[Robert Pate]

Catholics and other religious people believe that Jesus came into the world to show us the way. The teaching is that if you are a good person take the sacraments and try to obey the commandments Jesus will infuse you with his righteousness. It is then that you will become a friend of God and be justified. (Council of Trent: Canon #9.)

There is nothing in the Catholic doctrine that says..."Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins," Hebrews 9:22

The shedding of Christ blood is not important. The Catholic is not interested in the shed blood of Christ. He just wants to drink it so that he can become like Christ. As if that were possible.

Eat all of the wafers and drink all of the grape juice that you can, you will never be like Christ. The reason that you will never be like Christ is because you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God accepts the work or the obedience of sinners for their salvation. Infused righteousness does not work. A recent survey revealed that the morals of church going people verses non church going people showed only a 10% difference in their morals. If infused righteousness were true Catholics would be like Christ. It is very apparent that it doesn't work.

Christ shed his blood for us, "Much more then, being justified by his BLOOD, we shall be saved from the wrath through him," Romans 5:9. When you go into the judgment God is not going to be interested in how much grape juice you have consumed. What he will be looking for is how much of Christ's blood you have ON YOU, not in you.

When I go into the judgment God will not see me, what he will see is my advocate and savior Jesus Christ who has washed me me in his blood, Revelation 1:5.

Jesus came into the world to be the way, John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way" As our new Adam and representative he has offered to God the Father a life of total obedience to God's Holy Law, he did this in our name and on our behalf, it is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.

Because he was without sin he was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" What Catholics and other religious people are trying to attain to is already ours in Jesus Christ. We don't have to work for it. We don't have to try and deserve it. It is a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8.

[Cruciform]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Did Jesus come into the world to show us the way or to be the way?

Yes.

There is nothing in the Catholic doctrine that says..."Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins," Hebrews 9:22 The shedding of Christ blood is not important. The Catholic is not interested in the shed blood of Christ.

Oops! Try again...

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:

613 Christ's death is both the Pascal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" (Jn. 1:29; cf. 8:34-36; 1 Cor.5:7; 1 Pet. 1:19), and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26:28; cf. Ex. 24:8; Lev. 16:15-16; 1 Cor. 11:25).

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God accepts the work or the obedience of sinners for their salvation. Infused righteousness does not work.

See here, here, here, and here. End of thread...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by Cruciform

Yes.


Oops! Try again...

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:

613 Christ's death is both the Pascal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" (Jn. 1:29; cf. 8:34-36; 1 Cor.5:7; 1 Pet. 1:19), and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26:28; cf. Ex. 24:8; Lev. 16:15-16; 1 Cor. 11:25).

See here, here, here, and here. End of thread...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Why don't you admit it? you think that Jesus came to show you the way. And the way is by self righteousness.

"If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the church, BUT ONLY TO BELIEVE, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Canon #20)

There it is right in front of your religious nose. You must keep the law. You must be like Christ.

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Why don't you admit it? you think that Jesus came to show you the way. And the way is by self righteousness.

"If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the church, BUT ONLY TO BELIEVE, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Canon #20)

There it is right in front of your religious nose. You must keep the law. You must be like Christ.

He will now deny the council of trent or ignore the thread. The truth hurts.

[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by Choleric

He will now deny the council of trent or ignore the thread. The truth hurts.

Your right.

I think that he will deny God to keep his Catholic religion intact.

[Cruciform]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Why don't you admit it? you think that Jesus came to show you the way. And the way is by self righteousness.

Straw Man Fallacy. (Again. )

"If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the church, BUT ONLY TO BELIEVE, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Canon #20)

Yes, I reject the heresy of antinomianism. Here is why.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

[Cruciform]

Originally Posted by Choleric

He will now deny the council of trent or ignore the thread.

Oops! "I'll take 'Gigantic False Assumptions' for $1,000, Alex!"

(See Post #6.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

[Cruciform]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

I think that he will deny God to keep his Catholic religion intact.

