[Untellectual]

Christians like myself have made excuses for their sin. Is it possible to be a Christian and sin? And yet to say yes is to say yes to sin. Unless to say no is to say Christ's death is not for the sin even that we have committed since being born again from above, born of God by the Holy Spirit of God.

Therefore there is the existence of sin as an ever present reality in the world, and maybe it has had its affect in our lives as well.

But we are to live differently. A peculiar people. A people for God's own possession!

Not to do evil, but to do good. And that God would be glorified. For salvation has been bought, and there is forgiveness of sins.

[Untellectual]

The question is if it is true that Christians do not sin.

If we see someone who is a Christian and they sin, either that person is not really a Christian or Christians do sin.

[Untellectual]

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

[lifeisgood]

The fact that you are struggling with the problem of sinning means that you are a Christian, because one that is not a Christian does not care if they sin or not.

Yes, a Christian does sin, otherwise 1 John 1:9 would be irrelevant, because 1 John is written to believers (1 Jn. 3).

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (refers to “the sin nature”), we deceive ourselves (refers to self-deception), and the Truth is not in us. (This does not refer to all Truth as it regards Believers, but rather that the Truth of the indwelling sinful nature is not in us.)

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins (pertains to acts of sin, whatever they might be; the sinner is to believe [Jn. 3:16]; the Saint is to confess), He (the Lord) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (God will always be true to His Own Nature and Promises, keeping Faith with Himself and with man), and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (“All,” not some. All sin was remitted, paid for, and put away on the basis of the satisfaction offered for the demands of God’s Holy Law, which sinners broke, when the Lord Jesus died on the Cross.)

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned (here, John is denouncing the claims of sinless perfection; he is going back to Verse 8, speaking of Christians who claimed they had no sin nature), we make Him a liar (the person who makes such a claim makes God a liar, because the Word says the opposite), and His Word is not in us. (If we properly know the Word, we will properly know that perfection is not in us at present, and will not be until the Trump sounds.)


Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (2168). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

The fact that you are struggling with the problem of sinning means that you are a Christian, because one that is not a Christian does not care if they sin or not.

Yes, a Christian does sin, otherwise 1 John 1:9 would be irrelevant, because 1 John is written to believers (1 Jn. 3).

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (refers to “the sin nature”), we deceive ourselves (refers to self-deception), and the Truth is not in us. (This does not refer to all Truth as it regards Believers, but rather that the Truth of the indwelling sinful nature is not in us.)

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins (pertains to acts of sin, whatever they might be; the sinner is to believe [Jn. 3:16]; the Saint is to confess), He (the Lord) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (God will always be true to His Own Nature and Promises, keeping Faith with Himself and with man), and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (“All,” not some. All sin was remitted, paid for, and put away on the basis of the satisfaction offered for the demands of God’s Holy Law, which sinners broke, when the Lord Jesus died on the Cross.)

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned (here, John is denouncing the claims of sinless perfection; he is going back to Verse 8, speaking of Christians who claimed they had no sin nature), we make Him a liar (the person who makes such a claim makes God a liar, because the Word says the opposite), and His Word is not in us. (If we properly know the Word, we will properly know that perfection is not in us at present, and will not be until the Trump sounds.)


Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (2168). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

You would disagree with the one who would proclaim that 1 John 1:9 is written for unbelievers.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You would disagree with the one who would proclaim that 1 John 1:9 is written for unbelievers.

Yes, I would disagree that it is written for unbelievers.

If I read 1 John 1 to the end, I have to come to the conclusion that it cannot be written for unbelievers, because it says, that which "we" have heard, which "we" have seen with our eyes, which "we" have looked upon, and "our" hands have handled....And these things write "we" unto you, that your joy may be full.

That the joy of the 'unbelievers' may be full? I think not. But whoever wants to disagree, they are welcomed to disagree.

Anyway I think you were asking if a 'believer sin'. Yes, we do sin.

