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Who is the Rock, Peter or Christ? -
June 27th, 2012, 04:01 AM
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Many think that it was Peter that Christ was refering to but they need to read their Bibles and understand who was and is the Rock.
Ps 18:31 For who [is] God save the LORD (Jehovah)? or who [is] a rock save our God?
Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Luke 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mt 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Det 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.(The Son of God is the Creator that “formed thee.”
1Sam 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD (Jehovah): for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2Sam 22:2 And he said, The LORD (Jehovah) is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
Det 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Note: Jesus is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are Judgment, A God of truth (He is the truth; John 14:6), Jesus is with out iniquity (Hebrews 4:15), just and right is He.
1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
June 27th, 2012, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom
why would Jesus change Simon's name to Peter?
John 1:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter[a]).
Footnotes:
John 1:42 Cephas (Aramaic) and Peter (Greek) both mean rock.
Actually those names describe a small piece of the rock being as the names are feminine and therefore come from a more powerful masculine name.
Where we have a clear indication that the rock is Christ is later in the words of Paul when speaking of the metaphor of when the Jews were in the wilderness.
1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
Actually those names describe a small piece of the rock being as the names are feminine and therefore come from a more powerful masculine name.
Where we have a clear indication that the rock is Christ is later in the words of Paul when speaking of the metaphor of when the Jews were in the wilderness.
1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
so Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter to confuse over half the Christian population?
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
June 27th, 2012, 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone
Names were changed representing the new life from the old life in the same way that Saul became Paul
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
June 27th, 2012, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone
1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
"and that Rock was Christ"
Everything else posted in this thread arguing for Peter as the Rock will ignore that phrase.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Everything else posted in this thread arguing for Peter as the Rock will ignore that phrase.
The name "Peter" means "rock":
John 1:42 YLT
and he brought him unto Jesus: and having looked upon him, Jesus saith, `Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas, thou shalt be called Cephas,' (which is interpreted, A rock.)
"Cephas is Aramaic for the word Rock and it only means rock. It has no other meanings. Neither the Greek equivalent Petros nor, with one isolated exception, Cephas is attested as a personal name before Christian times" (source).
As Matthew 16:18 YLT states:
`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it...'
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
June 28th, 2012, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulos
The name "Peter" means "rock":
Sorry.
Peter is a lively stone in the spiritual priesthood, but there are hundreds of scriptures that show me who the Rock is: The LORD
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Everything else posted in this thread arguing for Peter as the Rock will ignore that phrase.
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
The Christ is the rock. And upon that rock he will build his church. Peter being the apostle of circumcision will have dominion over that earthly church built upon the Christ.
So easy, only an intentional pervert would claim to not get it.
Many think that it was Peter that Christ was refering to but they need to read their Bibles and understand who was and is the Rock.
The answer to the question of who or what Jesus was referring to as "this rock" upon which Jesus said He would build his Church in Matthew 16:18 tends to differ between Catholics and Protestants. Even the early Church Fathers expressed several different views, i.e., 1) that the rock was Jesus, 2) the rock was Peter, or 3) the rock was Peter's confession of faith that "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God".
Could it be that all three views are true? It would seem to me that we cannot separate Peter from his confession that Jesus is the Christ insofar as the thing said and the person saying it go together. For example, Ephesians 2:19-20 does not say that the Church is built exclusively on what the Apostles said and not upon the Apostles themselves, and this is because the thing that is said cannot be separated from the person who said it. If so, both Peter and his confession of faith can be spoken of as the same rock upon which the church is built. This view can be supported by Matthew 16:16-18, John 1:42 YLT, Acts 15:7, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 2:20, Revelation 21:14, and Matthew 10:2.
Of course, the Church is founded upon Christ, as St. Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 3:11
"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Paul refers to Jesus as the sole foundation of the Church in 1 Corinthians 3:11, but in his epistle to the Ephesians, he also refers to "the apostles and prophets" as comprising "the foundation", with Jesus Christ being "the Chief Cornerstone":
Ephesians 2:20 Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" (cf. 1 Peter 2:4-6)
Also, Revelation 21:14 says that the New Jerusalem has twelve foundations, one foundation for each of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ. God appointed the Apostles to be first in the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28), and since Peter was the foremost Apostle among the Twelve Apostles, it is reasonable to say that the first of the twelve apostolic foundations upon which the Church is built is Peter.
All of the apostles are foundational (Ephesians 2:20), and Peter is first among the Twelve Apostles (Matthew 10:2); therefore, Peter is the first layer of foundation after Christ. Again, Christ is first, and then the remainder of the Church is established on the Apostles with Peter being first among the Apostles. Therefore, it is fair for us to agree with the statement of Jesus in Matthew 16:18, "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church".
In Scripture, Jesus is called the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:11), the stone (Matthew 21:42, 1 Pet 2:4), the builder (Matthew 16:18), the chief cornerstone (Acts 4:11), and the temple (John 2:19-21, Revelation 21:22).
Interestingly, we also see most of these same terms applied to the apostles and/or believers; for example, foundation (Ephesians 2:19-20; Rev 21:14), builders (1 Cor 3:10), stones (John 1:42, 1 Peter 2:5), God's building (1 Cor 3:9), and God's temple (1 Cor 3:16, 2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:21). In 1 Timothy 3:15 the Church is called "the pillar and ground of the truth" (cf. Luke 10:16 and Matthew 18:17).
Jesus changed Simon's name to "Cephas", aka "Peter", when they first met (John 1:42), not later on when Peter made his confession of faith that Jesus was the Christ in Matthew 16:16-18. ("Cephas" is the Aramaic equivalent to "Petros" in Greek, from which we get "Peter" in English). Cephas (Aramaic) and Peter (Greek) both mean "rock."
According to Peter, all Christians are likened to "living stones" or "rocks" in scripture along with Christ, Who is the Chief Cornerstone (1 Peter 2:4-5). Jesus is referred to not only as a "rock" (1 Corinthians 10:4) or "stone" (1 Peter 2:4), but also as the "foundation" (1 Corinthians 3:11) and "chief cornerstone" (1 Peter 2:6-7) of the spiritual temple that is the Church (Ephesians 2:20-21).
It is interesting to note that just as Jesus predicted the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in Matthew 24:2 ("not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down"), that process is reversed in us (1 Cor 3:9, 16) who are living stones being built up into a spiritual temple, having been called to be members of his Church (1 Peter 2:5, Eph 2:20-21).
Hybrid Mode
