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  (#106) Old
Lon Lon is offline
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April 12th, 2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierac View Post






Your welcome Choleric! I'm always happy to educate you out of the ignorance of the traditions of men you quoted above! FYI, save your labeling... Show me how your traditions of men were not just spanked in public...! Use Scripture like I did! You really should read the bible before posting the stuff like... "Who is "us" and "our" if there is no trinity?"

Paul
You didn't. You cut/pasted nothing much of relevance. You are very long-winded about not a lot at all. I know in your self-congratulatory delusion you 'think' you are saying something but after wading through your muck a dozen or so times, it is my estimation you don't 'win' on here, you lose. People walk around you lest they get your mess on their shoes!





Omniscient without man's say or qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
No possible limitation other than in man's wishful finite inanity Isaiah
40:25 Joshua 24:15
Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

Is Calvinism okay? Yep

Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. *************************************

Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
   
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Krsto Krsto is offline
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April 12th, 2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
I was thinking "Ank!" or "Honk!" but used "Buzz!"

You still seem to not understand. If I am God --> no temptation.
When/if I receive a body, it desires things that I , without a body, do not.

Why it isn't not making sense to you would what? Make me wonder if you are 6 yet? I don't get it (work a little harder). Until then, let's just assume for a second that you might not have been as correct in your initial assessment as you might have hoped...
Lon - Listen to yourself for just one moment. You are saying "I (God) don't desire a thing, but my body does."

Seriously Lon? His body desired something but he (the person) didn't desire a thing?

A body does not desire anything. People desire things. The person of Christ desired all kinds of things. That's why he was tempted. Since the person of Christ was tempted and God can not be tempted the person of Christ was not God.

Get it?





Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.

Courtesy of Desert Reign
   
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Krsto Krsto is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
My jury is still out. There are verses of scripture appearing denied to me.

God alone is judge but I find it difficult to imagine one paying lip-service to a creation like himself/herself is as reverent or can be as reverent as one who believes Jesus is God▼
Turning the tables a bit, if you come to somebody worshipping who he/she believes is God, then try and dethrone Him before their eyes, what would you expect? It kind of makes sense no? Press it even further than that, we see a bit of an audacity on many many levels but the huge ones for me:

Non-trinitarians who approach trinitarian boards
1) Challenge the status-quo (are thus in the minority)
2) Because they are minority, are seen as precociously audacious interlopers
3) Tend not to have the theological degrees many of the rest of us have persued (prematurely presumptuous without sacrifice or sincerity)
4) Tend to wade in with their fists leading (already have a chip on their shoulder from every prior discussion/encounter/ostracization - offensive)
5) Have associations with cults, if not in affiliation, in retrospect (guilty by association)

Summary: Non-trinitarians are seen as minority view, ill-equipped, trouble-makers who disturb our boards for their own agenda bringing to mind offensive cults and often (nearly always) with troublesome attitudes
and devisive dispositions.

I suppose it is danged if I do/danged if I don't for you. I don't see how you can get around that. If you choose an ostracized group to believe with, you can and should expect to be treated as that particular group?

Not only that, but I remember the arian pow-wow two years ago on here where we were declared hell-bound. I do remember you taking a better stance, but it hasn't helped arians or modalists particularly on this forum.
Some sweeping generalizations here but I generally agree.

Seems like Luther was in the same boat . . .





Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007

Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.

Courtesy of Desert Reign
   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 12:33 AM

God has told us: Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God's only begotten Son. We are told if we have the Son, we have the Father also.

We are also told to have fellowship with them both:

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

To be safe, it would be best to have fellowship with them both God(Father) and His Son Jesus Christ:

The Father is God, as Jesus' taught:

John 8:42 Jesus told them, "If God were your Father, you would love me. After all, I'm here, and I came from God. I didn't come on my own. Instead, God sent me.





2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
I agree, Jesus is not God. He is God's son, just as he says.


John 3:16 KJV
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.





2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 01:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
To the Jews Jesus' claim to be the Son of God was the same as profaning God's name (John 19:7 with Leviticus 24:16).

You proceed on your FALSE notion that the terms "God" and "Son" are antithetical. If your dichotomy is correct, then when Jesus claimed to be the Son of Man He was denying that He was Man.

Son of Man = Man
Son of God = God

Think like a Jew sir!
I don't think he is thinking like a jew, but let me go to the scriptures, to see I can just refine it, a bit more:

Gen 5:3 GW
(3) When Adam was 130 years old, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, in his own image. He named him Seth.