I am going to insert here Romans 6 in its totality with some explanation. Why? Because it is the chapter that says that we are baptized in Christ and because of it our sin nature is inactive, it is not dead — that’s why we still sin — but our sin nature is inactive, like a switch in a room, if it is in the ‘off’ position there is no light ‘it is dead — it is not gone, it is just there waiting to come to life’, but when we turn the switch to the ‘on’ position (we do not trust completely in what Christ did at the Cross for this particular moment) then light comes in, ‘we sin’.

In this chapter is where every Believer should live, but most Believers are living in chapter 7. Sin and repent; sin and repent over and over again. But we don’t know how to stop this cycle of sin and repentance. Romans 6 tells us how.

ROMANS 6
THE CROSS
WHAT shall we say then? (This is meant to direct attention to Rom. 5:20.) Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? (Just because Grace is greater than sin doesn’t mean that the Believer has a license to sin.)

2 God forbid (presents Paul’s answer to the question, “Away with the thought, let not such a thing occur”). How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein? (This portrays what the Believer is now in Christ.)

3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11–13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

5 For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done):

6 Knowing this, that our old man is Crucified with Him (all that we were before conversion), that the body of sin might be destroyed (the power of sin broken), that henceforth we should not serve sin (the guilt of sin is removed at conversion, because the sin nature no longer rules within our hearts and lives).

7 For he who is dead (He was our Substitute, and in the Mind of God, we died with Him upon Believing Faith) is freed from sin (set free from the bondage of the sin nature).

8 Now if we be dead with Christ (once again pertains to the Cross, and our being Baptized into His Death), we believe that we shall also live with Him (have Resurrection Life, which is more Abundant Life [Jn. 10:10]):

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more (means that His Work was a Finished Work, and will require nothing else); death has no more dominion over Him (because all sin has been Atoned; inasmuch as Christ is our Substitute, if death has no more dominion over Him, it has no more dominion over us; this means that the power of the sin nature is broken).

10 For in that He died, He died unto sin (the sin nature) once (actually means, “He died unto the sin nature, once, for all”): but in that He lives (the Resurrection), He lives unto God (refers to the fact that all life comes from God, and that we receive that life by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work).

11 Likewise reckon (account) you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto (the) sin (while the sin nature is not dead, we are dead unto the sin nature by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Sacrifice, but only as long as our Faith continues in the Cross), but alive unto God (living the Resurrection Life) through Jesus Christ our Lord (refers to what He did at the Cross, which is the means of this Resurrection Life).

SANCTIFICATION

12 Let not sin (the sin nature) therefore reign (rule) in your mortal body (showing that the sin nature can once again rule in the heart and life of the Believer, if the Believer doesn’t constantly look to Christ and the Cross; the “mortal body” is neutral, which means it can be used for Righteousness or unrighteousness), that you should obey it in the lusts thereof (ungodly lusts are carried out through the mortal body, if Faith is not maintained in the Cross [I Cor. 1:17–18]).

13 Neither yield you your members (of your mortal body) as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (we are to yield ourselves to Christ and the Cross; that alone guarantees victory over the sin nature), as those who are alive from the dead (we have been raised with Christ in “Newness of Life”), and your members as instruments of Righteousness unto God (this can be done only by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work, and Faith which continues in that Finished Work from day-to-day [Lk. 9:23–24]).

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you (the sin nature will not have dominion over us if we as Believers continue to exercise Faith in the Cross of Christ; otherwise, the sin nature most definitely will have dominion over the Believer): for you are not under the Law (means that if we try to live this life by any type of law, no matter how good that law might be in its own right, we will conclude by the sin nature having dominion over us), but under Grace (the Grace of God flows to the Believer on an unending basis only as long as the Believer exercises Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross; Grace is merely the Goodness of God exercised by and through the Holy Spirit, and given to undeserving Saints).

15 What then? (This presents Paul going back to the first question he asked in this Chapter.) shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under Grace? (If we think such a thing, then we’re completely misunderstanding Grace. The Grace of God gives us the liberty to live a Holy life, which we do through Faith in Christ and the Cross, and not license to sin as some think.) God forbid (every true Believer hates sin; so the idea of living under its dominion is abhorrent to say the least!).