I think that Pate will continue to deny God to keep his Pate-ist religion intact. (See how that works?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

[Eeset]

Acts 9:2

[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by Cruciform

I think that Pate will continue to deny God to keep his Pate-ist religion intact. (See how that works?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

No doubt about it. You are a Gospel rejector and are anti-Christ.

What you call Pateism is really Paulism. I teach and uphold the teachings of the apostle Paul.

Paul said that we are Justified by faith, without works, Galatians 3:10.

The reason that it is by faith alone is because it is by Christ alone.

Your representative, the pope, has not been accepted into heaven. He is still here on the earth with the rest of us sinners.

My representative Jesus Christ, is in heaven at the right hand of God. He claims victory over sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:14,15. Paul said that I am complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

To him that DOES NO WORK but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (me) his faith is counted for righteousness, Romans 4:5.

[Cruciform]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

No doubt about it. You are a Gospel rejector and are anti-Christ.

Already answered.

What you call Pateism is really Paulism. I teach and uphold the teachings of the apostle Paul.

Not according to the historic Christian Church during the first millennium-and-a-half of its existence.

Paul said that we are Justified by faith, without works, Galatians 3:10. The reason that it is by faith alone is because it is by Christ alone.

Try again. And again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by Cruciform

Already answered.


Not according to the historic Christian Church during the first millennium-and-a-half of its existence.


Try again. And again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You always refer me to the writings of the Catholic church.

Have you thrown your Bible in the trash?

If the Catholic church is based upon the writings of the apostles who needs the Catholic church to interpret. Lets face it, men make mistakes.

I am afraid that you see Jesus as your taskmaster and not your savior.

"If anyone says that Christ Jesus was given by God to men as a redeemer in whom to trust, and not also as a LEGISLATOR whom to obey, let him be anathema." (Council of Trent Canon #21)

By the way have you plucked out your eye yet?

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by Cruciform

Oops! "I'll take 'Gigantic False Assumptions' for $1,000, Alex!"

(See Post #6.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

The problem with you posting a post number is that I have the thread order inverted so I see the most recent post first. And when I view it on my phone, it is impossible to know what post you are referencing unless you post a link. As a matter if fact, your post where you refer me to post # 6 is post #6 on my phone.

[Gurucam]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Catholics and other religious people believe that Jesus came into the world to show us the way. The teaching is that if you are a good person take the sacraments and try to obey the commandments Jesus will infuse you with his righteousness. It is then that you will become a friend of God and be justified. (Council of Trent: Canon #9.)

There is nothing in the Catholic doctrine that says..."Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins," Hebrews 9:22

The shedding of Christ blood is not important. The Catholic is not interested in the shed blood of Christ. He just wants to drink it so that he can become like Christ. As if that were possible.

Eat all of the wafers and drink all of the grape juice that you can, you will never be like Christ. The reason that you will never be like Christ is because you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God accepts the work or the obedience of sinners for their salvation. Infused righteousness does not work. A recent survey revealed that the morals of church going people verses non church going people showed only a 10% difference in their morals. If infused righteousness were true Catholics would be like Christ. It is very apparent that it doesn't work.

Christ shed his blood for us, "Much more then, being justified by his BLOOD, we shall be saved from the wrath through him," Romans 5:9. When you go into the judgment God is not going to be interested in how much grape juice you have consumed. What he will be looking for is how much of Christ's blood you have ON YOU, not in you.

When I go into the judgment God will not see me, what he will see is my advocate and savior Jesus Christ who has washed me me in his blood, Revelation 1:5.

Jesus came into the world to be the way, John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way" As our new Adam and representative he has offered to God the Father a life of total obedience to God's Holy Law, he did this in our name and on our behalf, it is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.

Because he was without sin he was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" What Catholics and other religious people are trying to attain to is already ours in Jesus Christ. We don't have to work for it. We don't have to try and deserve it. It is a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8.

