Theology Online | Christian Forums & More

  
Active Threads
Social Groups
Go Back   Theology Online | Christian Forums & More > Politics, Religion, And The Rest > Religion
Reload this Page expose Calvinists
Religion Discuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  (#736) Old
beloved57 beloved57 is online now
TOL Legend
 beloved57's Avatar

 

Reputation:
beloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scale
April 13th, 2012, 10:38 PM

wc

Quote:
Of course they have their natural life through Adam.
Yes, but they were not in Adam when the Church sinned in Him !

Quote:
But the expression "in Adam" has nothing to do with the natural
Adam is also the Natural Head of the Elect 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Quote:
It refers to covenantal union ALONE just as the term "in Christ" refers ONLY to union by covenant.
I know that, and Preach That. Adam was the Natural and Federal Covenant Head of the Elect, but only the Natural head of the non elect. God as far as we can see from scripture never was in Covenant with His Angels or the Devil and his seed !

Quote:
Therefore, the non elect are NOT "in Adam" in any sense of the term the way Paul used it.
I agree that the non elect were not in view when Paul was discussing Rom 5:12ff !

In fact the non elect are never in view when scripture speaks on the Salvation Issues. Jn 3:16 is about the Elect, 2 Cor 5:19 is about the Elect, Jn 1:29 is about the Elect. However they do get their creature accountability to God's Law by their natural connection to Adam Rom 1:18-20

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 2:14-15

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law[In Covenant], do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )


Quote:
Dude the term "in Adam" as Paul employed it has nothing to do with the natural just as the term "in Christ" has nothing to do with the natural.
It does, The Elect incurred condemnation and Judgment in the Federal and Natural Head Adam, 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul here is speaking of the Elect only, however he brings out the fact that they first took on [in time] The Natural through the Headship of Adam.

If you cannot see that, you are blind to it, and I am not going to keep discussing that.

Now if you wanna discuss the things we agree on from this discussion, like how did you come to understand that Adam was only the Federal Head for the Elect, and not the non elect, I am down, but if you want to keep highlighting our disagreement on the natural thing, then I am through with you. So it is on you dude !





Rom 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#737) Old
Wile E. Coyote Wile E. Coyote is online now
TOL Subscriber
 Wile E. Coyote's Avatar

 

Reputation:
Wile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peersWile E. Coyote is well respected by his peers
April 14th, 2012, 11:20 AM

Beloved57 said:
Quote:
Now if you wanna discuss the things we agree on from this discussion, like how did you come to understand that Adam was only the Federal Head for the Elect, and not the non elect, I am down, but if you want to keep highlighting our disagreement on the natural thing, then I am through with you. So it is on you dude !
Forget the natural head thing! That's NOT what Paul is talking about in Romans 5! The term "in Christ" is NOT about the natural. Neither is the term "in Adam" about the natural. Both terms are about COVENANTAL union ONLY!



   
Reply With Quote
  (#738) Old
chrysostom chrysostom is offline
TOL Subscriber
 chrysostom's Avatar

 


Reputation:
chrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peers
chrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peerschrysostom is well respected by his peers
April 14th, 2012, 11:31 AM

I may be hard of hearing
but
I still hate it when they shout





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
Reply With Quote
  (#739) Old
beloved57 beloved57 is online now
TOL Legend
 beloved57's Avatar

 

Reputation:
beloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scale
April 14th, 2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Beloved57 said:

Forget the natural head thing! That's NOT what Paul is talking about in Romans 5! The term "in Christ" is NOT about the natural. Neither is the term "in Adam" about the natural. Both terms are about COVENANTAL union ONLY!
Thats it, no more discussion with you about this since you are one track minded, I am out !





Rom 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#740) Old
Sum1sGruj Sum1sGruj is offline
BANNED

 

Reputation:
Sum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselvesSum1sGruj is making a name for themselves
April 14th, 2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
I may be hard of hearing
but
I still hate it when they shout
In all my convictions I have stated on here, I don't make much use of the large font.
Too obnoxious & unnecessary. Better for 'billboard' posts



   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright ©1997-2012 TheologyOnLine

Logos Bible Study Software Up to 15% OFF FOR THEOLOGYONLINE MEMBERS! Study twice, post once.
Logos Bible Software —take your Bible study to the next level.