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Yup. And I included a special emphasis (!!) Just wanted to make sure no one assumed this was just a Reformed view alone. Even most Arminians believe the same.
Quote:
"The majority of modern evangelical scholars prefer the dichotomous view of the human person . . . That is, . . . no real ontological distinction between soul and spirit."
- R.E. Olson, The Westminster Handbook to Evangelical Theology, p. 205.
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
January 30th, 2011, 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steko
Isa 6:5 And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
Who did Isaiah see?
Both, Father and Son. When you see Jesus, you have seen the Father.
..."the Only God Who is at the Father's right side...has made Him known"
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
January 30th, 2011, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyArnold
Moses invented the trinity?
Do you think that to pass on a revelation is to invent that revelation?
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
God is one (Deut 6:4). One what. Three whos (Mt 3:16,17; 28:19; Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:3-6; 2 Co 13:14; Eph 4:4-6; 1Pe 1:2; Jude 1:20,21; Re 1:4,5, Ex 20:2; Jn 20:28; Ac 5:3,4).
Yup. And I included a special emphasis (!!) Just wanted to make sure no one assumed this was just a Reformed view alone. Even Arminians most believe the same.
- R.E. Olson, The Westminster Handbook to Evangelical Theology, p. 205.
Well, I think it is respectable that you would include an Arminian in a recommendation list. Calvinists should be more like you...
THE FACTS Freed to believe by God's grace Atonement for all Conditional election Total depravity Security in Christ
God is one (Deut 6:4). One what. Three whos (Mt 3:16,17; 28:19; Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:3-6; 2 Co 13:14; Eph 4:4-6; 1Pe 1:2; Jude 1:20,21; Re 1:4,5, Ex 20:2; Jn 20:28; Ac 5:3,4).
God is one (what; nature), but three in another sense (who; personal distinctions).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
[Nature of God] Amen to everything except the impeccability of Christ debate. I believe sin is moral, not metaphysical. The bottom line is that we agree about the trinity, Deity of Christ, sinlessness of Christ (but differ as to why He is sinless), etc.
Talk about taste of my own medicine (20Q).
Why is Jesus sinless? Did he inherit a sin nature? If so, why? If not, why not?
That's an excellent question. The answer depends upon what was lost in Eden. Perhaps the best way to begin the answer is to first ask you why you believe it needed to be God on the cross?
What happened in Eden was a separation in communications and obedience between God and man. God sent them out of the Garden to prevent them from having continued access to the tree of life and thus making sin permanent with man. It tells us that explicitly in Genesis 3:22. Without access to the tree of life, death was inevitable. So the plan of salvation (or redemption as you put it), is a plan that would restore what was broken. Make sense?
How would God dying on the cross restore obedience between God and men?
Jesus did not suffer and die to restore obedience
He did it to pay the penalty for our sins
and
only God can do that
Why is Jesus sinless? Did he inherit a sin nature? If so, why? If not, why not?
None of us inherit a sin nature. A sin nature forms as we sin (moral/volitional). It is not genetic, innate (metaphysical).
The virgin conception allows God to become man/flesh in Christ. It is not why Jesus is sinless (sin is not passed on in the blood or sperm-Transcudician error).
Jesus is sinless because He did not sin. He will never sin. He is not a sinner because He is human or has flesh. He is not sinless because of the virgin conception. He is sinless because He never sinned (duh).
You are confusing morals and metaphysics and wrongly assuming that the Augustinian tradition of 'original sin' is biblical.
Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.
The bottom line we need to strongly affirm is that Jesus alone is the sinless Savior and that we are universally condemned sinners who need Him because we cannot save ourselves. Amen.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
What part of creation was not corrupted by Adam's sin? Ro 8:21.
Could he have sinned?
It is moot/theoretical whether Jesus could have sinned or not since He never did and never will (as to impeccability of Christ, I believe He could have, but did not...don't confuse being/stuff with morals/volition).
The Fall led to physical depravity (death, etc.). It affected all of creation, including us. This aspect is physical/genetic.
Only our personal choices/fall can lead to moral depravity. Moral depravity also affects all of us, except Christ, but it is based on becoming a sinner because we all sin, not because our parents had sex and conceived us.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Slogan/motto:
In your patience possess ye your souls.
Reputation:
January 31st, 2011, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom
Jesus did not suffer and die to restore obedience
He did it to pay the penalty for our sins
and
only God can do that
Okay that's the soundbite answer. Now please elaborate so I'm sure I understand what you're saying. What is the penalty for our sins that he paid the price for? What was that price? And why do you think only God can do that? Please answer these with biblical citations if possible. Thank you.
Slogan/motto:
In your patience possess ye your souls.
Reputation:
January 31st, 2011, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
None of us inherit a sin nature. A sin nature forms as we sin (moral/volitional). It is not genetic, innate (metaphysical).
The virgin conception allows God to become man/flesh in Christ. It is not why Jesus is sinless (sin is not passed on in the blood or sperm-Transcudician error).
Jesus is sinless because He did not sin. He will never sin. He is not a sinner because He is human or has flesh. He is not sinless because of the virgin conception. He is sinless because He never sinned (duh).
You are confusing morals and metaphysics and wrongly assuming that the Augustinian tradition of 'original sin' is biblical.
Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.
The bottom line we need to strongly affirm is that Jesus alone is the sinless Savior and that we are universally condemned sinners who need Him because we cannot save ourselves. Amen.
I actually agree with Godrulz on part of this (amazing!). LOL. He is absolutely right that sin is not an inherited thing, it's a personal choice we all make. The Bible is explicit that we don't pay for the sins of others in this sense (although certainly we suffer due to other's sin in another sense. For instance if a mother is doing drugs while pregnant, the child can be born deformed). See Deut 24:16 for example.
Godrulz also wrote: Jesus is sinless because He did not sin. He will never sin. He is not a sinner because He is human or has flesh. He is not sinless because of the virgin conception. He is sinless because He never sinned (duh).
He is exactly right on this as well. So I am at a loss as to how he then concludes that, "The virgin conception allows God to become man/flesh in Christ."
People do not understand where these doctrines and beliefs come from. They are all interconnected and cannot be separated and still make sense. Many non-Catholics have abandoned various Catholic doctrines yet retained others. What they don't appreciate, is that one doctrine flowed from another. They can't be parted and still have a coherent overall belief system. I have to laugh that so many non-Catholic "scholars" and teachers reject the position and power of the Pope, yet they accept some of the doctrines that were brought into the church by the decree of Popes! Doesn't make alot of sense to me.
I wrote a book on all this called "Consistent Theology: Starting from Scriptural Scratch." That's what we all need to do. Start at the beginning and come up with a consistent theology. It doesn't have to be the same as mine, but it should at least be consistent with itself (and hopefully have reasonable Scriptural foundation). Not much of that out there in Christendom these days, sadly.
What's new? 
~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.
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