Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
I believe that Rev 1:8 is NOT Jesus talking, but God.
Notice the next few verses. I heard a voice BEHIND ME...
Then Jesus come into the verse. The father is the Almighty, Jesus tells you that is father is greater than ALL.
Jesus cannot be the Almighty and have a God over him friend. Paul, Peter and all the others always refer to God the father of Jesus AND Jesus our Lord. One is God, one is Lord. I think Jesus is a highly created spiritual being. God like. Give powers no other has. Its a long story and just my theory, but thats what I see.
I totally know where you're coming from because as I said, I used to see it EXACTLY like you do for a long time. But then I just began to see too many Scriptures that spoke of Christ's Deity.
The reason I believe that Rev. 1:8 is talking about Christ is that in that verse, as well as again in three other verses He says "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev. 1:11 Rev. 21:6 Rev. 22:13
The One who is Alpha and Omega in Rev.1:8 is also called the Almighty in that verse.
Also the Bible teaches that God is Lord Rev. 21:22 Rev. 22:5 Rev. 22:6 etc
It also teaches that Jesus is Lord Acts 11:17 Acts 15:11 Rom. 1:7 Etc.
But yet Eph. 4:3-5 says that there is one Spirit, and also ONE LORD.
I believe that one Lord is God who manifest Himself in the flesh as the Son of God. Not a seperate "person" but simply a different manifestation of God 1Tim. 3:16
Col. 2:9 says that in Christ dwells ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. All of God was not in Christ as far as volume of course, but all of WHO and WHAT God is was in Christ.
God Bless
You speak as a child who already has been exposed for not being able to discern the difference between even two Greek words.
Speaking from one who quotes the Literal words of Revelation!
I'm not suprised you cant unnderstand or even believe the very first Chapter and verse of the book you so quote as your own!
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
Your so stupid in both Hebrew and Greek! You can even understand.... God's Christ (Jesus) was given a Revelation from God... to you!
Your theological spanking is complete sissy boy! Stop crying and go home!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
I totally know where you're coming from because as I said, I used to see it EXACTLY like you do for a long time. But then I just began to see too many Scriptures that spoke of Christ's Deity.
The reason I believe that Rev. 1:8 is talking about Christ is that in that verse, as well as again in three other verses He says "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev. 1:11 Rev. 21:6 Rev. 22:13
The One who is Alpha and Omega in Rev.1:8 is also called the Almighty in that verse.
Also the Bible teaches that God is Lord Rev. 21:22 Rev. 22:5 Rev. 22:6 etc
It also teaches that Jesus is Lord Acts 11:17 Acts 15:11 Rom. 1:7 Etc.
But yet Eph. 4:3-5 says that there is one Spirit, and also ONE LORD.
I believe that one Lord is God who manifest Himself in the flesh as the Son of God. Not a seperate "person" but simply a different manifestation of God 1Tim. 3:16
Col. 2:9 says that in Christ dwells ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. All of God was not in Christ as far as volume of course, but all of WHO and WHAT God is was in Christ.
God Bless
If you can not see that Jesus has a God then there is nothing I can say to get you to understand who Jesus really is. The world was made THROUGH Jesus by his father. He is a very high spiritual being. But I do not believe he is God friend. Paul says we have one God AND one Lord Jesus. God and Lord are not the same. One is the creator the other is created.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
If you can not see that Jesus has a God then there is nothing I can say to get you to understand who Jesus really is. The world was made THROUGH Jesus by his father. He is a very high spiritual being. But I do not believe he is God friend. Paul says we have one God AND one Lord Jesus. God and Lord are not the same. One is the creator the other is created.
I just finished writing a little article on spiritual blindness,
which is mentioned all through the OT and NT.
Re: your particular spiritual blindness ...
Father God created "all things" through the Word (Logos),
who became flesh in the form of a man called "Jesus" (John 1:14),
just means that Father God ordained it, planned it, etc.,
but the Word (Logos) actually did the creating.
Very high spiritual beings don't go around creating "all things".
Lucifer (Satan) was the grandest of all created beings,
but he can't create anything except hatred, chaos, spiritual blindness, etc.
Want to see the verse for that?
In the Bible, God and Lord do mean the same thing.
God in Hebrews 1:8 calls Jesus "God".
God in Hebrews 1:10 calls Jesus "Lord".
This is what we call killing two birds with one stone.
If you will not believe what the Bible clearly says,
I advise you to dump yours in the dumpster ... and walk.
BTW, Jerzy was raisin' hell elsewhere, but got dumped.
What I don't know is ... if he's in a dumpster somewhere.
Theos refers to the Trinity in this verse, as demonstrated by the subsequent greeting from Father, Son and Spirit.
Uni’s don’t study scripture….you and Gill already proved to us that you don’t even know how to use a simple Greek concordance!
We simply expected more intellect from someone who boasts to have paid $20K in taxes last year.
So your admitting that Theos does not mean Trinity in other verses? I'll leave it to your own trinitarians to spank you as they have done so in the recent past!
I don't even have to post for you to make me look smart!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
So your admitting that Theos does not mean Trinity in other verses? I'll leave it to your own trinitarians to spank you as they have done so in the recent past!
I don't even have to post for you to make me look smart!
Paul
Theos can refer to God, triune God, Jesus as God, Satan as a god, angels, men, etc. depending on context. The true God is triune, not solitary.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
I totally know where you're coming from because as I said, I used to see it EXACTLY like you do for a long time. But then I just began to see too many Scriptures that spoke of Christ's Deity.
The reason I believe that Rev. 1:8 is talking about Christ is that in that verse, as well as again in three other verses He says "I am Alpha and Omega" Rev. 1:11 Rev. 21:6 Rev. 22:13
The One who is Alpha and Omega in Rev.1:8 is also called the Almighty in that verse.
