toldailytopic: Is belief in the trinity necessary for salvation?
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Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
March 30th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Shelton
That's like saying, that since the atonement was accomplished 2000 years ago, no one was saved before it happened. The Creed solidified what was being taught for centuries.
Well then, you should be able to show me where someone taught it between 100 and 150 AD (prior to Justin Martyr).
Problem is, there wasn't anyone teaching trinitarianism prior to Justin Martyr, and even he wasn't exactly trinitarian.
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
March 30th, 2012, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eameece
They are all divine, and so are we. To be divine, is to be one with God. No separate-appearing individual is God. And yet, our deepest identity is God, and we and "The Father" are one. They stoned Jesus for saying that, and he replied, in effect, so are you, so why do you stone me? That is the only way to read that verse that makes any sense.
And I salute you for talking some sense to the trinitarians.
I had to read what you wrote several times, I think I agree in general with what you are saying.
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Slogan/motto:
Being led into relationships by urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within my heart, is always 'God-righteous' even if I have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Reputation:
March 31st, 2012, 01:06 AM
While there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, it is not necessary to have a belief in the trinity or even be aware of the Trinity, to be saved and/or delivered.
The Father is God. The son is Truth or the mysteries of God's kingdom also called Jesus. The Holy Ghost is the Force or Spirit of Truth, also called the Spirit of Jesus.
The Truth or the mysteries of God's kingdom came from God. This is not every thing that is God. God is a lot more. Truth is simply that which came from God which relates to this creation of which humans are a part. Therefore Truth or Jesus is our Lord (but not our God).
Truth or Jesus or the mysteries of God's kingdom is the only begotten son of God, as far as humans are concerned. This is because Truth or Jesus or the mysteries of God's kingdom is the first thing and only thing that came from God that is related to humans.
The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Truth which pervades and underlie all things in the creation and so created and now sustains the the creation. It is the urging and/or glue which keeps the creation in its life sustaining state.
Salvation and deliverance:
It is necessary to know Truth directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth through one's own heart and be led into all of one's works, by this Truth in order to be saved and delivered. One does not have to have an intellectual understating of anything in order to discern and be led into one's works, by this Spirit. All that is required is that one has faith in precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart and so be led unconditionally into one's works, by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned in this manner. This is intuited. It come to one's awareness through the faculties of one's spirit. These are intuitions. What this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do does not come to us through our natural man or carnal side. This does not come to us from physically hearing and/or physically reading the words in scriptures. This come to us through the faculties of our spirit (i.e. intuitions). (re. 1 Corinthians: 2 verse: 14).
The simple unconditional obedience to precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for say and do, is what it takes to be saved and delivered. What the Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discerned live, direct and intuitively, in real time, all the time is precisely what is God's individualized will for one, in real time, all the time.
By being led into all of one's works in real time, all the time, by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart, in real time all the time, one does the will of God.
This is described as obedience onto righteousness. Like Abraham and Rehab, when one is under this system one does not get sin even when one transgress the law. In fact when, under unconditional obedience to the mind of the Spirit as discerned in this manner, one transgress the Ten Commandments, one is glorified by God as was the case with Abraham and Rehab.
This is how to be delivered from sin. This is how to be delivered from the curse of the Ten Commandments.
Slogan/motto:
Being led into relationships by urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within my heart, is always 'God-righteous' even if I have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Reputation:
March 31st, 2012, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eameece
God can't be defined or described. Experience God for yourself.
Indeed God is not known or knowable to humans in His potential state (i.e. as Love). God is know only in His dynamic or doing state (i.e. as urgings of Love).
God is love, however humans can and will know God only by His active presence as urgings of love. That is, God is Love. However only those who have loved know God (re. 1 John: 4 verse: 8).
Urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within your heart for those specific people, things and circumstances in God's creation indicates God's precise will for you. This is how God draws you to what is right for you in accordance with His will for you.
To experience God in your life is to experience God guiding or working in or leading your life. One who is led into their works, by urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within their individual hearts, for those specific people, things and circumstances in God's creation are experiencing God (who is Love) and living the will of God (which are these urgings of love).
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Consubstantiality of Son and Spirit 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:4.
The issue is the Father is the only one that is ever termed, "The one God", or "The only God". The other use of theos is with reference to the generic communion of nature.
That does not mean that his nature is greater than all. His personhood is greater than all but not nature. The nature is the same in character with the Son and Spirit, 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:4. You don't understand the difference between person and nature and that is why you are currently a damned heretic.
Slogan/motto:
I have no political views of this world, and lean towards none that are listed. 2Co 5:17 (GW) Gal 6:15 (GW)
Reputation:
March 31st, 2012, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Shelton
That does not mean that his nature is greater than all. His personhood is greater than all but not nature. The nature is the same in character with the Son and Spirit, 1 John 5:20, Acts 5:4. You don't understand the difference between person and nature and that is why you are currently a damned heretic.
Hi Drake, what nature did the first Adam have BEFORE he rebelled against God? Was that nature also equal with God?
2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
Indeed God is not known or knowable to humans in His potential state (i.e. as Love). God is know only in His dynamic or doing state (i.e. as urgings of Love).
Is God's activity ad intra or ad extra? Is God's activity his attribute or attributes? Are there more than one activity? Is this activity necessary to God at the level of nature? If not then, if the activities are God's attributes, are you then saying that God's attributes could be different than they are?
Hi Drake, what nature did the first Adam have BEFORE he rebelled against God? Was that nature also equal with God?
The same nature as humans have now. In the genus of being Adam's nature consisted of a hypostatized rational faculty and a physical human body with all tendency toward righteousness. This original righteousness is not something essential to him but natural in the sense that it was the tendency in which man was created.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
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