[johana]

Originally Posted by Kian

Well, I would not have objected to my mother's right to abort me.

But seriously now. The fact that my mother did not abort me does not mean that I had the right to gain sentience. I was given an opportunity, not a right.

I would point out as well that having a child is a fundamentally selfish endeavor. One does not have a child (when it is planned) for the benefit of the unborn child. People have children because they want to have a child. Or, if you're catholic, because abstinence is your only other moral option. If it is unplanned, it is even more selfish. You're having a child with no thought of the child at all, you're having a child because you wanted to have sex (or express your love for your significant other, depending how much thought goes into the act).

So when a pregnancy is carried to term, it was not because the child had a right to be born. It was because the mother wanted to have a child.

This is clearly written by someone who has no children.

Trying to sum up the motivations of every parent in a single sentence is never going to lend you any credibility.

I had no desire to have children ever when I fell pregnant with my daughter accidentally at 19. My choosing to have her wasn't borne of any biological imperative or selfishness. It was an act of self-sacrifice. An act of giving of myself so that she might live.

I'd suggest that anyone who is driven by self-interest to have children take another look at the task that lies ahead. Once you have a child, there is never another moment that is yours alone. There is no room for selfishness.

I normally like reading your posts but you're actually coming pretty close here to the philosophy of those nutty radical feminists. Ima sorta waiting for you to say that all male-female sex is rape and the only path to liberation is lesbianism...

Do you really believe that the only way to deal with a pregnancy without selfishness would be abortion?

[Kian]

Originally Posted by johana

This is clearly written by someone who has no children.

True, my view is rather limited.

Trying to sum up the motivations of every parent in a single sentence is never going to lend you any credibility.

I had no desire to have children ever when I fell pregnant with my daughter accidentally at 19. My choosing to have her wasn't borne of any biological imperative or selfishness. It was an act of self-sacrifice. An act of giving of myself so that she might live.

I didn't mean to sum up all motivations in a single sentence. I may have gone a bit overboard. I suppose in certain scenarios, such as you provide, the act is not selfish.

I do try to avoid absolute statements for this very reason, but I sometimes mess up.

I'd suggest that anyone who is driven by self-interest to have children take another look at the task that lies ahead. Once you have a child, there is never another moment that is yours alone. There is no room for selfishness.

As I tried to point out later, I don't hold that having children or being selfish are in any way bad. If you are planning to have a child, it's hard to argue that it's for the benefit of the child. I suppose arguments could be made for how it benefits others, but those tend to be more contrived than the simple reason that the couple wants a child, which will be true for the general case.

I normally like reading your posts but you're actually coming pretty close here to the philosophy of those nutty radical feminists. Ima sorta waiting for you to say that all male-female sex is rape and the only path to liberation is lesbianism...

Thanks. For the first part, anyways.

Seeing as I'm male, I'd hope to steer clear from nutty radical feminism. I'm kind of attached to all my body-parts. I do support lesbianism, but only when both women are hot.

Do you really believe that the only way to deal with a pregnancy without selfishness would be abortion?

Nah, the abortion is selfish too. Escaping selfishness is really pretty hard. And doesn't make much sense either.

Just so we're on the same page, I don't think of abortion as a good thing, or even an easy way out. I would avoid it, and would not want to see any friend of mine go through it. What I defend is the right of other people to make their own choices, whether I agree, disagree, respect or not those choices and their motivations. People have a right to ruin their lives, so long as in doing so they don't make a mess of mine. I'd advice against it, and try to help those that might feel like they have no choice with support and education, but ultimately the choice belongs to the individual persons, not me or the government.

[Stripe]

Canadian law