Originally Posted by chrysostom

is Jesus the only way to salvation?

we firmly believe that salvation was not possible until Jesus suffered and died on the cross
but
we are not sure you have to be aware of that

we are told that the end will not come until everyone is aware of that

Jesus is the only path to salvation and deliverance.

Jesus is the Truth, the way and the life. No one come onto God but through Him (re. John: 14 verse: 6).

The Truth is a body of knowledge which comprises the mysteries of God's kingdom. This is called Jesus.

The path to salvation is not through the physically manifested Jesus or through the physically delivered teachings of Jesus.

It is through the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth as discerned directly and intuitively within one's own heart or spirit (re. Galatians: 4 verse: 5 & 6 and 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17).

Now the Lord is that Spirit (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17) Now means currently and for the past 2000 odd years, i.e. after Jesus came to earth physically and left physically. Jesus was always here and is still here in His Spirit.

Truth/Jesus and the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus/Holy Spirit was, is and will continue to be ever present.

Fact is God sent back Jesus in His (regenerated) Spirit, after He physically left. God sent Him in His Spirit into the hearts of those under the law. God sent the regenerated Spirit of Jesus into the hearts or spirits of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6). Therefore the Lord is that Spirit. Those under the law seemed to have reject this offering from God (which leads one from 'child of the flesh' to 'child of God' status) in preference for believing what you believe . . . they stumble at that stumbling block.

Salvation and deliverance is about being led into one's works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discern within one's own heart or spirit (re. Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27 and 14).

Seek ye first the kingdom of God within (your own heart) and All things will be added. This is rooted in seeking and capturing communion with the Spirit of Jesus within your heart. Jesus is Truth and Truth will set you free. Truth come to humans only directly and intuitively from the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus within one's own heart (re. 1 Corinthians: 2 verses: 12 to 14).

This is where God sent the Spirit of Truth (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6 and John: 16 verses: 7 & 13)

This is how Jesus lived when He walked on earth in a human physical body. This is the way and the life through which one come onto God.

We must be led into all our works, in real time, all the time, by precisely what the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus/Holy Ghost has in mind for us to pray for, say and do as discerned, in real time, all the time, within our own individual hearts or spirits. This is how Jesus live when he walked on earth in a human physical body. Jesus came and demonstrated this way and this life and we are to emulate it in order to be saved and delivered, i.e. in order to be Christian (i.e. the chosen few). We do not mimic Jesus physical behavior or his physical words, for our God given mission would not be His (to each, in Christ, his own mission). We seek to be led into all of our works by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do, as discerned with our own hearts wherein God sent it.

Peter was identified to be Satan, by Jesus, when he (Peter) unwittingly tried to take Jesus off His path of always being led into All His works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for Him to do as discerned within His own heart or spirit (re. Matthews: 16 verses: 21 to 23).

Those aspiring to be Christians must not let Peter, or his descendant or anyone else, derail them from being led into all their works by unconditionally obeying precisely what this Spirit has in mind for them to pray for, say and do, as discerned within their own hearts or spirits, even if they have to transgress the Ten Commandments, as Abraham and Rehab were called to do. This is how Paul was informed and led. This is how Jesus was informed and led when he walked on earth in a human physical body. He lived by the guidance of His Spirit, i.e. the Spirit of Truth/Holy Ghost, as discerned directly and intuitively, within, in real time, all the time . . . Jesus did not let Satan/Peter derail Him and you, who aspire to be Christian, must not let Peter/Satan and their descendant derail you.

No Maths, really. Just simple and straightforward and supported unconditionally by KJV N.T. revelations about Truth.

[Gurucam]

Jesus is already here as the Head of the Body of Christ. He is already here in glory. This is His "second coming".

Our Lord now that Spirit of Jesus

He is in Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, which God sent into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God.

Jesus runs the world among authentic Christians from this position. Christians are those who have taken up this offer to the Spirit.

Christians are those who know Jesus and is led into all their works by Jesus by discerning, within our individual hearts, precisely what His Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do and being led unconditionally into our All works by this.