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A closer look at "baptizo" (to baptize) -
May 30th, 2012, 02:50 PM
Baptizo
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water,
to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
“Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with
the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation.
Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief
that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come
into increasing prominence.” … From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism...he_Holy_Spirit
When the Holy Spirit comes UPON you, it’s like He envelopes, surrounds, overwhelms you.
It’s like you are immersed in the Holy Spirit. Here are 2 passages describing it:
“… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
… you shall receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:5,8)
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remember the word of the Lord, how He said,
‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
… God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ”
(Acts 11:15-17)
This “gift” of Holy Spirit baptism is not salvation … it is a special anointing after salvation.
The above is much different than when one is born-again at salvation
… when the Holy Spirit ENTERS you and remains INSIDE of you:
“And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)
The Holy Spirit is INSIDE of born-again Christians:
Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16. .
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
Baptizo
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water,
to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
“Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with
the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation.
Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief
that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come
into increasing prominence.” … From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism...he_Holy_Spirit
When the Holy Spirit comes UPON you, it’s like He envelopes, surrounds, overwhelms you.
It’s like you are immersed in the Holy Spirit. Here are 2 passages describing it:
“… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
… you shall receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:5,8)
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remember the word of the Lord, how He said,
‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
… God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ”
(Acts 11:15-17)
This “gift” of Holy Spirit baptism is not salvation … it is a special anointing after salvation.
The above is much different than when one is born-again at salvation
… when the Holy Spirit ENTERS you and remains INSIDE of you:
“And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)
The Holy Spirit is INSIDE of born-again Christians:
Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16. .
“Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with
the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation.Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come
into increasing prominence.”
Both of these views concerning water baptism are wrong.
There is no regeneration taking place during the ritual of water baptism. This is the work of the Holy Spirit and He is not dependent upon this ritual.
The other Pentecostal/charismatic reference is reference to those who believe that speaking in tongues is "the evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit baptizes and seals us into the Body of Christ when we are saved by having put our faith in the finished work of Christ. As per Paul's teaching to the Corinthians tongues is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These gifts are gifts from Him.
What we read about in Acts Chapter Two is the fulfillment of prophecy. Water baptizers and Pentecostals alike have distorted second chapter of that Book and have confused a large percentage of Christians.
“Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with
the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation.Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come
into increasing prominence.”
Both of these views concerning water baptism are wrong.
There is no regeneration taking place during the ritual of water baptism. This is the work of the Holy Spirit and He is not dependent upon this ritual.
The other Pentecostal/charismatic reference is reference to those who believe that speaking in tongues is "the evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit baptizes and seals us into the Body of Christ when we are saved by having put our faith in the finished work of Christ. As per Paul's teaching to the Corinthians tongues is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These gifts are gifts from Him.
What we read about in Acts Chapter Two is the fulfillment of prophecy. Water baptizers and Pentecostals alike have distorted second chapter of that Book and have confused a large percentage of Christians.
Why must you all insert so many things that are not spoken by the Lord, and are spoken by inspiration? - If the Lord is untrue, then add Truth to the things He has said, for fullness of the Truth sake. – HOWEVER!!! – If the things the Lord has said are Truth, for righteousness sake, leave things that are truthfully spoken as “IS”!!
I guess most of us know what Baptism “IS”. If it is, then it washes away sin. If it is not what it is, it will not wash away sin. BUT, the Lord is Truth, and said that Baptism does wash away thy sins. - THEN does it follow, that Baptism DOES NOT WASH AWAY SINS? -- If the Lord said that Baptism does not wash away sins, - then we could conclude that Baptism does not wash away sin. Where does the Lord imply that Baptism does, or does not wash away sins? --- By all means / “BY EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE, show anywhere that the Lord implies that Baptism does not wash away sins!! – Remember now, “Whatsoever that is bound on earth, SHALL BE bound in Heaven”. --- Baptism is a BINDING, is it not? - If one is bound by baptism on earth, ( by water ), then it does follow that the binding shall also be bound in Heaven by something posing as water of some sort. Could it not be the Spirit, maybe the Water of the Word?? If one is raised up from the water, why than are we not: >> --- Ephesians 2:6 KJV --- NOOO! – “That doesn’t make any sense at all”, says the great masses!! – “And many there be that find it”.
