[Untellectual]

I believe the answer to this question is yes.

I do have reasons for this.

I believe when Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, that this means He observed Torah.

I don't think He necessarily observed it the way some people think He had to in order to say that He observed it, but I do believe He observed it the way God intended it to be observed.

My intention is that these things be discussed.

Second to this, did Jesus' observance of Torah mean for us today that we should observe Torah?

A consideration is if we live in the land of Israel, and if a person is a Jew or Gentile living outside the land of Israel.

So, this might address the question of if a person is required to observe the Law of Moses because of national identity, but maybe not.

And, if we take the principle of living according to the law of the land, not living in Israel does this mean we should not obey the law of God?

We know of the law of Christ, the law of God. Do we not know of the Law of Moses, the Law of God?

We can learn from all of the Bible. Is it all applicable to us today? And, is it applicable for observation or just for instruction that we would know the truths we know in Christ?

I hope this isn't too controversial, but we shall see.

What is it about the Law of Moses that people hate so much?

What is it about Jesus Christ that makes a person want to observe God by obeying Jesus but at the same time not obey the law given by God through the prophet Moses?

[Untellectual]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[Untellectual]

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

[Untellectual]

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[Untellectual]

Romans 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

[Untellectual]

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:

1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

[Untellectual]

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

[Untellectual]

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

[Untellectual]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

How then has the law been established? Unto what end? In what manner? What is the purpose of Paul saying this at this point in his argument in this book called Romans?

[Untellectual]

I can see that there are different Greek words translated into the English as "redemption".

And then also is redemption future? A couple/few of the verses appear to give that indication. Haven't done an exhaustive work on this however.

[Untellectual]

And then (seeing two of the words that are both in past tense),

Luke 1:68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

[Nick M]

Hey obeyed it unto death.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by Nick M

Hey obeyed it unto death.

What is your verse?

Is it:

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Or maybe:

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;