Distinguishing the children of God from the children of the devil
Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
Distinguishing the children of God from the children of the devil -
May 26th, 2011, 04:21 PM
Luke 6:43-44 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
The children of God (1Jo 3:1) have hope (1Jo 3:3), remain in Christ (1Jo 3:6), practice righteousness (1Jo 3:7), do not sin (1Jo 3:9), and love the brethren (1Jo 3:11, 14).
The children of the devil sin (1Jo 3:8; 1Jo 3:4), do not practice righteousness, do not love their brother (1Jo 3:10), hate their brothers (1Jo 3:12, 15), and are murderers (1Jo 3:15).
Slogan/motto:
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" Isaiah 1:18
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Can someone hold these things as general principles, and not be guilty of licentiousness? Does a single act condemn a Christian?
James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C.
Does a single act condemn a Christian?
Usually serious sin does not "happen suddenly", but is a choice of progressively evil choices over time.
It is God's will to not draw too distinct a line in the sand, that is, we do not know exactly if we are "abiding in Christ" or not if we are choosing to behave in an evil way, a turning toward that which we know to be displeasing to God.
The best description of the progressive nature of willful grave sin:
James 1:15
It takes time and persistance in evil for sin to become "full grown" and so end in "death", which is the exile of the Spirit from our soul and thereby loss of fellowship with the Father and one another.
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
Slogan/motto:
"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."-1 Cor. 10:31 KJV
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elohiym
Luke 6:43-44 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
The children of God (1Jo 3:1) have hope (1Jo 3:3), remain in Christ (1Jo 3:6), practice righteousness (1Jo 3:7), do not sin (1Jo 3:9), and love the brethren (1Jo 3:11, 14).
The children of the devil sin (1Jo 3:8; 1Jo 3:4), do not practice righteousness, do not love their brother (1Jo 3:10), hate their brothers (1Jo 3:12, 15), and are murderers (1Jo 3:15).
"The children of God... practice righteousness (1Jo 3:7), do not sin (1Jo 3:9), and love the brethren (1Jo 3:11, 14)."-Elo
1. Any wiggle room here on this "practice righteousness?"
2. Any wiggle room here on this "do not sin?"
3. How much lack of "love the brethren" disqualifies me from being a child of God? Any wiggle room there?
Slogan/motto:
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" Isaiah 1:18
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila B
Usually serious sin does not "happen suddenly", but is a choice of progressively evil choices over time.
It is God's will to not draw too distinct a line in the sand, that is, we do not know exactly if we are "abiding in Christ" or not if we are choosing to behave in an evil way, a turning toward that which we know to be displeasing to God.
The best description of the progressive nature of willful grave sin:
James 1:15
It takes time and persistance in evil for sin to become "full grown" and so end in "death", which is the exile of the Spirit from our soul and thereby loss of fellowship with the Father and one another.
I don't agree that a Christian can spiritually die, but as for those who do believe such, your post seems to be on the spot - nice answer
It seems to me God would not let the sin of a Christian become full-grown. I will ask you then, does the advice from Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5, "For I verily... have judged already... concerning him that hath so done this deed... to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," serve a redemptive purpose or a condemning purpose? Why did he think such a thing would save the man's spirit? Likewise in 1 Timothy 1:20, "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Why did he say they would learn not to blaspheme?
James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Last edited by Mike C.; May 26th, 2011 at 06:45 PM.
Reason: Added color
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by john w
Uh, oh...I had an impure thought about a woman this year-I sinned. That explains why she said to me, "You devil, you..."
Can you show me the law that condemned your thought?
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C.
It seems to me God would not let the sin of a Christian become full-grown.
I would say that there are examples of Divine intervention. For example, Ananias and Saphira... they died from direct action from heaven. since they did not have the opportunity to repent, we might assume their "stripes" (purgatory) will be fewer than one who had the opportunity to repent and refused, thereby risking salvation.
Quote:
I will ask you then, does the advice from Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5, "For I verily... have judged already... concerning him that hath so done this deed... to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," serve a redemptive purpose or a condemning purpose?
Obviously correctional so as to bring him to repentance. I would guess that "to turn him over to satan" would mean expulsion from the community until he repented of the sinful behavior and made "deeds befitting repentance" such as oral confession before the whole community. II Cor 7:10
Quote:
Why did he think such a thing would save the man's spirit?
If the deed was "death bringing" which it sure sounds like it was, then the return of the holy Spirit to the man's soul is the point. This would be to "save the man's spirit" by uniting it again with the holy Spirit taht had been inexile by the grave sin.
Quote:
Likewise in 1 Timothy 1:20, "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Why did he say they would learn not to blaspheme?
same as above
To "deliver unto satan" might be an exclusion from the sacraments, the Table of the Lord, the breaking of bread and the prayers and community fellowship.
Repentance restores the man's body to communion with the family below (the church militant) and the man's spirit with the Holy Spirit.
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elohiym
Can you show me the law that condemned your thought?
The law of conscience, the heart of flesh which is the inner man...
and you want him to show that to you?
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
Slogan/motto:
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" Isaiah 1:18
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila B
If the deed was "death bringing" which it sure sounds like it was, then the return of the holy Spirit to the man's soul is the point. This would be to "save the man's spirit" by uniting it again with the holy Spirit taht had been inexile by the grave sin.
...
same as above
To "deliver unto satan" might be an exclusion from the sacraments, the Table of the Lord, the breaking of bread and the prayers and community fellowship.
Repentance restores the man's body to communion with the family below (the church militant) and the man's spirit with the Holy Spirit.
Two questions:
What if the men had died while they were exiled? Given that possibility, can it ever be responsible to deliver one to Satan?
If the men were in grave sin, what would draw them back to Christ, if they had not the Holy Spirit?
James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila B
The law of conscience, the heart of flesh which is the inner man...
and you want him to show that to you?
Never heard of the law of conscience. Please show me from the Bible.
Many of the children of the devil, resemble the children of God in lifestyle, thats what I get from the parable of the tares and the wheat Matt 13:
24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
May 26th, 2011, 09:43 PM
Romans 2:15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
I don't agree that a Christian can spiritually die, but as for those who do believe such, your post seems to be on the spot - nice answer
It seems to me God would not let the sin of a Christian become full-grown. I will ask you then, does the advice from Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5, "For I verily... have judged already... concerning him that hath so done this deed... to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," serve a redemptive purpose or a condemning purpose? Why did he think such a thing would save the man's spirit? Likewise in 1 Timothy 1:20, "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Why did he say they would learn not to blaspheme?
In my opinion, this sin is in reference to making void the gospel..by accepting another. This is the ONLY sin that will get one cut off.
..which is why we are warned over and over about not doing it...and, I agree a christian cannot spiritually die, although those whom do go astray for another gospel are cut off for a time....by quenching the spirit. When this occurs, God hands them over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that they can learn not to blaspheme God's only gospel.
He does not know to correct His own....that is how I view it.
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