible says that faith comes by hearing. YOU say that men do not need to hear, but are "born" with faith. If men were (which they are not) "born" with faith, then it would still be a gift from God.
Last edited by Grosnick Marowbe; April 7th, 2012 at 12:48 AM.
I don't know why I bother to debate you on this issue or any other issue, because whatever I say, You'll say the opposite (the old, sky is blue, no it's not situation)
Grow up GM. Stop acting like a 12 year old girl.
You refuse to listen, because you do not understand what faith is, or what free will is.
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But, I'll attempt.
And you will fail again.
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God created all of humanity with a freewill to believe in whatever they desire.
Believing something does not make it true. You are free to believe whatever you want, but believing something does not make it true. What you believe is false.
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In order for someone to become a "child of God" they must, hear the message preached (like you said and I've said, numerous times on this forum) The Holy Spirit then uses that Bible message of God's Grace towards man to convict of sin and lead that person to the Savior.
Not complete, but okay.
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However, man still has a freewill to choose Christ or reject the message.
You either believe the Gospel or you do not.
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Calvinism says the saved (elect) have no choice but to be saved, having been chosen before the foundation of the world. They're wrong.
No kidding.
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Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Yep.
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However, not ALL are willing to believe, so if we go along with what you say, then all one has to do, is hear the word preached, then God gives them the faith to believe and therefore, their saved, that's Calvinism.
That is not what I say, and it is because of the fact that you are filled with pride and ignorant that you refuse to listen. I have said NOTHING close to what you claim I've said. Faith comes from hearing the Gospel and believing it. Calvinism claims (like you do) that men have faith before they believe the Gospel.
You claim that YOU have faith before you hear the Gospel. That is EXACTLY what Calvinism teaches.
That last statement comes very close to "Calvinistic." Humanity was created by God with "freewill choice." Hence, anyone is able to choose to place that faith in Christ....
You are 180 degrees out. You receive faith when you believe his gospel. Your version is the calvin version.
You come close to cart before the horse. Paul is adamant on his way. Christ died for your sins in your place. And was raised for your justification. Everything else comes after that. There is no such thing as "elect" as some put it. Nor losing or earning salvation. Both impossible.
A few things are flat wrong. Would you like to know which? Here is a hint. Faith is a gift.
To be sure, faith is a gift through grace. However, don't you believe that one has to freely accept the gift? Isn't that free act of the will a work that inaugurates salvation in your view?
this thread is a gift
but
understanding it takes work
and
that makes loving my neighbor difficult
so
I am going to need some help, which I will ask for
Hybrid Mode
