ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
i believe in the golden rule as a guide for living -
taught in one form or another by all the major
religions
i believe that prior to the big bang (the point in
time that no scientist has any idea about) that the
creator started it all
i believe deism deals with the cause and effect
question of where did the universe come from w/o the
parochial limitations associated with any and all
religions
i believe that the creation is the bible of the deist.
he there reads, in the handwriting of the creator
himself, the certainty of his existence and the
immutability of his power, and all other bibles and
testaments are to him forgeries or at best terribly
flawed
i believe when it comes to deism vs revealed religion
- i would rather live with a few unanswered questions
then with non-credible answers
from my perspective, as i analyze this existence,
mindful of scientific and human limitations - i’m
holding to the only position that I can adhere to with
intellectual integrity.
when it comes to deism - i'm not inflexibly
dogmatic and i'm not even
a pure deist but that is the position that comes
closest to my views on the matter.
when it comes to atheism, agnosticism or christian
theism - i can’t adhere to any of those positions with
conviction. that’s me, but, for the most part, i’m not
telling anyone else what to believe.
now, that doesn’t stop me from challenging other
people’s beliefs or asking them to challenge mine. i
think everyone should adhere to their beliefs with
conviction (not mindless conformity) and also i will
vigorously challenge beliefs that conflict with the
golden rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123
1) the universe starts as a pure energy concentrated in an infinitely dense hot point.
2) a rapid inflation occurs, with the universe expanding in a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second from a negligible size to about the diameter of a basketball.
3) after 1 billionth of a billionth of a second the universe is now a "soup" of particles in balance with energy (photos). particles and antiparticulars form for short periods from this energy and then annihilate back to energy.
4) after 1 billionth of a second quarks and antiquarks undergo a final annihilation. this leaves some free quarkes, which soon join to make protons and neutrons. by now the universe is bigger than our present solar system.
5) after 1 second electrons and their antiparticles, positrons, undergo a final annihilation, but some free electrons remain.
6) about three minutes after it began, the universe is thousands of times bigger than our present solar system. it contains protons, neutrons, electrons, and photons (energy).
that's enough for now - i'm going to take a rest from typing.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
February 21st, 2011, 04:19 PM
Well, let's see what God says about it...
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. [2] And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
Nope. No male or female there. As you see, Jesus wasn't taking Genesis literally.
You are ignoring the evidence from the Bible below for a young earth creation. What you are doing is wanting to be accepted as reasonable, intelligent, educated and an intellectual by the mainstream scientific community and by atheists.
What I am doing is wanting to be reasonable and rational, taking into account all the evidence and making a balanced judgement. I am always trying to justify my belief to myself, let alone to others, as I refuse to accept second best explanations and biased suppositions. What YECers are often doing is looking for every possible way to prove evolution is incorrect. The biased agenda leads of necessity to many enormous gaffs and they have to dig around themselves further and further into the realms of the absurd to counter the weight of evidence against them.
Quote:
But you forget that the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.
This is a great passage for justifying every rash and biased view held by YECers and every piece of evidence against their beliefs. If you can't get that one in its proper context, (which is fairly obvious) then it doesn't say too much about your interpretation of Genesis, does it?
Quote:
1) Before the ToE most everyone accepted that the Bible referred to a young earth creation. What changed? The Bible didn’t. What changed was when the ToE came about, it needed an old earth. So now all evidence is interpreted as an old earth and mainstream science must accept that if evolution is true.
Before the TOE, most people conflated the scientific with the spiritual. There was no distinction. There was only ever one explanation and Genesis was it. To say that prior to the TOE, everyone was YEC cannot be true because YEC only exists in contradistinction to the TOE.
Quote:
2) Genesis reads as a narrative.
I've written elsewhere how the first several chapters could be interpreted in an ancient literary form and culture. And anyway, the Iliad reads as a narrative as well and so does Enuma Elish but no one would say they are intended to be historical accounts.
Quote:
3) Exodus 20 tells us to work six days and rest on the seventh just like God did when he made the heavens and the earth. Now is God telling us to work millions of years and then rest millions of years? Exodus 20:8-11
Genesis 1 is the justification for a later command to honour the Sabbath. This doesn't mean there has to be an exact correlation. But the issue is redundant anyway, as I have explained elsewhere.
Quote:
4) Jesus said that it is written that God made them male and female from the beginning. When was the beginning, why in Genesis of course. That is not evolution, that is creation and at the beginning there were male and female humans. Matthew 19:4
You could equally argue that evolution is how God made them male and female in the beginning. You need to come up with an argument that necessarily differentiates between YEC and evolution.
By the way, I don't particularly support the TOE. I have better things to do. And I can see why some Christians believe in YEC. But I always feel they are badly misguided.
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
Slogan/motto:
A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.
- C. S. Lewis
Reputation:
February 21st, 2011, 06:09 PM
Let us all make one thing very clear.
If I say I believe that the Earth is 5.8 Billion years Old (As Genesis 1:1-2 would allow),
No one, should assert that I must also be an evolutionist. That would be quite the assumptive jump to make.