16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey (the Believer is either a slave to Christ, for that’s what the word “servant” means, or else a slave to sin, which he will be if he doesn’t keep his Faith in Christ and the Cross); whether of sin unto death (once again allow us to state the fact that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any method other than Faith in the Finished Work of Christ, the Believer will fail, no matter how hard he otherwise tries), or of obedience unto Righteousness? (The Believer is required to obey the Word of the Lord. He cannot do that within his own strength, but only by understanding that he receives all things through what Christ did at the Cross and his continued Faith in that Finished Work, even on a daily basis. Then the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can accomplish His work within our lives.)

17 But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin (slaves to the sin nature, what we were before we were saved), but you have obeyed from the heart that form of Doctrine (Jesus Christ and Him Crucified; understanding that all things come to the Believer from God by the means of the Cross) which was delivered you (the Lord gave this “form of Doctrine” to Paul, and he gave it to us in his Epistles).

18 Being then made free from sin (being made free from the sin nature; it has no more power over the Believer, but only as we continue to look to the Cross), you became the servants of Righteousness (whereas you were formerly a slave to the sin nature, you are now a slave to Righteousness; if Faith is maintained in the Cross, there is a constant pull of the Believer toward Righteousness).

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh (“the manner of men” pertains to the Fall, which has made the flesh weak; this speaks of our own personal strength and ability): for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness (which the Believer will do, if the object of his Faith is anything but the Cross) and to iniquity unto iniquity (without constant Faith in the Cross, the Believer’s situation regarding sin will get worse and worse); even so now yield your members servants to Righteousness unto Holiness (which, as repeatedly stated, can only be done through constant Faith in the Cross; understanding that it is by and through the Cross that we receive all things, and that the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can develop Righteousness and Holiness in our lives, works exclusively through the Cross).

20 For when you were the servants of sin (slaves to sin), you were free from Righteousness (speaking of our lives before conversion to Christ).

21 What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? (This means that absolutely nothing of any value can come out of the sinful experience. It is impossible for there to be any good fruit.) for the end of those things is death (if the Believer refuses to look to the Cross, but rather looks to something else regarding his Sanctification, domination by the sin nature is going to be the result, and spiritual death will be the conclusion; the Cross is the only answer for sin!).

22 But now (since coming to Christ) being made free from sin (set free from the sin nature), and become servants (slaves) to God (but this yoke is a light yoke [Mat. 11:28–30]), you have your fruit unto Holiness (which the Holy Spirit will bring about, providing the Cross is ever the Object of our Faith), and the end Everlasting Life (so the Believer has the choice of “death,” which is the end result of trusting something other than Christ and the Cross, or “Everlasting Life,” which is the result of trusting Christ and the Cross).

23 For the wages of sin is death (speaks of spiritual death, which is separation from God); but the Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord (as stated, all of this, without exception, comes to us by the means of what Christ did at the Cross, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith, thus giving the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives and bring forth His Fruit).”



Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (1978–1980). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.


Hope you understand why Romans 6 here and I hope it helps you in every way possible.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Yes, I would disagree that it is written for unbelievers.

If I read 1 John 1 to the end, I have to come to the conclusion that it cannot be written for unbelievers, because it says, that which "we" have heard, which "we" have seen with our eyes, which "we" have looked upon, and "our" hands have handled....And these things write "we" unto you, that your joy may be full.

That the joy of the 'unbelievers' may be full? I think not. But whoever wants to disagree, they are welcomed to disagree.

Anyway I think you were asking if a 'believer sin'. Yes, we do sin.

I am going to insert here Romans 6 in its totality with some explanation. Why? Because it is the chapter that says that we are baptized in Christ and because of it our sin nature is inactive, it is not dead — that’s why we still sin — but our sin nature is inactive, like a switch in a room, if it is in the ‘off’ position there is no light ‘it is dead — it is not gone, it is just there waiting to come to life’, but when we turn the switch to the ‘on’ position (we do not trust completely in what Christ did at the Cross for this particular moment) then light comes in, ‘we sin’.

