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saying His commandments that were spoken by His own mouth to the people are not his is the lie....
everything else you are blammerin on about is coming from that singular error.
I did not lie about that, you said it, and you've had every opportunity to retract it too, so it remains.
there is no reason to lie about God's word, certainly does the gospel and your creditability/testimony no good, if it's not for love it is for hate, plain and simple, no obscure references needed to understand that one.
I would suggest you mold that over for a bit before responding and digging your ditch any deeper.
first of all I don't make entire theologies off of one single passage in the NT., "law of faith" certainly not by twisting it and interpreting it to suite my needs.
For me things need to be confirmed by two or more witnesses, and held up to the rest of scripture, the Spirit of the Law is sufficient for that, 2 Corinthians 13:1, 1 Thessalonians 5:21.
Secondly when Moses added the precepts due to their hardness as Jesus proclaimed it was added to something that was already existing Mark 10:5, that something was the commandments of God, the Ten commandments spoken by His mouth Exodus 20:1.
You can't add something to air, to nothing, the sooner you beleive Jesus and agree with him the better off you will be.
and finally, I never said the ten commandments are the law of faith, as explained above I don't do that with singular terms in the Bible, that leads to all kinds of problems and I'm not hear to confuse people further with obscure terms.....
the gospel is simple, simple enough for a 5 year old child to understand, it doesn't need all those embellishments and traditions of men that developed over thousands of years stacked on top of it to make it so confusing people can't understand it, that's just counterproductive.
keep shinin
jerm
The ten did not exist when God said He added that which was added due to their hardness. This is why you are in error. The only law that existed was the law they broke from the BEGINNING: FAITH.
Try reading the facts:
Lev 26:13 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt so you would no longer be their slaves. I broke the yoke of slavery from your neck so you can walk with your heads held high.
God had already rescued you them from bondage. The symbolism is bondage or slaves that had to due with being a slave to 'sin'.
They forgot their resting place, and went about trying to be right witih God by the law of moses, that came 430 years later.
This is UNBELIEF.
You are going the same route they did..forgetting that it is God that redeemed us from the CURSE of the law, and it is a curse, because it DOES require perfection, and no one has ever kept it, and NO one ever will by the flesh alone. It is kept by FAITH....Abraham did NOT keep a day; called the sabbath; the sabbath as a command did not even exist in his day...He kept faith.
Stop making the word of God of none effect by claiming that the ten is the law of faith; the bible says it is NOT OF FAITH.
I speak the truth; and you can keep denying it, but those who know the truth; and have faith do not make grace void, by claiming the ten, that can only work wrath is the law of faith.
saying His commandments that were spoken by His own mouth to the people are not his is the lie....
everything else you are blammerin on about is coming from that singular error.
I did not lie about that, you said it, and you've had every opportunity to retract it too, so it remains.
there is no reason to lie about God's word, certainly does the gospel and your creditability/testimony no good, if it's not for love it is for hate, plain and simple, no obscure references needed to understand that one.
I would suggest you mold that over for a bit before responding and digging your ditch any deeper.
keep shinin
jerm
God also told Abraham to KILL Isaac, out of HIS own mouth...but, that does not equal it being HIS moral law.
It is that you are trying to equate the ten with morality, that you are in error. The ten was never a moral law, just because God spoke it.
He spoke it, to be a schoolmaster to PROVE that no one could be righteous by the works of it....like the bible DOES say...for by the works of the law shall NO flesh be justified. I think God proved HIS POINT. You can deny it all day long.
God also told Abraham to KILL Isaac, out of HIS own mouth...but, that does not equal it being HIS moral law.
It is that you are trying to equate the ten with morality, that you are in error. The ten was never a moral law, just because God spoke it.
He spoke it, to be a schoolmaster to PROVE that no one could be righteous by the works of it....like the bible DOES say...for by the works of the law shall NO flesh be justified. I think God proved HIS POINT. You can deny it all day long.
what are you blammerin on about morality and moral law?
I think you are bit too into secular terms to do the gospel any good here.
God's word is His word it will remain forever just like Israels patriarch David said, it need not involved secular concepts.....
it stands on it's own and needs no lie or anything else to prop it up, certainly not your "truth" as you call it.
Did God intend for all of the 10 Commandments to be enforced by the civil magistrate that He ordained in Romans 13?
Or were some of His commandments meant for individuals, while others were meant for the individual and governments?
you make no sense,
commandments of God shouldn't be enforced by magistrates (or forced in any way), they either are kept with Love for God by His faith through us or not kept at all, the Spirit of the Law takes care of all that, the old precepts that were added due to hardness of the hearts are passed away, Mark 10:5, Colossians 2:14, those written ordinances (like death sentence for adultery for example) are gone, the Spirit of the Law goes beyond the physical action and letter into the attitude of the mind as Jesus taught, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. it confirms God's commandments not throws out the baby with the bath water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Did God intend for all of the 10 Commandments to be enforced by the civil magistrate that He ordained in Romans 13?