Paul – 053012
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Claiming to be baptized in only the Spirit is a pathetic, weak, lazy mans faith. It goes with peoples fear of doing things God commands because people might take it as "works salvation." Call it what you want, my God asks me to do something, and I'm going to do it. If that includes being baptized into water, which if you read verses like Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 it DOES, then that is what I'm going to do. If you want to go on and on about how its a work of man be my guest but you saying it doesn't make it so. God has established it, not man, and so I can rest assure that it is what I must do. Christ commands that all who believe be baptized, well I'm baptized, in water, for the remission of my sins and if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the guy who told me to do it.
Claiming to be baptized in only the Spirit is a pathetic, weak, lazy mans faith. It goes with peoples fear of doing things God commands because people might take it as "works salvation." Call it what you want, my God asks me to do something, and I'm going to do it. If that includes being baptized into water, which if you read verses like Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 it DOES, then that is what I'm going to do. If you want to go on and on about how its a work of man be my guest but you saying it doesn't make it so. God has established it, not man, and so I can rest assure that it is what I must do. Christ commands that all who believe be baptized, well I'm baptized, in water, for the remission of my sins and if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the guy who told me to do it.
Jesus Christ just says it!! -- AND that is the most FOOLISH thing in all Scripture!! --- (( BUT ))!!! - 1 Corinthians 1:27 KJV – “GOD HATH CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS of the world to confound the "WISE”. -----//-- The word “Wise” there MEANS, "FOOL"!!
Paul – 053112
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
July 18th, 2012, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot
Claiming to be baptized in only the Spirit is a pathetic, weak, lazy mans faith. It goes with peoples fear of doing things God commands because people might take it as "works salvation." Call it what you want, my God asks me to do something, and I'm going to do it. If that includes being baptized into water, which if you read verses like Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 it DOES, then that is what I'm going to do. If you want to go on and on about how its a work of man be my guest but you saying it doesn't make it so. God has established it, not man, and so I can rest assure that it is what I must do. Christ commands that all who believe be baptized, well I'm baptized, in water, for the remission of my sins and if you have a problem with it you can take it up with the guy who told me to do it.
You must be an old covenant Jew then... because that is who Jesus was speaking to.
You must be an old covenant Jew then... because that is who Jesus was speaking to.
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Do I really have to explain how this is not just Jews?
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
July 18th, 2012, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Do I really have to explain how this is not just Jews?
Do I really have to explain that the word baptize here doesn't mean water baptism?
Just as John the Baptist foretold... and is recorded in scripture. It does make perfect sense how the apostles were so messed up when it came to Jewish customs that were made irrelevant in the new covenant (since their world view was based on Judiasm).
Do I really have to explain that the word baptize here doesn't mean water baptism?
Just as John the Baptist foretold... and is recorded in scripture. It does make perfect sense how the apostles were so messed up when it came to Jewish customs that were made irrelevant in the new covenant (since their world view was based on Judiasm).
Nobody had to explain baptism to those they called to convert because it was so obvious what it was. If it wasn't water baptism why were people water baptized into the name of Christ?
I would like to explain several reasons WHY this baptism with the Holy Spirit
has NOT been accepted by the mainstream churches over the past 100 years.
Note: God began to bring it back into prominence in the early 1900's
(and people say it's connected with Joel 2).
28 And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
It is a special anointing for ministry (after salvation).
It is connected with the 9 gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12).
Some church leaders were ignorant that it is of God.
Some church leaders were not given this baptism, nor any of the 9 spiritual gifts,
and they were jealous of those who had any of this.
Even today, we see church leaders being jealous, even fearful,
of those who are "more spiritual" than they are.
After all, church leaders are supposed to be the leaders, right?
Also, they don't want to risk causing their precious followers to leave
due to questionable doctrine. After all, their livelihood depends on their tithes.
The Lord is in the process of bringing down such ministries.