In this chapter is where every Believer should live, but most Believers are living in chapter 7. Sin and repent; sin and repent over and over again. But we don’t know how to stop this cycle of sin and repentance. Romans 6 tells us how.

Hope you understand why Romans 6 here and I hope it helps you in every way possible.

Yes, Romans 6 does come before Romans 7 if a person were to champion Romans 7 and neglect what has come before. Obedience and Righteousness. But these are not impossible with Christ, but made possible for us to live and walk out in our daily lives. Sin has been dealt with, but if we haven't put it behind us then we should follow this instruction and do so. We are alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

But it's not about living in an "enlightened" condition, that we would fear failing to make enlightened decisions. It is a real decision to do what God wants and consider ourselves dead to sin. After all, the death Jesus died He died to sin once for all. He who knew no sin, became sin on our behalf. He never sinned, and when He died He broke the stranglehold on our lives, the power of sin. Death may still be a reality because of sin, but there is a new reality. Life in Christ. And not just life for now and then death and nothing else. But resurrection. A hope that is a sure hope, of future glory. For we do not have yet what we will have. Christ has been glorified.

Then the question is if in resurrection we have that glory ourselves now, and we don't. But we know that He who is justified, experiences sanctification, and future glorification. Unless there be an objector to speak something different in the power of the Spirit and according to what the Bible says. I see not how we are resurrected now. But whoever dies, righteous and wicked, will be resurrected. We desire a part in the first resurrection. And if we be Christ's we shall have it.

Then what of sin, do we say we have moved beyond it?

[lifeisgood]

“Walk” in the Greek is “peripateo,” and means “to order one’s behavior, to conduct oneself.” It does not mean that I am not going to have a bad behavior, but that I have to order it.

Paul, speaking of the same thing in Philippians 2:12–13, says, “Carry to its ultimate conclusion your own Salvation, … for God is the One Who is constantly putting forth energy in you, giving you both the desire and the power to do His good pleasure.”

The Christian’s will has been made absolutely free. Before Salvation it was not free so far as choosing between good and evil was concerned. It was enslaved to the evil nature. But now, it stands poised between the evil nature and the Divine Nature, with the responsibility to reject the behests of the former and obey the exhortations of the latter. It is not so much as saying “No” to sin, but rather to saying “Yes” to Jesus, which becomes a habit, and then the victorious life has been reached.

Consequently, Paul has answered the question, “Shall we as a habit of life continue to sustain the same relationship to the evil nature that we sustained before Salvation?” By showing that this is a literal impossibility and for two reasons: A. The power of the sinful nature has been broken and, therefore, the Christian is not compelled to sin; and, B. The Divine Nature is imparted, and the Christian does not want to sin.

When a person does not have to do something which he does not want to do, he simply does not do it. (Swaggart, J. (1998). Jimmy Swaggart Bible Commentary: Romans (185). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press)

Originally Posted by Untellectual

But we know that He who is justified, experiences sanctification, and future glorification.

Justification — In Justification, the Lord fights ‘for’ us. I am justified before the Lord NOW. I will not be MORE justified when I am in His presence then, either at the Rapture or when I die, which ever comes first. This position of being justified NEVER changes because it has nothing to do with me. It is all about Him. He decided before the foundation of the world to justify me, he did justify me, He continues to justify me. He does everything because of what he did at the Cross.

I think that all of us have a problem with the Sanctification process — In Sanctification, He fights ‘in’ us.” This is a process. Only the Holy Spirit can work it in us.

The Sanctification process is a Work of the Holy Spirit and of Him Alone. This means that whatever needs to be done in our lives, the Holy Spirit Alone can carry out the process. And, to be sure, there is much that needs to be done. There is no way that all the efforts, schemes, or plans of man can effect this of which we speak (Rom. 8:11).

