Why Catholics, Calvinist, Religionist, are NOT Christians
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven
Is a Catholic or Calvinist who who embraces Romans 10:9-10 saved or not saved. Why?
Is a non-Catholic who embraces Acts 2:38 saved or not saved. Why?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Is a non-Catholic who embraces Acts 2:38 saved or not saved. Why?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Yes, the requirement is repentance, a change of heart and mind. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. I do not believe in the requirement of baptism for salvation as you do.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
Whatever you put ahead of the Gospel is another Gospel.
Calvinist believe that they are predestinated to be saved, that is another Gospel.
There is only one way to be saved and that is by faith in Christ. Many Calvinist believe that God makes them or causes them to have faith in Christ. This is really an insult to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. God must MAKE people to believe on his Son Jesus Christ? Kind of reminds me of a shotgun wedding.
There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.
If predestination were a valid doctrine the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing.
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
Yes, the requirement is repentance, a change of heart and mind. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. I do not believe in the requirement of baptism for salvation as you do.
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 49729
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Works, law, obedience, faith, commitment, religion, etc. Are all things that we do. None of these things save us.
Mostly true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
We are saved by the work and person of Jesus Christ, plus nothing.
Completely false.
We are saved by the judgment of Jesus, not the finished works of Jesus.
John 5:21-23
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jesus will grant or withhold God's Grace depending on the criteria God gave Him. That criteria starts with believing on Him, and finishes with whether we bring forth fruit of righteousness (works).
Philippians 1:11
Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
So, once we believe we then need to work to make sure Jesus will find us acceptable.
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
I am not posting this to make someone mad, even though it probably will.
The reason that I am posting this is to show the religious the error of their ways.
" There is a way that seems right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death," Proverbs 16:25.
Religion is what man adds to the Gospel. To add anything to the Gospel is to pervert the Gospel. It is not the Gospel plus your Catholic religion. It is not the Gospel plus predestinationism which is another Gospel. When one adds something to the Gospel like religion or works, it is an indication that one doesn't really have faith in Christ. Their religion is like a crutch or a safety net that keeps them from trusting completely in Christ.
Religion is like being in a box
When I was a young boy I would find a big box and get in it. I was very comfortable in the box. One day I thought it would be nice to have a fire in the box, that is when I set the side of my Grandfathers house on fire. He quickly put it out with the garden hose. religion is like being in a box, in the box religion you know exactly where everything is at. There is something about rules and laws, boundries, that can make one feel very secure. The thinking is that if I do my religion I will be saved because I am comfortable with it. This is the devils lie.
In the Gospel there is total and complete freedom from laws, rules, and religion.
Jesus said, "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed," John 8:36. Free from what? To be free from sin is to be free from religion. How does Jesus make us free? Jesus makes us free from laws, rules, religion, by coming into the world as our representative and advocate. By his sinless life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. He does this in our name, and on our behalf. It is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.
That was not enough. Sin must be atoned for. Because he was the "Lamb of God" without spot or wrinkle he was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14.
God sees us as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ.
If Jesus has made you perfect and complete in himself then why do you need religion? Do you need religion because you don't believe that what Christ has done was sufficient to save you? Are you uncertain that the work of Christ will save you so instead you are trusting in predestinationism just in case? Whatever that you are trusting in if it is not faith in Christ, it is sin.
Christ in heaven is our assurance that we are saved.
By faith, we who are saved believe that "Jesus is Lord." To believe that "Jesus is Lord" is to believe that Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death, and the devil. And that he now sits at the right hand of God victorious over all things, Colossians 2:15. The law has been fulfilled. Sin has been atoned for. We are perfect and complete "In Christ," Colossians 2:10.
An invitation to forsake your religion and to enter into faith.
The table is set. Everything is ready. Your place has been reserved. Come now, and enter into this new way of living by faith. The robe of righteousness that belongs to Christ can be yours, it is God's great free gift, but you must enter in and accept it and make it yours. "For by grace are you saved through faith, and not that of your religion: it is the gift of God," Ephesians 2:8.