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
Baptizo
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water,
to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
“Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with
the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration or through rites of Christian initiation.
Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief
that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come
into increasing prominence.” … From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism...he_Holy_Spirit
When the Holy Spirit comes UPON you, it’s like He envelopes, surrounds, overwhelms you.
It’s like you are immersed in the Holy Spirit. Here are 2 passages describing it:
“… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
… you shall receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:5,8)
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remember the word of the Lord, how He said,
‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
… God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ”
(Acts 11:15-17)
This “gift” of Holy Spirit baptism is not salvation … it is a special anointing after salvation.
The above is much different than when one is born-again at salvation
… when the Holy Spirit ENTERS you and remains INSIDE of you:
“And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)
The Holy Spirit is INSIDE of born-again Christians:
Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16. .
There is nothing here to imply that this is a permanent "anointing." Indeed, in 1 Cor 12, it seems pretty clear that the Holy Spirit "comes upon" a person for the execution of a specific gift, and that's it.
The problem with this "special anointing" kind of thinking is that the individual starts to assert control over the Holy Spirit, rather than vice versa.
I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.
2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
There is nothing here to imply that this is a permanent "anointing." Indeed, in 1 Cor 12, it seems pretty clear that the Holy Spirit "comes upon" a person for the execution of a specific gift, and that's it.
The problem with this "special anointing" kind of thinking is that the individual starts to assert control over the Holy Spirit, rather than vice versa.
Where in the Lake of Fire did you come up with all that nonsense that GOD DIDN'T SAY????
It's clear that Christ said to be Baptized, and there is nothing that any of you can bring out of the Word of God to debunk CHRIST'S DOCTRINE OF BAPTISM!! -- After all, it's Christ who is doing the speaking about it, either way, and those who cannot hear assume that they can read the Lord's lips, when they cannot see the Truth either!! --- God just says what He says, and the lost just say what they say that contradicts what the Lord says!!!! And they are SMART?
If one cannot see the foolish things that God says and does, then join the Geniuses who make up all the SMART STUFF FOR GOD!!!
Paul -- 053112
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Where in the Lake of Fire did you come up with all that nonsense that GOD DIDN'T SAY????
God didn't say you could control the Holy Spirit. You OK with that?
Quote:
It's clear that Christ said to be Baptized, and there is nothing that any of you can bring out of the Word of God to debunk CHRIST'S DOCTRINE OF BAPTISM!!
But when water baptized, I shouldn't have stayed under the water, should I?
I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.
2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
Once again, if people would just study the Tabernacle, the pattern of things in the heavenlies according to Heb. 10. The Ark of the Covenant, which we NOW ARE, had a covering of gold (speaks of the higher nature of God) on the INSIDE AND, on the OUTSIDE, of a wooden chest (wood speaks of the carnal nature of man).
As He told Moses, MAKE IT ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN SHOWN THEE ON THE MOUNT.
Once again, if people would just study the Tabernacle, the pattern of things in the heavenlies according to Heb. 10. The Ark of the Covenant, which we NOW ARE, had a covering of gold (speaks of the higher nature of God) on the INSIDE AND, on the OUTSIDE, of a wooden chest (wood speaks of the carnal nature of man).
As He told Moses, MAKE IT ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN SHOWN THEE ON THE MOUNT.
A Christian does not NEED to study!! -- The Holy Ghost guides the Christian into all Truth, OR HE DOES NOT!!! --- Matthew 10:19 KJV ----//-- If you think He does not, then you STUDY like any other scientist, or unlearned unbeliever!! --- You say, “Study the Tabernacle”. – WHAT ABOUT JUST HAVING FAITH IN WHAT CHRIST SAYS??? Where did you come up with that way of believing anything about Baptism?? Christ talks about Baptism in His doctrine of Baptism, not Tabernacles!! --- All that stuff is just to divert the Truth from Baptism to something that you have conjured up in your own heart!! Read the Book and believe what the Lord says in it. Read it over and over again!! Or just have it your own way, and not the Lord’s “WAY”.
Paul – 053112
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Hybrid Mode