In other words, Christlikeness, Holiness, the Fruit of the Spirit, and other desirable characteristics in the Child of God can only be brought about by the Holy Spirit. God views anything else as a fake!

So the great question is, “How does the Holy Spirit carry out the Sanctification process?”

Here I will give a brief summary, but I encourage the Reader to obtain our Study Guide on this subject: THE CROSS OF CHRIST, THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKS.

We are told exactly how the Spirit of God works in a number of Passages, but the most telling is the following, and I continue to quote from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE:

“For the Law (that which we are about to give is a Law of God, devised by the Godhead in eternity past [I Pet. 1:18-20]; this Law, in fact, is ‘God’s Prescribed Order of Victory’) of the Spirit (Holy Spirit, i.e., ‘The Way the Spirit works’) of Life (all life comes from Christ, but through the Holy Spirit [Jn. 16:13-14]) in Christ Jesus (any time Paul uses this term or one of its derivatives, he is, without fail, referring to what Christ did at the Cross, which makes this ‘life’ possible) has made me free (given me total Victory) from the Law of sin and death (these are the two most powerful Laws in the Universe; the ‘Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus’ alone is stronger than the ‘Law of sin and death’; this means that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any manner other than Faith in Christ and the Cross, he is doomed to failure)” (Rom. 8:2).

As stated, in this Passage we are told exactly how the Holy Spirit works. Totally and completely, He works within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ, i.e., “the Cross.” In fact, He will not work outside of the Cross, not in any capacity.

The Holy Spirit will most definitely remain with the Believer even though the Believer might be functioning in a state of “spiritual adultery”; however, under such circumstances, He is greatly limited, as should be obvious. To be frank, the Holy Spirit doesn’t demand much of us, but He does demand that our faith be exclusively in Christ and the Cross, and that means that nothing else must be added. If anything else is added, it cancels out the Cross and becomes “spiritual adultery.”

Once again, coming into play are the marriage vows which Paul used in the first four verses of the Seventh Chapter of Romans. If the woman is unfaithful to her husband, “she shall be called an adulteress.” Paul then tells us plainly that we are married to Christ. As such, He is to supply our every need, whatever it might be, which He does solely by and through the Cross. As we’ve previously stated, this demands that the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith.

If our faith is correct, the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can bring to pass in our lives that which is needed, will work mightily on our behalf. He will then begin to develop His Fruit, to develop Righteousness and Holiness, and to make us what we ought to be. (Swaggart, J. (2005). The Cross of Christ Study Guide Series: Spiritual Adultery (29–30). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.)

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Then what of sin, do we say we have moved beyond it?

No, we never moved beyond sin. There will be times when we will sin. Because remember, like I said before, the ‘sin nature’ is inactive but it is still in us. It is not dead. We come back to Christ and what He did in the Cross EVERY DAY so that the Holy Spirit can work in my life to sanctify me. I cannot sanctify myself (I cannot stop sinning by myself. The Holy Spirit has to do it inside of me and then it will show in the outside [ordering my behavior]). We MUST be always saying ‘yes’ to Christ and eventually we will stop being ‘dominated’ by sin nature. THIS IS A PROCESS.

Salvation is a one time thing.

Sanctification is a process. A lifelong process and ONLY the Holy Spirit can do it.

[sky.]

1 Corinthians 11:31-32

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by sky.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Yes.

Romans 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This first or after.

[sky.]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Yes.

Romans 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This first or after.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32

That verse is an applied remedy after sinning also they speak of a timetable of sorts for confession of sins.

1 John 1:99 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 4:26
26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath,

1 Corinthians 11:27-32
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

[sky.]

1 Corinthians 11:31-32

First we should meditate on the Scriptures Psalm 119:11

This is preventative and the intercessory work of the Messiah.

John 17:15

Romans 8:34

Hebrews 7:25

[Untellectual]

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

[Untellectual]

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

[Untellectual]

27-28 Perhaps said and coupled with

Matthew 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Hopefully correctly rather than otherwise. Conviction comes. Right interpretation is needed.