Now what does this mean ''own likeness, in his own image'' was the ''likeness & image'' meaning character, nature, remembering Adam had fallen by this time?

All common sense tells us that Adam and Seth were two different people ''men''

And we all bear the image of the first Adam, character, nature & likeness

But this does not make all of us ADAM, now does it, (it would be ridiculous to even think that) we bear Adam's character, his nature, his likeness, even though we are MAN, we are NOT ADAM.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Jesus is the image of God, so what image, did Jesus show & display? Look at Jesus nature, character & likeness.

This does not make Jesus God, like it does not make Seth Adam: Jesus is still the Son of God, as Seth was the son of Adam. His (Jesus') nature, character and likeness etc, is in God's likeness.

That's why Jesus could say, the Father is greater than I.







2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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oatmeal oatmeal is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 04:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill White View Post
I don't think he is thinking like a jew, but let me go to the scriptures, to see I can just refine it, a bit more:

Gen 5:3 GW
(3) When Adam was 130 years old, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, in his own image. He named him Seth.

Now what does this mean ''own likeness, in his own image'' was the ''likeness & image'' meaning character, nature, remembering Adam had fallen by this time?

All common sense tells us that Adam and Seth were two different people ''men''

And we all bear the image of the first Adam, character, nature & likeness

But this does not make all of us ADAM, now does it, (it would be ridiculous to even think that) we bear Adam's character, his nature, his likeness, even though we are MAN, we are NOT ADAM.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Jesus is the image of God, so what image, did Jesus show & display? Look at Jesus nature, character & likeness.

This does not make Jesus God, like it does not make Seth Adam: Jesus is still the Son of God, as Seth was the son of Adam. His (Jesus') nature, character and likeness etc, is in God's likeness.

That's why Jesus could say, the Father is greater than I.


Scriptures teaches, reproves and corrects.

Your post shows that.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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Totton Linnet Totton Linnet is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by One In Christ View Post
I just have to say, if there was irrefutable proof in the Bible that Jesus is God, there wouldn't be threads or debates like this. Its not so clear cut.

Thats how I see it... Maybe I'm missing something. I can go by the majority rule, and say "Jesus is God.... It seems to be the status quo"... Thats a reason for Christianity in general for me... It can't be wrong... otherwise there wouldn't be so many Christians, and so much proof, (through the bible and empirical evidence).
*
What you are missing which every true believer has recieved is the direct revelation from the Father...flesh and blood does not reveal Christ's deity...scripture does.





One lavished upon in the Beloved
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603
   
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S0Z0 S0Z0 is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 06:15 AM

If you do not know that Jesus is God then you do not know Jesus.

Close thread.



   
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chrysostom chrysostom is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 06:19 AM

What if Jesus is not God?

we have not been redeemed





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 06:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
What if Jesus is not God?

we have not been redeemed
Jesus is the Son of God:

I don't think you are understanding ''spirit''

2Co 5:19 KJV
(19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God is spirit, and those that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and truth. John 4:24

''.... to wit that ''the spirit'' was IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto Himself..''

Who is doing the saving?

Who redeemed us?





2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 06:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by S0Z0 View Post
If you do not know that Jesus is God then you do not know Jesus.

Close thread.
If Jesus is God, then please tell me, who the Son of God is?

God ONLY begotten SON>

Why do you deny God's ONLY begotten Son.





2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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Angel4Truth Angel4Truth is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill White View Post
If Jesus is God, then please tell me, who the Son of God is?

God ONLY begotten SON>

Why do you deny God's ONLY begotten Son.
Does not birthright to the throne belong to the son? Its you who deny this.

Would you say the Son of a King could not Himself be king?

Did not Christ say His Father had given all things into His hand already?

Why do you deny His rule?





"Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation" - BHO

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.


   
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Gill White Gill White is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
Does not birthright to the throne belong to the son? Its you who deny this.
Show me where I denied this:

We are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ:

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Luk 1:32 KJV
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
Would you say the Son of a King could not Himself be king?
I think you know the error of your above statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
Did not Christ say His Father had given all things into His hand already?
Yes

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
Why do you deny His rule?
Nope I do not deny Christ's rule:

Isa 42:1-6 KJV
(1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
(2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
(3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
(4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
(5) Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
(6) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Luk 1:32 KJV
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

God bless you





2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
   
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Angel4Truth Angel4Truth is offline
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April 13th, 2012, 07:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill White View Post
Show me where I denied this:

We are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ:

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Luk 1:32 KJV
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Is a prince then the KING when all things have been given to Him?

I think you know the answer to that.





"Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation" - BHO

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.


   
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