All I know is, the Earth had to be here for a long time before any form of life was ready to set foot upon it. "And the Earth was empty and without form"
Can any YEC explain to me exactly how old the Earth was as it was declared as such?
And none of that "change in radioactive decay rates" and "change in continental drift" stuff.
There's a reason why the universe MUST be so large, so old, and so relatively dense with a delicate balance of bright matter and dark matter, and why we are here in this exact point in time of the universe's age.
Oh, and none of that "Speed of light must have been much faster in the past than it is now" stuff. Simply unacceptable.
Last edited by Meatball; February 28th, 2011 at 11:15 PM.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
February 21st, 2011, 06:19 PM
In fact, the geologists admitted that the world was very old, decades before Darwin wrote his book. In 1825, Adam Sedgwick, by then the greatest living geologist, admitted that he had been wrong, and the geological record was not caused by a great flood.
All I know is, the Earth had to be here for a long time before any form of life was ready to set foot upon it.
How do you know that?
Quote:
Can any YEC explain to me exactly how old the Earth was as it was declared as such?
The bible says it was created on the first of six days about 6,000 years ago.
Quote:
Any none of that "change in radioactive decay rates" and "change in continental drift" stuff.
Why not?
Quote:
There's a reason why the universe MUST be so large, so old, and so relatively dense with a delicate balance of bright matter and dark matter, and why we are here in this exact point in time of the universe's age.
What is that reason?
Quote:
Oh, and none of that "Speed of light must have been much faster in the past than it is now" stuff. Simply unacceptable.
All I know is, the Earth had
to be here for a long time
before any form of life was
ready to set foot upon it.
"And the Earth was empty
and without form"
Can any YEC explain to me
exactly how old the Earth
was as it was declared as
such?
Any none of that "change in
radioactive decay rates" and
"change in continental drift"
stuff.
There's a reason why the
universe MUST be so large,
so old, and so relatively
dense with a delicate
balance of bright matter
and dark matter, and why
we are here in this exact
point in time of the
universe's age.
Oh, and none of that "Speed
of light must have been
much faster in the past
than it is now" stuff. Simply
unacceptable.------Do you want to reason or not with us YEC you jackass? You make bald declarations as fact then dare us to prove you wrong then have the nerve to say dont tell me this or that. What the hell do you want? I will disCuss any point you want but dont dam tell me what i can or cannot say.
Well, let's see what God
says about it...
Genesis 1:1 In the
beginning God created
heaven, and earth. [2] And
the earth was void and
empty, and darkness was
upon the face of the deep;
and the spirit of God moved
over the waters.
Nope. No male or female
there. As you see, Jesus
wasn't taking Genesis
literally.-----Would you please break this argument down for non catholic brainwashed folks barbarian. It does not make a lick of sense.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2011, 06:08 AM
Your argument seems to be that Jesus said in the beginning there was male and female, and that this was from the beginning of creation, not from the beginning of the human race.
But Genesis clearly shows what was there in the Beginning, and neither male nor female were there.
Your argument seems to be
that Jesus said in the
beginning there was male
and female, and that this
was from the beginning of
creation, not from the
beginning of the human
race.
But Genesis clearly shows
what was there in the
Beginning, and neither
male nor female were there.------You are contorting things all out of proportion and mistating my argument and making false support for your argument by either not defining your terms or doing a bait and switch on the meanings of phrases you previously used. What do you mean by the following phrases?------- 1. in the beginning. 2. the beginning. 3. the beginning of creation.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2011, 03:43 PM
Quote:
You are contorting things all out of proportion and mistating my argument and making false support for your argument by either not defining your terms or doing a bait and switch on the meanings of phrases you previously used.
I'm just pointing out what God says. You'll have to take it up with Him.
Quote:
What do you mean by the following phrases?------- 1. in the beginning.
Depends on the context. In the case of Genesis 1, it means at the beginning of creation.
Quote:
2. the beginning.
Depends on the context. In the case of Matthew 19:4, it means from the beginning of the human race.
Slogan/motto:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2011, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball
Let us all make one thing very clear.
If I say I believe that the Earth is 5.8 Billion years Old (As Genesis 1:1-2 would allow),
No one, should assert that I must also be an evolutionist. That would be quite the assumptive jump to make.
All I know is, the Earth had to be here for a long time before any form of life was ready to set foot upon it. "And the Earth was empty and without form"
Can any YEC explain to me exactly how old the Earth was as it was declared as such?
Any none of that "change in radioactive decay rates" and "change in continental drift" stuff.
There's a reason why the universe MUST be so large, so old, and so relatively dense with a delicate balance of bright matter and dark matter, and why we are here in this exact point in time of the universe's age.
Oh, and none of that "Speed of light must have been much faster in the past than it is now" stuff. Simply unacceptable.
The decay rates are calibrated assuming billions of years. When in fact we don't know what rocks looked like at the beginning, or how many daughter isotopes there were in them when created. In fact there was a global flood that the calibration doesn't take into account. We don't know how an ice age affects the decay rates. Scientist don't know, but they assume everything that the Bible says didn't happen.
Linear Mode