Or were some of His commandments meant for individuals, while others were meant for the individual and governments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremysdemo
you make no sense,
commandments of God shouldn't be enforced by magistrates (or forced in any way), they either are kept with Love for God or not kept at all, the Spirit of the Law takes care of all that, the old precepts that were added due to hardness of the hearts are passed away, Mark 10:5, Colossians 2:14, those written ordinances (like death sentence for adultery for example) are gone.
So it was a mistake by Christianized western civilization to legislate Commandments 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, and they should all be removed from our laws?
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
Yes, you read me correctly; 5 and 9 are included in our system of laws as well as the others.
I didn't mention the 4th Commandment. Why do you think government offices are closed on Sunday?
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So it was a mistake by Christianized western civilization to legislate Commandments 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, and they should all be removed from our laws?
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
Yes, you read me correctly; 5 and 9 are included in our system of laws as well as the others.
I didn't mention the 4th Commandment. Why do you think government offices are closed on Sunday?
those are not legislated commandments they are mans laws that just happen to be similar to God's commandments due to Christian tradition.
Sunday never was the Sabbath, it begins at dusk on Friday and ends at dusk on Saturday.
People are not keeping the Sabbath holy by not working in Sunday, in fact many of them are using that day off to go out and sin.
Keeping the Sabbath Holy (or any of the other commandments) have nothing to do with western Christian civilization and their laws, they can only be done in the Spirit of the Law in the first place by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8, Jesus taught that, read his teachings and see how the Pharisees got it wrong, Matthew 12:1-8, trying to condemn people under the letter.
You are a true gentleman, and I respect you, but I feel there is a HUGE misunderstanding going on here.
The law written in stone, IS the Letter..it kills.
The law written in the SPIRIT is the law of Christ, and it does NOT have contained in it, the letter form...so, what I am saying is that when we try to claim it does, it is us that needs correction.
There is NO fourth commandment in the SPIRIT FORM.
The sabbath was a ceremonial day, pointing to the rest that christians would find in JESUS alone, the day itself, could NOT EVER give anyone rest...do you see that? If not, read heb 4.
I am not against the ten, I am saying what they were made for...NOT to learn or teach right living, but to condemn.
Break one, guilty of all...and, NO ONE has EVER kept the fourth one as it was demanded under the old covenant..some people claim they do....but, it is error, and a lie. All I am saying is that we must use the law of moses for the purpose it was given to fleshly ISRAEL, to be the schoolmaster to lead them TO Christ..once there, we are under the SPIRIT of the law, and the letter is and was left hanging on the tree, so that it could no longer condemn us.
When you say the ten are the same as the law for christians, you are placing them back under condemnation, because contained in the ten, is the fourth, and it condemns every man.
The ten was placed in the ark for that reason...the mercy seat covered the ark...the mercy seat is JESUS.
I respect you also, but I still disagree with your thoughts. Jesus did not pick and choose the laws, he said not one thing would be changed in them. They still stand. What he change was the way we are to keep the law. The Jews thought it more important to keep the letter of the law. Jesus took the law and put it in hearts. Carnal law leads to sin, it is a yoke on our shoulders, but the real law is spiritual and leads to love.
I can see you have been looking at this for sometime but you have to understand that the entire ten is perfect as it is. Nothing can take away from it. What is important is HOW we keep his law. I try to keep the law only because of my love for him who sent his son. Not because I will lose salvation if I don't. So the law is not a burden to me.
Peace to you G&p
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
those are not legislated commandments they are mans laws that just happen to be similar to God's commandments due to Christian tradition.
I'd tell you to go back to high school history class and find out what our basis for law in the US is jeremy (man just didn't think them up on his own), but that's what I'm here for.
Of course it is. Your love is not biblical love though. You seem to believe that you should not offend anyone to practice love. Most people will be offended to if they are told that they have to keep Jesus' commands to be saved.
This is superficial love that believing you should not offend people to be loving.
You will not inherit God's kingdom if you disobey His commands. Thats why it makes qualification to be saved.
It is that simple. You should come out of Calvinism mentality.
I do not need to offend folks to share with them meshak. My ways are not yours. I try to treat them equal brothers and sisters who want to learn more about their God.
I do not disobey his laws meshak, I keep and preach them as a law of love.
I am not a follower of Calvin, I follow Christ, you should try it meshak.
Fulfillment of the law is love, you do not shine with the joy of that love. Just maybe your thinking wrongly about them.
When Jesus taught them he stated that those who did not keep the laws would be least in the kingdom. That is in Matthew 5. What that is telling you meshak is that justification does not come from the law, but from faith. Faith brings works of love.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
those are not legislated commandments they are mans laws that just happen to be similar to God's commandments due to Christian tradition.
Then you still stand by your earlier statement?
"commandments of God shouldn't be enforced by magistrates (or forced in any way), they either are kept with Love for God or not kept at all, the Spirit of the Law takes care of all that."
Should we do away with what laws we have left that were established by Christian tradition: murder, stealing and contractual agreements?
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Dope smoker and attempted Presidential assassin Oscar Romero Ortega-Hernandez
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