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
I am not posting this to make someone mad, even though it probably will.
The reason that I am posting this is to show the religious the error of their ways.
" There is a way that seems right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death," Proverbs 16:25.
Religion is what man adds to the Gospel. To add anything to the Gospel is to pervert the Gospel. It is not the Gospel plus your Catholic religion. It is not the Gospel plus predestinationism which is another Gospel. When one adds something to the Gospel like religion or works, it is an indication that one doesn't really have faith in Christ. Their religion is like a crutch or a safety net that keeps them from trusting completely in Christ.
Religion is like being in a box
When I was a young boy I would find a big box and get in it. I was very comfortable in the box. One day I thought it would be nice to have a fire in the box, that is when I set the side of my Grandfathers house on fire. He quickly put it out with the garden hose. religion is like being in a box, in the box religion you know exactly where everything is at. There is something about rules and laws, boundries, that can make one feel very secure. The thinking is that if I do my religion I will be saved because I am comfortable with it. This is the devils lie.
In the Gospel there is total and complete freedom from laws, rules, and religion.
Jesus said, "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed," John 8:36. Free from what? To be free from sin is to be free from religion. How does Jesus make us free? Jesus makes us free from laws, rules, religion, by coming into the world as our representative and advocate. By his sinless life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. He does this in our name, and on our behalf. It is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.
That was not enough. Sin must be atoned for. Because he was the "Lamb of God" without spot or wrinkle he was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14.
God sees us as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ.
If Jesus has made you perfect and complete in himself then why do you need religion? Do you need religion because you don't believe that what Christ has done was sufficient to save you? Are you uncertain that the work of Christ will save you so instead you are trusting in predestinationism just in case? Whatever that you are trusting in if it is not faith in Christ, it is sin.
Christ in heaven is our assurance that we are saved.
By faith, we who are saved believe that "Jesus is Lord." To believe that "Jesus is Lord" is to believe that Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death, and the devil. And that he now sits at the right hand of God victorious over all things, Colossians 2:15. The law has been fulfilled. Sin has been atoned for. We are perfect and complete "In Christ," Colossians 2:10.
An invitation to forsake your religion and to enter into faith.
The table is set. Everything is ready. Your place has been reserved. Come now, and enter into this new way of living by faith. The robe of righteousness that belongs to Christ can be yours, it is God's great free gift, but you must enter in and accept it and make it yours. "For by grace are you saved through faith, and not that of your religion: it is the gift of God," Ephesians 2:8.
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken, Mr. Pate.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 06:10 PM
[quote=primbaptpoet;2955187]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
The scriptures that you listed do not support Calvinism.
There is not one scripture in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell.
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 49729
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by primbaptpoet
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primbaptpoet
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primbaptpoet
Read Ephes. 1: 4&5, Rom. 9: 10 thru 23, John 6: 44&65, Daniel 4:35, Isa. 45:6&7, Isa. 46:9 thru 11, Jere. 1:5, Isa. 49:1, Luke 1:41.These are some Biblical proofs of you being mistaken, Mr. Pate.
Just a friendly warning: You shouldn't copy and paste the same post over and over or you will get reported and could get banned for doing it.
You should also try to remember that many people have different ways of interpreting the scriptures you posted, and to them they will not lead to the same conclusion that you got from them, so a bit more explanation is helpful.
The scriptures that you listed do not support Calvinism.
There is not one scripture in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell.
Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
Slogan/motto:
When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.
Reputation:
February 8th, 2012, 07:37 PM
The idea that Catholics are not Christians is totally laughable. Catholics are the original Christians. Indeed, Catholicism was founded by Jesus Christ Himself. We are the original Church. It is easy to tell this. Just take a look at what the early Church fathers wrote. Is there doctrine not explicitly Catholic? Of course it is! Catholicism existed long before any denominations such as Lutheranism, Baptist, Methodist, and others came into existence.
February 8th, 2012, 05:09 PM
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