toldailytopic: Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?
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There you go with the early church fathers again. Are you able to quote any of them? John and Paul believed in the Trinity, as did James and Peter.
Simple asserting that the disciples/apostles believed the trinity does not make it so. To the contrary, nothing in scripture merits such a conclusion.
And yes, I can quote the early church fathers - as I have plenty in the past. I don't feel like going through huge volumes at the moment to find the quotes though. Besides, as I have found from quoting them in the past, my quoting them would be meaningless unless you were to actually go and study them for yourself. There are lots of interesting quotes - but you will simply disregard them unless you yourself go through the effort to study the quotes in context. And believe me, its not small project to read through all the works of the early church fathers.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
One cannot trust a counterfeit Christ or false gospel and hope to be a biblical, true Christian. Using csu logic, pseudo-Christian cults are equally valid with biblical Christianity despite mutually exclusive, diametrically opposing views on essential truth relating to God/gospel. Paul said a denial of the physical resurrection of Christ is grounds for being outside Christ. One cannot trust the Muslim 'Christ' and call themselves a Christian.
Until csu realizes that a counterfeit coin is not as valid as a genuine one, he will remain lost and misleading.
One cannot trust a counterfeit Christ or false gospel and hope to be a biblical, true Christian. Using csu logic, pseudo-Christian cults are equally valid with biblical Christianity despite mutually exclusive, diametrically opposing views on essential truth relating to God/gospel. Paul said a denial of the physical resurrection of Christ is grounds for being outside Christ. One cannot trust the Muslim 'Christ' and call themselves a Christian.
Until csu realizes that a counterfeit coin is not as valid as a genuine one, he will remain lost and misleading.
Your not using my logic, though you always like to insist on it. I never said that a counter-feit Christ was valid. For example: the moonies - they follow a false Christ. Likewise Mormons follow a false prophet(s). I would never go to one of these churches or accept their beliefs to be preached in a church that I attended.
You are confusing matters - for I am not proposing that different Christs are equally valid. Rather, we are both pointing to the same historical Christ through the same scriptures. I don't hold that a "counterfeit coin" is as valid as a genuine one - rather we are looking at the same 'coin' from different perspectives. The difference is some of our understanding in how he relates to God Almighty. I argue that we don't have to have a perfect or complete understanding of him - in fact, such a thing is beyond our grasp. There are some basic beliefs which are required to be a Christian, but the Trinity is not one of them (nor is it basic).
Tell me godrulz - of what use is it to assent to a doctrine that escapes your understanding? If it was a fundamental doctrine that "lasjdsajdjsaglk;jsadlkgjsa" was true - would you assent to it and defend it even though it is meaningless to you? For, regardless of whether or not you think you understand it, this is the case for the vast majority who assent to the trinity. In fact, most trinitarians are unwittingly modalists (regardless of whether it is more biblical, it actually makes sense and so is a natural position for uneducated "trinitarians").
Further, godrulz, I do not believe that you believe that one must believe exactly as you do - even about God and Christ - to be Christian. You yourself have held that a modalist might still be saved and instead place emphasis on Christ's deity. So tell me - as a Protestant Christian - what scripture reveals that Christ's deity is a salvific matter? Christ's resurrection is important because it foreshadows our own ressurection - if he wasn't ressurected then what hope is there for us? But of what import is Christ's deity? When confronted by the Jews over his potentially claiming himself to be God, he asserted that while scripture called them gods he only claimed to be the Son of God.
You, like so many, have allowed yourself to be indoctrinated and ignore the clear lack of biblical support for your position - despite the fact that you claim to be a Protestant Christian. So long as you continue to blindly follow your churches doctrine the longer you serve only to seperate the body of Christ over meaningless doctrine and to drive away potential converts with nonsense.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
If a person believes God, then they believe all of what he has to say, not just pieces of it. If you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, as all believers are, the truth will come out. Not falsehoods about God.
So when somebody says Jesus isn't God, the earth wasn't made in 6 days, and is billions of years old, you can earn and lose salvation, etc etc....or anything else, that is evidence of a condition. Those things are not the gospel, but it is evidence that tells me whether or not they believe God.
If a person believes God, then they believe all of what he has to say, not just pieces of it. If you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, as all believers are, the truth will come out. Not falsehoods about God.
So when somebody says Jesus isn't God, the earth wasn't made in 6 days, and is billions of years old, you can earn and lose salvation, etc etc....or anything else, that is evidence of a condition. Those things are not the gospel, but it is evidence that tells me whether or not they believe God.
That whole "if you are a TRUE believer then you will believe just like me" mentality is old nonsensical rhetoric. The fact is that it is biblical for people to be at different spiritual levels of understanding. Even assuming that your position on everything was 100% right (highly doubtful) - it would be unbiblical to assert that everyone should understand things as you do or else they aren't true believers. This gradation of spiritual growth is demonstrated in scripture via the analogy between spiritual babes drinking milk and not being ready for meat.
If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.
believe it!
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