ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
Catholic's Don't Know What Is Required -
May 11th, 2012, 06:01 AM
I tried to find out what the specifics were and what is required for salvation in the Catholic religion.
I wanted to know...
How many wafers one must eat before God sees one as righteous?
How much grape juice one must drink before God sees one as righteous?
How many times must one attend mass?
After doing many religious things when does God say you have done enough? You are now infused with the virtues of Christ and are justified.
I did not get a satisfactory answer because they don't know.
I do know. Please listen carefully and I will tell you what God requires.
God REQUIRES a life of absolute and total obedience to His Holy law.
If you fall short of keeping and doing God's Holy Law you have sinned. Sin is the transgression of God's Holy Law, 1 John 3:4.
Paul said, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23.
God does not accept the obedience of sinners.
God REQUIRES a perfect sacrafice for your sins.
Jesus Christ was "The Lamb of God" who was without spot or blemish. He was sinless. He and only He could atone for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.
What does God REQUIRE? God requires perfection. God REQUIRES Jesus Christ. In your name and on your behalf Jesus Christ has fulfilled God's Holy Law and has atoned for your sins.
You don't have a righteousness that God requires, this is why you need a savior. A savior does not show you how to be saved, a savior saves you.
Slogan/motto:
Hope sees the invisible, achieves the impossible.
Reputation:
May 11th, 2012, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
I tried to find out what the specifics were and what is required for salvation in the Catholic religion.
I did answer your question and tell you. You ignored it because you didn't like what I said and I wasn't supposed to have an answer anyway (that happens a lot around here...)
Just because you don't like our answers doesn't mean we don't know.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
May 11th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
I tried to find out what the specifics were and what is required for salvation in the Catholic religion.
I wanted to know...
How many wafers one must eat before God sees one as righteous?
I wonder if anyone read any further than that? Or how many people even take the time to read any of your threads at all?
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Mt 24:5 For many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mr 13:6 For many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Lu 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and Catholics shall wax worse and worse,
deceiving, and being deceived.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived the Catholics was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever
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Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
May 12th, 2012, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA
ROBERT PATE
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH CATHOLICS.
THEY ARE PROPHECIED TO BE DECEIVED.
Mt 24:5 For many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mr 13:6 For many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Lu 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many Catholics shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and Catholics shall wax worse and worse,
deceiving, and being deceived.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived the Catholics was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever
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Catholics are lost souls that have been blinded by Satan, 2 Corinthians 4:3.
Only the light of the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ can enlighten them, John 3:21.
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 49382
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
May 12th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
I tried to find out what the specifics were and what is required for salvation in the Catholic religion.
I wanted to know...
How many wafers one must eat before God sees one as righteous?
How much grape juice one must drink before God sees one as righteous?
How many times must one attend mass?
After doing many religious things when does God say you have done enough? You are now infused with the virtues of Christ and are justified.
I did not get a satisfactory answer because they don't know.
I do know. Please listen carefully and I will tell you what God requires.
God REQUIRES a life of absolute and total obedience to His Holy law.
What you claim is God's requirement is a lie of the adversary that keeps being repeated by people that prove they hate God because they refuse to keep His commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Here is what God requires of someone in order to be saved:
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
The only thing that is required to be saved is to please God.
Because of that, many Catholics will enter the kingdom of God.
Many others that rely on what Jesus did on the cross while continuing to sin against God will not please Him and will not enter the kingdom of God.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
May 12th, 2012, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
What you claim is God's requirement is a lie of the adversary that keeps being repeated by people that prove they hate God because they refuse to keep His commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Here is what God requires of someone in order to be saved:
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
The only thing that is required to be saved is to please God.
Because of that, many Catholics will enter the kingdom of God.
Many others that rely on what Jesus did on the cross while continuing to sin against God will not please Him and will not enter the kingdom of God.
Please tell me how a sinner like yourself can please God?
Here is your problem. God's law is spiritual, Romans 7:14.
It searches the desires and the intents of the heart, Hebrews 4:12.
Even if you were able to keep the commandments you would still fail. The spiritual law would condemn you.
Have you ever lusted? Of course you have. This makes you a sinner. God does not accept the obedience of sinners.
How many wafers one must eat before God sees one as righteous?
How much grape juice one must drink before God sees one as righteous?
Catholics don't receive wafers of bread and grape juice at the Sacrifice of the Mass. Catholics receive the actual body and blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't understand what the word "righteous" means in this case. In order to receive the body and blood of Christ worthily, you must, to the best of your knowledge, be in a state of grace. You already must have infused charity (the in-dwelling of the Holy Ghost).
Of course, receiving the Eucharist worthily does confer boundless graces (the remission of venial sins, the remission of temporal punishments [I think; I'm not sure of this one; my Catholic brethren are welcome to correct me], etc.).
So it's not as though you can move from a state of unrighteousness to a state of righteouness by receiving the Eucharist. As a matter of fact, if you receive the Eucharist unworthily, you heap up even more "unrighteousness" for yourself.
But it's not as though you are perfectly righteous after receiving the Eucharist, even worthily. Otherwise, there would be no need for the Eucharist to confer graces.
We only become truly and perfectly righteous when we are completely purged of all guilt and punishment which has accrued to us on account of our sins, and not only that, but only when our soul has been so completely restored by Divine Grace that we are no longer under the influence of the law of the fomes (Romans 7:23).
This is only accomplished, in general, at the very last moment of a holy soul's purification in Purgatory.*
The Protestant fails to understand: 1. the relationship between grace and nature (grace perfects nature; grace does not abolish nature) 2. the participated nature of human righteousness.
Quote:
How many times must one attend mass?
You must attend mass at least once every Sunday, plus on all of the Holy Days of Obligation. But it's not as though this will make you perfectly righteous. It will, again, confer many graces. But simply going to mass will not make you righteous when you before were unrighteous.
Quote:
After doing many religious things when does God say you have done enough? You are now infused with the virtues of Christ and are justified.
We receive the infused virtues (faith, hope and charity) at baptism. This is strengthened in confirmation. Mortal sin drives out charity from the soul. This is [ordinarily] restored through the sacrament of penance.
Quote:
You don't have a righteousness that God requires, this is why you need a savior. A savior does not show you how to be saved, a savior saves you.
Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between grace and nature. I recommend the prima secundae of the Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas Aquinas. I also recommend St. Augustine.
*This is not to say that the Holy Souls in Purgatory are under the law of the fomes.
Last edited by Traditio; May 13th, 2012 at 07:23 PM.
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