Also the Bible teaches that God is Lord Rev. 21:22 Rev. 22:5 Rev. 22:6 etc
It also teaches that Jesus is Lord Acts 11:17 Acts 15:11 Rom. 1:7 Etc.
But yet Eph. 4:3-5 says that there is one Spirit, and also ONE LORD.
I believe that one Lord is God who manifest Himself in the flesh as the Son of God. Not a seperate "person" but simply a different manifestation of God 1Tim. 3:16
Col. 2:9 says that in Christ dwells ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. All of God was not in Christ as far as volume of course, but all of WHO and WHAT God is was in Christ.
God Bless
This is good but then leans toward modalism (the opposite). Strike the balance where it needs to be without dangerous speculating. The pendulum of scripture points to one God on one side, and Son speaking with Father and Spirit on the other.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
This is good but then leans toward modalism (the opposite). Strike the balance where it needs to be without dangerous speculating. The pendulum of scripture points to one God on one side, and Son speaking with Father and Spirit on the other.
The poster is Oneness, not trinitarian.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
If you can not see that Jesus has a God then there is nothing I can say to get you to understand who Jesus really is. The world was made THROUGH Jesus by his father. He is a very high spiritual being. But I do not believe he is God friend. Paul says we have one God AND one Lord Jesus. God and Lord are not the same. One is the creator the other is created.
In Colossians, Jesus Christ is stated as being the causal agent responsible for the entire Universe…
οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα εν τοις ουρανοις και επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται
For by Him all things were created; by that in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or rulers, or magistrates, or authorities; all things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1.16)
Three separate and distinct primary prepositions are used to describe Jesus’ creative power (i.e. “en”, “dia”, & “eis”).
Three separate prepositions were used here to make it crystal clear that three separate modes of operation are in effect at the same time.
In each case, the preposition is flanked by the masculine singular, “autos”.
The first instance of “autos” is in the dative singular masculine indicating that Jesus is the object of the primary preposition, “en”, rendered as “by”.
The second instance of “autos” is in the genitive singular masculine indicating that Jesus is in direct possession of the creative act – i.e. He is in complete control of it – and is attached to the preposition “dia” rendered as, “through”.
The third instance of “autos” is in the accusative singular masculine again indicating that Jesus is the direct object of the preposition, “eis”, rendered as “for”.
Thus, from this Biblical verse alone, creation is By, Through, and For Jesus Christ all at the same time…indicating, yet, again, that He is the Triune creator God of the Universe.
Theos can refer to God, triune God, Jesus as God, Satan as a god, angels, men, etc. depending on context. The true God is triune, not solitary.
Thanks for pointing that out for Apple7 Like I said, I will leave it up to a trinitarian so show him the truth, thus my lack of a response to his post. Thanks for stepping up to correct his errors like I predicted. However, I thought you would aim your post at him not me, you know me who already agrees with you on this? (Except for thenon-biblicaltriune part)
Man you guys are so traditions of men... predictable!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
In Colossians, Jesus Christ is stated as being the causal agent responsible for the entire Universe…
οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα εν τοις ουρανοις και επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται
For by Him all things were created; by that in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or rulers, or magistrates, or authorities; all things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1.16)
Three separate and distinct primary prepositions are used to describe Jesus’ creative power (i.e. “en”, “dia”, & “eis”).
Three separate prepositions were used here to make it crystal clear that three separate modes of operation are in effect at the same time.
In each case, the preposition is flanked by the masculine singular, “autos”.
The first instance of “autos” is in the dative singular masculine indicating that Jesus is the object of the primary preposition, “en”, rendered as “by”.
The second instance of “autos” is in the genitive singular masculine indicating that Jesus is in direct possession of the creative act – i.e. He is in complete control of it – and is attached to the preposition “dia” rendered as, “through”.
The third instance of “autos” is in the accusative singular masculine again indicating that Jesus is the direct object of the preposition, “eis”, rendered as “for”.
Thus, from this Biblical verse alone, creation is By, Through, and For Jesus Christ all at the same time…indicating, yet, again, that He is the Triune creator God of the Universe.
STOP!!! NON-Genesis creation verse!
You think putting up a few Greek words makes you look cool?
If you Apple7 would actually stop reading into the text and start reading out of the text you would see this verse is not about the creation process! But about things already IN the Heavens and UPon the earth!
Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities." Not the creation as you so traditions of men suggest!
Don't you ever get tired of me spanking you in public?
I own you!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
Man you guys are so traditions of men... predictable!
Paul
Hmmm, so I'm following man....
Who are you following?
I can't believe you haven't shamed yourself off of this thread let alone this website.
What 'kind of god' are you following? He doesn't seem to be the same one I'm following.
Why would any of us listen to perverted lips for truth? Seriously?
What in your 'right' mind would make you think that any of us would listen ever ever again? You seriously lost me last month with your vulgarity. I wouldn't listen to a thing you might say forever after this, filthy mouth.
Why don't you realize your tongue has discreditted you from conversation about truth, godliness, and righteousness?
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
You think putting up a few Greek words makes you look cool?
Actually, it makes you look stupid.
You already demonstrated this earlier...remember?
Quote:
If you Apple7 would actually stop reading into the text and start reading out of the text you would see this verse is not about the creation process! But about things already IN the Heavens and UPon the earth!
[color="Blue"]Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities." Not the creation as you so traditions of men suggest!
Tell us all about the compound Hebrew nouns in Genesis and how they compare to the Greek...
to you! 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
(Except for the non-biblical triune part) 
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